Bill Simmons says he’d take peak Kawhi over Kevin Durant: “If you’re talking pure talent forwards this century, LeBron is 1st. It’s probably him (Kawhi) vs. KD for that 2nd forward spot… It might be 55-45 toward Kawhi that I would lean”
Which is completely fair. The biggest knock against Kawhi is the health.
Yeah. I would take Durant because of health issues but I think a healthy Kawhi Leonard is better. Also it is close enough if someone said they’d take a healthy Durant over healthy Kawhi I wouldn’t think they’re crazy or anything.
either way they are demanding a trade
This kind of reminds me of Shaq. At his peak, idk if I would take anybody over him for one year. There are a few that I think are definitely in the conversation of course, but Shaq is definitely one of the people that comes to mind first. However, for a career? I’m picking Duncan over him, for example.
Same argument here. At their peaks for a healthy year, I’m taking Kawhi. For a career? KD and not even close for me.
I’m probably being too nit picky with your example, but Shaq was without a doubt, zero argument, the best player in the league when he was at his peak.
The only time you questioned if he wasn’t the best player was when he wasn’t at his peak. Even then, there was still an argument.
Kawhi is only in the conversation when he is at his absolute peak, and even then, it is very reasonable to prefer Durant.
Kawhi has played 70 games in 2 out of 15 seasons he’s been in the league, he’s accomplished so much but his career will still kind of go down as a what if
Goddamn that really drives it home how unhealthy he’s been, I would’ve guessed like 4 times or some shit but 2 is pretty damn dire
He also only missed 2 games his rookie year when there were only 66 games
Peak Kawhi is one of the best individual defenders ever, one who can defend 1 through 5, produce steals and rebound, and offensively is a three level scorer that can space and score in volume without needing to dominate the ball. He’s also one of the strongest players in the history of his position so he will bully smaller matchups to absurd degree but he also has the speed to blow by bigs. There really aren’t that many other forwards in the history of the league that compare to him.
Peak Kawhi is one of the best individual defenders ever, one who can defend 1 through 5, produce steals and rebound, and offensively is a three level scorer that can space and score in volume without needing to dominate the ball.
That offensive and defensive peak never coincided tho
They are both true—but refer to different versions of Kawhi
Pre-injury Kawhi on the Spurs was an all-time great defender who could defend 1-5, BUT was a more limited offensive player
Kawhi on the Raptors and especially Clippers is a great 3-level scorer BUT he dropped off massively defensively.
Idk he was cooking offensively the year zaza went for the ankle
Even if you want to consider 2016 and 2017 Kawhi as the years where he was elite on offense and defense, KD’s teams eliminated Kawhi’s both years
2017 has the asterisk because of Zaza, but in 2016 OKC beat the Spurs and KD outplayed Kawhi in that series
KD, who played with the next years MVP Russell Westbrook.
That was a 67 win Spurs team with Pop as coach, 3rd team All-NBA LeMarcus Aldridge, the aging big 3 of Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, and Tony Parker, as well as great role players like Danny Green, Patty Mills, Boris Diaw, David West, etc
Bruh… TD and Manu were in their late 30s putting up less than 10ppg in the season. TD was 40 by the time the playoffs started and Manu was a few months shy from 39. And by the playoffs it got even worse, they each averaged about 6ppg on 42% FG. You’re grasping at straws to make that team seem better than it was.
Spurs overperformed. OKC was stacked, them losing the way they did from 2012 - 2016 was a failure on many fronts.
Not sure about Clips Kawhi but 2019 Kawhi was absolutely still a defensive god. He just saved himself on that end a lot for what the Raps needed from him on the other end. But 4thQ; tight game; he was locking up the other teams best player unless he was a 7footer or a jitterbug point guard (and happily switching onto either).
but 2019 Kawhi was absolutely still a defensive god.
He was a shadow of his pre-injury Spurs self defensively already by 2019 IMO
It was just less noticeable because that was an all-time great defensive team (FVV chasing guards around the perimeter, Kyle Lowry taking a million charges, and you had a front court of Siakam, Ibaka, and Marc Gasol too)
Totally Fair. That team was defensively loaded. He famously declared “I got Giannis” halfway thru the bucks series and turned it around despite clearly being worn down from the sixers series
Raptors fans (myself included as a die hard) will never come off the hill that our run was one of the greatest of all time, and that Kawhi went full Super Saiyan God mode throughout it to get us that chip. Sure we all have mixed feelings about him not running it back, and many of us believe we would have won back to back had he stayed, but he was the best player in the world in 2019.
Can’t forget OG Anunoby and Danny Green. Pascal wasn’t a scrub on defence either.
Yeah, I think people leave OG out when talking about the ‘19 run because he didn’t actually get to play in the playoffs, but he was a key regular season contributor that year.
Kawhi is averaging 2.0 steals a game. His peak is 2.3 steals a game.
What stats track the massive drop off?
If you are saving yourself and not defending at a high level the entire game you can’t get credit for being an elite defender. Plenty of players elevate their defense at the end of games.
That’s part of the Microsoft PR running here, they think 2014-2016 kawhi had 2019-2021 kawhi’s offense
This is true
KD is maybe the apex scorer the nba has ever seen
But Kawhi at his peak is probably the best wing defender I’ve ever seen and an absolute elite scorer in his own right
Don’t hate it either way tbh
yeah Kawhi fills holes in your defense by guarding anyone and being extra strong while still being an efficient offensive option but KD unlocks a ton of offensive potential with his arguably-best-all-time shooting for his position while also being an above average defender and being very good in a defensive system. no wrong answers here and a quite interesting convo
The real answer that never happens in these convos is that it depends on the rest of your roster. Both would make any roster better, but certain teams would benefit with one over the other. If you’re starting from scratch to build around, then you are talking about health and it has to be KD.
If peak Kawhi means the stretch in the playoffs when Toronto won the chip, then yea guy was literally michael jordan for like a month.
KDs 2012 scoring run was better against far better competition. Not getting a favourable finals matchup like what happened with the Raptors does not make it any less.
2012 OKC was favoured in the finals
Peak Kawhi to me was his last year in San Antonio when Zaza fucked things up.
I feel more confident in Kawhi taking over a series than KD. This isn’t an outlandish take by Bill.
It’s a 100% accurate take.
It’s also not even really a slight to KD. There just aren’t many players you’re taking over peak Kawhi period.
He’s one of the best two way players of all time. As good as KD was he was never the defender Kawhi was and the offense was close enough that it’s a pretty easy choice imo
Any game highlights you’d recommend watching of kawhi’s? Haven’t seen anything
The 2019 playoff run with the Toronto Raptors
“No look steal”
I mean if the moon is in the right phase, and his hormones are in the right place, and no one had upset him so he’s willing to play…
Is it a contract year?
And if he has an all time amazing offense around him that can work incredibly well without him
That’s kind of outlandish… It’s KD we’re talking about. Taking over a series is something he’s done so many times.
Ok but he’s putting him #3 instead of #2…it’s not like he’s saying KD was terrible.
I remember Nick Nurse when the Raptors were in the finals series was 1-1 vs GSW and he was telling the locker room they need to win at least 1 of the next 2 at GSW, and Kawhi replied with “will just win em both” and that was end of that conversation then the Raptors did win the next 2.
Okay but why. There are way more examples of KD taking over series than Kawhi.
These people are huge on IFs lol. KD has literally outplayed Kawhi plenty of times in the playoffs but people here hate him so they’ll always resort to acting like Kawhi’s defensive and offensive primes overlapped his entire career.
It’d be one thing if Kawhi had no flaws, but he literally has a 3-1 blown lead just like KD, he left SA in such a way that the entire NBA thought Pop was the bad guy, now we’re finding out about his tree-planting “business” and people just brush it to the side because “he’s so quiet and awkward, he’s just like me”.
Literally. People’s perception of KD is so warped because they had to watch GS absolutely fist their team for 3 years.
Nobody wants Iguodala?
GIVE ME IGUODALA!!!
Depends on whether the fate of the universe is on the line. Just Game 7 with 2 seconds left down 1? Na. The aliens have the death beam ready to fire? Give me Iguodala.
Peak Kawhi is a scary motherfucker. And I’m not talking about 2019 Kawhi, I’m talking about 2017 Kawhi who almost slain the KD Warriors before he got Zaza’d.
It was the first half of game 1 of a seven game series. Almost slain is an over exaggeration.
Fr lol. Ppl talk about 2017 but forget KD cooked Kawhi in the 2016 semifinals
Same 2016 where kawhi was runner up for MVP behind curry and spurs were 67 wins
Durant was 29/7/4 that series on 60% TS and had a 41 point game that series and 37 in the close out . Kawhi was 9⁄23 in the close out
Kawhi averaged 23/7/4 on 55% TS. Aldridge was the spurs leading scorer that series . LMA had went nuclear in games 1 + 2
Kawhi was a much better scorer in 2017 compared to 2016. Like, his handle got immensely better. I still remember the first game of that 2016-2017 season where he absolutely cooked the Warriors and a big part of it was from the improvement with his handle.
Not denying that. I think Kawhi’s “peak” was more so 2017.
2016 he was a more tenacious defender and 2019 I think his playmaking and scoring were peak but 2017 was that middle ground.
The issue is we never saw a full series with KD and kawhi in 2017 or 2019 so I’m using 2016 where he was maybe 90% of his peak based on MVP and player standings (he was a top 5 player that year )
And even then that’s a disservice to KD because I think 2016 was one of his more down playoff runs . Part of that was going through the gauntlet of Dallas’ zone defense in the first round that always gave him and Russ fits, then a 67 win spurs team then a 73 win Golden state team. He was having to deal with OKC never having a real third scoring option or shooters to surround him and Westbrook with. I think peak KD was 2017-2018 imo. You could say 2014 or 2021 but i think it was around the early warriors time
Yeah but this place is nothing but KD haters lol you will never get any sense out of these clowns
I know lol I see it on all the basketball subs . In their eyes they’ll never count his 2 rings because he didn’t “earn” it like Dirk . Meanwhile KD has 2 of the 10 greatest offensive finals performances ever
bruh he was crazy in 2019 playoffs…
People talk like it was a common opinion now caus they don’t like KD, but back in 2013-2018, absolutely nobody thought Kawhi was in the same league as KD as great as he was defensively. 2019 playoffs changed that narrative but it never happens without Kds Achilles tear imo
Kawhi is great - but let’s calm down. That dubs team was a cheat code and they were down big in the first half of game 1, it’s a bit much to say he almost slayed them
You know ball
My dude, he said he almost slayed the warriors team, he played in one half lol. I wouldn’t call that knowing ball.
Sleeping on OKC KD lol. 2014 KD was some of the most unstoppable hoops I’ve ever seen.
Exactly back then he had explosive athleticism to add with his jumper.
Yeah do people not remember OKC going to Conference Finals every year on the back of KD in the brutal Western Conference?
He was incredible during the Warriors run and also his 2021 series against Bucks is as good as basketball can be played.
I don’t care to find the exact figure but between 2010 and 2016, he lost to the eventual champ 4-5 times.
Yeah they went to the conference finals every year on the back of KD for 2 years
4 conference finals with an NBA Finals appearance in a 6 year period.
The two other years that they missed was because Westbrook or KD were injured.
How many players currently playing have done anything close to that?
He was a smaller shoe size away from keeping Giannis ringless.
Prime Kawhi was damn near unstoppable on offense. He could so easily get to his spots. And on defense he was easily the best defender since Pippen, arguably better.
The Kawhi who was unstoppable on offense and the one who was an all-time defender did not exist at the same time.
2017
28/8/5 on 53/46/93 shooting (67.2%TS) after just winning the DPOY
Zaza just killed that
To be fair, as awesome as 2017 Kawhi was, his offensive game was not “unstoppable” like it was in his clippers days
In that particular playoff year he was pretty much unstoppable lol
He never averaged any of those numbers in a season lol. He did for a playoffs where he played a broken Memphis team.
He appeared for a moment and then Zaza Pachulia pulled off some pure bitch-assery.
61-21 that year, 2-1 against GSW in the regular season, and up 16 in Game 1 of the WCF at Golden State. Had 26-8 in 24 minutes that game. Also finished 3rd in MVP that year, 3rd in Defensive POTY, 1st team All-NBA, and 1st team All-Defense. That Kawhi was a 2-way monster.
fuck zaza pachulia (it’s a reflex at this point)
Fuck zaza!
valid but i still give kd the edge offensively, defense is what gives kawhi the argument overall. though kd was an underrated defender he still was not touching kawhi
Well there’s definitely one thing that’s stopped Kawhi
But then he chose the warriors over okc. Okc warriors rivalry would have been unrivaled. Horford planned to head to okc and Oladipo was as well
Yeah, I remember fondly all the rings he and that unstoppable, loaded OKC team won
The Thunder only realistically had a shot in 2012 and 2016. Every other year the better team beat them, they were injured, or the 3-1 choke happened. Leonard wasn’t the guy in 2014.
So in other words, Durant was not as “unstoppable” as claimed.
They had a shot in 2014, Ibaka just got injured in a pivotal game and he was playing well too
That’s not a crazy thing to say. What Kawhi was doing the season Zara injured him was unreal
That damn fast fashion
Sure but we also have actual data of KD being dominant for over a decade. Kawhi will always be a what if, which is fine, but KD has actually done it.
But also, if someone wanted to argue this, they’d have a pretty strong case for Durant. They’re two of the best to ever do it.
And also the Raptors title year
If Kawhi’s defensive peak matched with his offensive peak then I’d probably agree. But I’d personally take peak KD over peak Kawhi
Not even close IMO. KD>Kawhi. Kawhi very rarely had the superstar load for a long time. I am not talking about ten games, etc. It changes the whole equation if you had to carry a team for the whole season vs 10-15 games.
I think they’re talking about a playoff run, so 10-15 games
A playoff run after 70 regular season games when you carry a team is very different than 15 games playoff run.
Part of it is that Kawhi’s biggest knock has always been health. If you assume away the part that they’re equally healthy I probably take Kawhi. But the way it actually played out you take KD.
Idk some of these guys like DRose you’re just left talking about what could have been more than what actually was, and that feels unfair to the real accomplishment.
The idea of Kawhi>Kawhi in reality
The reality is Kawhi’s defensive peak was earlier in his career when he was a more limited offensive player, and once he became offensively skilled, he was a MUCH worse defender than he was in his youth.
Kawhi was still arguably the best defender in the world in 2017 when he was carrying the spurs’ half court offense
Yeah Kawhi in reality is just a 2x finals mvp and DPOY, yall are dumb as hell on this here internet
i mean, both of y’all’s statements can be true…
A 2x finals MVP and DPOY still don’t put him on KD level tho.
Yah but Durant won an mvp and came in second three other times. Kawhi came in second once. lol
“MUCH worse defender” is arguably an understatement. The early spurs Kawhi was genuinely a top 5 defender of the century, maybe that was inflated a bit by the phenomenal team defence, but he wasn’t even top 5 in the league by 2019. The difference between Spurs Kawhi and Raptors/Clippers Kawhi is bigger than the difference between Miami and 2nd stint Cleveland Lebron.
Early Spurs Kawhi was not a top 5 defender of the century lol
This is the best way I’ve ever seen it put. The version of Kwahi everyone thinks exists never did.
Peak KD is healthier and a scoring champ.
Peak Kawhi was the best defender in the world and scored the 3rd most points ever in a play off run
Surely you understand that total points in the playoffs makes no sense since you actually have more opportunities to score the worse your team performs.
so you’re saying he carried his team in a deep playoff run?
If the series goes deep then you get to play more games
Critical thinking has gone down the drain.
I’m saying if he won a series in 4 games vs. 7 it’s actually worse for his total points scored.
scored the 3rd most points ever in a play off run
What a useless stat
That Kawhi never existed. He wasn’t an all-time defender by the time he became an unstoppable scorer, and you should remember his defense was legitimately just average at times through the 2019 run.
2017 Kawhi was just as good defensively as he’s ever been and was 25.5 PPG on 48/38/88 splits
and even more disgusting 28 ppg on 67.2%TS in the playoffs. 53/46/93 splits
Durant scored 28ppg on 64% TS when league average true shooting percentage was dramatically lower against Dirks Mavs/Kobes Lakers/Duncans Spurs/Heatles
Sadly he faced the Heatles in the finals and not a crippled Warriors team.
would love to see your detailed breakdown of that claim
“Health” is a longevity argument and not a “peak” argument.
At their peaks, Kawhi is a better player.
If we’re talking peak, we have to take all of that peak season into account, not just the good parts. Kawhi’s peak includes elite two‑way impact and the fact that he was load‑managed, missed games, and has basically never carried a true 82‑game, MVP‑style workload.
Ignoring that is cherry picking. You’re selectively ignoring peak Kawhi’s downside.
Man people really have let KDs villain era blind them. This is an insane take to me. We have one short albeit high peak to evaluate Kawhi off of. I’m taking KD all day.
KD took an MVP from prime LeBron and there was no controversy. He was absolutely otherworldly. He was very briefly a 1b to LeBron’s 1a. Kawhi was never that good. People combine the defense he was playing for several years before he became a main offensive option with the first option scoring he was doing when he phoned his defense in. There’s this mythical DPOY first option that Kawhi just never was. When he was a killer on offense, he was letting Danny Green take main defensive assignments. When he was a DPOY, he just wasn’t an elite offensive player. Either way, KD has 15 offensive seasons better than Kawhi’s best season.
Hell he had a solid argument to win the year before too
Bill is an enormous KD defender. He was super defensive of KD’s move to Golden State and stated he thought KD was the best player in the world during his time on Golden State. I get what you’re saying but it doesn’t really apply to Simmons.
Also 2017 Kawhi was a monster
The crazy thing is that LeBron is better than both by miles and both are great
I don’t know how to say this without it sounding like a crazy fanboy. It’s crazy how there are top 20 players of all time who fit the “Lebron minus x all-time ability”. I think Durant was a better scorer, but Lebron was 95% of the way there, while also having DPOY-level defence and elite playmaking. DPOY Kawhi may have been slightly more impactful defensively, but Lebron was 95% of the way there while also having all-time great scoring and elite playmaking. Prime Giannis was reminiscent of Miami Lebron but with much worse shooting and playmaking.
Agreed. Peak Lebron, which lasted for a very long time, is the most well rounded and complete player ever.
Was he ever the absolute best individual scorer in the league? He was scoring champ in 07-08, but most years no. He’s not. But he was top 3-5 for most of his career.
Was he ever the best defender? He came in second in DPOY a few times and made all-defense teams pretty often. But no. He was never the best defender. But he was top 5-10 for most of his career.
Was he ever the best distributor or floor general? He led the league in assists in 2019-2020, but most years no. He wasn’t. But he was top 5 for most of his career.
That 2016 finals where he led both teams in every major category (points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks) is ridiculous.
As you said, he was 95% as good as the best player in so many categories. And for so long.
And he was routinely one of the strongest, one of the fastest, one of the most athletic, and also probably the best basketball mind.
We’re not going to see a player like that again. At least not for a while.
Kawhi being so consistently injured really led people to believe a version of him existed that was DPOY level defensively alongside an elite scorer and competent player maker
Last two years with spurs and Toronto Kawhi had all of that
Toronto?
KD is honestly underrated.
Is he…? I feel like I would also take peak Giannis over peak Durant. If I have no idea what the rest of the team looks like.
At their absolute best and for a single year, I’m taking Kawhi narrowly over KD.
At their prime (7-9yrs) and overall career, I’m easily taking KD over Kawhi due simply to availability.
Based assessment
Can’t argue that
Kawhi is the most overrated player in NBA history. When the spurs beat the Heat, it was a 4-1 series with the Spurs having the highest point differential in a finals series ever. 4 players on the spurs averaged 14+ points per game, 6 averaged 9 plus points. Leonard won FMVP on 17.8 ppg. Great shooting splits, but this wasn’t a traditional FMVP performance
The 2019 title and FMVP was arguably the biggest asterisk in sports history. Reports had no business beating the warriors and despite 2 major injuries, the warriors till took them to a few plays from game 7.
KD has had a very long running and consistent career of excellence. And a higher peak. KD has an MVP Leonard doesn’t.
Not to mention Leonard’s motivations are questionable, he may not even love basketball, give me the guy who eats and sleeps it.
This isn’t even close for me.
KD has always been an efficient and elite scorer but he doesn’t impact winning the same way guys like LeBron and Kawhi do. Suns fans and now Rockets fan will attest to it. He’ll give you a clean 25 points on great efficiency but somehow you still lose the game badly
At his peak Kawhi’s defense looked like some of the best defense ever played on a basketball court.
He’ll give you a clean 25 points on great efficiency but somehow you still lose the game badly
Might have something to do with the other players on the floor.
Yup it’s never ever KDs fault, it’s always everyone around him. KD plays absolutely perfectly every game
Stat padding: broke
Efficiency padding: woke
KD is not the reason we are losing games he is literally our only dependable player on offense our entire roster
Using KD on the suns and the rockets as a way to try to claim he doesn’t “impact winning” is laughable. Completely ignoring his stint on OKC, GS, and BKN. It’s like me claiming Kawhi doesn’t impact winning because of how dogshit the clippers have been since he joined. Just a laughable take
Kawhi is massively overrated because of the 2 FMVPs.
one of them was won on the Spurs where he averaged 16 points a game and played good defense. that FMVP could have gone to like 3 other players on that team and it wouldn’t have turned many heads.
the other was against the KD warriors without KD. and Toronto had like 7 players that were former allstars or went on to get allstars. Kawhi earned that one for sure but if KD was healthy no one is picking Toronto to win that series
This is horse shit. Durant won the scoring title at 21. 21.
Fuck this whole Kawhi movement
IDK man that playoffs when KD tore his achilles he just looked so good out there. He adapted his game to support Curry when needed. He could step it up to be #1 when Curry was off and then become more of a fascilitator when Curry was on. It was just beautiful basketball to watch too, none of that foul baiting bullshit.
Of course, he took the easy road to do it but it was still amazing basketball.
Durant all day, everyday. People forget that Kawhi only won in 2019 because KD and Klay went down. If we’re talking about everyone being healthy here because apparently being unavailable means nothing, then Kawhi wouldn’t even have two rings.
Kawhis defense has also been held up by reputation for the latter half of his career too.
There’s not really any version of Kawhi that offsets KDs offensive skills since he’s pretty good on defense too
People give the lakers bubble win shit and they should, but Kwahi getting the broken Warriors in the finals was a complete joke. Toronto gets swept if they’re healthy.
Same.
You guys are smoking crack- peak kd was insane
my pick is still KD
KD is obviously a cheat code, but yea if I’m constructing a team that has the best chance at winning then there is a good chance I take Kawhi over KD. Obviously it depends on the other pieces too.
Troll job. Peak KD could not be covered
I hate kd but come on, if kd isn’t hurt kawhi still on 1ring and clippers don’t ruin their only chances with stupid trades
This peak kawhi has never existed lol ppl are putting the idea of kawhi over what we have seen time and time from KD
Are we talking about Slim Reaper KD? Because he was definitely the 2nd best player in the league at the time and could even be the best on a lot of nights.
This one isn’t easy. KD is one of the best offensive weapons in history, but I think Kawhi is more versatile and contributes more to winning basketball games so I’ll take him.
Pure peak is such an easy way out to gloss over the sheer wear and tear players have to go through during the regular season and then have to deliver in playoffs.
We have to start appreciating the work players put in regular season along with the playoffs and not give weightage to just the playoffs.
Kawhi Leonard has to be the most overly glazed player of all time. Dude had one memorable playoff run on the Raptors and suddenly he’s “peaking as high as LeBron”. Everyone conviently forget that raptors team was elite before and after he was there. Before he joined, they were only being stopped because they kept running into Lebron. After Kawhi left, they won 53 games and were second in the east. The 3 seasons before Kawhi joined they were a top seed in the east getting knocked out by LeBron every year. The spurs when Kawhi won a ring, had 3 other HOF players in the starting lineup.
I’m still upset we didn’t get to see Kawhi vs the 2017 Warriors play out properly. That man was on something different before getting hurt.
This is probably the dumbest thing ive ever heard. Peak Kevin Durant could go off for 50 AND play amazing help defense. Kawhi is amazing, no doubt. But KD could go nuclear in a way that Kawhi couldnt.
I mean, yeah.
If I knew both would be healthy, I’d take Prime Kawhi over Prime KD.
No diss towards Durant. It’s close.
I think what seals it for me is the Toronto title. I don’t think the Raptors win if you replace Kawhi with KD.
In fact, I think maybe only Bron could have taken Kawhi’s spot on that team and Toronto still won.
And while Kawhi being available is obviously his issue, KD has seasons of 62, 55, 47, 35, 27 and zero games played. Not exactly AC Green.
Kawhi winning in 2019 would be the equivalent of KD winning in 2012 after LeBron and Chris Bosh injure themselves out of the series. That Raptors run has to be the most overly glazed run of all time. The raptors were consistently fighting for a conference title but kept running into LeBron. They were an elite team before Kawhi got there and still were a 50 win team after, they were 2nd in the east the year after Kawhi left. It just happened that the year Kawhi joins the raptors is the same year LeBron finally leaves the east, and the warriors suffer 2 injuries in the finals. A finals run is a finals run but his idea that Kawhi carried a terrible raptors team through an insanely tough path is just wrong. That raptors team was elite everywhere.
Seems like a really uncontroversial position to me. TBH, saying perfect health, peak KD was better than perfect health, peak Kawhi would be a hotter take. Peak Kawhi was among the greatest defenders I have ever seen, while still being an elite scorer.
I guess you could argue that Kawhi’s defensive and offensive peaks were fairly far apart. I mean hell, you could argue this season is his best offensive season (best advanced stats in the early 2020s, but this year has been a scoring high). Meanwhile, I haven’t seen any disagreement that his defensive peak was 2015-2016.
That’s fair. But I’d still take KD over Kawhi in all time standings
ppl still give a shit about bill simmons terrible takes?
That’s a fair take. Anyone disagreeing vehemently just want their opinions to be right.
Durant is a bit better on offense but Kawhi is a lot better on defense.
Pure talent? No athleticism?
KD.
2017 KD offered rim protection too though. The problem with Kawhi is the combination of offensive and defensive didn’t align so well. If you had 2014 defensive Kawhi with 2026 offensive Kawhi you basically have MJ.
Mj from 88 to 93 averaged 32.5 ppg on 111 ts+ and won 6 scoring titles. Kawhi is averaging 28.5ppg on 108 ts+ and 6th in scoring. I understand the hyperbole; it’s commonplace with Kawhi, but he isn’t close to MJ offensively.
IMO It’s KD , dude is insanely talented .
Reasonable. I’d take Kawhi as well.
The moment Kawhi doesn’t play because he don’t listen to team docs, he comes back when he is ready…Simmons is going want to trade Kawhi…a lot of people be stuck on what is current instead of what been consistent…gimme Bron all day and then KD..and then Kawhi.
When all said and done, both of these guys are a big “what if”
What if Kawhi was healthy
What if KD wasn’t a snake
I mean who wouldn’t
These hypothetical peak discussions are fucking dumb.
I prolly lean KD a smidget but it’s not crazy if some say Kawhi,peak Kawhi 100% healthy is a ANIMAL
Super super close tho. Both are great
Fair take, Kawhi is proven in that he has what it takes to lead a team all the way.
Yeah it’s understandable. KD is an overwhelming offensive force with solid capabilities on defense. Kawhi fully healthy in his prime could take over games on both ends. Either go all out on one end or be balanced. Both sides are valid.
Yeah Kawhi is insane. KD is great but he doesn’t do much that Kawhi doesn’t while Kawhi’s defense was insane.
Kawhi only had a few years of that dominate peak. But damn when he was all the way healthy his defense was scary. Man’s got tennis racket sized hands.
Kawhi probably 90% of KDs peak on offense but 150% of his defense. Kd has had a better career but kawhis peak and individual talent is better when he’s been healthy. He’s just not been healthy in a long time
I mean, Kawhi led Spurs had a good shot at taking on KD led Warriors. They were up before he got injured.
Trolling.
That’s not a completely nonsense take, it’s actual reasonable and I can see some arguments for it
He’s not wrong. Kawhi’s two Final MVPs are two of the most absurdly overpowered performances I’ve ever seen (and yeah, second only to LeBron’s annual playoffs Super Saiyan for years and years). It’s just that he can’t sustain it over a full season and he can’t stay healthy.
Peak Kawhi is phenomenal. Not an outlandish take. It’s not like he said it isn’t an argument.
He’s right
Kawhi was better than KD ever was in his raptors run. He just gets hurt
tough call but the fact that KD is constantly mentioned by players as being impossible to guard makes me favor him. Kawhi is obviously one of the best defenders in his prime, but I think KD is an underrated defender
This is just silly lmao. Nobody with a brain is taking Kawhi over KD
2017 is arguably both their peaks. KD was FMVP, Kawhi could’ve been regular season MVP.
Let’s not miss the forest for the trees..
If we are talking in a bubble where injuries aren’t a concern you gotta gove it to awhile for the defense and killer instinct when it comes to closing out a game
I think 2021 Giannis also has an argument as he is technically a forward as well
Nah - KD all day.
Kind of interesting that KD and Kawhi have identical career 3P% down to the first decimal place
Raptors Kawhi in the playoffs is more impressive than anything KD has done.