Paul Pierce on what would’ve happened if he and LeBron swapped teams in 2008: “If I was a Cavalier and Bron was on the Celtics, we probably wouldn’t make the playoffs. I’d have been cringing passing to them. At least Bron had confidence in them.”
Imagine Bron with DPOY KG young Rondo and Rays spacing lmao they might win 74 games
The defense would have been biblical.
The 2008-2010 win totals would have been genuinely disgusting. LeBron and KG on defense is unfair.
People got so used to Lakers LeBron they forgot he was 5x All defense first team when he was younger lol.
Should have been DPOY in 2012 2013.
The Tyson Chandler year? As far as I remember there was some debate between Chandler and Ibaka but LeBron wasn’t really in the conversation that year. Are you talking about 2013 when Gasol got it over Bron?
Yup, it was indeed 2013, been a minute :)
Didn’t Gasol not even make first team all defense the year he won? It makes no sense
One was voted by coaches the other by media and that in lies the problem
Therein not that in fool
Gasol only made the second team too because there was a tie for first. He finished third for centers in that vote that year
I’d go with 2013 over Gasol
This was also when rondo was all-nba level defense too. Plus Tony Allen off the bench.
Oops, All Defense
Dont forget Tony Allen and young Rondo as point of attack defender. Teams would have trouble reaching 70
Jaden Ivey approved
Biblical as in the Quran though
Which one tells you that the gays proclaimed nba pride nights?
They would’ve PROCLAIMED it
Imagine you somehow got around Rondo and then you’ve got KG, LeBron, and Perk to try to finish over in the paint 😭
He didn’t even mention the woudlve been best defender on the team, tony allen. And for that era against guys like dwight and bynum, Perk was super valuable on that end too.
And for that era against guys like dwight and bynum, Perk was super valuable on that end too.
This is probably the biggest underrated reason why this team/defense would have been absurd. It’s not that Perk was incredible, but he was more than solid enough as an interior defender in that era that it would have left the two-man Lebron/KG duo free to roam/help with cartoonish athleticism/length/iq.
Then throw in actual ++ defenders like Rondo, Tony Allen, and oh man.
They’d still have Doc though
Nah fam, that’s coach Bron’s team.
Doc would be a passenger on that whole ride.
Now, giving Thibs a prime bron with the rest of the squad. Hot damn I’d love to see what circles of hell he would be putting teams into with those demons.
It’s kinda wild but 08 Bron is not prime Bron. I believe that honor goes to 2012-2013 Heatles Bron. He was simply an athletic nightmare in 08
I think 2015-2017 is basketball prime LeBron. Physical prime is definitely Heatles. But I know 2018 Bron would have loved to have 2012 Bron’s strength lol.
I like how they’re all a little different too. Like second Cavs stint is way better from deep, feels like a more advanced playmaker, better jumper etc
That’s prime Bron to me - jr Smith meme Bron
when he carried the cavs to the finals and almost won game 1 basically by himself if jr Smith and George Hill didn’t sell the game away
Yeah Bron legitimately has four “primes” from his four different tenures with teams. Early MVP Bron with the Cavs was his fastest, Heatles was his strongest, second Cavs was his most skilled, and 2020 Lakers Bron was his cerebral chess master peak
Physical prime is 2009 and 2010, people do this Heat shit for absolutely no reason because he looked more jacked
Bro go look at 2009 Lebron dropping 40 points a game on the best defense in the NBA and Dwight Howard protecting the rim without even a jumpshot with awful spacing
He was way quicker than Heat LeBron even if he was slightly less strong, he was more explosive too because for the Heat he had multiple ankle and hamstring injuries because he put more size on
2009 Bron was definitely quicker but 2012 Bron being that big and still being one of the fastest guys in the league and jumping OVER grown men was insane. His strength was unparalleled, too. I can see an argument for 2009, for sure.
2009 LeBron jumped over even grownererer men, led a fucking shitty ass team to 66 wins being the best player in the world on both ends both playoffs and regular season
2009 is the best version of LeBron, he just had such a fucking awful team that it was pathetic and now he gets underrated because in 2013 he had a superior team
I mean, he was also a worse shooter and didn’t have as deep of a bag in 2009 than he did in 2012, and he was definitely stronger in ‘12. He may have lost a little speed, but he was still the fastest guy in transition and jumping from the free throw line, so it’s not like putting on the muscle hurt his game.
2016 Finals LeBron is my pick for greatest player of all time
I actually think Lebron is stronger now than he was when he was younger, obviously less athletic, but strength? He stonewalls Jokic in the post, immovable. I do not remember that part of his game when younger, maybe I overlooked it, but he is one year older than me and I have been watching him the whole time.
Hard to say–by BPM or on/off stat analysis, ‘08 Lebron was his career high, an insane +13.2. Not that the total dipped into his Heatle days when he was around +12.
By VORP, BPM, Win Shares, PER, 2008 Lebron was peak Lebron.
Then again, the numberes between ‘08 Lebron and ‘12 Lebron are close enough that you can certainly make an argument for 2012 based on context, aesthetics, etc.
I agree with 2008 not being his prime. I’d say he entered his prime in 2009 tho. 2009-2021 is his prime
Lebron has been in his prime since his second year in the league. We are probably talking which year is his peak.
He’s had like 3 different primes in different eras tbf
Would’ve been Coach KG and Bron assistant coach
Glenn
Hall of famer !
With doc they won 66 games that first year and a championship. One of the few teams with instant synergy.
KG & Thibs were already enough to overcome that
Doc that won the championship in 2008?
Would be an insane team, but I think young Rondo wouldn’t have a spot on it then I don’t think. He can’t shoot and the ball would be in LeBron’s hands most of the time, so Rondo’s floor general skills and finding players wouldn’t be nearly as valuable as it was. I guess he could come off of the bench, and spacing was way less important back then, but through the lens of today’s NBA, it seems like it wouldn’t go as smoothly
imagine prime lebron as a slasher with rondo passing to him. would’ve been lob city esque
“Prime LeBron” and it’s 18 years ago really puts it into perspective lol
jesus lol, i was 7 years old that celtics championship season
guess i should’ve said “first prime lebron” lmao
It’s early prime, mid prime, and late prime. Late Cavs first stint, Miami LeBron, Cavs 2nd stint and early Lakers years
Casual 15 year prime.
They had such great chemistry in the 2020 season. I can’t imagine how good it would’ve been in their prime
Yea, I’m just not sure if Lebron would buy in to doing that as much when he was in his early 20s. Who knows, but if he was happy to be a slasher, then it could be insane.
Bron has never been a solely heliocentric player that needs specific archetypes around him like Luka and Harden. Bron won two chips with D-Wade as his second option, who provided very little spacing/gravity.
Throughout his career Bron has proven that he can win with a multitude of different lineups around him. He’s won with mediocre defenders in the backcourt (Kyrie and Chalmers), he’s won with non-shooters in the backcourt (Wade and Rondo), he’s won with poor defensive bigs (Love), he’s won with non-lob threat/non-shooting bigs (Tristan Thompson), etc.
There’s quite literally no such thing as a bad fit, system, scheme, etc. around prime LeBron. He will make it work.
We think about him as heliocentric because that’s how his most memorable runs in Cleveland worked: a LeBron + shooters, no defense necessary, was basically a recipe to make the Finals for like 3 straight seasons
Yea and don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it would be a dogshit team or anything, just that it’s not his ideal team and would not be as dominant on paper as replacing a championship team PP with LeBron seems.
Wade was actually great off the ball though. Timely cuts and knew when to pick his spots on offense. That is not nearly the same thing as integrating a point guard who specialty is playmaking for others and doesn’t have nearly the same scoring ability.
Miami LeBron had to learn how to play a lot more without the ball and a lot more in the post. There was definitely growing pains with that Miami team.
12 years later they won a chip on the Lakers. Apples to oranges and two different eras and players but I still think they figure it out.
We dont win without Rondo either so you could probably assume Bron in Boston maybe wouldnt either. His rebounding was essential.
Playoff Rondo was magical
Lebron wasn’t quite as ball dominant back then and was probably the best cutter the league has ever seen. He really became the ball dominant heliocentric player in his second Cavs stint.
Bron and rondo literally won a ring together. Granted rondo was a much improved shooter but shooting wasn’t as important during that time. Boston used to play Tony Allen and rondo together so i don’t think rondo and bron would be an issue. Dwade couldn’t shoot and him and bron worked just fine.
Nah you can see exactly how they would have fit together in the 2020 playoffs. Both Rondo and LeBron have such knowledge and feel for the game that they manoeuvred their teammates into position and manipulated the opposing team to put everyone exactly where they wanted them to get easy baskets every possession.
Young Rondo was on his “I’m the star” bs, I don’t think they’d meld as well back then as they did in the bubble
Rondo was an awesome point of attack defender and would provide elite secondary ball handling.
Rondo and Bron’s IQ is so fucking high that i honestly really doubt they wouldnt figure it out
Seriously I think they win I think they win in 10 and probably get a couple in the four year stretch before GSW and KG gets too old to compete. But between 08-14 I think they can get at least 4 chips before Ray & KG are cooked.
I still think cavs would have beat the Warriors if Kyrie and Love didn’t get hurt
You sure Bron could overcome Doc’s ineptitude?
The 2008 Celtics managed to do it, and they almost did it again in 2010. I think LeBron is good enough to overcome Doc’s choking.
A much older LeBron almost overcame Ham’s ineptitude in 2023.
LOL, fair
Yes. At least then. I feel like Doc’s like a billionaire. Slowly going more and more out of touch.
If Pierce could?
even as a Lakers fan I would love to see that ngl that would’ve been the best defensive and offensive team as seen in lebron in 09 carrying them bum ass cavs
Love the candor, lmao
Bro is the Truth
KG and Pierce are too funny when it comes to LeBron.
https://youtu.be/d9Dyd3n0xw4
btw if you guys enjoyed that vid, this one is even better albeit not Bron-related:
https://youtu.be/Hbo-f_b-73M
Wild duo. KG of all people trying to be the responsible adult in the room is great, it’s like that time Boogie Cousins broke up a fight on the court.
Let’s finish it off with KG playing DPOY-level defense on some onion rings (special guest appearance by Boogie too):
https://youtu.be/z6LLTxjXQ4s
DONK-ITCH
I’m taking JOHN-IS
Are they with Nick kyrgios 😭
Lol yeah he’s always been big into basketball
CUPCAKE
Watched these plenty of times and what stuck with me was, how well I felt represented by Nicks and DMCs reactions.
Mind you, this is the only time he’s told the truth in his entire post-basketball career, lmao.
Idk. He was pretty honest about the escort he hired that one night.
“Monica, come thru, you can make so much paper.”
“Call some girls up! Call some work!”
Some top class ritter
What’s ritter though?
He’s a professional mess
Radical candor
Someone replaced Paul Pierce lol.
Yeah I was expecting him to say he would’ve won a ring
How in the world did he become self aware at this advanced age
Did ya’ll forget Paul Pierce drunk congratulated Bron when he crossed Kareem in points.
I thought he was saying the Celtics with LeBron wouldn’t make the playoffs initially
He knows Bron on the Celtics would have nuked the entire league
L’eBron Séamus
I was expecting him to say the Celtics wouldn’t make the playoffs lol
I was expecting him to say he’d have won 2 rings in 1 season lol.
A lot of his provocative comments were from when he was on ESPN
Also this dude is drunk/high constantly lol, idk how serious he’s ever been about what he says
Yeah he probably thought bombastic hot takes would get him paid more, which seems to work on ESPN for a lot of guys - and I fucking hate it.
Media in modern society is just one big rage bait now
MONICA, come through!
Shannon sharp recently said something normal and ppl in the comment section were upset because he argued the opposite on Undisputed… those arguments are prewritten. They know who is gonna defend who and who is gonna have hot takes…it was scripted loosely. he probably didn’t always believe everything he said and did not care.
I don’t blame them.
Honestly ever since he’s left ESPN he’s been more conciliatory towards Bron
ESPN makes their panelists have reactionary opinions about Bron, so I’m not surprised at all about that.
hes no longer on a network and can talk freely. In that Max Kellerman interview where he talked about Stephen A, he basically said if sports hosts agree with the consensus thered be no views and he was the one tasked to make bullshit claims for the views. Pierce definitely also had that role before he got fired.
Yeah Max Kellerman has basically talked about how almost scripted those segments. Hosts just take a position that Stephen A can pretend to silently simmer, get angry, and then rant about
Nah he’s always been chill like this. He’s the Truth after all.
This dude needed a decade but is finally turning around.
Jokes aside tho if you listen to his pod with KG(which btw the best pod from former player), his basketball take is really really good, and he almost always praising Bron.
Its when hes on TV he had to put the character or follow the narrative “we all should hate Lebron”.
Just further proof that espn is intentionally directing these guys to be clowns.
Because everyone Talks about them being clowns and noone talks about PP reasonable takes on his pod
I mean, I don’t. I don’t even engage with ESPN anymore. At most I’ll watch “ESPN on NBC” or some crap they pull now.
ESPN charges 30 a month for just their cable channels. Fuck ESPN.
I honestly don’t think they need direction.
He soldout and accepted the Klutch bag smh
He had Garnett, ray and rondo but LeBron was still putting up numbers. I think he’s accepting reality. Larry bird also mentioned just how bad that supporting cast is
That narrative is still going around SMH
More the other way around. He was accepting the ESPN bag and put out clown takes, he’s reasonable on most podcasts
The longest road (that he walked in a bathrobe)
Exactly why ring culture is so stupid
It is, penalizes great players stuck on bad teams
Imagine if Kobe didn’t start on the Lakers with Shaq, and instead wasted his prime years on the Hornets before trading like LeBron did
Not only does it penalize good players on bad teams, but it actually incentivizes those same players to try to link up and ring chase. Fans and media talk about how much they respect loyalty and hate ring chasing, yet they are the exact cause of the ring chasing culture - players feel like they have to leave their teams to get a ring so everyone will shut the hell up lol
That’s the thing about people who say players sold out for a ring, I know for a fact that if those players didn’t win a ring at all because they stayed on a shit team, those same people would talk shit about them never winning. Besides, once you retire no one gives a shit about that kind of stuff anymore, they just see how many accolades you got.
Imagine TMac playing on a better team in his prime, or Harden winning just one ring anywhere, the fans will love them.
if Chris Paul doesn’t get hurt then Harden’s legscy looks much different.
Fans would still hate Harden, he’d get the SGA treatment for being a foul baiter
Nah it gets forgotten.
We don’t even hear about dwhistle anymore lol
Then basketball “fans” would clown Kobe for not being loyal to a single franchise, which is another stupid talking point.
Exactly, it’s a business and teams don’t hesitate to cut or trade players in their best interest so a player doing the same shouldn’t be shamed
Or if they just never got Pau and Phil never came back
At the same time, great players on great teams never got to show everything they could do, because they played to make the system work. I think of Steve Nash - he has said he wishes he had played in this era so he could have seen what he could be playing a Steph Curry style. Nash was a killer shooter but he focused on running the offense and now people want to criticize his MVPs because he didn’t average 25+ a game.
Solid point
he came to his senses when those black klutch suvs pulled up on him
Rich Paul made calls
Lmao did not expect him to say that. I love Pauly P realizing if he talks up LeBron it makes him look better
He don’t even need to do that tho. The Truth was a great player, won a ring, had his own battles with the likes of Kobe and Bron, his team lost to theirs but also has beaten theirs too.
Bron has also even acknowledged years ago that Pierce was a rival of his.
People already hate Pierce, so anything he says is always taken wildly out of context and ridiculed. D Wade himself has said Pierce was Brons greatest rival but if Pierce says something similar he gets clowned on it’s dumb, but on par with modern nba discourse
Paul is Bron’s biggest rival during the first half of his career. Curry is easily his biggest rival of the second half.
Yeah dunno why it took so long for some of those guys to realise that. C’s knocked Lebron out of the playoffs a couple of times before that 2012 series
wish he would have realized it sooner because now people look at you crazy if you say Paul Pierce was one of LeBrons biggest rivals
i hate that truth has ruined his legacy for nephews
dude was a monster before he was drunk uncle
Goated nickname too
Wasn’t it given to him by Shaq?
“Take this down. Paul Pierce is the motherfuckin truth”
Didn’t ruin anything, his Celtics teams before 2008 were what Lebron was working with on the Cavs at that time. That one ECF run is the most he got out of it. Lebron dragged the most average players to the Finals and if Lebron and Pierce met in the playoffs before 2008 it would go the way it went for the Arenas led Wizards.
lol. I still like him just fine. He’s hilarious and doesn’t take himself too seriously. I lived through 08, y’all can never make me hate The Truth.
We’re finally at the fifth stage, acceptance
Bron was younger and more athletic than Truth. But let’s not forget, Paul Pierce had a garbage Boston team alongside Antoine Walker and they did what they could. Took Truth to get KG and Ray Allen to get over the hump
Bron was dominating with a trash Cavs roster but he also didn’t get over the hump until he went to Miami.
Y’all also have to stop saying Paul Pierce wasn’t good. It was literal elite players calling him “The Truth” for a reason. Some of you all wasn’t even born yet
“Did you call bank?”
“I called game.”
PP at his peak was the original rival who helped push the young LeBron to greatness. The vet with a polished bag vs the unreal young raw talent- it was awesome to see them go blow for blow. LeBron learned so much of what made him great from this matchup.
my first basketball memory is pierce carrying a trash celtics team to the ecf, specifically game 3 of that series
2002, 24 years old vs the Nets. You see, some people have no memory of that because they weren’t even alive lol. Can’t play with 34 like that man. He’s was legit.
I was still young during pp sad years and i just ignored dude because they were not the team to watch
There are people who don’t think Pierce was good? I’ve literally never heard that. That’s crazy.
rare case of pierce selling himself low, he took worse teams to the playoffs
Yeah the 02-03 Celtics were basically the equivalent, and Pierce led them to the playoffs and won a round lol
Paul Pierce & Sasha Pavlović actually played together on the Celtics during the 10-11 and 11-12 seasons.
Bron had confidence in making the right play, to the point where he knew if he passed to the open guy, he did his job
At times a lot of people said it was frustrating to watch, but it allowed him to take some teams of pretty mediocre ability very deep into the playoffs
Saša Pavlović catching strays, I remember one time him telling that with LeBron they knew the Cavs would go to the finals, even though he felt he didn’t deserve it.
I don’t know why they’re talking about Pavlovic and Newble instead of people who played actual minutes like Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Ben Wallace, Wally Szczerbiak, or Delonte West.
Pavlovic did play real minutes, he was between 13-23 mpg each season on the Cavs. Newble not so much though lol
God our teams were ass, washed Ben Wallace, Ziggy, don’t get me started on Delonte. Mo Williams was only decent option, and he couldn’t hit the side of a barn in the playoffs.
I respect the honesty lol
I’m not a Pierce fan but i appreciate him not acting like Arenas or TMac do when talking about how much they would dominate if only XYZ happened. He was on a trajectory to be a bitter old head but maybe is turning it around lol
Its easier for him to have the confidence to “lower” himself because he has a FMVP compared to those guys who can only live in hypotheticals
God ever since PP got fired from espn he has been hilarious. I love this version of him lol
Paul “The Truth” Pierce
The realest take from PP
Could you imagine if early 20s LeBron had KG as a veteran teammate/mentor? What kind of monster that would have spawned…
The 2008 Cavs Roster:
…this squad finished with the best record in the NBA (66-16) that year.
I don’t know how he did that lol 😂
They woulda definitely made the playoffs in the east
They were probably thinking he was gonna say the Cavs would have had the same run, but Paul did the old Uno reverse on em
The truth finally speaks the truth lol
Before I watched I was rolling my eyes waiting to see how many ships he was leading the Cavs too. Touché Mr. Pierce 😂
At least hes finally honest with himself now
wow pierce giving lebron his respect
That’s the Truth
It’s the slump/melt into the chair for me
That’s why they call him the Truth
Have some respect for ‘FINALS STARTER SASHA PAVLOVIC’
Bron made average players look way better
He’s an inspiration, remaining so positive despite being completely paralyzed from the shoulders down!
Trying to picture LeBron in a Celtics jersey is like trying to picture a circle with corners.
Alright people need to cool it with how that roster is talked about lol
Pierce had carried similar looking rosters to the playoffs beforehand. He’s selling himself short there. If he was healthy they’d be somewhere at or below .500 looking at a 8 seed. Def a first round exit though
Hahah - I feel like he’s usually way more ego-y than this. Props cuz he’s right.
He still got in the “probably would have led the league in scoring” though, so he hasn’t been taken over by a robot, still him.
Pierce definitely could’ve led the league in scoring under the right circumstances. In the 2001-2002 season, he led the league in total points scored but not in Ppg.
That celtics team would’ve been an all timer
Good to see Big Wos having fun!
You can’t win with those cats.
Most honest thing he’s ever said
i won’t stand for this ira newble disrespect
We’re so lucky that Lebron had the mindset of a point guard from a young age and accidentally kept growing.
I was in here expecting a funny comment bout how Pierce is tryna get comfortable almost laying down on that damn chair
That’s probably the nicest thing he’s ever said about LeBron.