Doris Burke after Anthony Edwards gets called for the push off: “I’m gonna be honest with you. Oklahoma City fans are going to start hating on me right now. How many times does Shai get away with that exact kind of [play].”
The main problem that everyone has for OKC has always been the perception that you can’t touch Shai but Caruso/dort/ what have you can play super physically.
Biased ofc
That’s the problem that teams have with OKC too. OKC was practically designed to make opponents crash out or give up/check out.
Especially mentally strong teams stand a chance tho.
the Oklahoma City Ragebaiters
The genius in their system is that they cracked the reffing game completely. It’s super cynical but also effective:
They exploit refs being whistle happy protecting the offensive dribbler with Shai milking dozens if not hundreds of free throws per game.
They exploit refs being whistle-averse everywhere else so the game will flow, which allows Caruso/Dort/etc. to basically play football on defense, with full body slams, tackles, wrestling grabs etc. on players who are off the ball.
They maximize both sides of the refball, which drives other teams (and fans who want entertainment…) crazy.
Good analysis imo. Makes me think of how Steph gets absolutely manhandled when he doesn’t have the ball sometimes
It’s like the refs only have eyes to what happens on-ball. I wish they’d just accept remote assistance like they do in other sports. The NBA is way too fast with too much simultaneous action going.
Or just add an extra ref or two. If we all agree the game is faster now than it used to be then we should look into better avenues to ensure good competition. Inconsistent refereeing with the massive gambling sponsorships makes it so hard to enjoy games now.
Just tell Silver he can put ads on the refs watch how fast it happens
Gambling ads on a refs uniform would be too on the nose.
Yeah there’s zero reason not to have a ref at each corner of the half court
i remember back when the nba just had 2 refs per game.
That one always confused me as someone who was usually rooting against Golden State. It’s like, Steph is an incredible player, extremely positive face for the league, fun to watch etc. and THATS THE GUY YOU ARE CHOOSING TO FUCK OVER? We’re just gonna let Draymond run wild, let KD carry on every play, let all the other guys use moving screens constantly, but yeah let’s just fuck over the one guy who least deserves that kind of treatment. I’ve never considered him a flopper either so it just doesn’t make sense to me.
Maybe Steph has a secret deal with Silver. Silver let Draymond gets away with the shit he does because Draymond can’t help himself. In return, Steph will take the shit he gets to balance things out.
I’m joking of course, but the reality of Steph not being protected makes even less sense.
“Secret deal with Silver” aside, this is a longstanding theory and maybe the only one that makes sense.
TBH if refs called fouls against Curry like they should (not even superstar treatment), I think there’s a solid case he’s the GOAT.
He’d average an extra 8-10 ppg and no doubt would’ve won another Championship/FMVP imo.
hundreds of free throws per game
…bait?
He’s called FTA for a reason
Accurate
hundreds of free throws per game is hilarious “and Shai, with an amazing game from the line, shooting 313 for 320 on the night as the Thunder lead the Rockets 422-88”
the OKC people with teeth
that’s pretty funny
They can only be “designed” that way because the refs don’t call them the same on both sides.
This is why Wemby is their father. His time with the monks made him too unshakable to fall for their tricks…except for Chet. Wemby hates that man lmao
Wemby also has to flail and flop all over, or else no foul will be called on him.
Spurs, Nuggets, & Pacers seem to understand not to crash out nor get disengaged against OKC. Just play on. Keep moving onto the next play.
I think Ant & the T-Wolves learned the lesson this year. Counterintuitively, I think Finch’s crashout was intentional. Fully crashing out on the players’ behalf can help players feel heard & help them to focus on just playing ball. Seen many good coaches do this over the years.
I genuinely thought in our series your defenders rose to that challenge and gave nearly as good as they got. The only pacer player that didnt seem to know how to approach the line without going to far over was Mathurin.
I agree.
Still hate SGAs foul baiting but in terms of physical play and defensive non calls I think that was a great and decently even series
Except game 4’s officiating of Dort and Caruso (or lack thereof) I agree.
And the game 7 moment when McConnell was literally getting held with two hands and gestured to the ref mid-play before turning the ball over.
They weren’t winning that game but that play was egregious.
We are too, the difference is that we get called for fouls more than any team in the league (which is fair, to be clear) while OKC is 20th.
Agreeing with Doris Burke is this sub’s 911. Lmao
when Doris is telling the truth you know you fucked up
Doris isn’t even that dumb she’s just a chronic glazer and has an grating voice to many
Doris has a better basketball playing resume than 99.9% of this sub, and better knowledge than at least 90%.
this sub is full of dweebs who don’t even watch basketball, they’re just here for male drama
90 percent of the sub probably didn’t even watch the game
can’t stand this sub for genuinely ragging on her because she loves basketball and has a voice that isn’t generic man. this same place rags on barkley for not glazing the players enough. which is it. this is embarrassing.
Exactly. I don’t really give a shit about SGA, but if your role players get to assault my team, then I’m gonna call SGA a fraud.
And it’s completely valid. You can’t so much as blow air on him while his teammates try to injure your teams best player and get away with it.
Yeah, I feel like certain players and teams get the reputation of being tough and gritty defenders, and the refs let them get away with much more contact than others.
Wolves fans have experienced an extreme example of this watching KAT get called for every off arm foul while gobert is allowed to do whatever he wants with his low arm on contests.
Yup. Raja Bell has a story he tells about Kobe. This is 100% true and the players who get that benefit of the doubt know it.
To keep it short. Raja and Kobe got into it. Kobe subsequently told the ref to ‘call it even’.
Didn’t Raja also have a story about how Kobe picked up a 3rd foul in the 2nd quarter? Then began to start playing super physical and foul like crazy because he knew the refs wouldn’t dare call the 4th before halftime.
Nuggets fans agree man, W take
They’re new money so people aren’t up in arms about it but the pistons are the same mold
The problem with OKC is that it not called the same on both ends, the Pistons mug everyone but do they get a whistle where you can’t mug them back in return? that is the big issue with OKC.
Pistons literally get called for the most fouls per game in the league though
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but that doesn’t necessarily disprove their point if you’re still fouling way more than are called.
Not biased. Very accurate. And everyone outside of okc will agree
That’s was my thing in our series with them. Caruso would beat on Jokic and nothing would be called then SGA would get a much more friendly whistle. I don’t think he’s nearly as bad as prime Harden, trae, or Luka about flopping but it would be nice for equal calls.
Exactly, you can’t hack and flop at the same time and keep the goodwill of the broader audience.
I used to speak about this when I was coaching and training referees, but we’re looking at the unconscious effect of reputation on officials. Shai is an incredible ball-handler who famously can create significant space just off his own dribble, so often when he does push-off the referee subconsciously assumes he’s just effectively created space. Dort and Caruso are known to be agile, strong defenders with good hands so when they get a stop, it’s assumed that it was probably good D. It’s also why you see guys like Wemby and Gobert get away with so many goaltends (they’re great shot-blockers, so the refs subconsciously assume they got to it), why Draymond and Luka get away with the amount of yelling they do in games, and why guys like Harden have always gotten away with such shifty footwork - the refs know he’s wildly talented with creative footwork and in the moment, are left to assume that what he’s done is legal.
My favourite example to bring up is actually Lebron’s chase down block. Some of his most famous chase downs have been - by the rulebook - goaltends. “Blocked by James” was a goaltend by the rulebook because in a frame-by-frame review of the footage, hand-ball-backboard contact all occurs at the same time which is specifically called out in the rules as a goaltend. By a combination of Lebron’s reputation for making it in time for that block and a little rule of cool, it was never called.
💯
SGA will get free throws for even the perception of contact and then you’ll see Dort crawling into someone’s jersey. It’s seeing the double standard in the same game that’s infuriating.
She’s not wrong
This post is like cocaine for r/nba. OKC isn’t even playing
Just put the flair on bro, you’re top 1%
I’m a Cavs fan
your shame is noted
Put the cavs flair on
r/nba fan discovers time and object permanence
700 upvoted in 20 min. This sub is seriously just haters. So unserious
these guys flock to OKC hate like flies to shit it’s genuinely funny to watch. I’m rooting for OKC to win it again just to watch this place seethe
That might be the lamest reason to root for a team of all time
Doris a karma farmer for sure
She been talking about it for like 45 minutes now.
So she has been correct for 45 straight minutes
They hated Doris because she told them the truth
Extremely rare Doris W
Good.
She glazed him nonstop about it last year and switched up now that it’s cool to hate on SGA
She loves that “free throw merchant”.
She isn’t really hating on him though, she’s hating on the refs.
????? he’s been getting hate all last season too. mention mvp race and everyone becomes rabid
Longtime heel Doris Burke finally making a face turn.
Push offs, so hot right now
“Back in my day-”
And the great thing is, doesn’t matter the day, Jordan’s infamous shot in the finals vs the Jazz, Kobe on countless plays, Tatum, SGA and many others today.
Reggie Miller blatantly pushing MJ for the game winner in ‘98 didn’t get called as well
Loved that Jordan didn’t start bitching, just took the L and destroyed Indiana later
[removed]
Tatum better be glad he’s hurt rn
It’s not like I needed anything more to hate OKC. Every day it’s another dirty play or some other fuckery with this team on its own.
SGA gonna start hitting us with the Blue Steel after an and 1
To be fair, this is full extension. If you keep the arm bent, you are less likely to get called.
The defender pulled the arm. That’s the “counterplay” for pushoffs.
the metagame is evolving
I’m surprised we don’t see more Wemby tickles. That was honestly brilliant. Not enough contact for a foul, but definitely very disruptive in messing with the person being tickled.
blowing in Lebron’s ear ahh type of play
Can’t wait for Heated Rivalry: Basket Balls
Ban counterspell
They never seem to get that with shai, i guess you gotta be able to grab the guys wrist and pull it out
Fully extension because Murray is literally holding his hand.
If someone pushes off enough, the defender needs to hold their hand and marry them. If fouls ain’t being called I demand some romance at least.
The fact that the rule is based on keeping the arm bent and not how much force you move the defender away with is ludicrous though, you are telling players to train to push off hard with the should and upper arm, which players like SGA have trained themselves to do specifically, when the rule should just be you can’t shove the defenders out of the way, period.
Yeah because it’s incredibly difficult to accurately gauge the amount of force being used with a bent arm during live action, but refs can easily see full extension, so that’s what gets called.
Especially with how defenders will often exaggerate the slightest bit of contact.
Because its not about force its about technique. Full extension enters the realm of holding a defender, keeping them from legal guarding position. If they aren’t in legal guarding position, you can bump them very hard. Hence the ideal of a Lebron or Giannis drive. Its similar to how you can’t wrap your arm around someone on a post spin. Once you do, you enter the realm of holding someone.
We don’t need to remove pushing defenders through legal force because the lines are already drawn.
Full on forearm grab by Murray.
The refs have been wildly inconsistent on that. They’ve 100% allowed the bent arm push offs but in the Celtics-Lakers game they allowed Jaylen Brown and Peyton Pritchard to do this like 7 times with full extension and no call (remember Pritchard’s “ankle breaker” on Vando?). The next game Luka was shoving Orlando defenders the same way with no call. Now I see this called on Ant, and the weak shoulder bump called on KAT vs Wemby. This is not an OKC thing, it’s league-wide and frustratingly inconsistent.
Yeah they let that shit go most times but when you give the full stiff arm they kinda have to call it kind of like opi where they let receivers push defenders but not fully extend the arm
that’s exactly right lol. chicken wing shoves aren’t called, full extensions are. they’ve been pretty consistent with that
Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made A Great Point
Dorris Burke don’t make me like you
I don’t understand how it’s a push off when Murray is holding Ant’s hand against his stomach. His arm extends because Murray is pulling on it?
They’ve been grabbing Edward’s wrists all game. jokic has done it a couple times too.
His name definitely isn’t Edward
Smh
This looks like an adjustment to how defenders are guarding against the push-off. The current interpretation of the rule seems to allow push-offs if the ball handler doesn’t extend the forearm. So grabbing the wrist forces the extension of forearm and makes it appear like a rule violation.
An effective countermeasure, to be fair.
Thats the bigger issue here imo. Dont know how they dont call Murray grabbing onto it
They literally acknoweldged that the hand grab is a RESULT of the offensive foul.. thus the offensive foul is called first..
But how do they even make that determination? If he steps back obviously his arm is going to extend out if it’s being held. IMO whack call, should just be nothing
Ant pushes first, THEN Murray holds onto his hand to keep balance and avoid falling. You can disagree but that’s how the refs saw it.
Remember you need to be certain to overturn a call. In doubt, the call on the floor stands.
Except that based on how it gets called, the push off is only a foul if the arm gets fully extended, and the only reason why Ant’s arm got fully extended was Murray grabbed it, so Murray fouled Ant first.
Unless a push off is a foul now without requiring a full arm extension, in which case SGA’s favorite move is now an offensive foul.
Honestly looks like ant only fully extended his arm because of Murray grabbing his hand. Otherwise he wouldn’t have fully extended it and it wouldn’t be a push off imo.
The lush happens first. You see the part where ant moves his arm away from his body? That’s him pushing. Murray briefly grabs the arm but doesn’t pull any. He lets go instead.
So lush
Its because he fully extends his arm.
Which is absolutely a foul. Murray is allowed to touch him (cant see if its grabbing him from this angle).
They need to start calling sga for it though.
Of course OKC fans will hate when a national commentator targets their star player like this. The likes of LeBron, PG13, Giannis and Kawhi have been spamming pushoffs with the off arm since before SGA got in to the league. Jordan was doing it over 30 years ago. It is something that everyone does, and has done for decades. Hardly anyone gets called for it, except in the most egregious cases (like this one)
yeah idk why SGA gets singled out when basically everyone pushes off atp, Tatum and Brown are my guys but they do it all the time lol. the issue is that refs pick and choose when to call offensive fouls for it
she legit hates SGA. I don’t know if she’s gotten too internet pilled but calling him a foul merchant in the finals last year was absurd. And it hasn’t stopped this year either.
It’s wild. I hear a lot of talk about how much she glazes him but that doesn’t really seems to be what I’ve heard from her much.
As a thunder fan, I can tell you she does not glaze SGA. She is a full on SGA hater.
Simple minded people thinking process: “I dont like her” “I dont like Shai” “She must love Shai”
It’s not really glaze, not sure if this is the correct word but it felt very passive aggressive. Calling him a free throw merchant in the finals but spinning it like a positive. She 100% knows it’s a negative term but she can’t do that on broadcast. So say it anyways but try to be positive about it lol
SGA gets singled out because he is arguably the best player in the NBA. When you have that kind of pull and spotlight you’re in the collective consciousness. Every one of his ilk catches strays in all sports—in the MLB it’s Shohei, in the NFL it’s Mahomes, and so on. Once you reach the shortlist you’re always in the discussion, fair or not, positive or negative.
Strange that Jokic gets relatively little scrutiny in comparison given that he’s been at worst a top-2 player in the league for over half the decade now
I agree he’s over-protected! You’ll see people criticize his effort and flopping, but not nearly as much as they should. Especially because he plays dogshit defense. So yeah, agree with you there.
The same people that criticize him are the ones who arent fans (heavily against the grain in here). His fans will defend every flop, dirty or poor play of his no matter what
Immediately thought of Kawhi, but it’s true. Everyone does it
It’s like holding in the NFL. If the refs called it everytime it happens it would happen numerous times every game
Exactly. You want hard playing defense with the defender getting up in the ball handlers grill? It means you are going to need to allow for some degree of pushing off for the offensive player to create space for themselves. It is why they only punish the full arm extensions. Otherwise the flow of the game would be totally messed up.
The push off and no-call is like Tatum’s signature move
Tatum Brown SGA PG13 Kawhi
If you’re a star wing/taller guard that drives a lot there’s a good chance this is a big part of your arsenal
He taught Jaylen Brown well.
Brown does it every play now
Let ‘em hate. She’s right.
Facts. Keep it consistent.
Let’s not pretend that this is a one time thing from Doris. She was actively cheering against OKC in the playoffs.
Meh every ball dominant guard gets away with that 5 times a game.
Just a matter of when the ref gets the nuts to call it.
Murray got a free throw for pushing off later it would be nice if it was atleast balanced
Oh shit she’s aware of those plays, just wait until she realizes what Tatum does every time he gets the ball with a dribble
Don’t look at what PP does too closely either, my boy would never push off /s
I have no idea why Tatum gets singled out by this sub for push offs more than anyone else. Shai does it just as often as Tatum, if not more
So many people do, lol. It’s been a thing forever. Singling out anyone for this is silly
If we are calling out our Celtics… Jaylen is an egregious user of the lead arm push off
But that’s the NBA today… You create space either by pushing off or running into your defender to get him backpedaling.
It’s so weird to be bringing up OKC and SGA in a completely different game that they’re not involved in.
It clearly works for engagement. 700 upvotes in 20 min in a game okc aren’t even playing is insane
Mentioning the best team and player in the NBA is a guaranteed way to get clicks and attention
Every star in the NBA charges and pushes-off. It is not exclusively a Shai thing.
I noticed this when Tatum, who has a reputation for getting away with push offs, got called for a couple in the Knicks series last year. Its reffed so inconsistently that the rule feels bullshit when it actually gets called.
Yes but singling out SGA is the hip thing right now and gets the clicks and the people going. As evident with this post and its reactions alone.
hes singled out for a proven and standing reason lol
Shai never extends his arm like that much man can yall be fr
People see what they want to atp
Negative about OKC? Straight to the sub no matter how wrong or pointless it is. Literally a commentator mentioning SGA in a game theyre not playing.
Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think SGA sticks his arm out like that. He pushes his body into the defender. It’s an offensive foul but a different motion
Not a full push ‘98 MJ style, but his handle is nuts so he gets people off balance, then does the chicken wing forearm push to clear a huge space.
But this isn’t a chicken wing, this is an extension lmao
he’s talking about Shai.
you’re right, this is full extension and always called a foul. Shai, when he extends too far (like this) has been called for the foul too.
I don’t think it would have extended so far if his hand wasn’t being held
Every player does this
But Ant gets called for it, Murray did the same thing tonight no call. Ant is too strong for his own good
Correction. Murray got free throws
SGA does more of a chicken wing thing. Edwards did a full extension there.
Here we go again. Shai doesnt even have to play to get hate
Also are you guys even watching the clip. Show me one clip of shai getting away with a full elbow extension like that
“When the worst person you know makes a great point.”
Popularity contest machine hard at work.
Why the NBA is so inconsistent with these types of plays is odd to me. If you use your off ball arm as a shield, and/or push off…. offensive foul.
Shield is what your coached to do, the push off is the foul
Its funny literally yesterday there was a post about how Bias’d Burke is and glazes SGA.
Bias’d
why did you write it like that lol
Hahaha r/nba confused who they hate more now, SGA or nasty woman announcer, ya love to see it
When given the chance, the internet will always default to hating the woman
Not in this thread.
Relax Doris, everyone already hates you
she’s a grown woman doing her job. why would she care about you online nerds lmao
I mean she literally got taken off the finals because she’s so ass. So you’re wrong?
Lmao I cant wait to see the streams of tears flowing from this sub when Shai wins his second MVP
I’d love to see when the last time SGA fully extended his arm like that without getting called for an offensive foul. Like I’m sure it has happened, but nowhere close to a nightly occurrence
Like, his entire game is under a microscope, so you know if he got away with a push off that egregious it’d get posted here and I haven’t seen one of those kinda posts in quite a while.
That’s the thing, people act like Shai pushes off or flops on every single play. The guy has probably 30 possessions a game and only the 1-2 bad ones will get any attention.
He doesn’t extend his arm that’s the difference. SGA has mastered offensively fouling to make space without getting called because of it.
Literally every top offensive player does this
A couple times this season he’s gotten called for it and they get clipped and reach the front page lmao
SGA isnt nearly the worst and there are countless others who do it all game like Brunson, Tatum, Luka, Lamelo etc…
Six THOUSAND upvotes in 2 hours. You all are just incredible, lol.
I guess a combination of winning and being a smaller population state like oklahoma will do that. This sub is so biased
Shouldn’t we expect a little more professionalism on an official NBA broadcast? I don’t know, maybe it’s just me but I feel like other sports don’t regularly have announcers trashing the best players and teams. I’ve never seen an announcer say “how many times has Mahomes gotten that call” after a non roughing the passer call in football or saying “how many times does Ohtani hit a homerun from that pitch” when Judge strikes out in baseball,. In fact it’s usually the opposite problem with them hyping up greatness too much that annoys people. The NBA just feels so toxic and so many of the media personalities are feeding into it and creating a negative feedback loop.
I’d argue Tatum and Brown get away with it just as much, if not more than SGA, but what do I know.
Fuck OKC
Nah Shai isn’t as blatant. There’s a difference in technique. But also yeh, superstars get different treatment. Jokic is one of the dirtiest players in the league and gets away with it.
Doris. Its not just OKC fans that are hating you.
The Jaylen Brown special
You would think that agreeing with Doris Burke would make some people in here question their delusions but we all know that’s not going to happen.
Ok but it’s not just Shai man. So many players do it
Ant gets away with these every game. This time he happened to get called for it, but now since Doris decided to make it an OKC issue everyone is acting like Ant is a victim lmao. Shai gets called for it sometimes too believe it or not, a couple times he’s gotten called for it it makes the front page of this sub!
Also Ant fully extended his arm, they’re gonna call that every time. But people wanna act like Shai gets away with stiff arming defenders every play when he usually initiates with the shoulder bump first. This would require people to watch games and understand basketball though.
The biggest thing with push offs is if the arm is fully extended or not…when you extend as much as Ant does here, it’s going to get called.
But also fuck the Thunder and how they are officiated.
Rent free
A lot of guys do it. Refs only call it if the defender flies back or flops.
But yea SGA is extra violent with his off arm