[Highlight] Josh Hart setting a unique screen by extending his base as much as possible. The screen was ruled legal by NBA refs after coaches challenge
its really fun to see your team get called for 5 illegal screens in the first quarter of a postseason game and watch other teams get to do this shit
Adam Silver’s NBA
The only flopping tech I’ve seen this season was on DG for selling an obvious foul. I couldn’t even come close to counting how many flops I’ve seen watching game around the association this week. Hell there were like 8 super obvious ones on the raptors (and then their fans were saying Dennis Schroeder flopped when he caught an elbow to the head on AJ offensive foul)
I mean….it’s interesting to complain reffing when your star player didn’t get thrown out for a flagrant foul that directly resulted in the opposing team losing their best player, the game, and an opportunity to compete in the post season.
if youre saying the refereeing we got in the second game was a retaliatory response from the referees to the flack they got for the first game then I don’t disagree at all my dude
if thats not what youre saying then its an irrelevant comment because you’re talking about something refs missed on accident versus things that they are consciously choosing to do which is more what im concerned with
Hush child
Screens aren’t supposed to have feet more than shoulder width apart
And the thumbs out
Hart’s thumb goes where now?
Nothing in the NBA rule book supports your contention.
Section X—Screen A screen is the legal action of a player who, without causing undue contact, delays or prevents an opponent from reaching a desired position. Section III—By Screening A player who sets a screen shall not (1) assume a position nearer than a normal step from an opponent, if that opponent is stationary and unaware of the screener’s position, or make illegal contact with an opponent when he assumes a position at the side or front of an opponent, or (3) assume a position so near to a moving opponent that he is not given an opportunity to avoid contact before making illegal contact, or (4) move laterally or toward an opponent being screened, after having assumed a legal position. The screener may move in the same direction and path of the opponent being screened. In (3) above, the speed of the opponent being screened will determine what the screener’s stationary position may be. This position will vary and may be one to two normal steps or strides from his opponent. 3. Screening When a player screens in front of or at the side of a stationary opponent, he may be as close as he desires providing he does not make contact. His opponent can see him and, there- fore, is expected to detour around the screen. If he screens behind a stationary opponent, the opponent must be able to take a normal step backward without contact. Because the opponent is not expected to see a screener behind him, the player screened is given latitude of movement. The defender must be given an opportunity to change direction and avoid contact with the screener. To screen a moving opponent, the player must stop soon enough to permit his opponent the opportunity to avoid contact. The distance between the player screening and his opponent will depend upon the speed at which the players are moving. If two opponents are moving in the same direction and path, the player who is behind is responsible for contact. The player in front may stop or slow his pace, but he may not move backward or sideward into his opponent. The player in front may or may not have the ball. This situation assumes the two players have been moving in identically the same direction and path before contact.
Section X—Screen
A screen is the legal action of a player who, without causing undue contact, delays or prevents an opponent from reaching a desired position.
Section III—By Screening
A player who sets a screen shall not (1) assume a position nearer than a normal step from an opponent, if that opponent is stationary and unaware of the screener’s position, or make illegal contact with an opponent when he assumes a position at the side or front of an opponent, or (3) assume a position so near to a moving opponent that he is not given an opportunity to avoid contact before making illegal contact, or (4) move laterally or toward an opponent being screened, after having assumed a legal position. The screener may move in the same direction and path of the opponent being screened.
In (3) above, the speed of the opponent being screened will determine what the screener’s stationary position may be. This position will vary and may be one to two normal steps or strides from his opponent.
3. Screening
When a player screens in front of or at the side of a stationary opponent, he may be as close as he desires providing he does not make contact. His opponent can see him and, there- fore, is expected to detour around the screen.
If he screens behind a stationary opponent, the opponent must be able to take a normal step backward without contact. Because the opponent is not expected to see a screener behind him, the player screened is given latitude of movement. The defender must be given an opportunity to change direction and avoid contact with the screener.
To screen a moving opponent, the player must stop soon enough to permit his opponent the opportunity to avoid contact. The distance between the player screening and his opponent will depend upon the speed at which the players are moving.
If two opponents are moving in the same direction and path, the player who is behind is responsible for contact. The player in front may stop or slow his pace, but he may not move backward or sideward into his opponent. The player in front may or may not have the ball. This situation assumes the two players have been moving in identically the same direction and path before contact.
The issue lies in “normal step.” The screener cannot be closer to the opponent than a “normal step.” When Hart sets his screen, the opponent must be able to take a “normal step” back to avoid the contact. Hart’s base is so wide that that’d be impossible.
Watch the clip, and you will discover that Hart’s screen is set to the defender’s side, not behind him – which invalidates your claim.
“When a player screens in front of or at the side of a stationary opponent, he may be as close as he desires providing he does not make contact. His opponent can see him and, there- fore, is expected to detour around the screen.” is the relevant clause.
Even taking your post at face value, it’s an illegal screen. But also, https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/illegal-screen-pickn-roll-screener-has-legs-extended-outside-shoulder-width/
Even taking your post at face value, it’s an illegal screen.
No, it isn’t, because no rule prohibits Hart’s action on this play.
But also, https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/illegal-screen-pickn-roll-screener-has-legs-extended-outside-shoulder-width/
That’s not the rule book, that’s a bunch of inconsistent and largely nonsensical videos.
Now, if you want to have a conversation about the fact that NBA officials don’t know, and don’t enforce, the rules of the game, I will not argue against that claim at all. But there is no rule in the NBA rule book that prohibits the screen that Hart set on this play.
I love that bro just completely ignored you citing the actual NBA rulebook lol. Classic redditor
When measuring the girth of a screen, you should include the circumference of the ball
Some men are wider than others
Is that in the rule book anywhere or just what you are taught as basketball players?
So it’s not in the written rulebook, but it is in their video rulebook here: https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/illegal-screen-pickn-roll-screener-has-legs-extended-outside-shoulder-width/
It’s technique. Trips are illegal and a wide base leads to tripping fouls. Just getting wide and taking it right up the gut, like Josh Hart does, is fine.
So it’s a technique thing to avoid tripping fouls, not a rule in and of itself.
Wouldn’t this make you more likely to take tripping fouls?
Yeah in my opinion this should have been called a trip as illogical as it seems. This form made it impossible for the defender to navigate around the screen.
I think it would have been called a trip if he made an attempt to go around the screen
I totally agree, but I think it would have been dangerous to even try to. I am disinclined to force the trip to actually happen if it was unavoidable except to go through the chest of the screener.
what kind of question is that
Yep nothing in the rulebook about this; probably gets addressed at in the future
A player shall not hold, push, charge into, impede the progress of an opponent by extending a hand, arm, leg or knee or by bending the body into a position that is not normal. Contact that results in the re-routing of an opponent is a foul which must be called immediately.
Seems like this line from the rule book applies
I think the non-call was based on the fact that no contact was made with the legs. If defender tripped over Hart’s leg, it should and would have been a foul.
The toughest part of officiating screens is that it’s only a violation if contact is made. So if the screener flips the screen and never legally sets, but the defender avoids the screen entirely, it’s not a violation.
Wrong section. You quoted Section I, while Section III describes legal screening.
That’s true, but it’s not a foul unless the extra width actually impedes the defender.
Which doesn’t make sense because there’s nowhere to put your legs if the screener is occupying the space where you would put yours if you try to go around it in either direction. This is a dangerous play and shouldn’t be rewarded.
Which doesn’t make sense because there’s nowhere to put your legs if the screener is occupying the space where you would put yours if you try to go around it in either direction.
It’s the same thing with moving screens. The screener can slide back and forth blocking your path, but it’s only a foul if you try to go through him.
That one is annoying. Smart players are just intentionally running into the moving screens now.
Why the downvotes for correctly identifying the rule?
Something no one talks about is the sheer volume of illegal screens in the NBA every game. There were like ten missed illegal screens on the Knicks last night.
A lot of people talk about it on here but it’s just not something that the NBA seems to care that much about because it benefits the offense.
I saw KAT like full arm block NAW at one point and push him off his spot lol
One of those stupid situations where putting your face in the way of the other team gets you a foul. Always weird outcomes.
I hate that they give that to the defender every time. Don’t get me wrong, offense has so many advantages in today’s game, but it’s like they completely ignore this one in speed, quickness, balance and rhythm.
Brown elbowed Oubre in Game 1 Sunday because Oubre was practically straddling his leg and his face was directly in front of his chest.
Hold a basketball above or at your head and tell me how you’re supposed to move your arms without the ball or your elbows reaching in front of your torso.
It happens in completely normal shooting motions too.
Guarding with your face is just the new way to take a charge. Instead of sliding under a guy going up at the last second with no way to stop, you just put your face in his space and he has no way to move.
I think if defenders got calls without using their face they’d stop using their face lol
Good example of this in the Cavs - Raptors game last night… Mitchell does his windmill gather to switch the ball to his other side to get a layup. Mamu does the same but Schroeder’s face was sticking too far into Mamu’s space and got clipped by an elbow. Mamu got an offensive foul for it. Guess sacrificing your face is as good as taking a charge.
Mitchell does the windmill gather and doesn’t create contact with it
Dennis was set and Mamu literally just decked him with an elbow to the face. Dennis wasn’t sticking into his space he was standing in front of him and mamu didn’t try to go over him, he fumbled the ball and tried to go through him. Those are 2 completely different thing and it was called correctly
Tbh as funny as this one was to look at, I definitely was more frustrated with the consecutive illegal screen from KAT sticking his ass out to clear NAW for Brunson to get that 3 near the end of the game
Hilarious that Hart was doing the splits while setting the screen. Would have been an illegal screen if Dyson had tried to go around it and caught a leg, but just extending your legs isn’t illegal if they don’t impede the defender.
Hart must be trying to make the postseason version of this list.
Yeah, this looks silly, but it’s only illegal if the illegal base is what impedes the defender.
has ATL been getting a fair whistle? i havent seen the games
has ATL been getting a fair whistle?
on defense no
Daniels gets away with hand checking all game, give me a break. The whistle is fine both ways
I can find multiple calls that both teams benefited from throughout the game.
Daniels gets away with hand checking all game
can you show me? because I can show you the screens I thought were illegal including the admitting of a noncalled offensive foul on KAT which led to a Brunson 3 from the league 2 minute report
Mfer please
just set a legal screen dog.
NBA report: there were two officiating errors in the final ten seconds of last night’s Hawks-Knicks game, both benefiting the Knicks:
KAT had an uncalled illegal screen on the Brunson 3pt FG to make it 107-106.
Bridges had an uncalled lane violation on a McCollum missed FT.
A lane violation? They never call those you baby. Yall won and you’re still fishing for evidence 😆😆
Reading comprehension’s not your strong suit is it?
Pray tell
Im just sharing the official 2 minute report
You just shared the report after I disagreed with you…
this should not have been knicks ball. a legal screen must have a base set within a player’s natural cylinder, ie not their fucking wingspan. when he did a split, the refs should have called it an offensvie foul as soon as contact was made
hart’s knees are so far from shoulder width bruh. im from NY and he just look so goofy
Ya I get this, I ask because the Knicks have been getting some pretty favorable calls this season when I watched them, just wondering if it carried over
Generally yes, the FT discrepancy has not been absurd in my opinion when you consider the fact that Hawks purposely gave up 5 free throws in the first game by hacking Robinson and getting a technical foul.
They also played more physically in G2 than G1.
I agree with you on shooting fouls. I think the calls have been fairly even.
The moving screens that AREN’T being call on the Knicks have been absolutely egregious though.
outside of the screens, it is what it is but Knicks def setting A lot of questionable screens.
welcome to playoff basketball
Sure. However, remind me which coach was complaining about officiating.
Also
Goofy
This is gonna be dangerous to do now that defenders know they have to run into the legs to get a foul there. Having someone run into your legs with em extended and planted like that is asking for a knee injury.
yeah MCL strains and meniscus damage and all the bad things from lateral external loading of the knee
Ngl refs have been sus in almost every game I’ve seen at msg this year. But to be honest considering all the games in general these playoffs, maybe refs just suck ass in general.
Looks like Dennis Reynolds when he’s trying to show off his mobility in cutoff shorts.
While Wemby gets called for an offensive foul late last game setting a text book screen by standing still with both his hands at his crotch and not moving his feet at all…..
nba not respecting their own establish screening rules (ie feet cannot be set farther apart than shoulder length) has nothing to do with this play, the contact is with his chest so the legs stance is irrelevant here
as a cavs fan, josh hart is such a great nba player. effective in every way
One awkward hit & his groin is turning into string cheese
Hart definitely buys jeans and then cuts them off. He doesn’t mess with jean shorts
He’s going to tear his hip
if daniels (?) had tripped over hart’s leg, it would have been an illegal screen. that’s how sith lord dort exposes illegal screens, and gets the morons howling about flopping.
CRAB PEOPLE CRAB PEOPLE CRAB PEOPLE 🦀 🦀 🦀
they say everything evolves into crabs, so this is just the game evolving?
The evidence just keeps piling up
great now my ig feed gonna be all “this is nba legal!?!?!” “we’ll show you the hart screen!”
Welcome to nba OP, illegal screens have been part of the game for over a decade. Please try and keep up
The hip checking in screens this year is also not called
This is a classic letter of the law vs actual game flow nuance. Hart definitely had wide base but he didn’t move into the path of Dyson, so the refs basically let it slide. It’s technically illegal but is usually goes uncalled or hand-waved upon review as incidental contact.
Buddies gonna fuck his knee up doing stupid shit like that
This is one where I genuinely don’t know the rules, cause his legs were way too wide but the defender just ran right into his chest which isn’t allowed
most screens are illegal due to wide stance. a player has to be impeded by that wide stance in order for it to be called.
that’s why dort “flops” over screens.. all he’s doing is showing that it’s an illegal screen, because if it weren’t an illegal screen he couldn’t have puled off that “flop”.
You’re reading it correctly, just like the refs did. Defending players need to start playing smarter, you need to sell it just like on offense. Trip over that leg if it’s an illegal screen, make the refs call the trip or you can complain for the next one.
Exactly - it’s not illegal if it doesn’t impede the defender. The contact happened before that was a possibility.
That is not what they ruled. They ruled the first initial illegal contact was Dyson forearm hitting Hart. It was the right call, this not a great angle to see but Dyson first hits with the forearm then there is illegal contact down low.
Didn’t gabe vincent just defensive line bridges on in the 3rd or 4th quarter?
Idr maybe I saw it wrong.
You’re whack putting this after a W though…
Hart got shoved, good call
Yea i dont see the problem with this one, if Hart’s legs got in the way that’s one thing, but the contact was all chest
The reason Hart tipped over is because he is halfway to a split, and can fall by slight touch in that position
I’d call it a trip regardless of whether there was actual leg contact if I was a ref. I’d let someone get mad and say it wasn’t because it is an unnecessary dangerous play. The defender should be able to navigate around a screen without getting tripped and it was impossible in this case.
That look like a slight touch?