CloudConductor | Pacers

450 | 4 hours ago

Thank god everyone has full trust in the nba to not abuse these types of powers

_Meece_ | Lakers

68 | 4 hours ago

When has the NBA ever abused their powers.

Remember they can straight up remove owners and their FO! Silver has done both already.

MrFishAndLoaves | Pelicans

26 | 4 hours ago

Cries in Chris Paul

Own_Result3651

16 | 4 hours ago

Cries in Sam hinkie

_Meece_ | Lakers

4 | 4 hours ago

This is what I was referring to, Silver can remove shitty FOs if he wants to and has done so in the past.

Own_Result3651

10 | 4 hours ago

Yes though shitty is a matter of perspective. Shitty for Adam silver at least. Hinkie’s vision was really good and ruined by the actual shitty FO of Colangelo

PewpyDewpdyPantz | Raptors

1 | 32 minutes ago

Hinkie’s vision was shit. Let’s suck every year to get a high draft pick? MCW, Embiid and Okafor is what he ended up with. He also traded Jrue Holiday for Nerlens Noel and another top 10 pick which he used on Elfrid Payton which he then somehow made even worse by turning that into Dario Saric. Hinkie didn’t get ruined by anyone. He was an idiot from the get go. The only good pick he ever made didn’t even see the court until after he got the boot.

Own_Result3651

1 | 23 minutes ago

He drafted Dario saric and signed Robert Covington undrafted. Both of those guys would become huge for the sixers in the form of getting them jimmy butler. You understand Dario saric was huge for the sixers? You understand how fantastic of a draft pick that is that it could be turned into tradeable assets for Jimmy butler? What are you talking about acting as if that wasn’t a great move.

Also signed tj McConnell who would’ve been huge for them off the bench for years with Embiid if ya know… th guys who replaced him didn’t refuse to resign him because they had checks notes shake Milton in the system.

Also why would it be his fault that he didn’t get to see Embiid on the court? Like what kind of chirp is that? “He didnt even see Embiid on the court” yeah no shit what does that have to do with literally anything.

And yes his vision gave the sixers an mvp level player and a first overall pick an assets to get a start player once Embiid was on the court and ready to compete. He put the sixers in fantastic position moving forward in th few years he had to work with. Everything that came after is why the sixers never panned out.

You’re just talking silly honestly.

PewpyDewpdyPantz | Raptors

1 | 16 minutes ago

Did Hinkie make the trade for Jimmy Butler? Elton Brand was able to turn trash (Saric & Covington) into treasure.

The fact that you have to reach for names like TJ McConnell and Robert Covington really shows how good of a GM Hinkie was. Enjoy your fantasy world lol.

Own_Result3651

1 | 12 minutes ago

Why would he have been able to make the trade when he was fired before tbh could come to fruition? Are you out of your damn mind? Like I’m being so serious.

Bean turned trash into treasure? Give me a break lmao. Dario had it come off a Roy finalist season an a playoff in which he was the sixers second best player in round 2 behind Embiid and Covington was an all defense level starter both of which were staring on 50 win team and both of which were in their early to mid 20s.

Brand benefitted off Hinkie bringing those pieces together and then literally squandered it less than 6 months later.

Like are you out of your goddamn mind

[deleted]

-1 | 3 hours ago

[deleted]

Own_Result3651

1 | 3 hours ago

Brand’s sixers had terrible vision. He moved jimmy butler for Josh Richardson and signed Al Horford and Tobias Harris to ridiculous contracts. He was gifted a crazy good prospect pool built in large part to Sam Hinkie and completely squandered it in one offseason. about as poorly managed as he could have possibly done.

Hinkie knew he had Embiid in the back pocket and was using his injury time to build a prospect pool. And I really don’t see how that’s even an arguable idea now that we see what okc has been able to build when Adam Silver decided not to tamper with it since okc isn’t a big enough franchise to care about.

You’d have to be too young to not remember okafor as a prospect who happened to join the nba at a time when the nba was comoeltely changed and he happened to be unfortunate enough to be part of that. Remember everyone thinking he was crazy for giving away MCW? No one apologized when he was right.

Hinkie built the system that brought Embiid and a number one pick overall to Philly and was also the one who acquired both Dario saric and Robert Covington who were key assets in trading for big time talent jimmy butler which brand then ruined 6 months later.

And why would literally any team hire a front office manager that the commissioner hated so much that he forced an replaced him?

Artimusjones88 | Raptors

1 | 14 minutes ago

Silver does nothing without blessings from his bosses, the owners.

He can’t and doesn’t do things unilaterally.

MontanaStevens

3 | 2 hours ago

How did cooper flag end up in Dallas again?

Kashmir33 | NBA

2 | 2 hours ago

I think the Mavs drafted him.

c10bbersaurus | Grizzlies

1 | 43 minutes ago

When it came to using their powers to stop injury management, they didn’t use their powers enough (they didn’t fine and otherwise penalize violating teams often enough).

Artimusjones88 | Raptors

1 | 15 minutes ago

Silver = Owners

NandoDeColonoscopy

0 | an hour ago

Silver has done both already.

This is not actually true. The league never took a vote on either Sterling or Sarver. With Sterling, his wife won control of the team by having the courts declare him mentally incompetent, then sold the team. And Sarver was forced out because of legal proceedings against him by the minority owners, because sponsors were pulling out and him not selling would violate his fiduciary duty to the other owners.

Silver was absolutely applying pressure, and at least with Sterling likely had the votes if it came to that, but the league was not the deciding factor in either case

aimee829 | Pacers

32 | 4 hours ago

pacers and jazz must have really struck a nerve of a “league source”. they must have been counting on the jazz pick, and threatened that pacers are getting an additional weapon for next year

edit: and it pissed them off when the fines did nothing to stop them. 💪

[deleted]

-1 | 4 hours ago

[deleted]

aimee829 | Pacers

4 | 4 hours ago

coz its our first time? takes some getting used to. respect to the tanking team fans. they’re loyal af

dont really care about herb simon pays the fine tho.

_Meece_ | Lakers

0 | 4 hours ago

Then why even mention it, it’s like Laker fans moaning about Magic’s fines. Who cares and if they don’t get fined again, the NBA just gives them the money back.

Whole bunch of nothing.

coz its our first time? takes some getting used to. respect to the tanking team fans. they’re loyal af

Huh? You think this is the first time the Pacers have been fined?

But yeah again, why do Pacer fans get so upset over this. Like they legit think these rules are being made to address them, you guys are like Raptor fans these days. Awful fanbase.

Ocarina3219 | Cavaliers

5 | an hour ago

They haven’t even punished the Clippers for blatant cap circumvention and they really think that the arbitrary judgement of Adam Silver is going to stop teams from tanking lmfao.

Artimusjones88 | Raptors

1 | 12 minutes ago

Again, Silver does nothing without approval of those who pay him.

captain_ahabb | Lakers

5 | 4 hours ago

I’m not sure what incentive they would really have to abuse this.

StardustGeyser | Pacers

40 | 4 hours ago

One reason is to eliminate small-market teams as landing spots for high lottery talent in favor of floundering large market teams. For example, this season the only two teams that have been financially penalized for tanking were the Jazz and Pacers. If this rule was currently in effect, they could move them back in the draft allowing a team like the Nets to have better odds. I don’t really see why this would be considered outlandish considering the league’s existing slant towards large-markets

SwarthySphere87 | Nets

11 | 4 hours ago

I sat through a 12-70 season to watch them end up with the #3 overall pick. The NBA will not use rules like this to benefit of the Nets

StardustGeyser | Pacers

9 | 4 hours ago

Totally understand (I live in Brooklyn and am well aware of the Nets’ plight), but fundamentally, it’s in the league’s best interest to have another successful New York team. Even if it’s not expressly supporting them, preventing small market teams from jumping would definitely help

captain_ahabb | Lakers

1 | 3 hours ago

There’s too many small market teams for the NBA to use this rule to prevent them from jumping up to #1.

Ingramistheman

1 | 3 hours ago

They were in New Jersey at the time. I know they’re close, but Brooklyn is a whole different story.

captain_ahabb | Lakers

2 | 4 hours ago

One reason is to eliminate small-market teams as landing spots for high lottery talent in favor of floundering large market teams.

How?

Are you suggesting Silver is going to be taking away 5-6 lottery picks every season? Do you think the owners of the small market teams would tolerate that?

StardustGeyser | Pacers

8 | 4 hours ago

I never once said that Silver would be taking away 5-6 lottery picks every year nor implied it in my comment. Additionally, I never said that small market teams would tolerate that, and there’s already existing friction between small market FOs and the current system (e.g., Presti’s comments and vote on the adjusted lottery odds). There’s no reason to think they would be on board with that either.

All I’m saying is that the league benefits significantly if large market teams are successful, and so they’re incentivized to implement a system that allows them to continue to aid them.

Nuclearsunburn | Heat

9 | 3 hours ago

Yep imagine a scenario where there’s a Wemby to Brandon Miller drop off in talent between 1 and 2, and say Utah has the first pick and the Lakers or Knicks have the second pick….all of a sudden Utah “tanked” and the generational player is in LA, NY, or Boston

captain_ahabb | Lakers

1 | 3 hours ago

That’s not how the lottery works…

captain_ahabb | Lakers

0 | 4 hours ago

I never once said that Silver would be taking away 5-6 lottery picks every year nor implied it in my comment.

I know dawg, I’m saying that’s how many teams Silver would have to punish to be certain the #1 pick would go to a big market team.

Remember, there’s like 3x as many small market teams. So every lottery is going to have a lot of small market teams in it.

There’s no reason to think they would be on board with that either.

Well they’re about to vote on it so we’ll see. There’s more small market teams so if they’re against it, the vote will fail.

All I’m saying is that the league benefits significantly if large market teams are successful

Sure.

so they’re incentivized to implement a system that allows them to continue to aid them.

This system doesn’t allow the NBA to aid a team though. It only allows them to harm a team.

StardustGeyser | Pacers

7 | 3 hours ago

I think you’re misconstruing my point. I’m not saying that the league needs to guarantee that every top prospect goes to a large market team, and to achieve that, the league would be pushing back every small market to the end of the lottery. My point is that they could do it with a few (e.g., my previous comment of the Jazz and Pacers before) to benefit a handful of teams.

Take last years draft for example. If Silver decided that the Jazz were blatantly tanking and pushed them to the end of the lottery, it would give Washington, Brooklyn, Phoenix, and Chicago opportunity to jump them and get Ace Bailey. Punishing a small market team in this fashion indirectly aids a competing big market team.

They don’t have to do this too significantly, just enough every draft that struggling big markets jump a couple spots, which over time would migrate talent away from small markets.

Ingramistheman

4 | 3 hours ago

I totally understood what you were saying from the get-go. Redditors just like to argue

captain_ahabb | Lakers

-1 | 3 hours ago

If Silver decided that the Jazz were blatantly tanking and pushed them to the end of the lottery, it would give Washington, Brooklyn, Phoenix, and Chicago opportunity to jump them and get Ace Bailey. Punishing a small market team in this fashion indirectly aids a competing big market team.

That’s two big market teams (and Brooklyn barely counts) vs 3 small markets.

Punishing a small market team in this fashion indirectly aids a competing big market team.

Somewhat? I guess you’re going from 1 in 5 to 1 in 4.

You’re going to have a lottery filled with small market teams basically every year though. Like right now in the bottom 8 there’s only 2 big market teams (and one is Brooklyn which barely counts).

NandoDeColonoscopy

1 | an hour ago

Honestly, they should’ve removed the Jazz’ pick this year, and dared Ryan Smith to sue. What they did with benching guys in-game was so egregious that it can’t be allowed to happen

acey901234 | 76ers

3 | 4 hours ago

Same incentive to taking in gambling sponsors

captain_ahabb | Lakers

0 | 4 hours ago

Who is going to pay the league to get team X’s draft pick revoked?

HeyItsChase | Pacers

1 | 3 hours ago

Uh money? Let me save you some time and research. Its always about money.

captain_ahabb | Lakers

1 | 3 hours ago

How much money from who for what purpose?

HeyItsChase | Pacers

1 | an hour ago

For who? The league and league affiliates. Bigger markets = more money.

What purpose? Money. Thats the purpose. Thats always the purpose

captain_ahabb | Lakers

0 | an hour ago

So you’re suggesting that the league is going to bribe itself? How does that make sense?

Penguinho

87 | 4 hours ago

Absolutely not. This is a horrible, horrible fucking idea. The commissioner should not have the ability to issue massive unilateral penalties based on vibes.

Dazzling-Slide8288

17 | 4 hours ago

I’ve said from the jump that this is all going to make everything worse. Seems to be prescient so far.

Kiriegloom | Bulls

8 | 4 hours ago

People think he can anyways, so fuck it. You have a bad faith interpretation of what’s being proposed as it is. I’m here to watch this sub burst into tears

_Meece_ | Lakers

6 | 4 hours ago

He already can, the CBA gives the commish all kinds of powers, just look into what the Commish can do about the Clips situation.

A lot of league punishments are commissioner discretion based.

kont3

3 | 4 hours ago

How the Clips situation will be resolved will be very telling. For now I’m operating under the assumption that they’re either gonna sweep it under the rug or just a slap on the wrist.

_Meece_ | Lakers

3 | 4 hours ago

If that was the case, there would not be any investigation.

The severity of punishment for cap circumvention is up to the commish. Purely and simply an endorsement that is deemed excessive can lead to picks being taken or contracts being voided.

kont3

1 | 4 hours ago

I don’t know if you’re following Pablo Torre’s reporting but apparently it is mandatory that the investigation is funded by the team involved (the Clippers). I bet you can see the conflict of interest there.

_Meece_ | Lakers

2 | 3 hours ago

Yes they have to pay the bill, they don’t handle the investigation.

What is the conflict of interest? That would only be if the Clippers were the ones required to handle the investigation.

NBA does the investigation and goes… here’s the bill.

dwrek24 | Spurs

2 | 4 hours ago

Maybe not you. But a lot of people in here didnt realize their complaints meant Adam Silver would need to enter his Roger Goodell era which everyone hated at the time but apparently now he’s the “best commissioner” in sports.

Congrats everyone Silver is assuming wartime powers

LaMelonBallz | Hornets

1 | an hour ago

Ainge: We got the first pick of the draft

Lord Silver: Wrong kind of draft buddy

egg-land | DET

1 | 3 hours ago

If this is done correctly it would look more like a committee of unbiased smart people basing punishments on predetermined guidelines and the severity of the offence, combined with stuff like repeated abuse, individual investigations, etc. The punishment would also be communicated clearly when issued with clear reasons laid out for people to analyze and critique.

This is the best response to the tanking issue to be completely honest and similar to the result I came to after putting a lot of thought into this.

Now if the nba can execute it, that’s a different question but let’s wait to criticize them before we actually see them fuck up please because this is good news

nacholibre711 | Pelicans

1 | 3 hours ago

Yeah at the end of the day I think some level of subjectivity is unavoidable. Some unbiased entity will just have to make the final call if they actually want to issue punishments. There’s no metric you could put in place to be able to say with certainty if a team is tanking or not.

A team can go 0-82 and actually just be that bad. Another team can finish with 30 or 40+ wins, but tank the last 10 games of the season once they realized they are missing the playoffs.

SheLuvsMyQuickScopez | Trail Blazers

1 | 3 hours ago

Probably not based on vibes, probably based on teams like the Jazz sitting 22 year olds for “rest”

_Meece_ | Lakers

0 | 4 hours ago

The commish already can do that… sometimes feels like it’s everybody’s first day watching Pro sports.

Round_Clock_3942

-1 | 4 hours ago

The commissioner is an employee of the 30 owners, so anything he does implicitly has the backing of the majority of that group. Also, this is not based on vibes. There were literally multiple games where Utah explicitly subbed out their best players in close games including ones where they had the lead, to make sure they lose and improve their draft stock. That’s not a “Well, they claim it’s an injury. We can’t confirm” thing. It’s pointing at the league office and laughing that they can’t do shit about even straight up fixing.

relax336 | Lakers

69 | 4 hours ago

Could this not have stopped tanking just on its own?

cleo22270 | Heat

40 | 4 hours ago

Would likely lead to a lot more “elective” season-ending surgeries for starters on tanking teams.

This rule would mostly impact the blatant lineup manipulation situations (AKA the Jazz pulling starters in the 4th quarter when they have a lead)

That specific situation with the Jazz was the catalyst for this reform, and that’s what the league wants to make an example of with these punishments.

Salt-Dragonfruit-157 | Heat

21 | 3 hours ago

Why are the Jazz getting called out constantly but the Wizards are playing their star C sheltered minutes every game.

Genuinely do people remember seeing Sarr play after like 3 mins into the 3rd for Bam’s 83? I get calling the Jazz out but there’s a team doing a very similar thing and getting next to no attention

dumpgubblin | Pacers

5 | an hour ago

Pulling starters in the 4th quarter impacts a lot of bets. Moneylines, spreads, player props, etc all get ruined in the 4th if a team benches starters suddenly.

Its the only reason it was the catalyst this year, because it affected the gambling sponsors. There have been sustained, multi year tanks from multiple orgs (Utah, Philly, Brooklyn, Washington) that weren’t discussed 1/10th as much as this singular season.

(Also Silver is choosing tanking as something performative to “fix” because the Clips will receive an extremely light or no punishment at all)

Salt-Dragonfruit-157 | Heat

1 | an hour ago

Wizards have been doing the same shit almost all season. That’s my point why are we constantly looking at Utah when a just as egregious if not more situation is happening in the other conference?

Utah traded for and shut down one star Wizards did it to two. Utah has been sitting starters in the 4th, Wizards are doing it in the 3rd. Both teams have the argument of letting their young guys play but it doesn’t hold up with the wizards when you see them sitting Sarr, Bilal, Riley etc.

samurairocketshark | Suns

2 | an hour ago

Because Utah’s tanking got way more coverage by the media. Silver just wants the most public fires put out

jbh731

2 | 39 minutes ago

I think it’s just because Utah have been doing this for a few years now. They’ve sort of become the poster child for it so naturally the Jazz name is always brought up when tanking is mentioned.

Johnthelion17 | Jazz

1 | 25 minutes ago

This is like the second year of the Jazz actually tanking. Idk why everyone thinks we’re in this perpetual 10 year tank lmao

Our first two years post Rudy and Donovan we never really tank tanked:

2022-23: Pre Trade deadline we were 27-29. We traded half our team and ended up 37-45 and had the 9th pick.

2023-24: Pre Trade Deadline record 26-27. Again traded a lot of dudes, Lauri got injured, and we ended 31-51, rewarded with the 10th pick.

Neither year were we doing anything egregious. We were just mediocre. We fully embraced the tank last year, and are committing to it this year to try to keep our pick. Wizards on the other hand have practically been horrible/doing this shit for decades lol

violagoyf | Wizards

1 | 26 minutes ago

This all started last season.

The Wizards were genuinely awful last year, and they were heavily incentivized to play their young draft picks as they just weren’t going to win that many games anyway. They generally weren’t sitting healthy guys.

The Jazz, meanwhile, were sitting Markkanen and others–essentially tanking like teams are this year.

The Jazz ended up finishing the year with the worst record (one fewer win than the Wizards) specifically because of these tactics, and picked at 5. The Wizards picked 6th.

This year, the Wizards and Jazz really need to lose. If they aren’t among the worst four teams, they risk losing their picks.

So they both started doing what the Jazz did to great success last year, And, because they started it early, so did the other handful of teams who knew they were going to be really bad.

It’s been a backwards arms race. It sucks. I think in a lot of ways it’s inevitable that we’d get here eventually. Protected picks, the potentially historic strength of this draft class, and a handful of teams knowing they were going to be bad right at the start of the season didn’t help, either.

NandoDeColonoscopy

1 | an hour ago

Its the only reason it was the catalyst this year, because it affected the gambling sponsors.

You get that the books win on both sides of the bet, right?

SEJ46 | Jazz

1 | an hour ago

It’s crazy. You’d think the Jazz invented tanking.

Salt-Dragonfruit-157 | Heat

1 | an hour ago

You’d think I was shitting on the Jazz, I’m not.

Ok_Hornet_714

1 | 40 minutes ago

In the case of Sarr that game was his second game back from injury and it was announced beforehand that he would be in a minutes restriction of about 16-20 minutes game

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/basketball/news/wizards-alex-sarr-will-be-limited-sunday/

So it doesn’t seem surprising that he sat halfway through the 3rd playing 20 minutes.

This seems to be a key distinction from the situation with the Jazz when it was not announced that Lauri or JJJ were dealing with minute restrictions.

AffectionateDark9270

6 | 4 hours ago

I mean what proof would they have of surgery if theyre not legitimately injured.

cleo22270 | Heat

17 | 4 hours ago

That’s my point.

A lot of the surgeries that pop up after the trade deadline are procedures for real injuries that could technically wait till the offseason, but tanking teams tell their players to go ahead and do them in-season, but there’s no way for the league to prove that.

That’s why tanking teams will still do this moving forward.

_Meece_ | Lakers

12 | 4 hours ago

I don’t think that’s something the NBA will ever try to address.

It’s largely targeting lineup fuckery. Like you mentioned, Jazz sitting players with a first half lead.

They just want teams to play ball and stop fiddling with shit to be as worse as possible.

Round_Clock_3942

3 | 4 hours ago

I think the intention is that if those players get season ending surgery, then fans know these guys aren’t playing for the rest of the season and their home ticket prices take a massive hit. What the Jazz tried to do is get fans in the door to watch Lauri/JJJ play but still intentionally lose games, which just is straight fixing games.

NuclearGhandi1 | Knicks

4 | 3 hours ago

Also, it gives them more time to get back in shape for the next season. It’s not just a tanking move but a health management one as well

AffectionateDark9270

1 | 4 hours ago

I mean pure not going to find a full proof solution but telling star players to take season ending surgeries when they’re going to want to compete for awards and their next contract isnt going to go over well.

Trollington1372 | Nets

1 | 3 hours ago

And the league shouldn’t be trying to prove that. If I’m a team that’s eliminated from playoff contention, and my star player has an injury that will require surgery, the smart move would be for him to get it as soon as possible to allow him the longest recovery ramp before the next season. NBA should absolutely not be trying to police surgeries that granularly

greenslam | Timberwolves

1 | 2 hours ago

The NBA could set up a rule that all player health reports are reported to league office. Then the league can have a medical team review those log entries. So if the health logs from training camp to trade dead line, and then a player has surgery post dead line, they got their proof.

ThunderBobMajerle | Suns

2 | 2 hours ago

That’s my thought. Why make any changes if Silver has this one simple trick to punish tanking teams?

TributeBands_areSHIT | GSW

1 | 3 hours ago

No

cashappmebitch | Wizards

68 | 4 hours ago

You just know this shit is getting selectively enforced lol. Are you really telling me that Silver would take away the Lakers first round pick?

costanzathegreat | Warriors

15 | 2 hours ago

No, but I can already see the Wizards getting their pick taken away lmao

billcosbyinspace | Celtics

12 | 2 hours ago

I definitely don’t trust the league to make a distinction between tanking and just genuinely being bad. For every team who’s genuinely tanking there’s probably 5 who just legitimately suck ass

Gruelly4v2 | Cavaliers

6 | 2 hours ago

Different level of the sport but to quote Jerry Tarkanian, “The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky they gave Cleveland State another year of probation”

A tanking Knicks team will get a they were really injured and maybe theu could have played so here’s a negligible fine, but the Hornets get draft picks taken and you what, that free agent you signed? His contract is voided.

Foi_ | Knicks

64 | 4 hours ago

what is the definition of tanking. teams can trade all their good players and have a genuinely bad team. obviously they arent trying to compete but is that tanking?

NotVacant | Thunder

31 | 4 hours ago

You just have to play the players you have. If you start sitting people then that’s obviously tanking.

Tall-Dot-607 | Pistons

19 | 4 hours ago

But if youre already eliminated for the playoffs, can you start playing your young talent to get some more game reps in?

ktm5141 | 76ers

14 | 4 hours ago

I think as long as teams don’t do anything egregious, like pull their starters in the 4th with a lead, they should be ok. Either make up an injury (something sort of real and not MPJs “left hamstring awareness”) or play your guys. Just don’t embarrass the league

SpinJitsu259 | Pacers

5 | 4 hours ago

That’s a good point, and I’d hope the league will account for it somehow.

_Meece_ | Lakers

3 | 4 hours ago

They’re directly addressing teams sitting guys halfway through a game.

This is not something anyone cares about.

captain_ahabb | Lakers

2 | 3 hours ago

I think that’s okay as long as there’s buyouts for the veteran guys so they can go to a team that wants to play veterans.

PootieTooGood | Cavaliers

13 | 3 hours ago

We got fined twice in November for resting Darius Garland for rehabilitation, after he came back from his foot injury. He then reinjured that toe. I’m not taking the NBAs word on it

fuzzynavel34 | IND

9 | 4 hours ago

Who makes the determination on player health/availability?

aimee829 | Pacers

4 | 2 hours ago

maybe the league doctors? the same ones that carlisle said were sent to check on Nesmith and if he was willing to take meds to manage the pain… 🤦🏻‍♀️

ARGHETH | GSW

1 | 6 minutes ago

I have 0 trust in the NBA to determine that, considering the Nesmith shit where they didn’t talk to or directly examine him or anyone who examined him.

SpinJitsu259 | Pacers

29 | 4 hours ago

I think those teams would be safe. Just play your best players if they’re healthy (even if your best aren’t very good), and we’re good to go.

DickBottalico | Supersonics

3 | 2 hours ago

Unless you’re the Sixers, and Boston/NY media bitches about it

Spierre3

5 | 4 hours ago

That’s not tanking as long as you aren’t sitting good players in hopes of increasing your draft value ( aka what Utah had been doing for years now)

livefreeordont | 76ers

2 | 4 hours ago

So the process Sixers weren’t tanking?

Hankerpants | Nuggets

-1 | an hour ago

Technically no… At least not the same way the Jazz are. I didn’t like The Process and thought it was bad for basketball, but the way I look at it is they were at least honest. They, at the beginning of the season, traded away any talent they had. Their roster was dog shit but that was known and published to fans. Fans went into the season knowing they were dog shit and could set expectations accordingly. They were trying to get a better draft pick, but did so by offloading what remaining talent they had in exchange for more picks.

Counter that with the Jazz who are keeping talent but refusing to play them (or even worse, pulling them when winning to try and lose).

The Sixers were trying not to win, but the Jazz are trying to lose. It’s a subtle difference, but significant enough that I think it’s worthwhile to view them as separate things.

darthfracas | Wizards

5 | 3 hours ago

That’s the worst part of this, the two worst teams this year are there for different reasons.

Washington has spent the last 5 years getting off two of the worst contracts since 2016, and finally have drafted a young core that could become something.

The Pacers’ were behind the eight ball since 8 minutes into game 7 last June. Combined with Turner’s departure and a severe injury bug to start the year, they never had a chance to gel by going through dozens of lineups. The remaining core from the finals (Nembhard, Nesmith, Mathurin, Toppin, Siakam and McConnell) didn’t play a single game together before Mathurin was traded.

Both teams have one thing in common, a severe injury derailing everything. The Wizards’ trouble can be traced back to Wall’s injury in 2018 and the size of his contract. Bad front office decisions trying to keep winning made things worse. Haliburton’s injury ruined this season for the Pacers. The Pacers FO is a lot better off than the Wizards were a decade ago, so they could bounce back quickly.

So the league could punish a team for one franchise altering injury? That’s some bullshit.

holyhibachi

1 | 3 hours ago

Nobody thinks the wizards are an example of egregious tanking

livefreeordont | 76ers

3 | 4 hours ago

That’s what Hinkie did and everyone agreed that was tanking. He was forced out by the league

captain_ahabb | Lakers

3 | 4 hours ago

The other report specifically says lineup and injury manipulation.

Thehelloman0 | Spurs

3 | 4 hours ago

I imagine they are trying to prevent teams from purposely benching their best players at the end of games so they can lose

CasualRead_43

3 | 4 hours ago

It’s not playing your best players in the 4th quarter of a game in November you were winning by double digits I think where it’s blatant.

fumar | Bulls

2 | 4 hours ago

For now, whatever the Utah Jazz are doing, don’t do that.

Penguinho

1 | 4 hours ago

Teams that are trying to be good in the near future maximizing their chances to be good in the near future is tanking. Teams that have no plan beyond draft pick + max cap space – that’s not tanking and it’s okay.

SplashBandicoot | Knicks

1 | 4 hours ago

Utah, Washington… straight to jail.

_Meece_ | Lakers

1 | 4 hours ago

Sitting healthy vets and good players will be the main one, as that’s something they’re already addressing.

Lineup fuckery, like benching the entire starting lineup in the first half.

Losing on purpose is over. Being bad on purpose is not something anyone can address though.

HeyItsChase | Pacers

1 | 3 hours ago

Our fine earlier in the year was the perfect example. We were not actively tanking at that point. The proof was not efficient

Clemsontigger16

1 | 3 hours ago

The type of ranking the league doesn’t want is obviously sitting or benching starters to lose games.

cgio0 | Lakers

1 | 2 hours ago

Yea like the year Klay was rehabbing and Steph broke his hand. Was that tanking? Steph could have probably played some meaningless games

Would that be defined as tanking though since they did get a top 3 pick

billcosbyinspace | Celtics

1 | 2 hours ago

You could also blow up your dead-end treadmill team and start from scratch, of course you’ll be bad but you’re starting over and building for the future

Dirks_Knee | Mavericks

1 | 2 hours ago

That’s why there needs to be a 2 pronged approach:

Disincentivize the act all together, flattened odds and/or extending the actual lottery means the worst team could actually pick well outside the top 5.
Punitive action if a franchise chooses to throw games anyway.

Local-Finance8389 | Thunder

30 | 4 hours ago

So if the NBA decides a player isn’t really injured and that player goes on to play and exacerbates their injury, who is liable?

kyleb402 | Bucks

15 | 3 hours ago

That’s my question.

Just look at us for example. Giannis has been injured multiple times this year, he is obviously getting traded at the end of the season, and he’s hurt now.

What happens if the league comes in, forces us to play him in meaningless games, and he gets seriously hurt?

We can’t trade him, will probably end up having to pay Giannis coming off a major injury a 4 year max contract, and our future is fucked.

What will our restitution be for that?

Artimusjones88 | Raptors

1 | 5 minutes ago

Just don’t pay. Suck it up and let him walk.

aimee829 | Pacers

8 | 2 hours ago

exactly. that’s what makes coach carlisle’s revelation about the league doctors coming to check on nesmith’s injury so sus. like, really? wasnt that an overreach for the league office?

busche916 | Pacers

21 | 4 hours ago

Arguably worse than tanking are the teams that are just wildly incompetent in their management… what are you going to do about that?

_Meece_ | Lakers

6 | 4 hours ago

Silver removed a GM for poor management already

_just_two_brothers_ | Kings

1 | an hour ago

And he rewarded another with the #1 pick

IsuzuTrooper | Spurs

22 | 4 hours ago

thanks, why isn’t Kawhi suspended yet?

goongoblin113xc | Lakers

1 | 25 minutes ago

He ain’t ever getting suspended

SEAinLA | Supersonics

15 | 4 hours ago

Talk about a great way to lose entire franchise fanbases. They’ll be taking teams from bad with some hope to bad with no hope whatsoever. At that point, why even bother being a fan anymore?

Galt2112 | IND

11 | 4 hours ago

Tanking is essentially the only way small markets can get elite talent.

The NBA is already a league where ¹⁄₂ the teams exist as glorified development squads for the big markets. Eliminating tanking will make that worse.

captain_ahabb | Lakers

10 | 4 hours ago

Tanking is essentially the only way small markets can get elite talent.

Saying this as a Pacers fan is really bizarre to me. The Pacers have never really tanked before this year and they were just in the Finals.

At any rate the issue is teams intentionally distorting how bad they are. Tanking is an obstacle to talent going to truly bad teams. The authentically-bad Kings are potentially going to lose their pick to a team like the inauthentically-bad Jazz who are already way better than the Kings on paper.

Kom1 | Pacers

6 | 3 hours ago

We’ve made 2 NBA finals post-ABA and have never had a number 1 pick. Pacers fans know that punishing tanking hurts small markets because they are a small market who has chosen to literally never tank and paid the price for it. The team goes through 8-10 year stretches where they are the most boring mediocre franchise on Earth because they finish middle of the pack and can’t attract big stars because they are a small market. Just because we got lucky and hit on Hali which no one really saw coming doesn’t mean punishing tanking doesn’t hurt small market teams more than big market teams.

captain_ahabb | Lakers

2 | 3 hours ago

Big market teams tank all the time. I don’t really think there’s a big market/small market angle here.

Kom1 | Pacers

3 | 3 hours ago

Not arguing that isn’t something big markets do as well, I’m saying draft picks are SIGNIFICANTLY more important to small market teams. Big market teams can go out and dangle a lot more in front of free agents then smaller markets can that’s just the way it is. Smaller markets have to rely way more on the draft and the fact is that makes tanking more of an important strategy for smaller market teams. Getting a top 5 pick talent makes signing FAs easier for small market teams.

Siakam doesn’t resign with the Pacers if we don’t get lucky with Hali. Talent begets talent but if you are a small market team it is significantly harder to get that first piece. The fact of the matter is the Pacers got lucky, most teams have to go get that talent in the draft.

captain_ahabb | Lakers

1 | 3 hours ago

The whole point of flattening the odds is to enable teams to build through the draft without having to lose games on purpose.

Kom1 | Pacers

2 | 3 hours ago

Flattening the odds also punishes teams who really are just that bad though. Not all teams are purposely tanking, some really are bad. Does the team who is actually the worst team in the league deserve to have the same amount of odds as a team thats probably won double the amount of games as them.

Also it encourages MORE teams to tank to stay in the bottom 10 instead of less. Instead of the bottom 10 trying to lose to stay in the bottom 4 you will have the whole bottom half of the league tanking once they know they aren’t in contention. You dont think teams that are in the 10-15 range arent going to pull the plug earlier to try and fall into the flattened 8% range?

captain_ahabb | Lakers

1 | 3 hours ago

Flattening the odds also punishes teams who really are just that bad though.

Tanking also hurts teams that are really that bad too. That’s why we need rules like this one to punish teams who manipulate their lineups to lose games.

It’s unfair for the Jazz to have the same odds in the lottery as the Kings or Nets. The Jazz have way more talent on their roster.

Instead of the bottom 10 trying to lose to stay in the bottom 4 you will have the whole bottom half of the league tanking once they know they aren’t in contention

I don’t think that’ll happen because the reward is much less. 8% is basically half of 14%.

Round_Clock_3942

4 | 4 hours ago

It’s funny how the Pacers fans are losing their minds when it’s the Jazz and the Wizards who will suffer the most because of this rule.

Dazzling-Slide8288

4 | 4 hours ago

The Kings being stupid isn’t a workable strategy for every team tho.

_Meece_ | Lakers

1 | 4 hours ago

The NBA is already a league where ¹⁄₂ the teams exist as glorified development squads for the big markets.

Strange to say when the most of the Big markets have not even made it past the 2nd round in the past 25 years.

NBA is all about small markets. Like the West is best right? Yet the West has 3 legit big market teams total, arguably 5 out of 15.

Since 2014.. Spurs, Cleveland, Nugs, Bucks, Thunder have all won titles.

Then there’s teams that made it deep but didn’t get it done, like Pacers, Wolves, Suns.

The Lakers and Celtics are the only consistent big market success story. Everyone else has slight periods of greatness or one off dynasties.

You mean the lottery, tanking is not needed to succeed in the lottery.

JasonMraz4Life | Clippers

1 | 4 hours ago

Indiana traded for Hali and Siakam. OKC traded for SGA. Giannis was pick #15, Jokic was picked in the 2nd round. Cleveland traded for Donavan Mitchell.

I disagree with your premise.

sheJaMyMorant

1 | 2 hours ago

Tanking is a made up word lmao. Just call it what it is. Intentionally losing.

kont3

11 | 4 hours ago

I don’t trust the league with being fair and not playing favourites with big markets. Especially after the Dallas fiasco

kanokari | Timberwolves

9 | 4 hours ago

What a moronic idea. But if it gets rid of silver I’m all for it

RapsareChamps_Suckit | Clippers

1 | 4 hours ago

you’re talking bout the boss here, Chrissy!

Dangerous_Ad5039

4 | 4 hours ago

Taking away their pick completely is the only way teams will stop doing it. Only thing would be is how would that work out? What the draft just be 1 pick less or would that pick just go to another team?

YujiDomainExpansion

5 | 4 hours ago

It would be moved to the back of lottery (14th) or back of the first-round (30th). It wouldn’t be taken away like the Knicks/Bulls second-round picks from tampering and it definitely wouldn’t be given to another team.

Dangerous_Ad5039

0 | 4 hours ago

So who gets the pick? It’s not taking the pick away if the team still gets to pick just later in the round.

RevivalGhost | Pacers

0 | 2 hours ago

Getting rid of the lottery altogether and then saying if you picked in the top 5 in the previous season the best pick you can get is 10th or something like that. The draft is the main way many teams can get better. Utah, Indiana, Milwaukee, etc are not free agent destinations so the draft is important.

Dangerous_Ad5039

1 | 2 hours ago

Idk a lot of the same teams suck every single season so I’m not really sure getting better is through the draft.

RevivalGhost | Pacers

1 | 2 hours ago

If you’re the worst team but you end up with the 5th pick because of the lottery, that isn’t going to help you. Especially in a weaker draft year.

fuzzynavel34 | IND

5 | 4 hours ago

That determining factor? The teams market size

Playful_Rip_1697 | Jazz

1 | 37 minutes ago

Always has been 👨‍🚀🔫👨‍🚀

DtotheOUG | Pacers

4 | 4 hours ago

So how many times would a team like washington or brooklyn have to get their picks taken before silver realizes bad teams just lose games

Atl-Fan_FTS | Hawks

1 | 3 hours ago

I think there is a clear distinction there between being ass with a young team, and having a dude (Lauri) who could legitimately be an all star caliber player but they sit him after halftime with no reports.

Also the wild season ending nose surgery type of shit. It’s gone way too far and its terrible for the NBA

FosterFl1910

3 | 3 hours ago

Making bad teams worse seems like a great idea.

Coolguynumber01 | Warriors

4 | 4 hours ago

everyone wants Anti-Tanking rules until the NBA comes up with anti-tanking rules.

shredmiyagi

2 | 4 hours ago

So much ambiguous gray area. So is he going to penalize teams who intentionally trim salary and put out G-League squads in October? Is he gonna fine the Bulls after letting the Sixers and Mavs get away with for a decade?

grand_moff_dierdorf | Pacers

2 | 3 hours ago

What about paying players under the table? Any new policies on that?

Practice_Today

2 | 3 hours ago

Thunder and Jazz took it too far

regal19999

2 | 3 hours ago

Fines don’t matter in the NBA, owners get that might right back via tickets and concession sales

rocket_beer | Celtics

2 | 2 hours ago

I’m looking forward to reading all the whining in February and March for these fines 🤣

overweighttardigrade

2 | 2 hours ago

There hasn’t been anything done with Kawhi and aspiration so let’s be real, ain’t nothing gonna get done

WoodersonHurricane

2 | 2 hours ago

If the Jazz didn’t didn’t deliberately try to throw a game while the game was happening, the league would have lived with tanking. Just like they will live with the Clippers breaking salary cap rules.

Roster management shenanigans off the court is very different from an optics perspective than is throwing a game on the court. And it’s not really tenable for the league to both permanently ban players for stat shaving while simultaneously allowing an entire franchise to throw a specific game.

jackarseofalltrades

1 | an hour ago

Los Angeles…vs Utah.. Keep pretending that these two franchises would be treated the same

WoodersonHurricane

1 | 30 minutes ago

There is no way in the world they would be treated the same. The NBA would stomach the Lakers throwing LeBron off the Santa Monica pier at halftime to throw a game. But they apply a different standard to the Jazz.

I’m not saying that’s good. It’s just that a small market team made the league look bad on a sensitive topic. Neither Silver nor stern before him would let that stand.

Mike-XL

2 | 4 hours ago

That would result in an immediate lawsuit.

Spierre3

9 | 4 hours ago

No it wouldn’t if the owners agree to it

mcboozinstein

1 | 4 hours ago

Just switch to the wheel already!

erog84 | Suns

1 | 4 hours ago

I care much less about tanking than I do some of the major issues they just simply ignore. Gambling, reffing is horrid, foul baiting.

LeonardoNoCapri0

1 | 4 hours ago

I’m sure this will never be used in questionable circumstances that totally fuck a small market team for a big one. Another great over reaction by Silver.

Talentagentfriend

1 | 4 hours ago

This is crazy. He’s trying to be an authoritarian in the NBA. That’s what you get when you have so much Saudi money in the league I guess.

Raz1374

1 | 3 hours ago

simple rule to affect teams who are perennially in the lottery. It’s called a repeater tax. you cannot pick in the top 5 in consecutive years. Any team with a previous years selection in the top 5 cannot draft any higher than 16th the following year. If multiple teams are affected, the teams are slotted beginning at #16 in descending order (meaning the team with the higher number of wins picks 16th and so on).

It won’t eliminate tanking but it will reduce the number of teams who seemingly are in the lottery every year.

Certain_Difference11 | Pacers

1 | 3 hours ago

All I’m gonna say is, at least the pacers won’t have to deal with this next year…

Tanking does have to be addressed, but, it is a very difficult thing to solve and I’m not convinced that the proposed solutions will completely solve it.

I do like the idea of using 2 seasons records for the lottery, but I also don’t know if that would be the perfect solution

rarestakesando | Warriors

1 | 3 hours ago

So who are the penalizing with this and who can they prove is officially tanking?

PetalumaPegleg | 76ers

1 | 3 hours ago

What classifies as tanking?

Obviously there are some clear ones like benching your players in the 4th with a lead, but benching one could be an injury concern etc. your young star weaks something and you rest him in the 4th and lost a draft pick?

The sixers process played hard and competed but had a bad roster. That was obviously tanking because they said to their fans hey we’re tanking (which frankly I think is refreshing as everyone does it sometimes, as a fan it was nice to know it was on purpose and with a plan). But if they hadn’t said anything how would you penalized them? Sorry my GM sucks… You’re gonna take my draft pick because my GM sucks? What about when your GM sucks when they were forced on you by the league (normal collar)?

Are teams without talent tanking? If they sit a player to be cautious with an injury is that tanking?

Well you don’t need to know because Adam Silver knows and he gets to decide. Not that there’s ANY danger of him misusing this power based on public uninformed opinion. No sir.

Urc0mp

1 | 3 hours ago

What if you’ve got more money than the NBA?

AdventurousChard788

1 | 3 hours ago

Does Silver know how the league works at all? Every idea I have heard from him on how to curb tanking does not address the problem at all, and leaves the door open for even worse antics. This guy is asleep at the wheel.

The only way you fix this is making all players entering the league free agents (keeping the current cap rules), or implement the wheel concept. All of the other ideas are half-ass measures that won’t change anything.

steadysoul | Pelicans

1 | 18 minutes ago

They’re just creating a new puzzle to solve and teams hire guys to solve these kinds of puzzles.

HimmyJoffa

1 | 3 hours ago

Because this surely won’t have problems down the line

SEJ46 | Jazz

1 | an hour ago

Sheesh

calderholbrook | Suns

1 | an hour ago

yeah, sure. just let the commissioner call it. they have no one to blame but themselves.

No_External186

1 | an hour ago

Sam Hinkie died for this!?

Opening_Duck5384

1 | an hour ago

This league only cares about gambling now. Cant pull players as it’ll hurt the sportsbooks predictions. Glad we have Adam silver to continue the tank of this league!

c10bbersaurus | Grizzlies

1 | an hour ago

I predict this rule will rarely be used.

The rule will be (wrongly) treated as the solution. But only implementation will solve the problem.

I saw the rules that were enacted around ²⁰¹²⁄₁₃ in an attempt to prevent the “injury management” spearheaded by Pop and the Spurs that is now ubiquitous in the league. It was rarely applied, the Spurs were maybe fined once, maybe twice, not as often as they violated the policy. And the rules failed to stop or even temper the trend, especially in the face of league wide benefits of having stars extend their careers.

If the NBA applies the rules more often than “injury management,” then maybe it will make a difference. But an unused rule will not make a difference.

vaalbarag | Raptors

1 | 37 minutes ago

I’d rather see incremental punishments, rather than something so severe that it will only ever be used as a threat. For example, taking away lottery odds.

Guaranteed, the first time the league office says something like “based on last night’s game, we’re taking away three lottery balls from the Utah Jazz, and this will raise to five the next time…” behaviours will change.

OMJuwara | Nets

1 | 19 minutes ago

Silver touts parity but does all this extra shit. What a bozo

AffectionateDark9270

0 | 4 hours ago

I think its a great idea. Just go to make sure that its reserved for blatant cases of tanking as opposed to a grey area where they could just be bad or injured.

Could be great if used properly.

maxi-916

0 | 4 hours ago

Finally Adam silver is David stern reborn !!! Love this idea

GarryWisherman | Pacers

0 | 3 hours ago

Silver knows Pacers will be a problem for years if they get a top 3 pick. Can’t have 2 small markets, OKC & IND, running each conference.

gamesrgreat | Heat

0 | 2 hours ago

Man this shit is so dumb tbh like this isn’t even a top problem with the NBA and I got fucked over in my fantasy league by the tanning

HendriXXXLaMone | Pacers

0 | 2 hours ago

If they really cared about tanking and want as few bad teams as possible they wouldn’t be trying to expand the league. It’s a way to punish small markets.

baylonedward

0 | an hour ago

This is like Trump with all the power of USA lmao.

CycloneofSparta | Thunder

1 | 5 minutes ago

Best we can do is punish the Jazz and completely forgive the bigger market teams - the future NBA, probably

[Vardon] If a team, under new rules, was still found by NBA commissioner Adam Silver’s office to be tanking, the commissioner would either be able to take away that team’s draft pick, move it to the end of the lottery or first round and also increase fines into the millions of dollars.