draft order by a teams lowest rating on 2k

Jazz got fucked by horrible draft luck, it’s real funny they get bashed by teams hitting lottery after lottery. Their highest pick in this tanking period is fucking Ace Bailey at 5th.

If that’s what you think, then you should be really concerned about the direction the league is going with its tanking ‘fixes.’ The easiest solution to the problem you’re identifying is un-flattening the lottery odds, making it harder for teams with talent to match teams without. Of course, the problem with that solution is that the route to a good draft pick becomes what the Nets are doing: cheaping out on the roster and minimizing the amount of talent you have. That means not signing veterans. And those guys are actually the backbone of the league, and the union takes care of them.

Everyone has 1 more year to pull the bs. Jazz making full use of it lol.

I don’t know why the Jazz get this reputation as a shitty tanking franchise it feels disingenuous. They’ve usually just been a regular bad team that gets shit on by not having premium picks in the draft. Utah has ALWAYS tried to put out competitive teams until right now and all of a sudden they’re the face of tanking

I think the Jazz were actually going to try this year before Kessler’s injury. Like you said, they still could have been a 30-40 win team with the way George and Markannen were playing. But why do that if there’s no incentive? Now, they have a decent shot at a top 4 pick.

Markannen, JJJ, George, Kessler, Sensabaugh, Bailey, top 8 pick in the deepest draft in a long time.

If they aren’t a playoff team next season, they need to move the franchise b/c come on.

But if you don’t allow the Jazz to tank, they will be stuck in mediocrity while the “genuinely bad” teams get gifted stars and pass them, year after year

Mid 40s wins? We talking about one season or two?

As good as the Suns? What are we doing here

Keyonte, Ace, Markanenn, JJJ, Kessler is a good lineup on paper, but due to health I cant see this team making 40 wins

The Celtics and 76ers were allowed to tank for years but now it’s a problem. This is why the NBA is a joke.

Firstly, if people genuinely think the Jazz were a high 30s-mid 40s win team this season, they’re high. The team is better than its record, but not good, and many of the injuries have been legitimate.

That said, I do kind of agree that the genuinely bad teams suffer when less bad teams tanks, it’s largely a result of the flattened odds and how much the system incentivises being bad. Making tanking less desirable is the way to go, rather than just hoping teams will stop doing what’s best for them.  

Sadly, Silver doesn’t seem to know what will make it better and insists on making it worse instead.

Sorry, but I’ve watched pretty much every Jazz game this year. They are not a 30 win team this year. Maybe with everyone healthy next year we can get past 30 wins. Would love to see what jjj can do.

Why should they be mediocre and go for a 10th place play in exit?

The Warriors have Curry, Grizzlies are just now starting to rebuild, Pels don’t own their first round and Mavs got bailed out by a 1% chance.

The system has to change because smart front offices are tanking. Ideally, we want teams to be bad because of incompetence or mismanagement only. I do think the first of the 3 proposals put forward by the league would rectify a lot of these issues 

Not that I think we need to discuss this more than we already have, we’ve heard this a hundred times, but you never proposed a solution, just a problem. We all know this problem exists, but the struggle for the NBA is to come up with a solution.

So essentially the only thing you’re doing is complaining, which isn’t productive.

There will always be “bad” teams. That’s never changed in the history of the league. I argue that flattening the odds to the same percentage chance did all non-playoff teams would eliminate teams need to tank. By forcing every team to try as hard as possible and put the best product on the floor is better for the league.

How’s that tanking been going for the Jazz? I think their fanbase can attest, it’s not exactly a smashing success.

I also kinda think this is the end of the line for that with Utah and Washington. They have too many good players and future drafts won’t be this stacked.

To me, this is solely being made an issue because of the gambling companies the league has partnered with not liking what late season tanking does to fuck with their ability to set lines and odds.

Cause otherwise, what are we talking about here….maybe a few teams that probably could’ve competed for a play in and 7 teams that are legit kinda dogshit. And we already know since they flattened the odds, it’s not like tanking the best benefits teams all that much.

I just think this is a unique draft class where you have a bunch of guys who could be all stars but no clear cut #1.

Lakers fan not understanding what small market teams have to do to be able to compete

Yeah this is the result of Sam Presti. The OKC Thunder winning a ring is basically the blueprint for every small market team to win now.

Like there was tanking before but now it’s stealth tanking. It’s solid, middle of the pack teams tanking to get more good players.

The problem has already been fixed. The 2nd apron now prevents teams from hoarding talent and it discourages overpays. Thus there is more player movement. The Pre-Agency phenomenon already shows the “new” pathway for building teams.

The Women’s hockey league has a great system, I may get this wrong as im paraphrasing here, but essentially, the moment you get mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, you get points for how many wins you get after that.  

So like the Wizards right now (who if they aren’t mathematically out, I’m unsure how thats possible) would essentially have a seperate standing of wins between them and the other teams out.  A team that is horrible enough to be out of it early has more swings than a team that loses in a tight play-in race, but is still terrible to be there in the first place and may need the extra swings at the piñata.  And that then determines draft order (I forget if its still a lottery based on that or if its a hard cap like NFL).

But I feel like thats the most creative idea ive seen yet around tanking and time will tell if its overall successful but so far it sounds really neat.

I disagree OP. I think you are overestimating the Jazz. Lauri is good not great

This sub will never recover from Cooper Flagg going to the Mavs….

Selection committee.

Just make the regular season matter more. Finish 1st get larger share of TV money. Finish last get smaller share.

Mian isdue is that current system doesn’t help mediocre teams you has to be a good team(don’t need draft picks) or really bad (can draft high enough). That creates system wherd no one wants to be mediocre good

They should pay bonuses for beating teams with better records during the regular season. I’m sure there’s a price point at which it wouldn’t make sense to intentionally tank. The truly bad teams wouldn’t be able to take advantage of it, so they’d still get the benefits of the draft.

Got it. Thanks. I don’t think that would work. Teams could just try to acquire the most points for 4 years and then bid for number 1 pick the following for 4 years? How many points are allowed to bid in year 5 in your system? It’s all the same. Thats my point.

One of the more clever solutions I’ve seen for this is the Carry-Over Lottery Allocation, neatly ELI5’d by the dev of ZenGM in this recent update to the game.

scouting and development are where teams should be focusing. shit organizations don’t get good value out of high picks

The real way to fix this is remove the fully guaranteed contracts and make that something players have to negotiate. There’s no tanking in the NFL because players can’t afford to tank

All this talk about fixing the problems ignore that no matter what changes you make, losing is still incentivized. Flatten/unflatten lottery odds, bid points you accumulate over multiple years, even the gold plan (draft order is based off most wins after being eliminated) they all fail to address the core of the issue. As long as the draft is the only way to acquire franchise changing talent, there will always be an incentive for the bad teams in the league to not try. Start punishing teams for losing and you’ll see these blatant tank jobs cease. Bad teams will still exist but at least they’ll be trying to win

Interesting. Bidding for what?

PS the tech industry isn’t the NBA

If they focused on winning this season, they certainly would’ve won more games, but not 20 more games

The real issue is that the teams beg for a solutions then turn around and game the system nullifying the solution they asked for. I feel like stern would’ve found a way to tell teams to knock it off instead of creating yet another rule to be gamed. It’s only 30 teams, they should be able to figure out how to police themselves without the need for all this nonsense

You say what we can’t have. What is the fix?

We have the second apron. It is time to remove salary caps based on years of service. It is also time to remove the benefits teams have in resigning, their young guys, especially being able to give them way better contracts than other teams.

With how punitive the second apron is, it may be time to remove max contracts and let the markets lead to parity.

One of the dumbest ideas fans will mention during these discussions is when fans mention teams not being able to build around a star with too big of a contract. This is not a problem. That is how it should be. It should be a legitimate debate as to whether it is better to build around a superstar or to have a lot of very good non-superstars. It was good when Minnesota found it hard to put other stars around KG.

A league where having the best player doesn’t guarantee you a winning season would actually be ideal.

Maybe tie money for the owners to wins, this should happen indirectly as a crappy team will draw less fans and less money but it’s apparently not incentive enough. We should distribute luxury tax payments proportionally based on wins and see if that fixes tanking

I think from a fan perspective relegation is by far the best solution, but for ownership it’s a non-starter because of the risk to profits that would come from having your team relegated. It’s a shame because it would be the single best way to incentivize teams to always improve their team and try to be the best team they can be. Owners would suddenly care a LOT more about how the team is doing.

Maybe get rid of the lottery altogether. They could also institute a rule that a team can’t have a top 4 pick in consecutive years. They could also get rid of protected picks.

That being said, I wonder if this will blow over. The draft this year is supposed to be loaded, so there might not be this level of tanking in the future.

Personally I’m glad Utah are tanking so OKC doesn’t get their frp this year.

Boo hoooo

Oh. 100%

They should just go back to the unflattened odds

Let the media vote for the draft order like they vote for All NBA

Are the jazz tanking? Yes but the jazz also haven’t made the playoffs in 6 years they are the definition of a bad team

Trust me Wizards, Hornets and Kings fans have known this for a VERY long time lmao

Just introduce relegation, scrap the draft and let teams develop their own players in academies where the youth can compete with each other and focus on getting better instead of pretending to go to school. You can keep the salary cap to help maintain parity in the league.

All those expansion teams that people want to see in Seattle and Las Vegas? Let them start at the lower league that teams go to when they get relegated. So you can now also scrap the d/g league and have those players play in that league. Have the bottom two teams from the East and the bottom two from the West get relegated so two from each conference in the lower league get promoted. If you want to be shit for long you can do that in the lower league with less money. Let the NBA be for teams that are fighting to stay there. 

Fan bases need to be happy with having a good team that isn’t contending. I blame guys like SAS and ESPN for a lot of this shit. Suddenly your team isn’t worth rooting for if they’re not serious contenders? Stupid. Just gotta accept that in an era of max salaries that teams like the Lakers will be contenders much more often than the average team.

I just genuinely don’t think tanking is an issue. There’s been more tanking this season because the top 4 is absolutely stacked. There’s nothing stopping the “genuinely bad” teams from tanking alongside the teams that could be in a play in position. This is just a manufactured issue to serve the interests of gambling companies.

Earn draft points based on wins when you’re eliminated from playoff contention. Also if a team wins more than 50% the amount of games in the second half of the season than the first then they are penalized in some way that makes it stupid hard to game the system.

Bring Pro Rel to the NBA bottom 3 go play in the g league!

Oh, won’t someone PLEASE think of the genuinely bad teams?!!

Yeah no shit lol no one would be complaining if the genuinely bad teams got the best pucks every year

Fix the overcomplicated cap system instead of the draft.

I was looking at past drafts up to 2018. It’s interesting that if team drafted at the 10th pick, their chances to draft a top 3 player of that draft was close to 100%.

In other words, for every single draft the 3rd best player is often drafted 10th or lower.

You don’t need a top 3 draft pick to rebuild your team.

This is why I believe draft odds should be flattened for everyone in the lottery.

People act like this is the worst idea ever. What the heck is so bad about a middling team like the Bulls or Atlanta getting the first pick? Heck that’s what happened to the mavs basically. Did the league suddenly implode?

They need to de-incentivize being one of the 3 or 4 worst teams.

Just get rid of the draft lottery. The worst teams get the worst picks. We don’t need 15 teams with a legitimate shot at the number 1 pick. I feel like the more you flatten the odds the more tanking will happen. There’s going to be genuinely bad teams that never get a chance to get better.

As almost all posts or podcasts or etc., on this subject, your post is ridiculous.

The Jazz aren’t a good team. That is why they are tanking.

If they tried their bestest to win every game, they could have 38 wins??? And that would make their outlook better…..how???

The Jazz are never going to lure a free agent worth a damn. Their only hope getting a franchise player is through the draft.

I just dismiss dumb comments like “the Jazz are artificially bad.” It’s so stupid it’s almost unreal, but you might be a real person because I even see known basketball media flaunting shit like draft odds being flat for every non-playoff team.