drippinswagu69 | LAL

132 | 5 hours ago

Joe Dumars has died on so many hills you might as well give him a mountain at this point

ragtime_sam | Bullets

6 | an hour ago

He’s so nakedly stupid. He reminds me of former Wizards GM Ernie Grunfeld. Just like how did these guys pass the baseline competency test to get hired

PlayInChampions | Timberwolves

132 | 5 hours ago

Brown and Tatum, despite having a similar skillset, both play defense and shoot 3s, which makes them useful even without the ball. Both Zion and Queen can’t shoot and are below average defenders.

Neat_Plankton6660 | Celtics

53 | 5 hours ago

Tatum and Brown score in completely different ways for the most part too

Luciolover345 | Thunder

40 | 4 hours ago

Which is weird because you’d expect the 6’9 physical specimen SF/PF to be the one slashing to the rim at every chance and the 6’6 SG to be the volume 3 point scorer, but it’s flipped.

Neat_Plankton6660 | Celtics

25 | 4 hours ago

True but Jaylen is an athletic freak whereas Tatum is average at best in that regard. Tatum was always a more finesse type player where Jaylen is brute force. When Jaylen is at his absolute best, he scores the ball like a mini LeBron (Strictly talking scoring here).

needcalculatorubc

15 | 3 hours ago

Ok but has jaylen brown ever dunked in a suit of armor?

METALFISTERRORIST

5 | 3 hours ago

That’s what I see every single time

DuckieTheDuckie | Warriors

6 | 3 hours ago

Tatum is significantly above average for his height. I mean he’s fringe all defense

randotd152

9 | 3 hours ago

Eh - the best slashers in NBA history tend to be SG’s. Jordan, Kobe, Wade, Drexler…

It’s the athleticism and body control that most benefits attacking the rim. Length is good too, and it’s not like Tatum sucks at attacking the hoop. But it’s not surprising that an athletic freak like JB is better inside - and Jaylen is pretty big himself too.

All of that said, they are both good 3-level scorers. Tatum’s career range attempt percentage splits are 40/20/40 short/mid/3. Brown’s is 45/20/35.

Bobbith_The_Chosen | POR

1 | 2 hours ago

I mean if you’re looking at just their height maybe that would be surprising.

Luciolover345 | Thunder

2 | 2 hours ago

Asides from a slow first step Tatum is incredible athletic. That’s the main thing Brown has over him 🤷‍♂️.

Bobbith_The_Chosen | POR

1 | 2 hours ago

Also the main thing that helps you get to the rim. Tatum’s draft comp was Paul Pierce/Melo, Brown was always projected as an athletic 2-way guy. The real surprise was Brown developing into such a versatile offensive player

No-Dragonfruit9719

1 | an hour ago

That’s cause body type and how they were trained early on in thier development especially high school they adapted to those traits.

Jt came into the league at 210 Jb was already 225 rookie yr

Jt heaviest he mentioned during the end of the championship run was 228

Jb heaviest and I feel was a catalyst to his menicus injury was 250.

He slimed down to 240(the ray collab stream they did measurable in jan).

I feel ironically both are gonna have the same type game once they get older maybe tayum becomes a pick n pop type pf if he get a little better shooting 3s but I feel both jt and jb still going to operate as a bully ball midrange guy well into thier 30s.

ndtp124 | Grizzlies

4 | 3 hours ago

Yeah everyone wants wings who can shoot 3s and defend. They have a lot more going for them than just that, but it means they work together well because they do a lot of things a team just needs to win.

Teckliz | Lakers

1 | an hour ago

Zion can shoot he just chooses not to

SpiritFantastic4835 | Lakers

103 | 5 hours ago

Both terrible 3 point shooters who don’t play defense = Tatum and brown apparently

jgman22 | Pelicans

20 | 5 hours ago

When zion is engaged on defense he’s pretty good

[deleted]

17 | 4 hours ago

[deleted]

jgman22 | Pelicans

7 | 4 hours ago

That’s just not true

[deleted]

-4 | 4 hours ago

[deleted]

SpicyMustard34 | Cavaliers

4 | 3 hours ago

no it really isn’t. there’s a lot of bbiq and physicality that you can’t just do because you’re putting in effort.

Ilikesporks_ | Lakers

5 | 4 hours ago

that’s not true tho. reaves does put in effort on defense but he’s still a bad defender

mrb4 | Suns

3 | 4 hours ago

point being, you can be good at defense and still suck at it if you don’t try.

Electronic_Pea_4845 | Iran

2 | 4 hours ago

I thought reeves was a dawg or at least had dawgs in him tho???

huey88 | Nets

3 | 3 hours ago

I have dawg in me. I’m still terrible at basketball and short

Electronic_Pea_4845 | Iran

1 | 3 hours ago

I DGAF

ASK_ABT_MY_USERNAME | Warriors

1 | 4 hours ago

Real scrappy tho

OddIndustry6073

3 | 4 hours ago

That’s reductive

PhalanX4012 | Raptors

1 | an hour ago

When

OddIndustry6073

-1 | 4 hours ago

Zion can be a good defender

Bobbith_The_Chosen | POR

2 | 2 hours ago

Yea wasn’t Brown drafted as a mediocre shooter and Tatum a mediocre defender? Things change

onefootback | Raptors

4 | 2 hours ago

it’s been 7 years when is it supposed to change

Bobbith_The_Chosen | POR

1 | an hour ago

Zion is a decent defender, his biggest issue is obviously availability. Queen has plenty of time to develop his offense

onefootback | Raptors

2 | an hour ago

zion’s defence is more bad than decent, there’s always hope for queen though

OddIndustry6073

1 | 35 minutes ago

Have you watched the pelicans this season?

onefootback | Raptors

1 | 29 minutes ago

enough times, why?

mkpanq | Heat

33 | 5 hours ago

I think people said this based on Zion availability not the gameplan

bigbodydenver | Nuggets

21 | 4 hours ago

No theres a lot of overlap with queen and zion.

Creative downhill PFs with defensive flaws

Queen is dynamic and has huge potential but its awkward fit with zion

mkpanq | Heat

1 | 26 minutes ago

Yup, hard not to agree

ostrow19 | Knicks

8 | 4 hours ago

No they said this because they’re both position locked 4s who are best with the ball in their hands, can’t shoot from outside, and aren’t rim protectors.

I genuinely don’t understand how you play these 2 together in the modern nba, they just don’t fit

Kertia

12 | 5 hours ago

Undersized non shooting bigs who don’t play defense. As non pelicans fan y’all should hope they play together a lot.

MddlingAges | Knicks

1 | an hour ago

Future Heat bigs for Spo to remake.

Nbuuifx14 | Heat

11 | 5 hours ago

Brown and Tatum can work together despite their similar playstyles because their playstyles are both extremely complementary to everyone else’s. There will be the occasional isos but by and large good defenders who are good shooters can coexist with others very very well. Although the Celtics could still imo use a proper point guard but that hasn’t been a big limitation for them.

Two front court players with bad defense and limited shooting ability at best is, on the other hand, not a recipe for success under any circumstance in the modern NBA.

DistributionOk9687

9 | 5 hours ago

it’s totally different, zion and queen can’t shoot, can’t defend in spaces

Ok_Possible_5702

7 | 5 hours ago

He’s right. Zion and Queen obviously can play together, all they need is a coach that will be brave enough to do the right thing and put them on the court.

Now, can they win together? No. But that was not the question.

archerarcher0 | Celtics

4 | 5 hours ago

Why would anyone say Dumars and IT couldn’t play together…?

Also Tatum and brown had a lot of overlap, but at the end of the day they were both defensive all around scoring wings… it’s not like you’re leaving yourself at a disadvantage by playing two of those guys it was more about if you could win a chip with them as your best two players.. Zion and queen are both bad defensive tweener 4/5s

AnotherStatsGuy | Pelicans

1 | 40 minutes ago

Maybe it was Adrian Dantley.

AroundNdowN | Pistons

6 | 4 hours ago

I swear he said this exact thing about Greg Monroe, Josh Smith and Andre Drummond

SadPels | Pelicans

6 | 5 hours ago

I mean it’s not like he’s going to say “these two guys were total ass playing next to each other”. This isn’t a wrong thing to say.

Hovi_Bryant | Pistons

3 | 4 hours ago

People said Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva couldn’t play together as well.

PAWGle_the_lesser | Raptors

3 | 5 hours ago

They probably just mean that they literally cannot play together due to Zion’s injuries or DNP - Fat

PaKyuBai

2 | 5 hours ago

You can tell Joe hasn’t watched his team play this season

Ill_Tough_364

2 | 3 hours ago

Lmfao!

Just fire this bozo already. Trading a 1st round pick unprotected in one of the most elite drafts then comparing Queen and Zion to TWO championship duos?

AnotherStatsGuy | Pelicans

2 | 39 minutes ago

Executive thinks two players on roster can play together on court. More at 11.

But in all honesty, Zion does need to spend his summer developing a jumper. He doesn’t have to start chucking from deep, but being able to hit from FT distance would still go a long way for spacing.

LindseyCorporation | Thunder

1 | 5 hours ago

Those other criticisms were for offensive reasons. The Zion/Queen pairing is not good defensively at the bigs.

DHiggsBoson | Mavericks

1 | 4 hours ago

Does this mean starting Kevon Looney was NOT the long-term plan?!?!?!

MainAd2728 | Washington Bullets

1 | 4 hours ago

Zion and Queen would be a great duo in 2005

thesonicvision

1 | 4 hours ago

Dumars has a point. We’re not clairvoyant.

And no matter how logical and evidence-based you may be, and no matter how well you can speculate based on mathemtical models or qualitative reasoning, it’s impossible to predict which players will grow/adapt/change and to what extent.

Might work, might not.

not-a-potato-head | Hawks

1 | 8 minutes ago

True, but since we lack clairvoyance that’s our best option to make good decisions. Going with vibes based decision making can work if you hit a hot streak of luck (Dumars’ early time in Detroit) but in the long run it’s going to end up worse than more analytical based decision making (Dumars’ later time in Detroit).

You can’t purely rely on being lucky in order to have a functional team

Skxawng_3600

1 | 4 hours ago

People said me and Isiah couldn’t play together

Did they though?

BonoBeats

1 | 3 hours ago

Neither of those examples he cited are bigs with limited range.

Constant_Hearing1048

1 | 3 hours ago

People also had doubts about Kyrie and Luka

Aeschylus101 | Pelicans

1 | an hour ago

I think I preferred it when Dumars didn’t meet with the media or do any interviews.

Iwentoofar

1 | 39 minutes ago

both of these guys can really only play PF

rocket_beer | Celtics

1 | 28 minutes ago

Mark my words, when Zion retires from basketball, he will be 400 lbs

I_am_darkness | BOS

1 | 20 minutes ago

I’m old enough to remember that nobody said joe dumars and isiah couldn’t play together.

Ok_Translator4447 | Knicks

0 | 5 hours ago

And I would agree. DQ has elite court vision. Zion has to start knocking down shots to space the floor BUT, him driving to the lane causes all types of problems for other teams. Either drop off to DQ in the post, or DQ can pop out and hit a shot. It’s really about the right system.

FullAutoLuxPosadism | Supersonics

0 | 4 hours ago

The game has evolved in the last 36 years, Joe. You actually need spacing.

EssentIYO | Magic

-3 | 5 hours ago

I really hate the “can’t play together” narratives people use. It’s basketball, not performing surgery… figure it out.

candry_shop | Suns

5 | 5 hours ago

Thing don’t have to be as complex as surgery for synergies to matter

Bully_Maguire420 | Hawks

1 | 4 hours ago

Sometimes players just don’t mesh, Westbrook/LeBron, Trae/Dejounte, Kobe/Dwight etc.

Randvek | Trail Blazers

-2 | 5 hours ago

The problem with Tatum and Brown was always going to be salary-related, not play-style. And that’s still an issue that plagues the team. Big credit to Brad Stevens for navigating that.

Clear_Measurement502

8 | 5 hours ago

Nah, they had a lot of negative commentary early on, especially locally

jgman22 | Pelicans

-4 | 5 hours ago

Yall just like to hate

ObiwanSchrute | Pistons

7 | 5 hours ago

Ive seen Dumars and Weavers work they are both terrible GMs

jgman22 | Pelicans

0 | 4 hours ago

Oh I know, they are ass. Should never have gotten another job as GM. People here still just love to hate

ObiwanSchrute | Pistons

1 | 4 hours ago

I just feel bad for you guys because we know how bad they were

jgman22 | Pelicans

3 | 4 hours ago

Dude’s first two moves were to just give away two lottery picks. Disgusting.

lethalizered | Thunder

1 | 4 hours ago

I don’t really like to hate, but Dumars just makes it too easy to hate him.

Small market teams especially, deserve better management than this.

I’m just waiting for the Ollie hire at this point because Troy has been in love with him forever, and if he’s dead set on going for him, Dumars won’t stop him.

Penguinho

-4 | 3 hours ago

No one ever said the Jays or Joe and Isiah couldn’t play together. I do not believe that happened.

Joe Dumars on people saying Zion and Queen couldn’t play together: People said me and Isiah couldn’t play together and that Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum couldn’t as well