Headlesshorsman02 | Thunder

1144 | 5 hours ago

He should win DPOY, first team all nba, all defense first team and top 5 mvp

CorporateKnowledge5 | Spurs

170 | 4 hours ago

I’m obviously biased and know this is a minority take, but I think he deserves to be above Jokic in MVP voting at this point particularly when taking into account Wemby’s otherworldly defense vs Jokic being a total liability on that end this season, spurs better record, essentially same number of games missed etc. Yes Nugs have been hit hard by injuries, but even with that Jokic hasn’t been carrying the team as much as he has in years past between Murray’s year, Watson’s emergence, added depth etc.

All that said I think it’s a moot point as Shai is the clear MVP this year imo. But I think there’s a real case for Wemby at 2.

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

97 | 4 hours ago

I think this sort of conversation will be interesting in years to come with Wemby

We have metrics that combine offense and defense. EPM adds up your offensive and defensive impact. And it says Wemby is amazing, #3 in league, but a step behind* Jokic nonetheless.

So the metrics tell us one things about offense vs defense. But do we ignore that and just assume that top defense is at least as valuable than offense? We can always just say “well the metrics arent good.” Leaves the question of what exactly they’re failing to capture about Wemby, though

thecrunchcrew | SAS

173 | 4 hours ago

The “oh shit nevermind”s don’t show up in the box score

SilverMagnum | Celtics

83 | 4 hours ago

Sometimes there’s no substitute for the eye test. It’s like watching the old film we have on Bill Russell, it’s clear that the other team is terrified of contesting him at all and that complete removal of an option for an offense just isn’t capturable in stats.

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

23 | 3 hours ago

We actually do have data for when russell does vs doesnt play and how his teams defense is significantly better

[deleted]

6 | 3 hours ago

[deleted]

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

16 | 3 hours ago

No, we sadly dont have play by play data back then so that’s not the comparison being made.

What we have is looking at the GAMES where he played vs where he didnt. And the difference is insane, biggest for any player ever

Bit of an overly condescending tone for a conversation you weren’t even understanding

RemyGee | Lakers

3 | 2 hours ago

He didn’t understand you meant the team defense was better with the ole GOAT playing. I guess he thought you meant the team defense was better than other teams. Not sure how he got that lol

[deleted]

1 | an hour ago

[deleted]

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

3 | an hour ago

Dude im saying they were better with russell…

[deleted]

0 | 3 hours ago

[deleted]

SilverMagnum | Celtics

16 | 3 hours ago

It’s funny, I’m a data scientist, it’s literally what I do for a living. I love advanced metrics and I love sports statistics but at the end of the day sometimes you have to watch the actual game being played and just observe what happens in reality. Sometimes people just forget that in a way I don’t understand.

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

7 | 3 hours ago

I realize these sort of people have their mind made up already, and that’s fine: but literally nobody is saying “don’t watch the games.”

But, solely relying on your eye test and throwing away all empirical evidence is very obviously not sound. We have so much of history to tell us that.

Looking at empirical evidence is how we figured out that shooting 3s was a good idea! Hello?

kingdomage

3 | 2 hours ago

I really don’t get why people who are anti-statistics attached themselves to the “eye test” narrative when people have very different subjective ideas what are good plays what is the right way to play the game. People are inherently biased and will focus on areas of a persons game differently. There are many nba players who can “put up counting stats” but doesnt contribute to winning as much as others.

That said, comparing college stats vs nba stats in a vacuum is silly. Stats always need contextualization and there are some trends that can translatable to the nba but not every good college player becomes a good nba player.

denotsmai83

1 | an hour ago

Wemby’s eye test, however, is just different. Stats don’t tell us how many players don’t/wont shoot when he’s in the paint. They don’t tell us how many blocks he gets against a player that isn’t his to defend. They don’t tell us how often he disrupts shots. They don’t tell us how many times he’s 6 feet away from an offensive player and blocks their shot anyway. He does things we just don’t have a way to measure, today, but I imagine there will be a set of “Wemby metrics” in the future.

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

4 | an hour ago

Idk why you guys think that this is something that wouldnt be reflected in the stats

The whole point of RAPM based metrics is to compare what happens when a player is on the court vs what happens when they’re not

Anything Wemby does that makes the other team score fewer points IS in the stats

denotsmai83

1 | 18 minutes ago

Ok. Use your RAPM based metrics to quantify the stats I talked about above, and how he compares to others in those categories.

MQZ01 | Warriors

29 | 3 hours ago

Capturing stuff like that is actually the whole idea behind box-score based metrics - wemby’s defensive EPM/BPM/RAPM/whateverPM are so high precisely because of the “oh shit nevermind”s

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

14 | 3 hours ago

We aren’t talking box score, importantly

If teams are worse at scoring when he’s on the court than when he is, that’s reflected

Papa_Huggies | Spurs

9 | 3 hours ago

Can people please understand how the advanced stats are calculated before they comment?

widelyruled | Spurs

8 | 2 hours ago

+1, but can we also not start with the premise that EPM is somehow a perfect metric that fully isolates and captures impact on both ends? The defensive side of EPM is still a notorious weakness. The samples just often aren’t big and varied enough to truly deal with the collinearity problem. So using it to argue who really is #2 or #3 is majorly fraught.

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

5 | an hour ago

I run into this type of response a lot in my conversations here

Nobody ever claims that EPM is a perfect metric. But bring it up and people say “but it’s not perfect” like it’s a counter.

It’s strange. The eye test isn’t perfect either. Nothing we have is perfect. That doesn’t even make sense as a starting point. It’s just sort of anti-conversation.

The point is that across major samples - literally any sample you want - offensive impact outweighs defensive impact. Point blank. Look at EPM, look at raw on/off, look at RAPM, look at whatever you want. All of it will support the claim that the best offensive players have more impact on offense than the best defensive players have on defense.

You can throw up your hands and say “well, they must not be capturing something..” and that’s fine. Maybe not. But until somebody can actually figure out what that “something” is.. I trust the preponderance of evidence that suggests individual offensive impact outweighs individual defensive impact.

CorporateKnowledge5 | Spurs

1 | 3 minutes ago

Completely agree, and it should be intuitive—a single player can massively impact an entire offense, but generally is limited to impacting one of five opponents on defense. That said, I would also suggest that Wemby may be a very unique exception to that rule where time and again, we’ve seen him massively influence the behavior of entire opposing offenses—as has often been said, he has a sort of “antigravity” effect on defense akin to Curry’s gravity we think of on offense.

To elaborate on some of the specific limitations on advanced defensive metrics in regards to Wemby, he’s backed by Kornet who has very good defensive metrics in his own right, so some of those metrics would be more favorable to Wemby if he was backed up by, say, Zach Collins, even though that would have no reflection on Wemby’s actual performance. In addition, Mitch Johnson tends to vary Wemby’s substitution patterns as much as possible to presumably help ensure he is in as a deterrent whenever the opponent’s key offensive talent (SGA, Jokic, Cade, Ant etc) is also in. If that were more random, his advanced defensive metrics would presumably see a boost as well.

But overall, I agree with your points.

Purple-List1577 | Timberwolves

1 | 29 minutes ago

Sorry I was eating a snickerdoodle, what were you saying?

tinkady | Warriors

1 | 3 hours ago

Innumeracy is everywhere

tinkady | Warriors

5 | 3 hours ago

They show up in EPM (the RAPM component)

waveshineoosupsmash

14 | 3 hours ago

This isn’t as complicated as you’re all making it.

Jokic before the Heat game where he got injured was averaging 29.⁹⁄₁₂.⁴⁄₁₁.1 on 66% from 2, 44% from 3, and 85% from the stripe

Since returning from his injury he’s averaging 25.⁶⁄₁₃.²⁄₈.9 on 58% from 2, 30% from 3, and 79% from the stripe

Jokic before the injury was better than Wemby (and better than everyone). Jokic after the injury is not better than Wemby, and is worse than quite a few players actually. If Jokic never returns to his pre-injury form, the answer of who is better is obvious. But if he does return to his pre-injury form, the answer to who is better is also obvious.

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

2 | an hour ago

Honestly dont rly understand this reply in relation to my comment. Especially because it’s ironically more complicated than my comment haha

KhonMan

1 | 3 hours ago

A step behind* Jokic

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

2 | 3 hours ago

Edited ty

ButteryBaked

32 | 4 hours ago

I actually agree with you and I’m not even a Spurs fan. Spurs have a way better record and Wemby has a much higher overall +/- this season (a stat Jokic usually dominates). Jokic has taken a step back since his injury and his overall value has been overstated this season. His team was able to go 10-6 and keep the same win% with him gone.

tmcuthbert

7 | 3 hours ago

Didn’t the Spurs play really well when Wemby was out for a while with an injury?

CorporateKnowledge5 | Spurs

9 | 3 hours ago

Yes, but worth noting it was during our easiest stretch of schedule so far and our defense ranked something like 18th with him out despite the easier opponents. Despite that month of below average defense without him, spurs rank 3rd in defense on the season showing how absurd his individual impact is on that end.

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

9 | 2 hours ago

This is kind of a funny thread

“Wemby is better because the Nuggets went 10-6 without Jokic”

“Wait didnt the Spurs go 10-4 without Wemby?”

“Yeah but you need context there. So basically it was because […]”

The asymmetry being that no such context is being applied to the Nuggets’ 10-6 record! (easy schedule, net rating dropped, won close games)

Prudent_Fish1358 | Spurs

9 | 2 hours ago

Okay, but the difference is they’re both back now and the Spurs are 14-1 over their last 15 and the Nuggets are struggling and getting blown out.

For years we’ve heard nothing but “team record matters”, does it not matter this year suddenly?

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

1 | 14 minutes ago

Oh it does. That’s why Shai’s winning MVP.

CorporateKnowledge5 | Spurs

2 | 2 hours ago

I’m not saying that context can’t be applied to Jokic too, my original point was that one of Jokic’s historical separating factors in MVP discussions was that, even if Denver had an inferior record to other contenders, the Nuggets would fall off a cliff without Joker compared to other contenders if they were missing their own MVP candidate. That doesn’t seem to be nearly as much the case this year.

The Spurs are absolutely loaded with depth/talent and far from a one man team, I’m not trying to suggest Wemby is carrying them (although that can be argued on the defensive end). My point is you can’t really ding him on that factor when comparing to SGA and Joker’s own talented rosters as well.

Purple-List1577 | Timberwolves

1 | 27 minutes ago

The spurs are also a much better team right now in the regular season, which is what mvp is based around. If the spurs, current 2 seed, 7.5 games up on 5th seed Nuggets, end up in this 5-10 games up there is a clear winning precedent.

cookomputer | Spurs

2 | 3 hours ago

Yeah Fox and Harrison Barnes got hot to keep us afloat, Barnes cooled down a lot since then unfortunately lol. Our coach also changed our play style which was key. Played like Heat just pushing the pace as much as we could.

Life_Teaching6499 | Lakers

9 | 3 hours ago

How is this a minority take? Anyone who actually watched basketball this season will place Wemby above Jokic.

Wemby and the Spurs are clearly having a better season than Jokic and the Nuggets. Jokic can be a better player than Wemby, idc, but right now, this very season, up till this point, Wemby and the Spurs are playing better. There’s no mental gymnastics here; a better player can be having a bad season. It contradicts nothing.

CorporateKnowledge5 | Spurs

7 | 3 hours ago

In case this isn’t a rhetorical question (I agree it shouldn’t be a minority take), listen to any nba podcast or look at any mvp tracker in the media and I have yet to see one that ranks Wemby above Jokic, nor have I seen a different narrative on here so I assumed it was a minority take.

genericusername71

6 | 3 hours ago

Anyone who actually watched basketball this season will place Wemby above Jokic.

wild hyperbole and clearly contradicted by many basketball watchers having jokic higher

Wemby and the Spurs are clearly having a better season than Jokic and the Nuggets. Jokic can be a better player than Wemby, idc, but right now, this very season, up till this point, Wemby and the Spurs are playing better.

just depends how much you weigh team success into MVP rankings which is a debate as old as time. but yes i would agree that historically it’s very rare for a guy on a 5th seed to win mvp

There’s no mental gymnastics here; a better player can be having a bad season. It contradicts nothing.

this is true in theory but not very relevant considering jokic is having one of the best individual seasons of all time even factoring in his recent relative slump

LouieBarlo24

5 | 2 hours ago

I feel like defense is never taken into account for MVP.

Klaytheist | Raptors

4 | 4 hours ago

He might be above Jokic. Jokic has been pretty bad since returning

denotsmai83

2 | an hour ago

I’m also biased, but my biased take is that he should be third in MVP voting behind SGA and Jokic. He’s above Cade and Luka at this point. I have plenty of arguments for why he should be first, but I know that’s not going to happen unless the Spurs go on an otherworldly tear and finish the season with the best record in the NBA.

HungryHobbits

1 | 8 minutes ago

Agreed.

Honestly I think Silver is sweating right now, realizing how poorly conceived the 65 game rule is

AtreusIsBack | NBA

1 | 7 minutes ago

I always find it interesting how the media omits Jokić’s defensive flaws, but always bring it up with Luka. They are equal defenders btw. But one gets shit for it and the other one doesn’t.

Schmoova | Mikal Bridges

1 | 3 hours ago

Wemby is by far the best defender in the top 5ish players, obviously.

But he’s also the worst offensive player, and by a very sizable margin compared to the top guys like Shai/Luka/Jokic.

The gap on defense (in favor of Wemby) is certainly bigger than the gap on offense in a vacuum, but how heavily you weigh offense compared to defense is the determining factor in how you’d actually rank that group.

Personally, I think Shai, Luka, and Jokic have been the most valuable (and best) players this season, in that exact order. But Wemby is one more offensive jump away from joining that group.

Life_Teaching6499 | Lakers

9 | 3 hours ago

Luka? Even as a Lakers fan, I don’t think he should be winning MVP until the clown-show between him and LeBron is sorted out.

A player that can’t even keep his own team tight is not an MVP imo. Yes, intangibles.

Schmoova | Mikal Bridges

1 | 2 hours ago

The Lakers have an absolutely dogshit roster that Luka is hard-carrying to the playoffs on the back of one of the best offensive seasons ever (statistically).

‘17 Russ & ‘22 Jokic won MVPs with mediocre records for that exact same argument.

I think SGA is the obvious favorite and winner, but I think Luka’s season is actually being underrated due to how bad his teammates are.

Life_Teaching6499 | Lakers

1 | 2 hours ago

Read?

I never said Luka shouldn’t win because of Lakers’ poor performance and what not.

I’m saying he needs to sort out the clown show between him and LeBron.

Schmoova | Mikal Bridges

1 | 2 hours ago

Could you elaborate?

Lebron is very old and nowhere near the player he used to be. His presence on the court is a negative next to Luka.

I don’t get how that’s Luka’s fault. They have an extremely poor roster being hampered by a 41yo on a max.

It’s not lebrons fault either, I mean it’s not his fault he’s old.

I just don’t get what you’re trying to imply is on Luka.

Adorable-Bike-9689

0 | 3 hours ago

People will say we’re nitpicking. But I think this as well as Joker’s poor clutch record put Wemby above him

We’ve gotta split hairs when we discuss MVP. They all have a legitimate case to win.

twatwater | Thunder

0 | 2 hours ago

I agree with you.

adad239_

-1 | 3 hours ago

Yea no Jokic still clears wemby and the only reason why spurs have better record is cuz their deeeper and had less injuries

XiaoRCT | Thunder

7 | 3 hours ago

People actually forgot what Jokic was doing before the injury, crazy

twatwater | Thunder

0 | 2 hours ago

They didn’t forget, he just didn’t keep it up.

XiaoRCT | Thunder

1 | an hour ago

Sure but what he did was still enough to keep wemby behind Joker imo

dafdiego777 | Rockets

-9 | 4 hours ago

You’re out of your mind. I get that jokic has regressed defensively this year but he’s still the best offensive player in the nba by a sizable margin.

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

22 | 4 hours ago

I think he’s above shai offensively but not by that much. The shai/jordan archetype is underrated offensively imo because they don’t get as many assists as people want. But then you look at the impact numbers and they’re incredible.

Any_Garbage_4359

15 | 4 hours ago

Sizeable margin is crazy

mrizvi | San Francisco Warriors

8 | an hour ago

How close is he to being the best player in the world?

dreadpirateruss | Thunder

8 | an hour ago

Very. Saying he’s the best now isn’t outrageous. I don’t agree, but it’s plausible. SGA & Jokic have efficiency & consistency on him. His advantage on defense is significant when compared to SGA & comical compared to Jokic. I’m excited to see how he looks in the playoffs.

delamerica93 | Kings

7 | 43 minutes ago

I do want to remind everyone that despite him not being a popular pick, Giannis is averaging 28/10/5 on the best efficiency of his career. He should at least be in the conversation

harbleu

3 | 36 minutes ago

I think their team record is too ass for him to seriously be in any MVP conversation, has there even been a league MVP on a team with a negative W-L record?

dreadpirateruss | Thunder

1 | 34 minutes ago

I was actually thinking about Giannis after I posted this. He’s in the same boat as Wemby where even if he just had an average skillset, he’d still be really good just due to a crazy physical frame.

MrFishAndLoaves | Pelicans

-7 | 4 hours ago

And a ring

Vpzlol

409 | 5 hours ago

He can miss 4, not 3.

dwrek24 | Spurs

232 | 5 hours ago

They keep thinking the cup final doesn’t count. Ive let it go at this point.

j_fish5 | Lakers

52 | 5 hours ago

Does it count? Didn’t think about that since it’s not reflected in the record

wemBLOCKyama | Spurs

144 | 4 hours ago

It counts towards the number of games played but not towards the team standings.

j_fish5 | Lakers

19 | 4 hours ago

TIL, thanks!

moonshadow50 | Spurs

13 | 4 hours ago

According to multiple reporters I have heard mention it, the NBA counts the Cup Final as one of your 65 games. (I haven’t looked for the actual NBA ruling, but I’ve heard it mentioned enough times that I hope they aren’t all making it up).

96Mute96 | Spurs

228 | 5 hours ago

If he is consistent with his recent performances he’s a lock for DPOY and 1st team all NBA

moonshadow50 | Spurs

90 | 4 hours ago

(Other than missing 64 games) what could possibly change to prevent him from being a unanimous (or very close to it) DPOY?

Apollo18Teslaa

100 | 4 hours ago

Returning to his home world. Only earthlings are eligible.

sharkflood

11 | 2 hours ago

Racist ass league smh

thisissami | BRK

6 | an hour ago

~~Racist~~ Xenophobic ass league smh

FTFY

Dangelo1998

17 | 4 hours ago

One way could be voters shenanigans, they managed to keep Belichick out of being a first ballot hall of famer 😂

GivesCredit | Warriors

4 | 3 hours ago

A comet hitting earth would probably do it

Cecil_Hardboner | Spurs

3 | 2 hours ago

OKC people vote for Chet

GreedyPride4565

1 | 7 minutes ago

The notorious OKC media mafia that secretly pull the strings. Yeah makes sense

Life_Teaching6499 | Lakers

1 | 3 hours ago

MJ un-retires and averages 4 spg and 4 bpg.

lukewwilson | Lakers

6 | 3 hours ago

At home, on the road it’s 2 spg and 2 bpg

Life_Teaching6499 | Lakers

5 | 3 hours ago

Scottie, that you?

empowered676

164 | 4 hours ago

Nobel peace prize

Connect_Cat_2045 | Warriors

21 | 3 hours ago

Maybe even the FIFA peace prize. Don’t think he’s qualified for this one though.

The Nobel one I can see him winning

soycameron | Trail Blazers

149 | 5 hours ago

DPOY and First team All NBA are his

If Shai and Jokic got hurt, he could get MVP, but it’s very unlikely Shai doesn’t reach 65

clancydog4 | Nuggets

17 | 3 hours ago

The spurs are only two games back of the top seed. If they overtake the thunder I truly don’t see the argument for Shai over Wemby

guess-what-babe | East

19 | 3 hours ago

Shai > Wemby > Jokic honestly in terms of MVP voting

twatwater | Thunder

1 | an hour ago

Agree

Lukkake77

8 | an hour ago

What about simply being superior player what the fuck?

I get how you might think wemby is more deserving but saying “ I simply don’t see arguement for Shai over wemby” is delulu.

Arguement is he”s still are superior player, as are Jokic, Giannis and Luka. If difference is 1 seed that shouldnt be enough for him to win.

denotsmai83

3 | an hour ago

The opposite is equally absurd. There are arguments for either being better than the other.

Conn3er | Spurs

-2 | an hour ago

Superior player offensively

Two sides of the court and while MVP has an inherent offensive bias that will stop him from winning it it doesn’t make him an inferior player to shai

That’s Evidence by the fact that 29 teams would not take Shai over wemby if they could pick one right now

[deleted]

1 | an hour ago

[deleted]

Conn3er | Spurs

1 | 44 minutes ago

That’s pretty much exactly what I said

There’s a big offensive gap between the two and yet still the gap defensively between the two is bigger than the gap offensively, which was the whole point.

clancydog4 | Nuggets

-3 | an hour ago

We obviously do not agree that he is the obviously superior player. Like chill.out dude we obviously just disagree. Which is fine

V17R | Thunder

4 | 41 minutes ago

Bruh you cannot be serious right now, Wemby is so far behind offensively. He’s young and incredibly inconsistent still, he had a game earlier this year where he nearly had more TO’s (6) than points (9pts). He’s scored less than 20pts in 35% of his games this season while Shai is about to pass Wilt for consecutive 20pt games all time, it’s been almost two years since he failed to drop 20+ let alone going single digits.

SGA is about to set the most efficient 30+ppg season we’ve ever seen for a guard, he’s shooting better from literally everywhere on the floor than 7’5 Wemby including 2pt range.

Wemby is at a 1:1 TO to Assist ratio while SGA has one of the best assist to turnover ratios in the league.

Wemby is a monster defensively but it’s not close offensively. The only guy with an argument for MVP over SGA statistically is Jokic, but the Nuggets have been free falling down the standings.

You guys want to crown Wemby so badly but you gotta wait and let the man actually do it first. DPOY, All NBA and All Defense for Wemby this year but that MVP is locked up when you look at the overall whole season.

depewisaac | Thunder

2 | an hour ago

Don’t be silly

Proof-Top-9024 | Spurs

1 | 9 minutes ago

Wemby took ROY from Chet, gonna take MVP from Shai, then the title from the thunder.

gvidigal

2 | an hour ago

If you say that then you truly don’t watch basketball.

clancydog4 | Nuggets

0 | an hour ago

Hahahahahah okay,.back atcha buddy. Great point.

[deleted]

-12 | 3 hours ago

[deleted]

tnywy27

1 | 3 hours ago

lol wut. Jokic leads defensive box plus/minus, I would give it to him

ButteryBaked

46 | 5 hours ago

Lock for 1st team and DPOY.

MVP is still a possibility depending on how the last 19 games play out. If the Spurs can steal the 1 seed I wouldn’t mind Wemby winning MVP

Any_Garbage_4359

14 | 5 hours ago

It wont be that easy. Its gonna take more than simply getting the 1st seed

Longjumping_One_9164 | Thunder

-6 | 4 hours ago

No way Wemby taking it over SGA if SGA hits 65 games.

Could be an argument if Wemby had played 10+ more games and goes white hot for remaining games, but SGA has been too consistent the whole year.

But wouldnt be surprised to see Wemby finish #2.

No-Shop-6020

29 | 4 hours ago

if the spurs take the 1 seed and are 4-1 against the thunder, what does shai have over him

IEatPandasEveryday | Thunder

2 | 39 minutes ago

Shai is averaging 8 more points, Less turnovers while being the primary ball handler. And he has had a WAY more unhealthy team the whole year, lmao recency bias is unreal on here

No-Shop-6020

0 | 37 minutes ago

can you change pandas to dicks

Longjumping_One_9164 | Thunder

-14 | 4 hours ago

SGA has played more games, is shooting nearly 55/39/89 while averaging 31+.

He is two games away from breaking a Wilt Chamberlain record for scoring 20+ in 126 straight games.

4-1 record means very little when Wemby has only put up 18/9/2/1.2 in the five match ups. In the last H2H he had ¹⁷⁄₇ on 48TS%.

I am not saying Wemby isn’t great, because he is and will almost certainly win multiple MVPs, but SGA has maybe 1-2 ‘average’ games this entire season.

AleroRatking | Vancouver Grizzlies

14 | 3 hours ago

All of that is ignoring defense.

FuckKroenke55 | Spurs

10 | 2 hours ago

It’s maddening that people completely ignore defense when discussing Wemby for MVP. The entire game changes when Wemby steps on the court. Teams barely even try to go in the paint, passing lanes are almost non-existent. He allows the guards to play like psychos on the outside. I would argue he has more defensive impact than just about anyone in history.

Apparently we’re supposed to ignore all that because SGA is an efficient scorer and stands in a corner against the other teams’ worst offensive weapon.

IEatPandasEveryday | Thunder

1 | 31 minutes ago

Acting like Shai isn’t good on defense too? While averaging 30+ pts, The gap between Wembys offense and SGAs offense is the same between there defense. Wemby is way too inconsistent on offense, didn’t he have a 13 point game the other night? Oh but he makes up for it on defense, suuurree lmao

No-Shop-6020

7 | 3 hours ago

if you are saying the spurs are a better team that can win without their best player scoring then… i appreciate your humility?

GivesCredit | Warriors

9 | 3 hours ago

Yeah I think putting Wemby at 2 is adventurous but I don’t hate it. Shai is the clear MVP this season and it’s not that close

Parallel-Quality

5 | 2 hours ago

lol why are you downvoted so hard?

SGA has had a better season than Wemby without question.

There is nothing Wemby can realistically do to win MVP, unless SGA drops below 65 games.

denotsmai83

1 | 31 minutes ago

What makes it so unquestionable though? Candidly, I think SGA is going to win it, but I also feel like Wemby is being overlooked, especially if they flip in the standings (which I don’t think will happen).

depewisaac | Thunder

3 | an hour ago

Ignore the downvotes, this thread is obviously filled with delulu spurs fans. This is the correct opinion. Even if the Spurs take the 1 seed, Wemby objectively has not had as good of a season as Shai

Unspoken | Spurs

1 | 43 minutes ago

I don’t know why you are getting down voted. I honestly agree. SGA has been amazing this year. Wemby’s defensive impact has been other worldly but SGAs offense is so good.

BananaRepublic_BR | Spurs

47 | 5 hours ago

All of them. Including 6MOY.

dr_shastafarian | Knicks

34 | 5 hours ago

That’s just because he takes up the space of 6 men on the court.

Life_Teaching6499 | Lakers

3 | 3 hours ago

Cmon man, Wemby’s limbs are so long they need to give him extra space when he takes a breather on the bench.

So, on and off the court.

HarryPauler | Timberwolves

-3 | 4 hours ago

Give Naz Reid his flowers dammit

BananaRepublic_BR | Spurs

19 | 4 hours ago

Nah. Keldon Johnson. ;)

HarryPauler | Timberwolves

-2 | 4 hours ago

Cmon man today sucked enough.

But fr tho Naz should still probably win it. And that would be so cool considering it would absolutely be dedicated to his sister

moonshadow50 | Spurs

42 | 4 hours ago

Wemby only needs 15 more games, not 16.

The Cup Finals counts as one of the 65.

dwrek24 | Spurs

39 | 5 hours ago

My favorite award of all will be banishing the injury prone narrative.

Jk that’ll never stop.

Acrobatic_Lynx_3362

12 | 4 hours ago

Wemby basically needs to dodge recurring injury issues for the next 10+ years so yea, for now we’re stuck with this narrative

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

-3 | 4 hours ago

Hes never winning mvp if hes barely hitting 65 every yr so itll still be notable if he wants to be the goat

thecrunchcrew | SAS

20 | 4 hours ago

He played over 70 games his rookie season with us being super cautious with him and he had a one-off blot clot thing last year.

Do yall not see him roll his ankles and not miss any time? He gets knocked around plenty. Dude is way more durable than yall want to believe

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

-8 | 2 hours ago

71, 46, 65

Is simply not that great

Like, i get it. People act like he’s ben simmons and im sure that’s frustrating to spurs fan. We don’t have to go the other way lol

Prudent_Fish1358 | Spurs

10 | 2 hours ago

⁷¹⁄₈₂ for a rookie is fine

A blood clot is completely unrelated to basketball

And you don’t know he’s only going to play 65 games this year.

denotsmai83

1 | 27 minutes ago

I kinda hope he only plays 65 this year. I want him to be award eligible because he deserves it. But I care way more about finals MVP.

Hellschampion | Warriors [GSW] #1 Warriors Bandwagon

20 | 5 hours ago

DPOY. If SGA and Jokic miss too many games maybe MVP depending on how Ant, Luka, Cade finish the year

Away_Forever_8069

4 | 3 hours ago

Get jokic outta here

Giuseppe_exitplan | Magic

17 | 4 hours ago

I believe he should DPOY, 1st team all defensive, 1st team all nba and if Shai doesnt make the games, MVP him as well.

HarryPauler | Timberwolves

2 | 4 hours ago

Ngl wemby winning mvp before Edwards is even talked about as a candidate will make me sad

thecrunchcrew | SAS

19 | 4 hours ago

Not to be a jerk, but Ant is #5 in MVP at best

GivesCredit | Warriors

4 | 3 hours ago

I’d put him at 4 honestly. He’s somehow becoming underrated right now

HarryPauler | Timberwolves

2 | 3 hours ago

he hasn’t cracked top 7 at least this year. Fricken Cade and Chet are or have been above him, and he’s 3rd in the nba in ppg

No shade to cade.

n7ripper | Spurs

4 | 3 hours ago

Chet? no way… he’s a bum… just ask Wemby

HarryPauler | Timberwolves

2 | 3 hours ago

And yet basketball reference believes he’s better than ant. Yes I know that’s a bad site to be going off of for this but it’s still out there

Giuseppe_exitplan | Magic

1 | 4 hours ago

Same, I want to give Ant his flowers but Wemby is coming up so quickly.

moby323 | 76ers

13 | 5 hours ago

I just want to see this team compete in the playoffs and don’t really care about individual awards

aoiefoaiwe | Cavaliers

8 | 5 hours ago

DPOY, MVP, 1st Team All-NBA

Account-Forgot | Spurs

6 | 4 hours ago

You. I like you.

Phenomenal2313 | Raptors

5 | 4 hours ago

A lock for DPOY , All-NBA and All-Defense

Wemby could probably win 5 DPOY’s and it wont be enough

Jack_The_Sparrow_ | Warriors

4 | 4 hours ago

1st team all NBA, DPOY, 4NW, NBTA, BBC, MVP, 6MOY, MIP, NBC, and CBS

Life_Teaching6499 | Lakers

2 | 3 hours ago

What about CNN?

Frequent_Onion7847

4 | 4 hours ago

Just give him DPOY, if he miss it again due to injury they should atleast review their current rule for eligibility.. Getting injured due to unsportsmanlike fouls or even if non contact injury is not the players fault..

Fit-Bluejay2216

6 | 3 hours ago

Everything he can but mvp. The scoring gap is almost 10 ppg people

dreamweaver7x | Spurs

5 | an hour ago

The defensive gap between Victor and second place (whoever that is, and it’s not Jokic or Shai) is as wide as the gap between second place and Luka.

Plus counting stats - Vic is 5th in rebounds and is way ahead of #2 Chet in blocks per game, 3.1 vs 1.9.

I don’t think Vic wins even if we catch OKC for overall #1, but it will be interesting to see how many votes he gets.

JaggedFlamingo257

4 | 4 hours ago

DPOY

1st Team All-Defense

1st Team All-NBA

Top 5 MVP

T44120 | Spurs

4 | 2 hours ago

Not 16 only 15

Bjj-RG

3 | 5 hours ago

Is he a candidate for comeback player of the year after that blood clot issue?

CommunityGlittering2

3 | 4 hours ago

all of them

slowdownyoucrazy

2 | 3 hours ago

MVP, DPOY, 1st All NBA / All Defense

TwoTalentedBastidz | Lakers

1 | 2 hours ago

Yerp

Salamat_osu

2 | 3 hours ago

Give him the DPOY that he has been deserving of for the past 3 years already.

karma_dumpster | Australia

1 | 4 hours ago

Short man of the year

GDiz3016

1 | 4 hours ago

BLOCKS leader trophy, Defensive Player of the Year trophy…for sure. It would be awesome for more, it would be 💪 no matter what they are.

Ok_Reason_2357

1 | 3 hours ago

DPOY is shoe in.
second team all nba at worst,
all defense for sure.

XiaoRCT | Thunder

1 | 3 hours ago

DPOY and a top 5 MVP, all star too

Front_Brilliant2949 | 76ers

1 | 3 hours ago

MVP. For his defense alone.

Riskybusiness622

1 | 3 hours ago

Dpoy, first team nba and defense. Easy question.

Away_Forever_8069

1 | 3 hours ago

Mvp

NiceNewBlueTarp

1 | 2 hours ago

DPOY, and top 5 MVP candidate. If Jokic, Doncic and SGA aren’t eligible for MVP, I think it goes to VW.

dmista21 | SAS

1 | 2 hours ago

Im biased af but honestly DPOY and MVP. His impact on defense alone is more than anyones by a mile. He literally changes the game.

C01NB4TH | Thunder

1 | an hour ago

A croissant 🥐

Matias9991

1 | an hour ago

Without a doubt DPOY

And first or second team All-NBA.

TopCoast1170

1 | an hour ago

Lock for first

Matias9991

1 | an hour ago

Shai, Jokic, Luka, Cade, Wemby?

I think those five are the best of the season for now so yes, I would get him to first team.

Inaynl | Mavericks

1 | an hour ago

Knowing his attitude, he’s definitely aiming to get that eligibility for awards. Easily DPOY & 1st team all defense.

dreamweaver7x | Spurs

1 | an hour ago

He will win all the baguettes in France.

Only_Composer830

1 | an hour ago

Everything

V17R | Thunder

1 | an hour ago

He’s a lock for DPOY and All NBA / All Defense

StealYoBall | Suns

1 | an hour ago

MVP

onelazypanda

1 | 31 minutes ago

Prob the key to the city and a statue

kj114 | Hawks

1 | 13 minutes ago

Tallest Player

Imperial-Green

1 | 5 minutes ago

MVP. He might not be the best player in the league right now but I have never seen a guy change the geometry of a professional sport like Wemby does and the change results in winning. He is the most valuable player ever.

No_Access9886

0 | 4 hours ago

If he goes insane these last few games, sleeper for MVP, he’s my pick, his impact on and off the court is just so evident when watching. Obvious DPOY and all nbas first teams galore.

BBallHunter | Thunder

0 | 2 hours ago

Such a stupid rule man.

Some people here really wanna convince me that Wemby who has such an amazing season should not even be eligible for awards like even for All NBA if he ends up playing 64 games? That’s just being pedantic for the sake of it.

What’s the difference between 64 games and 65 games? Not a single vote? This will do nothing but be the cause for whacky looking All NBA teams. You guys should listem to Blake who recently said that the rule should be abolished. He’s right. Something will happen when inevitably we have too many cases of superstars missing the cut-off point by just 1 or 2 games.

When it comes to defense only, everyone would take Wemby for 64 or 63 games over basically anybody for 70 games or something.

That’s how you should think about awards. It just takes away the voter’s agency for literally no reason. Wemby was not being load managed. He had legit injuries.

SignificantNatural11

0 | an hour ago

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

Life_Teaching6499 | Lakers

-1 | 3 hours ago

All of them.

Not kidding, except maybe MVP.

DPOY should be a lock. All-NBA and All-Defensive First Teams should also be locks.

Nuggets fans, Jokic can be a better player than Wemby but right now, up to this point this season, Jokic and the Nuggets aren’t having a better season than Wemby and the Spurs.

Admirable_Let_2961

-2 | 3 hours ago

Honestly I think he is the MVP. Their records amazing and he changes the way people attack the Spurs. He is their structure.

TwoTalentedBastidz | Lakers

-1 | 2 hours ago

MVP AND DPOY

Eagle_Collector

-1 | 2 hours ago

The only reason they won’t give Wemby the MVP this year is because he’s likely to win it four or five times over the next 10 years.

WinterCareful8525

-2 | 4 hours ago

MVP. I don’t think he will though

Top-Lane-Bad

-3 | 3 hours ago

I know people want Wemby to win DPOY but I think what Chet is doing from the PF position is insane. It’s a lot harder to have an impact from there than from C. But I get why people want Wemby. He has the counting stats. But defensive rating wise they’re not far off from one another.

countryroyale | Nuggets

-2 | 3 hours ago

I’m team Wemby for MVP

Life_Teaching6499 | Lakers

1 | 2 hours ago

Flair doesn’t check out.

supercoolisaac | Timberwolves

-10 | 4 hours ago

Gobert should win DPOY but voters wont give him another unless there’s nobody to give it to. If Wemby played more games/minutes he wins I think but it shouldn’t be this year (he will almost certainly win if eligible though).

thecrunchcrew | SAS

5 | 4 hours ago

How is Rudy a more valuable defender than Wemby

EnigmaOfOz

4 | 4 hours ago

You are going to find few agree with this view. Stats aren’t everything but dbpm for rudy this year is 0.9. His best ever season was 2.8. Wemby is 3.8 (not a record). He looks every bit the greatest defender in history with his influence.

Ittenvoid | Spurs

1 | 3 hours ago

Rudy shouldn’t have half the DPOY’s he does what are you on about lmao

If Victor Wembanyama plays 16 of the Spurs last 19 games, he is eligible for awards. What do you think he should win if he plays 16 games?