[Highlight] Tyrese Haliburton on who his pick is for the MVP “My vote would for sure go to Shai back-to-back.”
give haliburton the mvp, pacers went from looking like winning game 7 of the finals to worst team in the last decade. clearly the most valuable player.
Underrated player. T-10 no doubt.
Can’t believe he was voted as the most overrated last year
I cant believe a common narrative was pascal was more impactful during that playoff run
Hali had some ups and downs during that playoff run and siakam was def holding it down at times
Tbh i think people would be a little surprised if they actually looked at hali’s numbers. The whole “4 game winners” thing was a significant part of the allure of the run (rightfully so) but it didnt mean he was otherwise dominating
But i know im about to get shit on for this on a hali thread lmao
Huge haliban fan and you’re 100% right, though I’d also say that Hali’s impact doesn’t always reflect on that stat sheet, and he’s not really consistent on his play style, he adjusts based on how he’s shooting and how his team matches up against a team. It’s why he’s such a winner, he doesn’t tend to get in his head about stat expectations and focuses on winning basketball however the cards are dealt
Haliban 😂
Imo Hali’s impact goes beyond stats in the same way Bird or Magic did, where his passing completely transformed the offense in a way assists can’t capture
And it’s not really like he’s Jokic or someone, but his ability to find someone up the floor immediately on the inbounds sometimes made teams feel like prey being hunted by ancient humans where there is literally no rest to be found anywhere.
It’s weird but Pascal was the go get a basket guy while Halliburton mostly kept pushing the pace to breakneck speed. It doesn’t show up in the box score, but him turning normal inbounding plays after baskets into fast breaks made it extremely tough to keep up on defense. In the finals, the Thunder had to shorten minutes for everyone because they were gassed in the 4th trying to keep up and that’s how the Pacers kept making comebacks. Sometimes, they’d give up a layup and the ball would be in the other hoop in 5 real time seconds. They’d even immediately attack the guy that just made a basket sometimes.
As a pacers fan you’re definitely right. Siakam is more consistent than Hali who can be really good or really passive depending on the night.
But that doesn’t mean Siakam is better than him. Our playstyle, our identity is built around Haliburton. Both Carlisle and Pritchard said that and they did a pretty great job creating a system that completely our franchise player.
Yup. I got the numbers for you:
19p/4a game 2 Cavs 4p/5a game 3 Cavs 11p/5a game 4 Cavs
His team won the series in 5 so no one says shit.
14⁄11 on 5-16 shooting game 2 NYK 20⁄7 game 3 NYK 8⁄6 game 5 NYK
14⁄6 game 1 OKC but he hit the game winner 17⁄6 w 5 TOV game 2 OKC 18⁄7 w 5 TOV game 4 OKC 4⁄6 game 5 OKC 14⁄5 game 6 OKC
Half of his games during the playoffs were downright awful to about a decent role player level…
He was pushing the pace and doing things in the flow of the offense in the playoffs. Whether he scores or not doesn’t have as much impact compared to him getting the ball to Turner or Siakam at the FT line 2 seconds into the shot clock after a made basket so teams have no chance to rest. Every team we faced was gassed in the 4th and couldn’t keep up whatsoever and he was a big reason why. Happened to the Thunder and they had to shorten minutes for everyone to keep up and the Pacers looked they would’ve had a shot to win with him on the floor in game 7. It’s hard to quantify that in a box score.
I totally agree his impact goes above box score numbers. But we’re talking about top 10 superstar players lol. You gotta have a line somewhere on tangible impact. Derrick white is one the better players in the league who’s box score numbers don’t show his insane impact. That doesn’t mean he’s a top 10 player. Regardless, Hali was very timid and invisible for far too many stretches. Again, this is talking about the best of the best. He’s a terrific player that any team would be better with adding because he’s not high usage and doesn’t force things usually. That being said he is NOT a top 10 player and I’d argue he’s probably outside the top 15.
The impact he has on the offense goes deeper than pace and is centered around his understanding of spacing in real-time. He’ll set up players for assists with his passing choices in a way I don’t really see others do. An example is ignoring a roll man to give it to the elbow on the defense’s strong side so you have a man in the paint stuck guarding the roll man and the corner 3, so the next pass is the corner 3 for an assist for someone else. He’ll pass up assist chances for a better shot off someone else’s assist and read it on the fly. He tries to make the best read for the team instead of finding the guy most ready to shoot and it leads to the defense scrambling in recovery to kickstart plays. It’s very hard to quantify compared to just flashy passing or making shots.
Also, Halliburton in game 1 was +12 in a 1-point win so idk what you’re talking about there
You’re right, people were so overcome with emotion. The hate they have for OKC and the excitement from those game winners, had them so drunk off emotion that they still think Haliburton is a “superstar” off of 15 PPG and 4 buzzer beaters in one playoff run. It was an amazing moment, but he is NOT a superstar. Ask any of those ppl if they would ever seriously consider Haliburton for an MVP and it’s crickets.
It’s the same narrative that LeBron’s washed, casual fans look at a box score that’s it. Anyone with half a brain can see brons iq is through the roof.
Anyone with even less of a brain can see the hali ran of offence either when he’s Off ball.
People are just haters. Look at the Pacers now. People better never bring up overrated and Hali in the same sentence anymore.
no pascal slander allowed. They were both equally important if you actually watched the games.
I don’t agree with that narrative at all, but Siakam felt like a force of nature during that run. I think Hali’s that dude, but I understand why some remember Pascal most.
The guy who hit 6 game winning shots was less impactful? I never heard that narrative but okay.
He was better in the finals for sure. And comparable throughout. Hali wasn’t much better than the rest of his team and some games not even top 2-3 players.
In stats, yeah, but watch the actual games and he was pushing them to a sprinting pace up the floor after every made basket. Half the time, the guy that made a basket was the one that got beat on the other end in like 5 real-time seconds. He’s a player where the impact really is hard to quantify.
Bro I promise you I do watch the games and the pacers were pushing the pace even when he wasn’t on the floor. He was a net negative in game 1 against OKC until he hit the clutch game winner. He was NOT dictating pace the way you’re claiming he was invisible and had no impact till the final minute. Yeah he’s a hard player to quantify but again we’re talking top 10 players. Idc how good you are outside of box score stats if the actual box score is 4 points and 5 assists. 8 points and 6 assists. 11 points and 5 assists. 4 points and 6 assists. That’s not a superstar top 10 player.
Based of what? Because the team simply don’t work without Hali. Even if he don’t end up with an assist or a bucket, he makes the offense runs smoothly
Brother, Hali didn’t make guys like Neismith hit 6 three pointers in the final 5 minutes to win against the Knicks. The entire team went from an average shooting team in the regular season to one of the best 3 point shooting teams in playoff history. Neismith, Nembhard, Turner, and some of the other role players literally had double digit jump in %.
The same people who are going to vote for MVP are also the one who said this stuff against Hali. NBA needs an overhaul from a lot of its systems.
X
He is one of my favorite players in the league, but he is definitely not a top 10 player. He bounces between being wildly underrated and wildly overrated. You can guess where we are right now coming off that playoff run.
I’m shocked you’re getting downvoted for this. He definitely is not a top 10 player in the league at the moment, nor was he before. The finals matchup showed it a ton, but their talent on that Pacers team was individually extremely impressive. Their defense, hustle and overall ruthlessness going to the basket via Siakam and Mathurin was arguably more of a factor than his playmaking and scoring.
Check any advanced stat you’d like and come back. He’s top 10 if not 5 in all of them including his horrible start to the year last season.
Idk about top 10.
But they voted him most overrated because they had voter fatigue for gobert. And they only vote gobert because no mt many players actually understand why having rudy (or a player like Rudy). is so good for a basketball team (they elevate defense in a way that really truly makes a difference).
They also lost a few guys like myles turner who was very good for them last year, had injuries to other key guys for most of the season, and have been actively tanking. Halis great but cmon now
We’re glad Myles is gone. Zubac is so much better
That has nothing to do with what I was saying, but okay
They are very different players and Zubac cannot shoot/space the floor. Myles is a better fit with Haliburton in general.
Bruh Myles is pure dogshit
Why, because he disappeared in the playoffs? There are not really any centers of his mold in the league up for grabs. He is a shitty rebounder and a bit of a wimp, but he fit in with the Pacers better than Zubac. Zubac is not going to be able to run the floor like him, he won’t be able to pick and pop, and they’re both roughly the same as rim protectors on help defense
Caitlin Cooper and Rick Carlisle said during the offseason that Pacers run a complex ecosystem of random offenses and its Tyrese that runs it. Despite being very good substitute, Nembhard is not Hali. Rick said that people will discover just how good Hali was/is because of his absense.
Podcast Interview: https://youtu.be/zTkNAb3Bvd0?si=KPkPplaTJ5Zx76gr
Pacers will be back better than last year. All the guys have gotten better, our center has been upgraded, and everyone would have been rested from the longer vacation, and eager to get back.
The top pick would be a bonus but not necessarily needed.
That’s what I’ve been saying in this thread. It’s so hard to quantify the impact of the insane pace that Halliburton is able to push the team to out there. Understanding mismatches and finding Siakam posting up from 75 feet away 1 second after getting the inbound is hard to do and puts an insane amount of pressure on the opponent. You can see the other team go wtf we just scored why is the ball already down here???
Idk, even at the start last season, they were kind of bad. Once his play improved, the team’s fortunes turned around completely. No one expected them in the finals for the first of half of the season. I do think he was a larger part of their success than people give him credit for.
I think ppl give him the right amount of credit, I think we shouldn’t get ahead of ourselves. He wasn’t playing as well as he was 2 years ago most of last year. Def turned up in the later part of the year and the playoffs but it was a lot of team effort that got them far. Hali just went clutch and that pushed them to game 7 of the finals.
Frfr a doc of their journey last year would be fire.
unironically this is the exact argument people make for Luka so I agree he should at least be on the ballot
If that’s how MVP is, then put Hali up for contention, but no one other than Luka gets close to winning. All the other candidates have a winning team without them.
Bummed they didn’t win it all. Felt like OKC would have more shots and the Pacers would be less likely to make it back
The narratives around them “looking like they were winning game 7” is insane. He was -2 before he got hurt.
Nah he’s overrated
This “MVP” conservation is so manufactured, it’s obviously been Shai since Jokic got injured. The Thunder having the first seed despite all the injuries around them and Shai having a BETTER season than last year tells you everything.
The only way it won’t be Shai is if OKC doesn’t win the first seed. The odds of that happening are probably ~5%.
As a thunder fan. It’s got to be way higher than a 5% chance of the spurs catching us
Yeah our schedule compared to theirs is pretty brutal. Assuming no series injures, it’s going to be very close.
Brutal that yall have the literal hardest remaining schedule in the league.
I think the chance yall pull through or we drop a game is the most likely situation, but it’s certainly exciting to see it this close.
It’s going to be very fun watching these two teams over the next several years. Wemby is a freak.
OKC have a harder schedule than san antonio, and the spurs have the tie breaker. Still think Shai wins the MVP regardless, but san antonio could definitely get the one seed over okc
Only way Shai loses it is if the Spurs get the one seed on the back of an ungodly run by Wemby to finish the season.
Yeah but there’s a decent chance of that happening
The problem with that is, I don’t think the Spurs schedule is hard enough for Wemby to warrant doing that right before the postseason. I feel like him hard chasing for an award is a disaster waiting to happen for his fatigue. They’ll probably cruise through 80% of those games, I feel like.
I think I heard somewhere the odd are closer to 20%, but I get your point. I honestly think even without the first seed, he wins. Either way I’m ready to move on from the awards conversation. People have gone a little nutty on this.
It’s -320 shai and +270 wemby rn, while being -700 okc for 1 seed
Thus vegas odds reflect a real “wemby wins it as 2 seed” chance
Yeah it’s a no brainer. I still believe it will be wide open next season with Wemby’s rise and Doncic being finally fit. It’s still exhausting to see so many threads about the same topic
I think it’s almost a closed MVP race next season. People are so ready to give it to Wemby, if he plays 65+ games he gets it imo
Doncic is fit this season. Idk how much more fit he can become.
I would be really surprised if it was anyone but Wemby or Luka next year. Luka has been so close the last few years, and Wemby is on the cusp of taking over the league.
Probably comes down to who stays healthy and/or has the better record.
Your logic is potential Shai voter fatigue?
Assuming Shai wins it this year, I don’t think he will win 3 in a row. I don’t think Jokic will get another either unless they get the 1 seed. 4 puts him tied with LeBron, and it seems like they are hesitant to give him another one.
Meanwhile, Luka has been close multiple seasons and will likely have another good year. Wemby is probably going to be better next season. So I would really be surprised if it was someone else.
I think it’s going to be Luka next season if he puts up similar stats or even better ones. The voters will decide it’s finally “his turn”. They might overlook Wemby due to age or something.
IMO There are genuinely 5 or 6 players that could genuinely win it next year, the league is in a very good spot. There are certainly front runners but there’s multiple players where it wouldn’t be a huge shock.
Have people that make comments like this have seen the standings lately? For fuck sake the Spurs are 2 games behind OKC. Reminder that one team is the defending champs and the other missed the playoffs last year.
At the current rate both teams will finish between 2-3 games of each other. So at this point it should be more than obvious that standings shouldn’t enter a discussion of MVP between Shai & Wemby.
Between those two and Jokic or Luka? Then yes you included standings in your argument. But for Shai vs Wemby you compare them by stats and stats only. Shai has the better offense and monster efficiency but Wemby has the monstrous defense.
It is pretty unprecedented to have a season as good as okc is having with the injuries they’re having
That is why for me, the standings do matter.
When they release the voting results it’s going to be all over the place
Lowe said prediction models have it at about 70% chance Thunder, 30% Spurs. The Thunder have just a 2 game lead and much harder closing schedule.
But I’d agree even if the Spurs get the top spot by a game or 2, Shai probably still wins it. (The consistency (20 pt streak) and 3000 extra minutes, etc. make the difference.) So Vic’s real odds should probably still be just 15-20%.
It’s Shai but the debate is fun if you just talking. It’s cool To advocate for who you think should win it, some people just take it too seriously
Love it because the Clippers are dumb for trading him. They aren’t ridiculed enough for trading a future MVP
I think the Thunder not getting the first seed is way more plausible than you think. But even if they end up as the #2 seed he should be MVP. And if he isnt, it should be Jokic.
The remaining 8 games for the Thunder include Knicks, Pistons, Nuggets and Lakers x2. They also have the Clippers who are kind of a wildcard at the moment.
The remaining 8 games for the Spurs has the Nuggets twice as their most notable opponent. Also having the Clippers.
Well if the mvp voting and result is consistent you never get it on back to back seasons when you improve from your original mvp stats and production duh
IMO if Shai wins I think it should be more or less because of personal stats.
Spurs went from 34-48 to more or less equal to OKC.
Wendy’s impact on their record is insane.
The only way Shai is clear and cut mvp to me is because his numbers are objectively better.
Wendy’s only claim is his defensive impact.
Thunder have dealt with way more injuries
Yeah I can see that putting Shai over the edge but I dont see that being a “clear cut” reason why he wins over Wemby. The point differential is more of a differentiator IMO.
Bro said Wendy’s
Sga is respectfully the 4th of the 4 and I don’t understand how anyone could think otherwise if you wanna give the award to the best player on the best team then sure but that’s not what the mvp is and all the other 3 have significantly impacted there team in much more significant way. Jokic is literally averaging a 28 point triple double on better efficiency than sga, Luka is dragging the worst roster of the 4 leading the league in points and they have the third seed rn( my pick), and wemby is defensive impact is maybe the greatest we have ever seen and there’s really still people like you out here who want to reward sga with an mvp for playing on easily the best team in the nba it’s insane how you can call yourself a basketball fan at all.
One of the most efficient 30 point seasons ever
Tied for the most clutch PPG in a season (2017 Russ)
1sf in a bunch of impact metrics
Broke a Wilt streak
One of the most injured teams in the NBA, yet still the 1 seed
Consistently been top 1 or 2 in the race the entire season
He clearly has the cleanest case
Russ having the record for most clutch ppg is so tuff 🔥
Hali is a real one. I’ll always regret that the chip had to come at the cost of his achilles.
I always get a bit annoyed when people act like if he didn’t get injured the Thunder were guaranteed to lose, but I can also admit we missed out on (possibly) one of the most exciting game 7s in a LONG time. Ton of respect for Hali and the Pacers. We deserve a rematch in the future.
The big argument is how good we were when he scored over 20. We have like a 95% win rate. Which was just an indicator for how insanely hard it was to stop us when he was hot and going to the hoop. He was at 12 already.
He was at 9, but it’s very true that when Hali scores like that with confidence we beat anybody
I’ve seen us lose twice in the past two years(not this year) when we played a good Pacer game. One was Jokic being flawless and one was that Ant game where he blocked (and fouled) Nesmith at the end of OT.
closest indicator of how Hali (and the team) would have performed was Game 7 vs the Knicks in MSG in 2024.
Eerily, Hali started the 1Q similarly too.
The Hali just hits a different when it comes to high pressure moments… and Game 7 would have been that.
We would have had an absolutely banger of a Game 7 that no one will forget…
but then again, no one will forget it either coz of how everyone felt sick to their stomach after the injury, no thanks to ESPN showing it over and over and over again.
Carmelo said the players know who the MVP is anyway
The same players who voted Haliburton the most overrated?
I trust the players opinion more than the average moron, but they have the same biases/grudges as everyone else.
Hindsight is 20⁄20, haliburton’s rise in the playoffs wasn’t predicted or expected by anyone at all, players fans coaches or media
Hindsight isn’t 20⁄20 when he was giving the same production for his team all season that year. Saying he isn’t an mvp candidate is one thing. But voting him the MOST overrated player in the LEAGUE, isn’t hindsight 20⁄20. It’s just proving this dudes point that players themselves have biases.
Yeah I’m sure you had the pacers going to the finals on your playoff bracket prediction
The right take, the propaganda barrage the last few days smells fishy
I can’t wait to watch Laker fans meltdown when Shai wins MVP and separate his career further from Luka. His fans don’t even care about him winning MVP, they only care about him not being in the top 3 lmao
Luka no rings or MVP but 12 first team all nbas in his career about to hit like crack
No one has ever done this as well lol. Jerry West and Elgin Baylor each had 10 1sts and no MVP. After those two, you have to go all the way down to Rick Barry, George Gervin, and Luka with 5.
Schayes and Mikan had 6, but the award didn’t exist for most of their primes. Gervin and Barry spent time in the ABA.
Karl Malone made 8 1sts before winning MVP on his 9th 1st. So Luka still has time.
Yea because it’s going to take all time robbery to keep Luka from winning mvp at least once, he’s the best scorer in the league by far
This is a bizarre take, how are you predicting a future robbery when he’s yet to have an MVP worthy season? All it takes is one person to have a better season than him, just look at Jerry West…
He’s already had 2 mvp worthy seasons, this year and 2024
You genuinely think he deserves it over Jokic in 2024 and SGA this year? btw in 2024 he got a total of 4 first place votes, Jokic got 79.
Putting up good looking box scores doesn’t make you the best scorer
I mean that’s impressive as hell lmao
is it normal to have this much vitriol for an opposing fan base? Am I just not a big enough fan?
He should just be hoping the Nuggets can make it back to another chip lol
I’m lowkey fine with 1. Lotta all time teams and players get zero
Oh no we only won one championship how will I survive :(
No you’re fine a lot of sports fans just attach their own sense of self worth to how their favorite teams and players perform. And like to see others put down lol.
There are a few fanbases who hate the lakers as much as they like their own team and the nuggets are one
It is hilarious
Okay Mike Malone.
You “can’t wait” for people you don’t even know to “meltdown.” Some life.
Wait till this guy learns it’s possible to know fans of other teams
Congrats on missing the point. Can’t wait for you to graduate 8th grade.
Yet here you are arguing with an 8th grader which makes you?
Arguing? Or making a point? SAT will be rough for you ma boy
Clearly you need to take it again seeing how much college failed you (but from this conversation highly doubt you did)
🤓 “clearly…” yikes lol
Thanks for confirming my doubt you can’t comprehend words above a 2nd grade reading level
“Proving my doubt” 😂
Rent free. Like anyone would be upset that the best player on the best team won the MVP, be for real.
You haven’t spent much time on this subreddit, have you?
The people who spend time on this subreddit spend way too much time on this subreddit
*And Jokic
Once Jokic is gone yall will go back to irrelevancy
Such weird behavior you’re displaying right now. Obsessive.
Shai about to overtake Jokic on the all time list as well.
Hali wants Shai and OKC to stay on top so the revenge tour will be sweeter.
This is the only correct answer, no matter how loud and whiny Luka fans are getting.
Huh? Have some shame and talk about Wemby fans as well.
This subreddit has been filled with Luka fans clamoring for MVP ever since he “dropped” from 2 to 4 even though he never should have been 2 in the first place
Saying that with your flair is nuts
How did the other commenters twist “This is the only correct answer” (“this” being “Shai is the MVP, Wemby a good runner up”), into… whatever they twisted it into? That’s so confusing
Dumb casual fan
The subtle dig at Wemby/media for campaigning was noted
It wasn’t a dig he said he’d probably do the same if he was in the position lol I can see this whole thing being a little annoying from a okc fan pov but it’s mostly the media making this whole thing bigger than what it is. Wemby was asked a question and he answered it truthfully bc he wants to win mvp and dpoy and he also said he’s going to play until its not a debate.
What? He aint dig him for it at all
Who doesn’t love Tyrese Haliburton. I’m excited to see him in action next year, he’s showed nothing but love to us despite that horrible Game 7. A genuinely good person. League isn’t the same without him playing.
He deserves it undoubtedly
Hali is so damn likable
#THE HALIBAN STRIKES
Bro its so funny that a guy nicknamed The Haliban is such a wholesome mf’er
Without a doubt
Hali is fried 😂
Hali stabbing this sub in the back lmao.
I wouldn’t mind any of Luka, Shai, Wemby or Jokic winning it. Honestly I just don’t want to see Jaylen Brown make All-NBA 1st team. Dude is such a clown.
Luka winning would be wild. His case is recency bias at its finest
Yeah his run is basically just another linsanity run and he’s not the best player in the world since January…
He’s never been the best player in the world and he never will be because he is ass on defense.
But why lol Brown is legit and I’m not even close to a Celtics fan
Just watched a Pacers fan fall to his knees during his shift at the saw mill.
So dumb to allow a white away jersey
What’s the upvote percentage on this one?
If he said Wemby this would be upvoted 10k lmao.
This narrative that Wemby is right there as a consideration is insane and forced.
*Face of the League Tyrese Himaburton
Where does Wemby make his case for MVP? I’m trying to find the video but haven’t found it yet.
Nba hates Luka
Tampering
Can we get more graphics on the screen please 🙏
1,000 % AGREE 👍!
I feel like I’ve been stabbed in the heart!
Jalen Johnson
I gotta respect Halli. I used to think he was a bit overrated and soft, but he shut me up 🤫 in the 2025 EC Finals series against my Knicks. I gotta to admit, bro is the truth. Any star player who has ice in their veins in the clutch, especially in the playoffs, is a different breed. This is why I’m so glad my Knicks have Brunson, who is a straight late game killer.
Dudes like James Harden and to a lesser extent Jayson Tatum, I see them as studio gangsters. You look at that first Game 1 in the 2024 NBA Finals, Jalen Brown carried that game for Boston. He played better than JT in Game 2 also. Tatum cooked the rest of the series, when the pressure wasn’t as intense. Harden has just been a perennial postseason disaster 🤦🏾♂️. A FMVP is the only thing that could salvage his playoff legacy at this point. A superteam with him, Spider Mitchell and Lebron in Cleveland is the last train for him 🚉
the Haliban has committed another atrocity
Weird way to spell Luka.
As a casual the past few seasons and just box score watching, can anyone explain to me unbiased why Shai is that much more of a lock to win it than Luka? Is it strictly due to defense and efficiency?
There’s 7 for you
Consistency too. That streak might not mean much on it’s own but combined with his efficiency it’s undeniable consistent impact.
Add in his clutch points despite sitting out a bunch of 4ths, lack of turnovers and the fact that he did most of this getting doubled constantly.
I still think “outplayed significantly” is too simplified of a term given that Shai was facing a much easier defense, but it’s splitting hairs at this point
Ur right but considering that as of right now it’s the only h2h they’ve played it gets more weight
Shai faced a much easier defense in part because of Luka and Luka faced an incredible defense because Shai is a great defender
That’s only a small part of it, Luka with Shai’s supporting cast would be a better defensive team than Shai with Luka’s supporting cast.
Can I ask where you find that injury stat? I know OKC has been through it this season, but I am a bit surprised Denver wouldn’t be up there too; were down 1-3 starters for like 2-3 months
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1py68b1/most_injured_teams_by_value_missed_m_dallas_374/
There’s also an image I have saved from a poster in /nbadiscussion (can’t post images here) where they used EPM and EWA to calculate how many wins teams have missed out on due to injuries. Denver I think was borderline 9-10 if I remember correctly, although it seemed way worse - I was also surprised they were so low.
Back when I saw a graphic on it a few months ago y’all were like 5-6 iirc. but take it with a grain of salt
Team Wins
Team achievement, not a single player’s.
Team Impact
Without SGA OKC has a decent winning record, without Luka Lakers have either losing record or 50%. Seems like Luka has bigger impact.
Defense
Ok, I’ll give you this one, although Luka has improved his defense.
Efficiency
Slightly better efficiency compared to Luka, but Luka scores more.
Clears all advanced metrics
Not really, Jokic clears couple of biggies, like PER and VORP, Luka clears usage %, SGA clears win shares, but that comes in a large part from playing in a top team who are winning convincingly even without him.
Kept his team in the #1 seed while being the 3rd most injured team in the league (the only team in the top 10 injured to have a playoff spot btw)
First of all, again, it is a team achievement. Also it is important which players were injured and when. I mean Nikola Topic missed more than half a season, and it’s not like he is an important player in rotation. I’d argue Nuggets had a lot worse problems with injuries this season with Jokic, CB, Cam Johnson, Watson and especially Gordon missing many games.
Outplayed Luka significantly in their first matchup (31 to 19 iirc)
One mtch at the beggining of a season with home court advantage is really not a good sample.
“Slightly better efficiency” and Shai’s having the most efficient 30ppg season ever but it’s cool. Also, usage isn’t a positive or negative metric, nor is it advanced. We’re not talking about Jokic, we’re talking about Luka vs Shai. Lakers are 6-6 without Luka and 8-4 without Shai, so a 2 win difference. And for games missed, I’m not including Topic OR Sorber, which basically discounts your entire argument. Finally, Shai has the highest on/off half court offense, so him absolutely carrying OKC’s offense with JDub, Hart and Chet out for numerous stretches (and Ajay for a whole month) really speaks more to Shai than it does to the team. But please, by all means discredit his historic season because you’d rather see Luka win MVP over him.
There are lots of 7 foot players
No one is doing what Wemby is doing
There are lots of 6’6 players.
No one is doing what Shai is doing.
This argument can literally be made for every MVP candidate
You can’t name other players who are similar to Shai……… (rolls eyes)
6’6 hyper efficient combo guard who was a plus defender and elite midrange scorer and generational finisher? Best player on the best team in the league? Generationally good ball security for a 30 ppg scorer? At 28 has an MVP, ring and FMVP? Gee I wonder who Shai reminds you of..
The homer bias 🤦🏽♂️
Wemby is unlike anyone 7’
He has to be trolling. Like no doubt SGA is in the conversation, but he’s picking him to get an internet reaction