heat_fan_ | Raptors

329 | 5 hours ago

Spurs gonna be scary for the next decade

GregEgg4President | Wizards

124 | 5 hours ago

Unless they end up with the oncoming OKC problem of too many guys needing new contracts in successive years.

bobarific | Spurs

77 | 5 hours ago

maybe I’m spoiled as an avid european soccer watcher but does anyone else find it infuriating that a team can do absolutely everything right and that cause problems?

ThinReply2047

48 | 5 hours ago

Yes teams shouldn’t be punished for drafting and developing well. They have to fix that in the upcoming CBA.

Professional-Play-38 | Rockets

15 | 5 hours ago

If they even could….. cj did irreversible damage to the nba

sunbomb | Spurs

6 | 5 hours ago

Could you explain?

ExtraGoated | Lakers

6 | 5 hours ago

cj mcollum was the head of the players association when the current cba was negotiated

dwrek24 | Spurs

28 | 5 hours ago

Could be wrong but I believe they want it explained why the damage is irreversible not why CJ was invoked.

sunbomb | Spurs

3 | 4 hours ago

Yep.

dwrek24 | Spurs

3 | 4 hours ago

I followed your comment because Im also curious what they mean.

Professional-Play-38 | Rockets

2 | 4 hours ago

Well it wasn’t all cj, it was more of a collaboration between him and others, people just like to blame him cause he was the president of the players association, And well People like to blame him cause he negotiated for stricter rules for the salary cap which in turn makes it hard to keep teams together. A good example of this is the Celtics, they had to trade many of their players from the championship roster (KP and jrue) cause they were over the 2nd apron. I probably didn’t explain it well enough but that’s just something off the top of my head

dwrek24 | Spurs

1 | 4 hours ago

Are you saying irreversible damage because of the roster management decisions already being made that in essence will forever change the outcome because even if they fix it those decisions are gone?

Hopefully that question made sense.

Professional-Play-38 | Rockets

1 | 4 hours ago

Aw man I was just over exaggerating the irreversible damage part 🤣 my bad, it could be fixed but it’s gonna take a lot, I for one think it might not ever change cause a lot of team owners are cheap and don’t wanna spend a-lot. Again my bad for making you think that it was “irreversible”

dwrek24 | Spurs

1 | 3 hours ago

Oh no worries! I took you literally but I didnt really completely agree on irreversible. More just curious as to why you thought that. Its all good. I overexaggerate when I make a point thats not totally serious too. So I get it. Its just hard to read through text sometimes lol

Titronnica | SAS

11 | 4 hours ago

I mean, the Warriors did just that and everyone bitched about how they destroyed the league. The current CBA was put in place to stop another team doing what they did, especially if they had an owner willing to spend.

ThinReply2047

17 | 4 hours ago

The warriors initial big 3 wasn’t the problem. The problem was the cap doing an immediate spike allowing the 3rd best player in the league to join an already strong team. That’s like Luka Doncic joining OKC next year with only OKC losing someone like Dort (Harrison Barnes).

fab_frog_disco

45 | 5 hours ago

I’m not sure exactly what you’re getting at as a European soccer fan myself. If anything, I feel like European soccer is worse. As a supporter of both a massive team in Liverpool, and a much smaller local Portuguese team.. It really does feel like 80% of European clubs just exist to develop talent for the big clubs before they inevitably lose them

Nulgarian

21 | 4 hours ago

Yeah lmao, this guy cheers for one of the top 10 clubs in the world and has no understanding of soccer beyond that

99.9999% of clubs exist as feeders to larger clubs. For the most part you get maybe one year where you’ve managed to assemble a talented roster, before it inevitably gets torn apart by the bigger teams

At least in the NBA you can keep your homegrown stars for most if not all of their career. In soccer, you’ll get your star for a handful of years if you’re lucky before they jump to a larger club

Lucky-Conversation49

5 | 4 hours ago

Soccer should have salary cap. That would make it x10 more interesting.

RaynbowZFTW

7 | 4 hours ago

It’s difficult cause there’s many more elite leagues, the league with the highest cap would just have all the stars

FuckKroenke55 | Spurs

3 | 3 hours ago

It’s why leagues with a salary cap will always interest me more. A league where only like 5 teams can be competitive is just dumb as hell. I’ve been a huge baseball fan my whole life and I honestly don’t give a flying fuck about the upcoming season because the Dodgers will win even if they have a 25th percentile season. It’s just dumb and boring.

Veserius | NBA

2 | 2 hours ago

MLB has a ton of parity, the Dodgers are the first team to repeat in 25 years and almost lost the WS. The idea that they are some unbeatable juggernaut is fiction.

FuckKroenke55 | Spurs

3 | 2 hours ago

The MLB haaaad a lot of parity. Now that the teams are making such drastically different amounts of money on their TV deals, those days are mostly over.

bobarific | Spurs

-13 | 5 hours ago

I feel like it’s pretty obvious what I’m getting at, no? Can you name a time when the two biggest clubs in England or Spain have been forced by the league to blow up their squad specifically because their squad was too good? No? Then what you’re describing isn’t comparable to the predicament the spurs and thunder are facing.

pollefeys

11 | 5 hours ago

Barcelona was forced to let Messi walk because of financial rules in Spain where he was literally not allowed to stay on a small contract. They could not afford the big one, so he went to PSG.

bobarific | Spurs

7 | 5 hours ago

Barcelona was forced to let Messi walk because they bankrupted themselves with something like 2.5 billion euros of technical debt. I would *hope* that any club that ran up a tab that long would be forced to sell their players…

Spemanz92 | Thunder

5 | 4 hours ago

I mean, that was a pretty big outlier of a situation

fab_frog_disco

2 | 5 hours ago

No, it wasn’t obvious obviously particularly since you just had to mention a very specific scenario. Teams not be able to afford to keep their rosters together is a massive, massive issue for the vast majority of fan bases in international soccer

But I get what you’re saying now and it’s all good. Wasn’t trying to be confrontational with you. I just simply didn’t get what you were getting at.

The system massively prioritizing and giving advantages to a very select few wealthy clubs isn’t something I would exactly consider the fix to the NBA problem though. Club soccer has its own massive issues. Because again, unless you are bankrolled by a Saudi Prince, a literal Nation, or a billionaire investment company… Good luck keeping those home-grown players you spent years identifying, developing, and integrating into your club.

Also, there’s plenty of examples of teams rising up out of nowhere and some of the lesser leagues like France or Germany off of a massive amount of young up-and-coming stars and then being forced to sell them because they simply weren’t going to be able to afford their new wages…. And then tumbling down the standings. That happens quite frequently.

Just because Barcelona, real Madrid, and Man City don’t have issues with this doesn’t mean it’s not a real issue

bobarific | Spurs

1 | 4 hours ago

you just had to mention a very specific scenario.

Brother, it’s literally the scenario being discussed in the conversation I responded to. Anyways, it’s really no big deal, no hard feelings.

Club soccer has its own massive issues. Because again, unless you are bankrolled by a Saudi Prince, a literal Nation, or a billionaire investment company… Good luck keeping those home-grown players you spent years identifying, developing, and integrating into your club.

Agreed 100%. I think that financial doping is the biggest issue plaguing my favorite sport, and I think that it needs to be addressed, preferably by people other than the corrupt FIFA and UEFA officials currently in place. Fuck Infantino, Blatter and their cohort.

I think, though, that as an athlete with *MAYBE* 10+ years to make all the money I can, I’d be hugely frustrated were I to be forced to go somewhere where I have less of an opportunity for success. What is happening in the NBA is a lot of the top players are being sent to teams that would get relegated in soccer. Those teams have a culture of losing, they might not have well organized health departments, they honestly might not really give a shit about winning, happy to coast on being shit but getting that sweet NBA money. I’m thinking Wizards, I’m thinking Kings, etc.

Also, there’s plenty of examples of teams rising up out of nowhere and some of the lesser leagues like France or Germany off of a massive amount of young up-and-coming stars and then being forced to sell them because they simply weren’t going to be able to afford their new wages…. And then tumbling down the standings. That happens quite frequently.

This is largely due to the structure of the league where the top teams having television rights to their own matches. I like (love) the idea relatively even distribution of cash across the teams and (outside of chelsea and manchester city) england is going through an extremely exciting time right now with one of the richest clubs (tottenham) being in danger of relegation while a relatively mid level financial club (aston villa) competing for european spots.

In short, I’m not advocating for a model that reinforces financial disparity, I’m advocating for players to get to play at the places that help their talent flourish the most.

fab_frog_disco

2 | 4 hours ago

I agree with you Rewarded for the end. I don’t like the CBA and the restrictions on it. Teams becoming really good because of shrewd moves, good signings, and drafting should be rewarded. Not punished for doing it too fast or all at once

KuyaJohnny | SAS

15 | 5 hours ago

its not like its any different in (european) soccer.

outside of the top5-10 teams its pretty common to not be able to afford multiple good players

bobarific | Spurs

4 | 5 hours ago

The top teams in europe keep their players, the top projects in the premier league keep their players. Sure it’s tough for mid level teams to maintain their top players (or, for instance Bayer Leverkusen when Xabi Alonso leaves for Madrid), but it’s undoubtedly a far cry from teams with the best development and scouting being literally forced by the league to sell their players.

OurHorrifyingPlanet | Spurs

10 | 5 hours ago

The issue is that San Antonio wouldn’t be a big team. We’re a small market. In Football/Soccer, we’d be in a similar situation as Benfica, Ajax Amsterdam or Borussia Dortmund. Absolutely elite young player development, but everyone leaves for the Lakers or Celtics to get big money once the team gets good

bobarific | Spurs

2 | 5 hours ago

I really have to reject this notion. While, yes, the spurs are in the NBA considered “small market,” they’re historically one of the best teams of all time and play in the best league (and conference) in the world. What you’re describing is basically saying that Liverpool teams are small market because it’s a lower density of population than London or Manchester.

fab_frog_disco

11 | 4 hours ago

The difference is the numbers Absolutely back up that Liverpool has a massive reach and massive financial influx from that reach. That goes beyond just there metropolitan numbers

For all of San Antonio ’s success, they’re simply not a top five team for the NBA when it comes to profitability. They have by far the poorest ownership group in the NBA. In a system where teams were allowed to just bid for whoever they want, and pay whatever they want with minimal restrictions, we would absolutely fall behind relatively quickly. We would absolutely become one of those teams that’s known for building sneaky good clubs off of shrewd signings and moves… Only to have our players plucked away by teams with owners that make 40 times what they do

bobarific | Spurs

0 | 4 hours ago

The difference is the numbers Absolutely back up that Liverpool has a massive reach and massive financial influx from that reach.

…which would undoubtedly develop for San Antonio if they were able to cultivate decades of success and build the type of brand that Liverpool did due to their success on the pitch. That’s kind of the point!

texasphotog | Pelicans

1 | 3 hours ago

The problem is ho the profit sharing works in the NBA. The Spurs don’t get direct money from Wemby jersey sales or TV ratings for Spurs games. It goes into the NBA coffers and is distributed equally among the teams.

Teams make money from higher ticket prices, concessions, local advertisements and endorsements, etc. Those are all going to be significantly worse in San Antonio than they are in NY or LA or Chicago, because San Antonio is a poorer city with less big business to support.

KuyaJohnny | SAS

6 | 4 hours ago

Liverpool spent like 500 Mil. € last summer alone on players. San Antonio wouldnt be able to do something similar if there was no salary cap

bobarific | Spurs

0 | 4 hours ago

We’re starting to compare apples to oranges now. The equivalent to the players that Liverpool signed would not cost 500 mil in the NBA, not currently at least. Regardless, the real reason why Liverpool is able to do this is because they’re a worldwide brand, renowned among even people who don’t really follow the sport. It’s not exactly crazy to suggest that the Spurs could do that if they had the best roster in the NBA for a while with a rivalry against the Thunder that got tremendous amounts of views.

KuyaJohnny | SAS

4 | 4 hours ago

The ~~top~~ rich teams in europe keep their players

fixed that for you. teams that have a shitton of money (because they’re owned by some sheikh in most cases) keep their players and also get everyone else’s players. everyone else just loses their players on a regular basis.

PSG for example is not great because they’re so good at scouting and developing. they’re great because they spend literally billions of € to assemble a team.

bobarific | Spurs

1 | 4 hours ago

It’s a little frustrating to see this response over and over so many times. There are 30 teams in the NBA, there is no promotion/relegation. The wealth ratio between the top 30 teams in the NBA to the next richest basketball teams DWARFS that of the richest clubs in football to the next 30.

Friendship-Existing

6 | 4 hours ago

They got absolutely lucky lol. They tanked and got very fortunate.

bobarific | Spurs

5 | 4 hours ago

Tanking and getting lucky is a pre-requisite for success in the league.

YSLAnunoby | Raptors

5 | 4 hours ago

Yeah the CBA should have had a provision where retaining your own player doesn’t kill your cap the same as grabbing FAs so that teams are rewarded for good scouting and development to retain their guys

JoeBiden2020FTW | Lakers

1 | 3 hours ago

What did they do right?

Run the franchise into the ground for 5 years so they could be gifted Wemby in the lottery?

Any franchise would be great right now with Wemby. He’s the single highest surplus value contract in the NBA, and hit has nothing to do with the Spurs genius, just lottery balls.

bobarific | Spurs

3 | 2 hours ago

This is such a hilariously bad take, lmao. The Spurs currently are likely to beat the record of most players averaging 10+ ppg, six of which they drafted, 3 of which were not in the lottery. While it’s undeniable that Wemby is an insane player and possibly the best basketball player in the world for the next decade, it’s not exactly like he is a one man juggernaut and no decisions that the spurs have taken have lead to their current success. It’s also not exactly as if teams haven’t absolutely bottled getting generational talents - cavs couldn’t figure out a winning formula when they got lebron in the draft, Lakers fumbled multiple iterations of Lebron teams, Orlando Magic didn’t get over the line when they got shaq, Philly never won when they had Iverson, etc etc etc. It’s early doors but it’s utterly ridiculous to say that the spurs “just got Wemby” and didn’t do anything else right. Give your head a wobble.

JoeBiden2020FTW | Lakers

2 | an hour ago

Lakers fumbled multiple iterations of Lebron teams

Ageed, these Lakers are a clown show. If that’s your comp for the Spurs, then we agree.

bobarific | Spurs

1 | an hour ago

Did you miss the other examples I provided? If it was just the Lakers then fair enough but I gave you 4 examples of teams fumbling top level talents and If I tried a little bit harder I could name a ton more.

Veserius | NBA

2 | 2 hours ago

Kawhi forcing himself out and lowering his own value in the process hurt them. They actually tried to win, andv then sold off their remaining pieces when it was leading to 40 win seasons.

Resident_Durian_478 | Spurs

1 | 2 hours ago

Yup, the warriors got screwed for drafting well and because the created a monster by getting kd the league said never again and put a stop to it. Okc will be the next team to get screwed over then potentially the spurs.

KuyaJohnny | SAS

55 | 5 hours ago

the spurs should be relatively fine. 2029-2030 will be nasty because they’ll have Wemby, Fox and possibly Harper and Castle all on max contracts but after that it gets better again (Fox’s contract expires)

might have to move Fox if it gets too much but they’ll manage

WEMBY_F4N | Spurs

64 | 4 hours ago

Fox will be traded before 2030

Even if it’s not for a giant haul even a couple of picks would be useful to replenish our stash

DwarfPaladin84 | Spurs

28 | 4 hours ago

I 💯 believe that’s their plan for Fox. Once it’s time, they will trade Fox elsewhere and have Dylan slide right in.

clampino20

15 | 4 hours ago

If there is an expansion draft in 2028, it won’t be past that: either they trade him before or they don’t protect him (they will have 8 contracts more valuable) and a starting team will be happy to pick him up

texasphotog | Pelicans

14 | 3 hours ago

If Fox is still healthy and playing well, there is zero chance the Spurs leave Fox unprotected in an expansion draft. They would let a role player go and use Fox to upgrade the role player.

That summer, Luke Kornet will be 33 with one more year left. He’s likely the player that will be left open, because an older backup center generally isn’t the type of player an expansion team wants to build around.

krsaxor | Spurs

2 | an hour ago

Future Seattle/Las Vegas franchise player.

Emotional_Refuse9012

11 | 5 hours ago

Once Harper and Castle have developed properly in the next 2-3 years, there’s really no reason to even need Fox. Honestly, the Spurs might have to try and keep Harper’s numbers looking as bad as possible to get him for cheaper.

clampino20

11 | 4 hours ago

nah SA will give him the max, they won’t do the same mistake OKC did with Harden

fab_frog_disco

4 | 4 hours ago

The only bit of a hope I have with that is it’s hard for me to imagine a scenario where Harper gets the minutes and playing time to justify a Max contract, with fox still on the roster. Feels like if it gets to the point where San Antonio is comfortable giving him 33 plus minutes and enough shots where he’s giving you those kind of numbers… They’ve probably either already moved on from Fox, or in the process of getting ready to.

Imaginary-Cycle-1977 | Spurs

5 | 3 hours ago

If Castle were up this summer, would he get a 25% max? I kinda feel like he would, and he’s playing less than 30 mpg. By next season, I think you’re gonna see Fox, Castle, and Harper all playing in that ~30mpg range and Harper’s gonna have plenty of opportunity to show what he’s worth contract wise

fab_frog_disco

1 | 2 hours ago

That’s a good question. Maybe? Him in this camp can argue that he has a case as one of the five best perimeter defenders in the entire NBA, which in addition to his raw, but still effective offensive game goes a long way. If harper ends up being that kind of defensive threat in addition to the offensive player, we think he’s going to be even in limited like 25 a game minutes… Maybe? I just genuinely think it’s going to be hard for him to get more than 25 minutes a game and hard for a team to feel comfortable offering a Max to a player who hasn’t shown what he can do in a featured role. So I don’t think San Antonio would have to be too worried about matching a full Max for Harper in this theoretical

But then again, who knows.

gregatronn | Spurs

1 | an hour ago

might have to move Fox if it gets too much but they’ll manage

They’ll have to or he’ll have to take less money in a future contract.

tkflash20

10 | 4 hours ago

They are starting three tree planting companies as we speak.

ForneauCosmique | Spurs

5 | 5 hours ago

I’m hoping the CBA changes in our favor soon lol

Obi_Wan_Benobi | Spurs

2 | 5 hours ago

I think DeAaron Fox will be the odd man out. I hope he wins a ring with them first.

Texanjumper | Spurs

1 | 5 hours ago

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but couldn’t the guys choose to stay on smaller contracts to stay with the Spurs vs going elsewhere and getting their bag?

Like, yes, for some players getting money is the goal…but for others, and I hope it’s not just my black and silver glasses, some would “take a paycut” if it meant winning rings.

Again, could be my glasses but feels like we have guys that understand how well they mesh and actually like each other, and might want to stay put in order to put together another run/dynasty.

Fordascrolls | Cavaliers

21 | 5 hours ago

At the end of the day it’s just games of basketball. 99.99% of players aren’t gonna forgo 10’s of millions just to win more games. Espically when a chip is never guaranteed the way a contract is

Texanjumper | Spurs

1 | 3 hours ago

Yeah I get that, too. But like if your options are, say $50 mil over 5 to stay in SA or $65 mil to go to, say, the Clippers… what do you walk away with after taxes, that you actually get to keep.

Sure, 5 yr/$65M sounds better but if you're only seeing $28M after taxes/paying everything being in Cali vs $32M after taxes/paying while being in Texas….

I know it’s my glasses but I’m hopeful some of these guys are wanting to stay and win rings together.

Aggravating_Rip_1564 | Nuggets

11 | 5 hours ago

that’s usually for players who already made lots of money. Why would a rookie make 3mil for a decade when they could get a lot more than that

fab_frog_disco

4 | 5 hours ago

Yeah they came within reason. And there’s a good chance some of their role players will. Like with the thunder, several of their depth pieces absolutely could have gotten bigger contracts if they had been determined to just go anywhere for the bag. But chose to come back on team-friendly deals

The real issue is going to be with the Stars. It’s possible guys like Victor come a castle, Harper could take massive pay cuts. But historically that almost never happens with guys of that. Caliber and San Antonio is likely going to be massively restricted on how they can build out their depth if Castle and Harper reach there full potential in addition to Victor’s contract. Not impossible at all, and San Antonio has obviously with how they’ve been building, been planning around the idea

But it’s going to be a reality that we probably lose a Devin/johnson type guy because we simply can’t sign them without going into tax hell

ArgentoFox

1 | 3 hours ago

They’ll do exactly what OKC is going to do in that case. You sign one or two stars (in the Spurs case it will be Wemby and Castle) and constantly rebuild the team with draft picks on cheap contracts.

Old_Supermarket_7575 | Thunder

-7 | 5 hours ago

OKC does not have that problem lol

GregEgg4President | Wizards

8 | 4 hours ago

OKC doesn’t have Jalen Williams, Chet Holmgren, Lu Dort, Isaiah Hartenstein, SGA, Ajay Mitchell, and Cason Wallace all due for or receiving new contracts within a two year period? That’s news to me.

SunKing210 | Spurs

6 | 4 hours ago

OKC definitely has that problem right now.

Cason Wallace, Isaiah Joe, and Hartenstein are due for an extension this offseason, the Thunder are already over the cap currently being over it by $34 mil.

Yes the cap increases each season up to at most 10%, however, next season Chet and Williams’ extension kicks in.

Chet and Williams’ are each slated to earn roughly $41 million next season and as it currently stands as is, the Thunder will be at a total of $257 million in cap holds for the 2026-27 season. The projected cap for that season will be anywhere from $160-$169 mil, they’d be over the cap by around $90 mil and over the 2nd apron by around $25 mil

The Thunder are going to have to let a combination of players go. Any number of these guys to be a bit more specific, Caruso, Hartenstein, Joe, Kenrich, Dort, and maybe even Wallace.

Kertia

140 | 5 hours ago

Him and castle are going to be the best backcourt in the league eventually.

Conn3er | Spurs

72 | 5 hours ago

And eventually is in like 3 years, which is crazy considering they are already a top 2 in the west team, with a core of players who are 22 and under.

For perspective, Victor is 4 years younger than SGA was last year when the Thunder got their first title. They could get bounced the next 3 playoffs in a row and still be on OKC’s current trajectory.

Crazy crazy potential.

lebronjamesgoat1 | Lakers

6 | 2 hours ago

Kd Russ harden were all under 23 iirc when they got to the finals. So you never know

gregatronn | Spurs

1 | an hour ago

Technically Castle can play the 3 as well. So they could have many various combinations, depending upon who else is on the roster.

cuprameme

-5 | 3 hours ago

Lamelo and kon exists

PoonGo0n | Spurs

12 | 3 hours ago

They sure do

SadMall6272

-11 | 5 hours ago

They are good but I am taking Maxey and Edgecombe over them.

MVPiid | 76ers

27 | 4 hours ago

as a sixers fan i would be shocked if Harper + Castle don’t end up better than them. VJ has a lot of work to do on his creation and finishing, and their defense will probably be better too

SadMall6272

-8 | 4 hours ago

Edgecombe is very good defensively already as a rookie. He will be an elite defender eventually. Once his offense becomes more consistent, him and maxey will be the best back court.

Cudizonedefense | Heat

6 | 2 hours ago

Meanwhile Harper and castle are both already great defenders…

SadMall6272

0 | an hour ago

I’m just talking about the defense part. Offensively, maxey is better than castle and Harper combined.

Lucky-Conversation49

15 | 4 hours ago

Offensively, maybe.
Defensively, definitely not.
Overall, unlikely.

Casph0 | Raptors

-25 | 4 hours ago

Harper projects to be a worse defender than Maxey

Castle projects to be a worse defender than VJ

HastoBeAThrowaway0 | Spurs

22 | 4 hours ago

That’s just not true at all wtf

Casph0 | Raptors

-10 | 4 hours ago

What isn’t true

LazeyOne

17 | 4 hours ago

Harper is a way better defender than maxey is now

SadMall6272

-5 | 4 hours ago

Maxey has actually turned into a good defender. Harper is definitely not better.

Casph0 | Raptors

-8 | 4 hours ago

Lmao I understand thinking Steph > VJ defensively but this is pretty ridiculous

Harper has been tremendously outperforming his defensive trajectory at Rutgers and is still not really a big positive. Everything points toward the fact that once he scales up (mpg and offensive load) his defence will natually regress even further. Maxey is probably a slight positive right now despite ridiculous offensive usage

sleepless_inseattle | Supersonics

15 | 4 hours ago

Wtf am I reading here? Castle is all nba level in his fucking second year.

Casph0 | Raptors

-10 | 4 hours ago

Vj is a better defender than Steph was last year and has shown more linear growth

sleepless_inseattle | Supersonics

11 | 4 hours ago

Not everything is linear. Also you’re just wrong. 🤣

Casph0 | Raptors

0 | 4 hours ago

Of course not but VJ’s defensive growth has been pretty linear so far which leads me to think that he projects to be the better defender

MrFudgeKiller | Timberwolves

10 | 4 hours ago

Castle is already an incredible defender it’s not all about stocks

Casph0 | Raptors

-1 | 4 hours ago

VJ was one of the best ncaa defenders and projects better TO influence. Also has had pretty linear growth in terms of impact by most metrics

Tbf Steph’s 3 factor influence will always be hard to gauge since Wemby is such a monster on every factor and it’s impossible to fully filter for multicollinearity

swizznastic

9 | 4 hours ago

Probably, but we’ll see how vj and harper develop it could easily flip

nonstopenguins | Warriors

1 | 38 minutes ago

If you are talking right now.. sure i can see an argument. Primarily because of Maxey.. maxey is older, more experienced and better (although Castle is quickly closing that gap) than Castle. As for Harper vs VJ.. An argument can be made that Harper is better now and will be much better than VJ going forward. However these things are hard to evaluate. So the comparison really comes down to Maxey vs Castle

H3J1e | Spurs

101 | 5 hours ago

I’m not sure if I should be worried because all our bad shooters are overperforming and this is not sustainable or happy because our “bad shooters” are actually not bad. Reality is probably somewhere in the middle.

ItsYaBoiSoup | Spurs

57 | 5 hours ago

Nah fuck that, drink the koolaid, ready the car horns in SA

sleal | Spurs

1 | 40 minutes ago

Saaaaan Antooooniooooiiioooo

dwrek24 | Spurs

10 | 5 hours ago

The Spurs have been pretty average shooting all years. Two of them who brought the average down were rookies getting their feet wet. A third was a sophomore still putting it together.

Another factor was tired legs from the road in December where the whole team slumped including a generational slump by Harrison Barnes.

All in all this team is probably a pretty good shooting team but the floor is slightly below average.

So I say have faith lol

Not_A_Bot_Am_Human | Spurs

7 | 5 hours ago

Yeah Castle and Harper probably aren’t 40% 3pt shooters, but what does feel sustainable is how well the ball has been moving the last couple months.

No one seems to be forcing tough shots (not even Victor) because they’re trusting they will find a great shot eventually with all of the offensive talent on this team. Part of the benefit of having 3 elite downhill guards.

Spiritual_Echo_1000 | Spurs

8 | 5 hours ago

They are taking more catch and shoot threes so they are better quality

WEMBY_F4N | Spurs

7 | 4 hours ago

Idk about Castle but Harper was always a decent shooter. Shot well off the catch in college which he’s getting a lot more attempts of in the NBA

gregatronn | Spurs

1 | an hour ago

Harper was pretty good at catch and shoot coming out of college. the one area where he shot 3pt shots well, so this isn’t surprising. His mechanics seem decent already.

fab_frog_disco

65 | 5 hours ago

There’s been like a dozen games during that stretch where he was absolutely on the path to have something like 25 plus if the Spurs had given him more touches and minutes

He just looks ridiculously comfortable right now, and his combination of athleticism, size, offensive and defensive understanding, and dribble handle are just off the charts for a dude his age

The fact that kon is having such a preposterously ridiculously good rookie season, one the best shooting seasons ever for a guy. His age… And chances are if the draft was redone right now… Now… The Spurs would still take Harper. It’s pretty much all you need to know about how good he is, how good he’s going to be,

He’s a massively underrated part of the Spurs being on track to win 60 games

He’s already probably one of the three backup guards in the entire league already.

Pony2013 | Mavericks

-34 | 4 hours ago

Yeah nice glaze but the spurs would probably take Kon in a redraft.

fab_frog_disco

35 | 4 hours ago

Nah they are obsessed with Harper. And his two way potential is nuts

Christian_Bale23

6 | 4 hours ago

No way.

Kon might’ve peaked already with that insane efficiency. I can only see it going down from here.

Harper’s on his way to be one of the best guards in the NBA by next season.

PrimeTimeInc | Hornets

3 | an hour ago

Wait this got upvoted? Yall smokin crack today? Why in the f would people think Kon has already peaked lmfaooo. Cray cray

Christian_Bale23

-1 | an hour ago

Lmao imagine being so offended by upvotes/downvotes.

43% from 3P as a rookie on as many attempts as he does is going to go up?

I know you’re a Hornets homer and so the glaze is real, but let’s see if Kon can do this consecutively for many seasons

Pure-Can-9432 | Hornets

3 | 37 minutes ago

Higher volume? Better on ball skills?

If Kon turns into a 25/6/8 guy in his prime with low turnovers on like 48/41/90 would you really say he didn’t improve because his efficiency dropped a bit?

PrimeTimeInc | Hornets

1 | 24 minutes ago

Why would I be offended by people being idiots? 🤣

thedoming | SAS

0 | 38 minutes ago

Would still rather take the guy who can create at a higher level and handle than an off ball guy

Alarming_Lack_3517

66 | 5 hours ago

He would be in the ROTY race if he was on a bad team

dwrek24 | Spurs

26 | 5 hours ago

Its weird how often this becomes a debate. People act like Dylan is some Jaylen Wells level talent instead of the Cooper Flagg level talent he is. Draft experts thought he might be the best guard prospect since Cade. He’s very cleary a rookie of the year level talent fitting into a smaller role.

His role is so very clearly limiting his production and if he had his own rebuilding squad or at the very least was a starter, he’d pretty clearly produce what normal talented no. 2 picks produce.

Not_Different | Hornets

9 | 5 hours ago

I guess it says a lot that Kon is the ROTY on a winning team then

Safe-Union-4600

82 | 5 hours ago

guys be getting above .500 for the first time in years and start saying “winning team”

Remarkable-Lynx1496 | Spurs

18 | 5 hours ago

Okay tbf we are the exact same

RealPrinceJay |

11 | 4 hours ago

Yeah but the Spurs are on pace for 60 wins lol

These two are not the same. No shade at Kon, the Hornets are a major success story and he’s a part of that

Unhappy_Jeweler4438

15 | 5 hours ago

Tbf since they got their top players back from injury they’ve been a winning team

ThinReply2047

9 | 5 hours ago

He’s a rookie. He’s above .500 for 1 out of 1 season that he has played.

relax336 | Lakers

5 | 5 hours ago

They got above .500 by winning quite a bit lately. Stop being a hater. It isnt healthy.

Safe-Union-4600

0 | 5 hours ago

i love watching kon and he’s my fav rookie, just thought it was ironic

kingfosa13 | Washington Bullets

-4 | 5 hours ago

i know right?, spurs fans are ridiculous

Safe-Union-4600

9 | 5 hours ago

ok washington fan you can go back to your crying corner

kingfosa13 | Washington Bullets

-2 | 5 hours ago

poor baby

megaman_cdx | Hornets

14 | 5 hours ago

It does say a lot for Kon’s performance this season but I do like what Dylan has done as well. I don’t know if he’d be in the ROY necessarily (Kon and, to a different extent, Cooper have just been so great) but I’ve been impressed nonetheless.

Dylan and Kon got drafted to pretty different situations with Kon not having a real 2 or 3 in front of him in the lineup day 1 except Miller, who can seamlessly slide around him. Dylan had all star caliber Fox and ROY Castle in front of him. None of the 3 can seamlessly move to the 3 slot so it just limits his ability to start and thus limit his minutes.

His lows have been lower than Kon’s and high not as high, but he’s been impressive for a rookie. I don’t want to be desensitized to great play just because others are so crazy ahead of where they should be.

Kertia

6 | 5 hours ago

Castle could definitely slide to SF. They’re playing vassell at the 3 and champagnie at the 4 and he’s bigger and stronger than both already.

megaman_cdx | Hornets

3 | 5 hours ago

Maybe I typed out my thoughts too fast, I meant more for the cohesion of the team.

Can you start all 3? Sure, I think Castle probably is good enough to make it work. But do you want 3 potential lead guards at the 1-2-3 and then none of your bench? Why do that when one of Vassell, Champagnie, Barnes, and Johnson can play the 3-4 slots instead?

Unhappy_Jeweler4438

2 | 4 hours ago

All 3 are not the best shooters. That’s why vassell starts

gregatronn | Spurs

1 | an hour ago

That’s why vassell starts

He’s more than just a 3 point shooter. Their biggest losing slump was when Devin was out. A 2-way player who can find his shot always.

They will change over time, but Devin is the best “make something happen” guy after Wemby and Fox, this season.

tkflash20

1 | 4 hours ago

It doesn’t work because all three are not great floor spacers.

gregatronn | Spurs

2 | an hour ago

Next season it might. Harper’s 3 shot lately looks solid for catch and shoot. Castle’s improvement.

I don’t think all 3 will start due to no backup PG but i thnk closing lineups and big minutes for all 3 will be a thing. Also, Fox has been very adaptable to his “vet”/“let the young guys cook” role. I think he loves his new job / employer.

That’s what working for the Kings does to you, I guess. Barnes seems to love being in SA as well! Even Rudy Gay did well/enjoyed post Kings career.

gregatronn | Spurs

1 | an hour ago

Dylan had all star caliber Fox and ROY Castle in front of him. None of the 3 can seamlessly move to the 3 slot so it just limits his ability to start and thus limit his minutes.

next season it could happen in theory especially if Harper can keep making catch and shoot 3s. Heck Castle’s 3pt shot is looking better lately too. Not that either are knock down shooters bu tkeeping defenses respectable is all that matters.

Castle on defense can play 1/2/3 which gives them a lot more versatility. Of course the backup PG become s ahole without Dylan so it’ll be interesting how they run that next season. Or maybe they keep him in Manu role for rotational reasons but minutes per game increases by a lot to counter act the starting part?

Lots of good problems to have.

Screenscripter82 | Spurs

13 | 5 hours ago

Why are Hornets fans so insecure about this? Kon is going to win ROY, and all this person said was that if he was in a situation that allowed him more minutes, he would be in the ROY conversation talks as well.

There is no mention of Kon.

Not_Different | Hornets

-7 | 5 hours ago

Its implying that the current ROTY leaders are just statpadding on losing teams. Kon would be a starter RN on the Spurs and doing the same thing he’s doing now. Devin Vassell would be his backup

Screenscripter82 | Spurs

15 | 5 hours ago

No, it doesn’t. It just means that he too, is qualified . Assuming that he is implying that Kon should have an asterisk next to the award is a sign of insecurity. When people talked up McCain as a possible ROY candidate because he had like 13 strong games. You didn’t see us always follow that with, “Yea, but Castle is better just so you know. “

Repulsive_Tutor7750

-4 | 3 hours ago

Its a competition, by saying “Guy X would be in the running for ROTY if he got more minutes” that directly implies that he is as good as the current ROTY candidate but in a worse situation.

Its not insecure at all, you just want to compare your guy with Kon + Cooper without having to back it up.

In fact it might be insecure of you to feel the need to qualify your rookie’s numbers with caveats about his situation.

Screenscripter82 | Spurs

3 | 3 hours ago

If you want to believe this to make yourself feel better, then go for it. It’s clear that you are just insecure about the possibility that someone could be better. Despite current situations. Malcolm Brogdon won ROY over Joel Embid. By your logic, saying Embid could be better than Brogdon despite his injuries or playing time means that people who believed Embid would be better at that time were insecure.

Repulsive_Tutor7750

-4 | 3 hours ago

So the truth comes out. You are directly trying to say that Harper is the “Embiid” to Kon’s “Brogdon”.

But earlier you were claiming that you weren’t implying anything by it… just come out and say it next time. No need to be so “insecure” about your real thoughts. Everyone already knows what you Spurs fans are thinking with such a statement.

Screenscripter82 | Spurs

3 | 3 hours ago

No, I’m giving you a logical example of how your statement is insecure. You are saying that if anyone says Harper would be in the conversation of ROY with more minutes, it is implying Kon is not deserving. That is just bs. You are putting words in other people’s statements because you are insecure.

If you were secure, you could witness others be happy with their players and excited about their potential without crying about your player. It’s as simple as that.

This is why you don’t see Dallas/Flagg fans on here doing the same thing.

Repulsive_Tutor7750

-2 | 2 hours ago

Just a coincidence that your “example” happens to align with the real sentiment by most Spurs fans that Harper is long term going to be the better prospect than Kon, and also likely aligns with your own personal sentiment that you are too afraid to own up to now because you have to try and prove your point.

Your claim: “if Harper was given as much opportunity as the ROTY candidates (Kon and Cooper) he would be around as good” - this is a direct comparison with another player. You are not “just being happy with your guy” you are directly comparing him to the current ROTY candidates with that statement.

And furthermore everyone knows you also have the sentiment that Kon is a “Brogdon” and Harper is an “Embiid”. You just admitted it though you are quick to pretend otherwise.

BTW I’m not a Hornets fan, its just extremely obvious and then you have the balls to call others insecure while you are the one who can’t just come out and say what you mean.

Edit: guess you were too “insecure” and had to hide behind a response+block. Can’t say I’m surprised from your previous behavior.

fab_frog_disco

5 | 4 hours ago

I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to compare the winning the hornets are doing to San Antonio’s situation and Harper being a massive contributor on what is clearly the second best team in the league right now

But I still get your point. Kon Has had a unbelievable rookie year

I genuinely do think Harper would be challenging him and flag if he was getting 30 minutes a game on a team like the nets. He’s incredible in his own right

Capital_System8708

3 | 5 hours ago

Kon won ROTY?

TheCalvinator | Spurs

1 | 4 hours ago

It does, haven’t watched a ton of yalls games, but to come onto a team and instantly be one of its best players and impact winning to that extent is huge.

JoeBiden2020FTW | Lakers

1 | 3 hours ago

It’s funny how people use the argument in both directions.

When it’s Kon vs. Flagg, people say that it’s an unfair comparison because Flagg has to carry so much of the load and Kon is on a loaded team (ignore the preseason projections that had the Mavs better than the Hornets!)

When it’s Kon vs. Harper, people say that it’s an unfair comparison because Harper’s team is so good so he doesn’t have the opportunity to shine; he needs to be on a bad franchise to really showcase himself

hawk8024 | Mavericks

4 | 2 hours ago

I mean… yeah? It makes sense.

Flagg does have to carry more of a load being a first option with no real second option with Kyrie hurt (and those preseason projections you mentioned kind of assumed that Anthony Davis guy would be playing a lot more games as a Maverick than he ended up playing).

At the same time, Harper doesn’t have an opportunity to shine as much as Kon because he has last year’s ROTY and Fox playing the same position as him.

Both can be true. Not using that as a reason to discredit Kon btw, I think he’s deservedly the runaway favorite for ROTY.

JoeBiden2020FTW | Lakers

-3 | an hour ago

I think if Kon and Cooper switch teams, the Mavs would be in the Play-in, and the narrative would be that Kon is on a win-now team with veterans while Cooper has to carry a clown show Hornets organization.

If Kon and Harper switched teams, the Spurs would be the #1 seed and they’d say he’s carried by Wemby who can hide his defensive weaknesses. Meanwhile Harper is on a dysfunctional Hornets org where all young prospects go to die.

People can use the situation to make any narrative they want.

gregatronn | Spurs

2 | an hour ago

the Mavs would be in the Play-in

Mavs are a mess. I don’t think they’d be a play-in either. We are talking about a stacked (as always) western conference.

That’s not to talk to Kon or Cooper’s abilities, but more that they are a fucking mess and likely would be in similar records.

This season - Charlotte has a better team right now when you account for health and all the roster dynamics Mavs have had. Charlotte has had a good roster that is performing well along with Kon playing well. Also Charlotte plays out east and not in the west so that is helpful too.

hawk8024 | Mavericks

1 | 24 minutes ago

Hard disagree on your point about Kon and Cooper switching teams, I think both teams would actually get worse if they swapped places with how both teams are built right now lol

Coop has to play a decent amount of point forward right now with our current point guard situation and Kon isn’t replacing him like that as a first option, that’s not Kon’s skillset. If Ryan Nembhard is sitting, there’s nobody to get Kon the ball, and not a lot of spacing either.

And the Hornets would be going from one of the best three point shooters in the league to a guy in Coop that’s below average on low volume from 3.

Goon_G0blin69

1 | an hour ago

Lol bro Kon is playing lights out, but the hornets and Spurs roster depth are lightyears apart atm

Extreme-Transport

19 | 5 hours ago

Feels really solid from spot up threes which is similar to college

BasedGodProdigy | Nets

20 | 5 hours ago

Imagine if he was leading his own team already (yes i am fuckin bitter as a RU alum)

Lucky-Conversation49

5 | 4 hours ago

So you would rather him chasing ROY, rather than potentially building a dynasty and potentially the greatest big 3 in the coming decade?

I am a Spurs fan and I know we are ridiculously lucky to draft Harper, but I thought Harper is incredibly lucky to play with us too.

SharpsExposure | Spurs

4 | 5 hours ago

Like the Nets and the other 4 rookies?

fab_frog_disco

1 | 4 hours ago

I genuinely think he’d be putting up something like 20-5-5 with you guys on solid efficiency and you’d probably have an extra five or so wins

He’s just such a damn good player already

GodPowardKingOfLies | Spurs

11 | 5 hours ago

New James Harden just dropped

swizznastic

12 | 4 hours ago

His defense has been better than we thought it could be, so has his jumper. Hes gonna be a star

Castle, harper, and bryant would be such a good young core with keldon, vassell, and champegnie as the “vets”, it almost makes you forget we have Fox and that french kid

hawk8024 | Mavericks

3 | 2 hours ago

Yeah I was not expecting him to be a positive defender, maybe average at best. For him to be as solid as he is as a rookie especially is impressive.

gregatronn | Spurs

2 | an hour ago

so has his jumper

There were signs. his catch and shoot 3 in college was pretty solid. It’s just off the dribble (which was majority of his shots) since he and Ace were the only offense.

Justalittlejewish | Celtics

9 | 5 hours ago

Dylan vs Ron in the finals would be hilarious

swishdaddyflex | Nets

8 | 4 hours ago

The spurs are just built different when it comes to both scouting and developing young talent. They are going to be a serious problem in the west for at least the next decade.

Lucky-Conversation49

16 | 4 hours ago

We got lucky in Wemby and Harper. Doesn’t take much to choose them. Castle requires a bit of skill, and so is picking Carter Byrant.

Honestly, one of our thing is to draft character rather than just talent.

RealPrinceJay |

6 | 4 hours ago

Yeah, Wemby and Harper fell into the Spurs lap. With Wemby, you can only give them credit for tanking at the right time.

Castle was a good pick, and Bryant will prove to be a great pick considering where they were drafted

Bitter-Safe-5333 | Spurs

2 | 3 hours ago

i disagree. they were all obvious picks.

Who were the Spurs supposed to pick at 4 instead of Castle who was always in the 2-5 range, Ron Holland? Donovan Clingan when our only good player at the time was C with wemby? Castle was never falling to 5 imo and although I understand the Rockets taking Reed Shepard because they were kind of lacking in the shooting department, they fumbled not picking Castle.

Then the Spurs had even said they were surprised that Carter Bryant fell to 14 and we locked in our pick immediately.

All four of our most recent 1st rd draft picks were gimmes and pretty much just straight luck.

gregatronn | Spurs

1 | 35 minutes ago

i disagree. they were all obvious picks.

They’ve had opportunities to trade picks and young talent (2nd pick before Harper was picked, KD/Suns, Giannis/Bucks). They passed and never did anything there.

Also Kings passed Luka because they had Fox back in the day. lol

gregatronn | Spurs

1 | 36 minutes ago

We got lucky in Wemby and Harper. Doesn’t take much to choose them. Castle requires a bit of skill, and so is picking Carter Byrant.

There’s always luck but a lot of trash teams constantly get high picks too. They also could have traded away Harper as they got some offers to give up the pick.

Also they could have pulled a Kings and said “we already have 2 PGs in Fox/Castle” (aka passed on Luka).

So it’s not always as 100% of the time happening that way.

They also could have chased KD, Giannis and would have go to give up assets.

So….. It’s not always that clear cut and obvious

tkflash20

1 | 4 hours ago

Developing yes. Scouting has been a mixed bag. They’ve been very lucky in the lottery. They had a couple years before Wemby where they whiffed badly. Still probably top 3rd in the league in scouting.

gregatronn | Spurs

1 | 32 minutes ago

before Wemby where they whiffed badly

a few times, but no one is perfect especially in draft

Scouting has been a mixed bag

Talent + fit + Scouting is also what helped contribute to accquirng Julian, Kornet, Barnes, CP3 through FA or trades.

Luck is part of it, but what you do with luck is all on you. You also make more luck when you do the right things.

YSLAnunoby | Raptors

7 | 4 hours ago

He’s so good man. One of my fave young players right now

jumpijehosaphat | Spurs

6 | 3 hours ago

its scary to see vassell castle and harper are the 3rd-5th best guys on team. the roster is stacked

jumpijehosaphat | Spurs

3 | 3 hours ago

somewhere inbetween johnson and champagnie make their contributions

gregatronn | Spurs

1 | 31 minutes ago

And top 3 FA signing of the year, Kornet!

Boring_Activity3155 | Spurs

1 | 28 minutes ago

I think castle is already the second best

paddiction | SAS

5 | 3 hours ago

But did you know KOC would take Kon over him?

Easy_Money_40 | Cavaliers

3 | 5 hours ago

Incredible picks bybthe Spurs to go along with Wemby.

arawater | Spurs

14 | 5 hours ago

when it comes to castle and carter definitely but im not gonna act like harper was an FO masterclass 😭

paddiction | SAS

2 | 3 hours ago

Yeah, that’s like saying the Spurs did a great job drafting Wemby

livefreeordont | 76ers

3 | 4 hours ago

Imagine if he and Flagg went to the Jazz and wizards last year

Boring_Activity3155 | Spurs

1 | 28 minutes ago

I will not

baylonedward

3 | 4 hours ago

That roster will at least get ¹⁄₅ for the next 5 years.

PeopleusetocallmeBub

3 | 4 hours ago

Goddamn this draft’s gonna be talked about like the 1984 one at this rate.

Nabanako111

2 | 4 hours ago

Adobo power

evanphox | Celtics

2 | an hour ago

Insane draft class. The Spurs really couldn’t have gone wrong with Edgecombe or Knueppel either.

LittleTension8765 | Lakers

1 | 44 minutes ago

Crazy that he’ll never have a prime as good as the other Dillion Harper

BatchFloss | 76ers

1 | 25 minutes ago

I still prefer Dillion Harper.

Historical_Main5261 | Hawks

0 | 4 hours ago

I wonder what the Fox saga will be over tge next few years

Boring_Activity3155 | Spurs

1 | 5 minutes ago

Well, they have 3 guards that can all play both guard posistions. Thats 96 guard minutes per game split between 3 guys so each guy can get ~32 min/g. Theres not going to be a fox saga, no matter how much the rest of the league wants there to be. Plus, castle can guard the 3 so the spurs can use 3 guard lineups without suffering defensively and get each guy more than 32 minutes. Its not a problem at all, actually the opposite of a problem.

Dylan Harper over his last 20 games: 13/3/4 in just 23 minutes on 59% from the field and 41% from 3 (66% TS)