Where does my GOAT Derrick White rank?

Good catch on the ESPN one, I’ll update that

But did you watch the games!?! /s

Shai’s defense is good, too. It’s just not necessary for him to give 110% on every defensive play because he has 8 other guys who will do that all game long.

They become way better defensively without him. And they do just fine offensively. They literally compete with contenders.

You remove every star of every team in the league and OKC are still at the top of the west.

Shai is special but there’s absolutely no denying that he’s one of the stars in the league that benefits from a “superstar whistle”. It ain’t his fault but that’s relevent to me in a discussion for best player.

I don’t even think he has an argument over Jokic.

Additionally if you want to convince yourself that wemby deserves mvp, you have to account for the fact that sga has provided his team 344 more minutes of basketball (around 10-12 more games) while leading in every impact metric. Wemby is a generational player and is most likely going to start stacking up mvps in the next years, but sga has had one of the greatest seasons of basketball ever

Soon as he starts getting a normal whistle and people are actually allowed to guard him his efficiency will massively drop and he’ll never be in another serious MVP conversation.

Who has ever said defense doesn’t count in the MVP? Offense matters more but it is still a factor and to your point I think why SGA is gonna win by a landslide.

I’m an SGA fan too and think he’s the best player in league currently. But it’ll be short lived as much as I hate it because wemby will be overtaking the nba. It’s gonna be a gap between him and everyone else while they fight for 2nd place we haven’t seen this since prime LeBron fucking James.

Kenny Atkinson is a believer of the sheets

You can’t add value when you’re on the bench.

That said, SGA has only played 19 more minutes than Jokic for the season, so that’s not really a factor here.

It’s much more of an issue for Wemby and Doncic. Doncic has played 500 more minutes than Wemby.

Yeah. WAR makes things a “counting stat”. We need more impact-driven stat.

I think it’s obvious but Brian Scalabrine just went on the Zach Lowe pod and claimed Wemby was by far the most impactful player in the league so anything can happen at this point

The narrative is a littler muddied if his team loses the #1 seed and it’s to the guy who beat them four times. LeBron lost out to Rose in 2011 under similar circumstances.

But yes, SGA has the cleanest argument by far

Yeah I agree with this. I think in totality Shai’s impact has been stronger this year but you could maybe talk me into Wemby; the problem is you’d have to argue Wemby’s impact so far exceeds Shai’s that him playing less games and being on a harsh minute restriction for ~15% of his season doesn’t matter and I don’t think you can argue a gap that large. He’ll be a pretty big favorite for next season though, wouldn’t be shocked if it was -150 or lower

Another way to look at it is that the Spurs have won 22 out of 23 with him playing those reduced minutes, so evidently he creates enough value that he can afford to sit longer. The Spurs are also fairly pedestrian when he sits, so they’re building gigantic leads with him and coasting on them to victory. He’s also come up big in those clutch moments where they fail to coast.

It’s not “Carry Job of the Year”

These are all cumulative. 

Jokic actually does worse in the rate versions of these metrics.

• EPM: drops from 2nd to 3rd
• LEBRON: drops from 1st to 2nd
• LAKER: stays 2nd
• Net Points: drops from 2nd to 3rd

He was topping EPM before his injury

The Bball Index stat I used is LEBRON. Couldn’t find a WAR equivalent for Darko, if you know where that is lmk. And basically all of these stats incorporate rapm

Net rating isn’t an advanced stat. It is a simple scoreboard metric with no stabilizers for teammates, shooting, or other noise.

Rate stats

I think Shai wins this year but get ready for that fatigue next year. And also get ready for the “why hasnt fatigue hit him yet” as he loses multiple MVP’s due to fatigue. Yes, people are stupid.

This race has consolidated around those 4 players so I just stopped when all 4 of them had been listed. I didn’t think showing Kawhi’s or Mitchell’s rankings would be helpful when they’re obviously not winning it

BBall Index’s Sum WAR is using LEBRON and weighting it for games/minutes played. All of these stats (besides maybe ESPN’s net points, the way that’s tracked is a little vague) incorporate on/off into them also

LMAO deliberately not including the more relevant advanced stats like LEBRON

He included LEBRON (it’s from BB-Index).

on/off numbers, and plus-minus

Plus/minus is a component of on/off, and on/off (after being adjusted for teammate and opponent quality) is a component of EPM and LEBRON.

This is like complaining he didn’t include TS% and TS Add.

On/off, plus minus are not advanced stats.

Shai has been the best player by a fair margin per EPM this season. In actual EPM WAR, the epm stat for awards, which is what you’ve accomplished over the season taking into account injuries, Wemby is 4th and is far behind Shai. 

1. Shai 17
2. Jokic 15.5
3. Doncic 14.2
4. Wemby 13.5