MrFishAndLoaves | Pelicans

196 | 6 hours ago

The Four Horsemen of r/nba

Luka, Embiid, Harden and Jordan.

lethalizered | Thunder

16 | 6 hours ago

Cue Metallica playing at the back

TheAgmis | Thunder

2 | 5 hours ago

#GIMME FYOO GIMME FIVE GIMME DABAJABAZAH

lethalizered | Thunder

2 | 5 hours ago

You do know they actually have a song called “The Four Horsemen”, right? Lol

SEND-MARS-ROVER-PICS

2 | 2 hours ago

If you say the name one more time, Dave Mustaine will burst through your wall to tell you he wrote the song.

lethalizered | Thunder

1 | an hour ago

Hahahahaha

UMPIN | Wizards

2 | an hour ago

All currently underrated players

IcyMeat7

67 | 6 hours ago

I would not consider 39 games a season

Lacabloodclot9 | Grizzlies

27 | 6 hours ago

I don’t really know what the cutoff for these stats usually is, I do agree with you though

I think anything below 50 is probably out of the question

whatssenguntoagoblin | Alperen Sengun

20 | 6 hours ago

NBA tracks season seasons with a 70% minimum cutoff

dragonwhale

2 | 3 hours ago

So it don’t qualify

Shot_Bank_5843 | Mavericks

53 | 6 hours ago

Luka is super unlucky with injuries early in the game, I think his average would have been 35 this year without two games he left early

Same with 23-24

f_et_al | United States

25 | 6 hours ago

Partly why rate stats are good. Per 36 min, or even better, per 75 possessions (also accounts for pace across eras).

lethalizered | Thunder

22 | 5 hours ago

Those stats are just good if the MPG is very close to 36, otherwise extrapolating can get a lot tricky.

I’m saying this as an OKC fan, if you compare Shai and Luka’s per 36 scoring numbers Shai actually gets ahead of Luka by a slight margin, but to me that’s not really meaningful because we can’t just go by “what ifs”.

BombshellExpose | Lakers

39 | 5 hours ago

Yea, this would be like if Luka only ever played first quarters and we extrapolated that to a per 36, he would be averaging 100 lol.

Chartate101 | Pistons

15 | 5 hours ago

first quarter Luka is top 3 OAT, maybe the GOAT, its wild

BombshellExpose | Lakers

10 | 5 hours ago

It’s insane watching him casually drop 20 in the first quarter. It almost confuses me how he doesn’t just average 50.

f_et_al | United States

2 | 5 hours ago

Yeah, kind of perplexing. As a Luka fan, do you notice / think it’s volume or efficiency or both?

In theory, a more in shape Luka could sustain a similar performance longer into the game and we’d really be seeing some insane shit.

Some might point to his crazy run lately, but tbh he had a similar pattern of hot streaks in Dallas post-AS / approaching the playoffs, so I’m not sure it’s that much of an outlier.

Luka’s having a great season, but if I’m honest, I’m actually a bit susprised he’s not been even better - given improved fitness and entering his traditional prime.

CrazyChatter | Lakers

6 | 5 hours ago

It’s usually because he uses his scoring to set the table for his teammates later on. His 1st quarter scoring streak usually forces teams to start covering him harder afterward. Also, he plays all 12 minutes in the first quarter compared to 6-7 in the 2nd. At that point in the game, he assists more and teams also start trying more varied coverages on him including doubles.

Luka’s pretty good at responding accordingly to the defensive coverage and it usually shifts pretty heavily after the 1st quarter unless he’s off and clanking everything that day. Although, he’s definitely shooting from deep more constantly most likely due to the lack of deep threat besides Austin and Rui until Luke came along on the Lakers.

Augchm | 76ers

5 | 5 hours ago

There is no shape that will help him sustain that a whole game. Players can’t put up 40 shots every night. Luka likes to take a lot of his shots in the first but that means he will usually not take many shots in the second and first part of the third quarter e

superb_worker | Mavericks

1 | 3 hours ago

It’s because he’s not the ballhog that everyone thinks he is.

Constant_Charge_4528 | Bulls

1 | 3 hours ago

Because teams start to close him down hard when he’s hot, like triple teaming him at the halfway line hard. He can play out of it but it tends to drop his scoring.

Augchm | 76ers

3 | 5 hours ago

Luka is the goat first quarter player and it’s not even close. I won’t even look at the stats, I have no doubt in my mind.

djkido316

1 | 20 minutes ago

Luka Dončić has the most points per game in the first quarter this season, with 12.0 per game.

And nobody else is closer to even 10ppg lol, and oh by the way he’s the number one first quarter scorer in the history of NBA.

f_et_al | United States

2 | 5 hours ago

Agree there can be noise like if a bench player is scoring at a super high rate in 15min a game.

But when 1) comparing leading scorers in a season with some slight variation in minutes, 2) comparing the same player across several seasons, 3) or comparing players across eras, it can be valuable in painting a more accurate picture (e.g. Thinking Basketball used it in his Greatest Peaks series, along with rTS%).

re: Shai - similar in some sense to Steph in the dynasty years where he sat a good bit due to big leads. Despite Harden and Westbrook’s gaudy numbers, Curry was likely still the best guard. And despite Luka’s torrid streak as of late, Shai is still comfortably ahead in most advanced stats (which are rate based). Luka’s debatably having his 2nd best season, and there are some monsters ahead of him.

EmrysMyrdin

1 | 3 hours ago

That is also why the discussion of volume vs efficiency has become ridiculous. We hear all the time how Jokic is the most efficient and how he could be the scoring champ had he just taken more shots. And for some reason it is taken for granted that he can just take more shots and maintain the same efficiency. Volume can be a quality in itself, and the more someone shoots the more difficult it is to keep high efficiency, due to the exhaustion and the shot selection

Augchm | 76ers

1 | 5 hours ago

They are useful but they also come with the caveat that it gets harder to score the most minutes you play. You can’t say “oh he played 20 minutes and scored x so if he played 36 he would score y”. It doesn’t really work like that since fatigue and defense change, among other variables.

f_et_al | United States

2 | 5 hours ago

I think that’s fair, and often overlooked / dismissed by analytics guys / pundits. (And I do mention in another response that it doesn’t apply well for bench guys.)

Relevant_South_1842

1 | 2 hours ago

Early in the game?

TangerineStrong3781 | Lakers

18 | 6 hours ago

Luka just dropped in the MVP rankings because of this post

whatssenguntoagoblin | Alperen Sengun

6 | 6 hours ago

Demar Derozon just passed him in MVP rankings. We have to stop pointing out when Luka is doing good.

dbzmah | Mavericks

1 | 5 hours ago

New year, same shit

Electronic_Pea_4845 | Iran

23 | 6 hours ago

Luka embid harden is good company

ImThatVigga | Clippers

11 | 5 hours ago

First Team All-Freethrows

SerenadeSwift | Supersonics

6 | 4 hours ago

I was absolutely shocked to see that Embiid is actually the only one of the three who didn’t lead the league in free throw attempts during any of their 33+ PPG seasons.

RuinedAmnesia | 76ers

4 | 4 hours ago

Per game or in total? Embiid definitely was up there in FTA/G during his prime.

SerenadeSwift | Supersonics

6 | 4 hours ago

Per game. Like I said I was surprised lol. Embiid led the league in attempts twice, just ironically not in his two best scoring seasons.

mkLOW | Lakers

10 | 6 hours ago

Unethical mount rushmore 🥹

Electronic_Pea_4845 | Iran

16 | 6 hours ago

Basically most hated on opposing teams and most loved by thier fan base lol

Mr_Hugh_Honey

-1 | 5 hours ago

Foul baiting HOFers

ShuckiestOfDuckies

3 | 5 hours ago

Being Shai fanboy and saying stuff like that.

Mr_Hugh_Honey

2 | 4 hours ago

What?

JeanVicquemare | Supersonics

3 | 6 hours ago

I believe he’s the second player to average 33 points and 8 assists for a season. Tiny Archibald in 1972-1973, and this will be Luka’s second time

JerosBWI | Lakers

9 | 5 hours ago

Ignoring Wilt who probably did it like 7 times or something.

JeanVicquemare | Supersonics

6 | 5 hours ago

I don’t think so. His highest assist seasons were 7.8 and 8.6, and he only averaged 24 points per game those years.

JerosBWI | Lakers

3 | 5 hours ago

You’re right, I also just looked him up.

Some of his stats tho, just lmao. In his 50PPG season he averaged 39.5 FGA and 17 FTA…

TheWarelock | Heat

2 | 6 hours ago

That statmuse site always seems off to me. Not nexesssrily talking about this stat but just in general.

Lacabloodclot9 | Grizzlies

1 | 5 hours ago

I like using it because of the search function, I do prefer basketball reference’s formatting

I should also probably just spend the 5 dollars for cleaning the glass

dragonwhale

1 | 3 hours ago

Embiid only has 1. We ain’t counting a 39 game season. That ain’t even half a season.

MikeyBastard1 | Spurs

1 | 6 hours ago

Sign of the times

Strange_Lab_3474

1 | 5 hours ago

He’s getting to 34 before the season ends

Zestyclose-Camp3553

1 | 5 hours ago

Who is that in the thumbnail?

NemusSoul | Lakers

2 | 5 hours ago

And he’s carrying a team that would be a lottery team without him. Third place in the west with just a few games left. Fucking slacker. If he didn’t whine he could actually score and his team would win.

kemar7856

0 | 5 hours ago

Free throw merchants Rushmore

4NorthTL

-3 | 6 hours ago

All 4 guys in the running have a legit argument for it, but if anyone should be mad, it should be Jokic.

MultiPass21

-4 | 5 hours ago

It’s hard to put a lot of weight behind these types of stats in the stat-flation era - at least for me

No arguing Luka is a generational scorer. But I just don’t know what to do with these cross-era comparisons at this point.

NemusSoul | Lakers

5 | 5 hours ago

You don’t have to do anything. We aren’t deciding who is mvp based on previous years or players. Or playoff performance, either.

msf97

1 | 5 hours ago

All hold up across the different eras when you adjust.

Embiid has 2 of the top 8 seasons ever per 75 possessions.

Old_Supermarket_7575 | Thunder

-8 | 6 hours ago

SGA would’ve had this locked up if he didn’t sit 22 4ths man

ShuckiestOfDuckies

8 | 5 hours ago

Nonsense, Shai spends way less energy than Luka. Part of the reason his efficiency is higher. If he got doubled all the time and targeted on d it would be a different story.

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F8rx793bxg3sg1.jpeg

Old_Supermarket_7575 | Thunder

1 | 21 minutes ago

Shai gets more doubles than Luka and scores more efficiently on them what are you trying to tell me

Shai scores more per minute and he sat 22 games against teams bc he was winning by 20+ in the 4ths he’s averaging 32 on 70 ts% in 29 mpg against those teams

Western-Election-997 | Lakers

-7 | 6 hours ago

And the only one to not win an MVP averaging over 33 points a game

TitoFlavors215 | PHI

19 | 6 hours ago

Didn’t Kobe average 35 in 06

lethalizered | Thunder

27 | 6 hours ago

Don’t need to go that far, Harden didn’t win MVP during the season he averaged 36.1 ppg and his team won 53 games that season lol

Ok_Turn6757 | Lakers

1 | 6 hours ago

he could mean all the other ones have MVP’s

lethalizered | Thunder

2 | 6 hours ago

I mean yeah but Harden won his MVP while he didn’t average 33(he was at 30.4 ppg during his MVP season) so it just feels like a weird statement to make.

Western-Election-997 | Lakers

1 | 6 hours ago

It’s not weird at all, if Luka continues having 33ppg seasons he’d be the only one on that group to not win mvp

lethalizered | Thunder

1 | 6 hours ago

If his career ends MVPless, sure.

When Harden won his MVP his highest ppg season ever was 30.4.

Higher scoring seasons came in after he won the MVP award, not before.

SquintsRS | Hornets

2 | 5 hours ago

Almost seems worse for Luka when you say it like that

Western-Election-997 | Lakers

-1 | 6 hours ago

The point is they both won Mvps other years, this will be Lukas second time over 33ppg another year he was close at 32.4, each time he’s been shunned for mvp

Gets a little questionable on what the criteria is

preddevils6 | Grizzlies

4 | 5 hours ago

He’s not been shunned. He just hasn’t been the best player

messigoat1337 | Germany

1 | 5 hours ago

he was in ²³⁄₂₄

preddevils6 | Grizzlies

-1 | 3 hours ago

When he finished a distant third? He had volume counting stats. Shai, Jokic, and Giannis had better advanced stats and efficiency.

NemusSoul | Lakers

0 | 5 hours ago

The criteria is “He’s Luka, not an mvp”.

Sammy2729 | Lakers

-3 | 6 hours ago

lakers can do better than that if they go 6-2 in their final games, while luka is having a more efficient and a better playmaking season

lethalizered | Thunder

7 | 6 hours ago

while luka is having a more efficient and a better playmaking season

Harden was at 61.6 TS for his 36.1 ppg season lol. Luka can get past him sure(he’s at 61.5 now) but the ppg difference is pretty drastic when we get to the 30s in the ppg department.

Harden also averaged 7.5 apg, man was no slouch in that department but yeah Luka beats him by 0.7 there currently.

DarthVeigar_

2 | 6 hours ago

I swear Luka could record a quadruple double for three games in a row and he’d somehow slip in MVP rankings lol

mrwhite2323 | Heat

-12 | 6 hours ago

Jordan, Kobe and AI had some terrible ts years

Paolo gets hate for his ts but his is higher lmao

mkLOW | Lakers

19 | 6 hours ago

Not the same league anymore

MrFishAndLoaves | Pelicans

13 | 6 hours ago

Not the same players either. Paulo is a big. The others are guards.

Lacabloodclot9 | Grizzlies

2 | 6 hours ago

He has the shot profile of a big guard or smaller wing though

Ok_Turn6757 | Lakers

2 | 6 hours ago

that only works if you’re efficient

SloshaPacana

10 | 6 hours ago

Because they played in the slowest doggiest inefficient era ever

Kobe wasn’t even inefficient, he was above average efficiency basically every of his prime because of free throws mostly and decent three point shooting for his time

AI not so much because he was a 6 footer with the ultimate grnen light

legend023 | Pelicans

3 | 6 hours ago

TS% was worse at the time, players didn’t shoot as much threes as now. AI and MJ barely shot the 3 compared to the mid range shots they took
In their very best scoring seasons, all 3 of those players had bad/defensive-orientated teams which meant they had to shoot a ton for their teams to have a chance to win

Jimbob3498 | Bucks

3 | 5 hours ago

Jordan and Kobe weren’t inefficient - both of them were above league average true shooting, unlike Paolo. Jordan was particularly efficient from 1987-91 where he averaged 34.5 ppg on 60.7% true shooting, where league average was 53-54%. At +6 above the league he was similar to Shai last year - 63.7% TS, league average was 57.6%.

The only season Jordan was below league average true shooting was in the 17 games he played in 1994-95. Kobe was similarly generally slightly above league average true shooting, but never got to the same efficiency heights of Jordan.

AI was inefficient for his time, but his 51% TS in his MVP year was very close to the league average of 51.8%. Paolo is at 56.7% TS when the league average is 58.1%.

InvestigatorOk8299

-18 | 6 hours ago

His offense is so great because he doesn’t spend any of his energy on defense.

verynicehighfive55 | Knicks

9 | 6 hours ago

lol maybe watch the games?

Ok-Frosting2235 | Wizards

2 | 6 hours ago

what an insightful criticism

Luka Doncic is averaging 33.7 PPG, if he were to end the season like this he would join Embiid, Harden and Jordan (x3) as the only players to have multiple 33 PPG seasons since 1980.