That’s why I never bought the “he’s gonna ditch the Cavs for the Knicks first chance he gets” narrative. He’s just been a professional his whole career.

What a second year of college does to a mf

I have loved him since he dominated the summer league and then the league as a rookie out of nowhere.

I’m a big fan of him in general tbh 

I remember like a year or two ago he said he’s the 13th best player in the league and I was astounded cause in most cases even the 50th best player will at least say they’re top 5 lol. Very cool, humble guy

Cavs fans have been really blessed the last 20 years. We went from watching LeBron James every night to Kyrie to LeBron & Kyrie, to Donovan. He’s the reason I watch almost every Cavs game because the dude deserves it 

Except what he said about his drumming

I’ll never forget watching Mitchell have to hold back Quin Snyder from losing his mind at the refs. Even as a rookie I can barely remember a single time where he yelled at a ref or acted out. He’s just been super level headed his whole time in the league.

He was like that from day 1 at Louisville. Always been a great dude

He’s very likable.

As a Jazz fan I’ll always love him, class act, never talked bad about his teammates or the team.

If CP didn’t get hurt, they would have won. That run changed a lot of legacies.

He definitely wins a ring if CP3 didn’t get hurt smh

Facing the greatest team of all time was the problem

i think he couldn’t possibly do more, he just played against better teams. had a real chance to beat KD warriors but CP3 got injured.

He doesn’t get enough credit for nearly bringing down the 2018 warriors.

Not a demon but Nazis were probably only one rung above

Demon to the game of basketball. Laid the foundation for the floppers NBA

I hate that man. He and Brady are the two athletes I hated to see win the most.

Absolutely. One of the most skilled guards ever. And his longevity is pretty underrated.

Prime Harden was incredibly elite, but the hindsight is going to be wrong. He was an egregious flopper who pushed the rules to where they are today. That’s a reality, not some momentary narrative that should be forgotten to time (but I do love old Harden he’s a fun watch)

Wade has 3 rings and one of the most dominant finals ever and even he gets forgotten sometimes.

We are. As less and less people are around who were there to actually watch him play, it will become an argument of stats. Jordan is probably the only player in NBA history that had GOAT pressure before he won his first ring, and THEN won all the rings afterwards. Honestly I feel like he set the standard that we see today, and lowkey for good reason.

I dunno I feel like “Karl Malone of guards” take is going to stick

He was a Uber durable, highly efficient scorer who put up jaw dropping numbers for 2 decades but shrank in the biggest moments of their careers

One point that Karl has over Harden is how he remained loyal to one franchise forever while Harden hit the destruct button at a moments notice

Harden on the other hand isn’t a

Never was a fan of the foul baiting, but history will probably look favorably on him. He was one of the best walking buckets in the league and even on the Nets he was the best player of the 3.

Yes he choked many a series away, but the fact that he took the greatest team of all time to 7 is a plus in my book.

Memeing on his defense aside, in his prime he was probably one of 3 guys I’d pick if I absolutely needed a bucket. Like maybe just second to LeBron. He was just as smooth as KD, but he was/is a much better passer/floor general. I’d rather have KD (or Steph) taking the shot, but if I need someone to create a bucket he’s really only second to one during his time in the league. 

I feel like Barkley pretty solidly holds the “best player to never win a chip” title and I see Harden taking that from him.

Future folks look at stats and don’t recall the flops and the horrid play style it led to so of course they’ll look back at him fondly.

people were starting to discuss MJ maybe being the GOAT before he even won a title

and then he was just straight up being referred to as the GOAT as early as like ‘92 after he won one

all while Kareem still had 6

so yeah it’s definitely changed and stuff like that probably won’t happen again anytime soon

I’d say it was at its peak in the early 2010s every narrative was about LeBron not having a ring than KD resulting in him going to GS

Big O and Wilt were often considered top 3 players by media rankings until mid 2000s. Neither won that much compared to Bill, Kareem Magic.

The greatest shift in ring narrative was when Kobe won his fourth, all of a sudden I saw all these people come out and say Kobe needs to win 6 if he wants to be considered top be as good as MJ. At the same time, LeBron didn’t win in 09 and the media went on to make fun of him for being a king with no ring. To me, that is when rings culture became a much bigger thing.

Lowkey i think Kobe and Shaq created that. Then media with Lebron took it up a notch

Yeah like I know people can see it as a negative, but the goal is to win. I’d rather have a star with worse numbers that helps winning than a star with amazing numbers who never wins.

Hard and CP3 will always have that 2019 series though. You put them in the Raptors situation where they’re facing Warriors w/ no Klay & KD for most of it, you bet they’re winning

Larry Bird called Michael Jordan the greatest player to ever live before he won a single ring

“Best,” said Bird. “Never seen anyone like him. Unlike anyone I`ve ever seen. Phenomenal. One of a kind.”

“One of a kind,” he repeated. “Thats what I mean about the league. With guys like him coming in from college year after year, we just cant help but get a better image, better crowds, better TV ratings. Hes the best. Ever.”

This is from 1985. MJs rookie season.

No, but I think it’s gotten worse.

I don’t get what’s so bad with “ring culture”. Great players are still appreciated and respected. The most important thing in basketball is winning. A ring absolutely cements one’s greatness. Harden is obviously an all time great and people give him his flowers for being unstoppable in the late 2010s but if he won a ring his legacy would be on a whole other level. Obviously you don’t judge a player’s skill by the amount of championships they’ve won but I think anyone that doesn’t do anything in their ability to win a championship is stupid (unless you can get a bag to stay with a team of bums)

Always in my basketball fanhood as a 35y.o. 

Shaq rapped “Kobe can’t do it without me”

Maybe during the Bill Russell era? Because I mean, what would be the point? He had them all…

I kinda wish stuff like winning the conference finals or winning your division in the NBA was treated the same as their NFL,MLB, etc equivalents by fans.

Not that there isnt “ring culture” in other sports, but it feels like stuff like that is a bit more revered in other leagues.

No, it has always been about winning.

People just call winning “ring culture” now as a way to dismiss the importance of winning and how it impacts legacy.

Wilt is one of the best ever and I know at the time he got criticized for not being a winner but until I looked into it I had assumed he won more like 4-5 rings

I think fast paced media has definitely increased ring culture narratives

Yes, rings really weren’t a dominant part of the conversation until MJ showed up, it kept him behind Magic and Bird at first and then was used to “lock” him in as the goat after he retired (the turn of the century was also just long enough for dumb young fans to start claiming Russell’s rings in the 60s didn’t count).

Its possible to have a greater appreciation for the players that did it without referring to the ones that didnt as “chokers”  “perennial losers” “glorified floppers that cant win” etc.

Thats the problem Spidah is speaking on.

Right, but luck is a factor.

It’s also one of the things that is a team effort, not an individual effort. No individual wins a ring on their own.

The Harden discourse is mostly centered around him not playing well in big moments. Not the resume, but Lillard and Westbrook dont hear it as much as he will.

I agree, there’s no need to look any deeper than team championships when evaluating individual players.

You haven’t met my 50 year old friend who hasn’t watched basketball since 1998, buddy.

Yeah like if Jokic can be in top 5 all time convos with 1 ring and 1 FMVP you better put Steph in there too

That’s just initial noise or as they say, a new sucker born everyday.

Every couple of years there is one player taking off faster than the others and racking stats that compares to a handful of legends.

Then the new fanbase will swear they are seeing history in the making for every hot minutes coming after.

Posts like these are a dime a dozen every offseason.

Jerry West too and I think Harden rounds out the top 5

Agreed with your first part, but majority of Harden’s prime was in the West of the 2010s which hosted 95% of the stars in the league. Put him in the East during those years and we might have seen more finals appearances. Sure he lost in the West, but it was to players that I’d argue are better, Steph, KD, etc.

Money

Has anyone told the Pels that?