6’11” Alperen Sengun has a TS% of 55.2% this season, 3rd worst of any qualified 20 PPG scorer after Dillon Brooks and Shaedon Sharpe
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/player/alperen-sengun-10297
It’s insane how inefficient he is for a big man
Remember those first few weeks of the season when people were saying Sengun was the rockets best player because of PRA lol
He looked ridiculous in the first game of the season. 5⁄8 from 3 and 39 points
wasnr he on a heater for like 5 games then really regressed with 3 point shooting
It was kinda just 1 game. In game 1, he made 5 threes; in his next 7 games combined, he made 5 threes.
If you remove that single game, his 3P% drops from 29.5% to 26.4%
holy hell
You really did just cherry pick “for the next 7”. Games 9, 10 and 11 he went 7⁄10 from 3. So over the first 11 games he was shooting 45% on 3.5 attempts per game
Even removing game 1 and using games 2-11 he’s shooting 41% on 3 attempts per game lol.
I’m not trying to say he’s a great shooter, just showing context and proving it wasn’t “just 1 game”. 11 game sample size of 22/10/7.5 on 50/45/80 splits is good. We didn’t overreact, he started playing significantly worse.
I wouldn’t be shocked if the kd drama got out earlier to the team than expected. From Dec 3 to Jan 16 he went 1⁄20 from 3. Jesus
Over on the Rockets sub our homer take is that his ankle injury on January 3 was worse than let on and he played through it and still is to bad results.
Maybe that’s cope but split the season there and there’s a massive difference in his play. We had thought he took a major step forward this season before then.
Until then he was 22 ppg on 51% shooting and 31% from 3. Since then he’s 18 ppg on 48% shooting and 25% from 3. Pre injury he wasn’t great but tried shooting 3s a little. He’s basically stopped shooting 3s after the injury. Even his FT% dropped from 73% before the injury to 63% after the injury.
Again, maybe cope and the first 28 games of the season did not represent a real step forward, but the contrasts before and after the injury are stark.
He only has 1 other game with more than two 3s made. That first game had Houston fooled.
reminds me of Zions first nba game, which was against us, immediately came in and splashed like 3 3 pointers, i was like “well league fucked”
i was…..incorrect
He made four in four tries, and then barely ever even attempted that many again. No idea what the hell happened
In a league where people chuck 3s he decided it’s a waste of possession if he misses one as if missing a 2 isn’t.
To be fair he barely ever missed a 2, and rebounded like half of his rare misses. For 2 years he was playing like prime Barkley.
and rebounded like half of his rare misses. For 2 years he was playing like prime Barkley.
Zions total RPG number compared to his ORPG numbers will always piss me tf off. I know he fans watching probably care about stats more than a lot of these players, but he could easily be a 9-10 rebound per game player if he hunted defensive rebounds like prime Westbrook. I feel like not chasing those stats impacts his team negatively
Prime Barkley wouldve been the best player in the league easily, he was not on that level at all.
What do you expect? PRA merchants usually don’t watch basketball. 😂
Scottie Barnes > KD, murray however PRA
If Sengun has anything to hang his hat on this year it’s that he and his idol have both played OKC 2+ times and he still has far and away the best performance between them vs. that defense
That might be the only thing he has this year though
It’s also funny because he’s often compared to Jokic when they literally represent two opposite extremes of the efficiency spectrum
He’s not even better than Chet
Chet has a significantly easier job but he is certainly more impactful to winning regardless
Chet isn’t the focal point of offense in OKC.
We all saw what happened when he had to play like one. It wasn’t pretty.
His job is playing D and capitalizing on open looks, and that’s fine. But let’s not act like he is Aldridge or Detroit Blake Griffin on offense.
I’ll take efficient third option on offense and top-2 defender in the league over high usage, high stat, low efficiency scorer with average defence
Is he a better defender than Rudy? I’m not even trying to talk shit, I’m just curious
Career wise absolutely not but this year, probably.
If wemby qualifies he’s dpoy but if wemby doesn’t qualify, Chet is betting favorite
Still you overpaid that third option imo
Not my money lol. If we are competing for the next 5 championships it’s well worth it.
Well you are right, with this type of money if he does not deliver, you can actually trade him or Jdub for someone like Giannis considering the amount of draft capitals Thudner has. From this perspective it actually makes sense like win win either way
I don’t think him and Chet really play alike for this kind of comparison. I like him more but have you seen how rough it is when Chet is a creator? It’s like when people would compare Klay and DeMar
But you’d say Klay is better than demar wouldn’t you
That’s a ridiculously terrible analogy
Chet helps you win games, sengun helps you win fantasy
I mean Sengun was 2nd seed last season as the first option.
I also don’t see the same criticism for other low TS% players that everyone knows are good, like Paolo, Dillon Brooks, and Scottie Barnes.
Paolo gets wayyyyyyy more hate for his bad %s than Sengun does.
Dillon Brooks isn’t at their level so doesn’t get commented on an much either way.
Scottie is more known for his defence so I guess som people give him a bit more of a pass for weak offense
All most any time Paolo comes up here I see people shitting on him for being inefficient
Dillon and Scottie are elite defenders and Paolo gets shit on online all the time too
He’d be third string on the spurs
This true fact is being downvoted
Their playstyle is literally the same except Jokic is an extreme outlier who is efficient on awful inefficient shots and is a much better shooter
Their playstyle can’t be more different, my g
Apart from behind the back passes, they’ve got nothing in common.
What are you even talking about dude?
They are both big ol’ white eastern Europeans, so they play exactly the same
Turkish player Eastern European
Turkish player
Eastern European
You what?
If you’re big, white, and don’t have an accent someone in middle America could recognize, you’re eastern European. Did you really not know this?
The other day I learned that Portugal wasn’t in South America
I have seen it pointed out that Brazil is carrying Portuguese as a language with popular perception and cultural impact but still funny that someone would mistake the countries themselves
The /r/nba Centre for Redditors Who Can’t Geography Good and Who Wanna Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too
center*
You have no idea how ironic that is
Brother, I’m trolling lol I know how ironic it is. I did it on purpose😂
Fair enough lol. I live in Québec and my initial reaction was like “This isn’t even the only language I spell it like this”
Turkey has off and on been considered part of Europe, like Russia.
Sure. Southern Europe. At no point has it ever been considered Eastern European.
You’re right. I thought you were objecting to its inclusion in Europe at all. That’s my mistake:
Kinda like Russia it’s got parts that are in both but the boundary for Russia is less defined vs East Thrace being separated from Anatolia by the Bosporus straight
I wonder what a Balkan resident would say if you told them they’re Eastern European
“can’t be more different” of course they could.
Ball dominant big men who can control the offence from the elbow and are a threat to pass or shoot on any possession.
Not identical, sure, but if you were match Sengun with players in the league who had similar styles jokic is up there for sure
I think even if they were similar, you can’t discount whether you make your shots when you’re talking playstyle.
This is like saying some terrible 3pt chucker and curry have the same playstyle because the both jack up a bunch of bombs lol
Jokic is a legit 3 level scorer. Yes, he’s good at the rim but he can also shoot. You have to guard him close anywhere on the floor and be on guard against fancy passes from anywhere.
Sengun is limited to scoring at the rim and relies very heavily on post play.
Really the only similarity is they’re centers who like to make fancy passes.
Tbf that’s a pretty unique trait, not crazy that people make comparisons when that’s what they have in comon.
sengun stopped passing anymore, and his processing is so much slower than jokic
no it’s not. sengun does not have the post presence, nor the gravity (for passing or scoring)
He’s Sabonis.
He’s a much better defender than Sabonis
He also playmakes in a much more diverse set of spots on the floor compared to Sabonis. People see the assists and compare them but Sabonis is doing it way more off DHOs which has more in common with Bam
They are extremely different players. Sabonis finishes well and makes good decisions but really only has a few go to moves and can’t create shots unless it’s a wide open jumper or he gets an entry pass. Sengun is a lot more comfortable making creative passes and creating his own shot with a few dribbles but his finishing is poor and his post play is still a bit basic. In the playoffs Sengun showed he can’t be an efficient first option against good defense. Meanwhile Sabonis has showed literally no ability to take anything but what the defense gives him.
Alpi plays more like fat giannis than jokic, he drives and looks for cutting players. Jokic stands at the key and looks for teammates and plays the two man game with murray, he puts the ball on the ground way less and plays more off ball
I’ve always thought the best comp was Pau Gasol. He’s a big, but he plays very outside-in.
You can’t tell me the Jokic thing isn’t primarily about their skintone.
His second year he was at 15-9-4 on 60% TS. He’s been down almost every year since. He was only 20 as well in his second year.
Yep, Sengun is multiple tiers lower. Sengun is #92 in EPM
a non-shooting big man having such poor efficiency is so strange. the hype coming into this season for sengun was huge and he’s definitely a good player but he isn’t good enough to be a franchise player, i feel like it’d be a mistake to try and build around around him
He makes up for it with poor defense and the facilitating ability of a mid level point guard.
If he were a black American player, no jokic comps would happen.
i mean derik queen was getting baby jokic comps for a minute
Then quickly stopped.
Im not saying no black players ever get the comp, but Alp has had this for 5 years now and can’t make a 5 foot shot.
jokic comps are always super lazy
Theyre fat and white so folks will always compare them
Sengun isn’t fat at all
Fat?😂 Guard them
It’s up there with the KD comps.
tall and lanky with ANY ability to shoot and dribble? ah yea you gotta be the next KD for sure.
Jokic with diarrhea
What’s a black player comparison
The only reason people act like he’s good is cuz he’s white. Without modern day white supremacy, no one would care about him.
I’m assuming the only reason Jalen Green isn’t here is because he’s not 20 PPG? Guy is a certified chucker, and always has been.
Probably doesn’t qualify for league leaders considering he’s missed almost 40 games this season
Yeah I wonder what the qualifying amount of games was in the prompt
Definitely more than 12
He’s at 12 PPG at 44 TS%, insanity. Last year he was at 20 PPG at 54.4 TS%, which Sengun narrowly edged out with his 54.5 TS%.
He’s only played 12 games and pretty limited minutes tbf
I mean I wouldn’t want to give the guy any more minutes playing like that lol
most of his games/minutes have been the past few games with no Book/Brooks and returning from basically a full season of being injured. He’s got a little bit of leeway for now.
Sure he’s not playing well (never really has) but framing it like he’s been playing all year like that is disingenuous.
44% true shooting is insane. Maybe he’s just a fan of Jay Z’s 4:44?
Hey man we already got one guy on here leave us alone
You’re right. My apologies. Sorry about Brooks lmao.
he’s barely played,
Barely any games played but as a suns fan who didnt watch too much of the rockets in prior years, holy shit he should not be chucking it up so much. Without brooks and book i get it. But seeing brooks as bottom 2 scares me, didnt feel like his TS was so awful
didn’t realize brooks was this inefficient
You didn’t realize a known career inefficient chuker is inefficient?
I mean lowkey can’t blame u because he’s been getting praise but he’s the same player, even defensively he isn’t good and just runs around tricking people
Also look at his on/off team is better when he’s not on the floor. Crazy people were calling him an all star
This and the unefficient part arr both true for jaylen brown and he gets mvp talk
No Brooks true shooting is worse. Boston win Browns minutes by 5 points which is hardly bad
It’s mostly a sign of how little people actually cared about last year’s Rockets and this year’s Suns that Brooks’ PR did a 180 for changing really nothing but shot amount.
If anything the Rockets rehabbed his image he was way more efficient and played to his role last year. His FG% was low but over half of his takes were threes that he was converting at almost 40%. On the Suns he’s been more like his Memphis self but they were winning games and somebody on the roster has to take shots so people weren’t too worried about his efficiency because they needed him to take shots.
felt like every time i watched him he was a flamethrower but i never searched up his stats
He’s still a chucker, but I don’t know if you’re giving him enough credit for how much he sucked at scoring when he was in Memphis.
Bad take
He’s been a bricklayer his whole career…
Ignore Slosha. He’s been forced into a #1 role for much of this season due to the number of injuries plus lack of shot creation and is often the primary POA defender on top of it. He’s inefficient, but someone needs to be able to at least try to create their own shot to generate space for defenses to focus. Can’t assist for 100% of your shots. Which is why without him, Booker, and Green being a total ghost, we scored only 77 against the Blazers, 81 against the Celtics, and only 113 against the Lakers.
Suns +0.1 net with him on, +5.6 off
Scoreboard watching vs actually watching games.
Brooks is in to guard the best player. When he’s off, it’s usually backup v backups. Our high end talent levels is almost always at a severe disadvantage against real teams even with everyone healthy, which we have not been at all. But our depth is good, especially when it comes to guards. They do well against other role players until their star checks back in and starts eating the role players up.
He is also by far our best at getting rim pressure and one of only three that can in the first place. Everyone else is either too small or have to be set up. He is also willing to actually take the iso shots that role players will balk at doing which is why without him and Book, we can’t even crack 90 points many nights.
Brooks shouldn’t be the 1st or 2nd option. But we’re winning because he has stepped up to fill a role a lot larger than he should be playing. And everyone has followed suit. It’s not a long term option, but that’s not the point this year.
Team 21.8 rim freq when he’s on vs 21.5 off
Able to generate his own rim pressure to collapse the defense vs needing someone to assist. Two very different styles of play that result in two different reactions from the defense. Numbers and context, such an interesting combination.
Thats kinda the point. He’s not a first option and is super inefficient when he’s playing thst role. That being said, I dont think anyone’s “forcing” him to do it. He loves it lmao
Posting stats without context is not a good argument by the way.
He’s won us a lot of games and his effect cannot be captured in plus minus, and overall his value to the team goes beyond that. That being said I don’t think it’s going to be sustainable long term and he does need to be smarter and stop forcing when his shot isn’t there. Guys like Gillespie and Allen know how to contribute as role players when the shot is cold, Brooks needs to learn from them
He takes the same amount of shots as Devin Booker when they play together because he’s a moron who thinks he’s Kobe, they both take 17 shots when playing together and he shoots awfully even with Booker
He throws up clunkers that just kill his efficiency, he’ll have a game going like 4-18 and then be solid scoring wise for a couple of games and then have a brutal clunker again. His bad nights are just atrocious and especially with all the injuries we had he was being forced to chuck more and get worse quality shots and it started tanking his efficiency
He doesn’t even impact the game, suns +0.1 net with him on, +5.6 off
He literally got traded out of Memphis and blamed for their playoff loss to the Lakers because of his inefficiency lol
Yet these are the guys people say are better players than KD for Rockets. 😂
Wonder if the rockets think about trading him
They’re gonna have to pick either him or amen.
The thing is Amen might not be the guy either. Him not being able to shoot really puts a huge ceiling on how good he can get.
I remember when sengun and amen were considered “untouchable” for giannis
They still are, but if amen doesn’t develop a decent jumper in two more years, he’s gone
That’s such a funny perspective to hear. Ausar is even worse at shooting yet no Detroit fan would ever consider trading him.
Star player vs Role player expectations
One of the two has to die for the other one to get an upgrade on their heavenly restriction
Both of them aren’t better than 7th man material
Yeah if he goes somewhere like Lakers, he will be great. Rockets roster management is terrible, they simply playing without pg since starting of season and Sengun has to work hard all points, getting near to zero help on PRs. Has to playmake, create chances for teammates and on defence he must defence. A player can not do all, he is getting exhausted. Looking worse than he’s. He only needs an organization trust him and give the confidence. That’s all. I tell you, he will average triple double with 25+ pt in a normal team with a decent pg.
He had a pg last year and shot worse from the field
#92 in EPM, if they can get good assets for him they should. Dude is very overrated.
Don’t compare him to Jokic please
There are a lot of better players he is being compared to and ranked above. ThinkingBasketball had him over Ant for current season’s play two months ago, Ringer had him over Jaylen Brown/Kawhi/Booker/Maxey two months ago.
ThinkingBasketball in the same ranking put Flagg below Jordan Walsh because of efficiency and Banchero below Carson Wallace/Suggs/Jabari Smith because of efficiency and on/off numbers, put Sengun above Ant even though he was less efficient than both and also has bad on/off numbers.
ThinkingBasketball has had some ridiculous takes recently lmao. He’s trying to sound smarter than he actually is.
Kelly Olynyk
TB will revise their view after this season.
Well he is not playing like big man
Playing like brick laying man
He’s painful to watch
Whole rockets are painful to watch. I have seen high school teams running better offense
Winning off sheer talent. I remember watching the eagles second game of the year and my buddy and myself said this same shit. Turns out we were right
tbh outside Spurs and OKC, the west is painful to watch.
No, i enjoy actually. He’s a good player after all.
Thinking Basketball has him over Ant btw
Has or had?!
They did their under 25 rankings at the end of last year and put Sengun before Ant
Even factoring in recency bias that’s insane. Ant just came off a WCF run, was on a better team, and had better counting stats.
If Ant and Sengun were traded for each other, Wolves fans would be suicidal and Rockets fans would be wondering how many rings this would get them
They’re just on two entirely different tiers of talent
I mean people discussed him being on par with Giannis or even better after the Euro.
Just look at the rockets subreddit, after the turkey vs greece match.
They make mistakes and revise their view with new data. After this season he won’t be. #92 in EPM.
I used to call them “Thinking [STUPIDLY ABOUT] Basketball”. I see nothing has changed
People wanted Sengun to add a jump shot, and these are the transitional results - 31.53% of his FGA this season are coming outside 10FT, and he’s shooting .352 on these shots.
10-15FT - .413 15FT-3PT - .333
10FT-3PT - .385
3PT shots inside 28FT - .296 3PT shots 28-47FT - .286
3PT - .295
Do you know his numbers last season as comparison? Trying to see if he’s legitimately attempting to add it to his bag this year or if hes already tried extending his jumpshot range in previous years
The fuck has been going on with all the Sengun posts today
Domantas Banchero
to be taller than Paolo and have even worse efficiency should be a criminal offense
I think he should shed some weight. He got too big for his own good. He used to be much quicker, and his middy game used to be a lot more silky.
Now all he does is backdown, slow spin, hook shot. He’s got way too predictable.
SeCoNd CoMiNg Of JoKiC
Shut up
Show me where it hurts…
What do you expect from him with a roster built like that ?
Rockets has 0 playmaking guards.They used a non shooter pg (Amen) and a non shooter center (Adams/Capela) with him mostly.Kd operating from mid range. There is no space for him to operate from high post or low post free.
And you can not ignore Alpi is a bad shooter too. He must finish more efficent and make free throws.He played heavy minutes on national team at summer and he got a injury mid season.
As a Turkish fan i would not make him an all-star this year but i really want Rockets retool the roster around him or trade him for Giannis to see how he can do with his own team.
A wise man once said this about Sengun: “Your franchise player can’t shoot or defend.”
KDF wasnt lying!
IMO, most overrated player in the league. The next Julius Randle, good enough to get paid, but bad enough that you’re never going to win with him as a franchise player.
Randle has never been the franchise player outside of like one year
Looks like a giraffe skating on ice. Terrible to watch
I hate his game so much. Not a good watch
He is terrible to watch
Dude what with the Sengun hate?
You a Sabonis or Giannas fan or something?
I just want him to get traded this summer. Will be funny to see Rockets fan crying after seeing him averaging triple double next season. Rockets as an organization did all the bad moves to show him unvaluable. Same applies to Amen Thompson. Sengun needs to find a better home. I will be happy if he goes to a big market team but even somewhere that will trust him and see him first option will be nice.
As a Spurs fan, fuck Sengun
He’s an okay player but he will never be great. You can just tell by watching that he doesn’t have the killer mentality to elevate his game like Jokic and SGA which is such a shame because his play style is extremely unique and hard to read when he’s on.
winning!
He is Enes Kanter with an elite PR team
The #1 in FG% in the NBA is Rudy Gobert.
Good night.
thank god I get to watch Shai being the most efficient 30+ ppg scorer in league history
Damn, three separate front page posts clowning on this dude tonight, who did he piss off to become the internet’s target.
Ayo chill OP why you throwing strays a high potential/still improving 22yo?
I like watching sengun. I think he has kind of a fun game.
How did this guy even become an All Star again
Corey Brewer once had a 50 piece.
Uh-oh watch out mentioning Sharpe’s inefficiency, you’ll get bombarded with obnoxious Blazer fans claiming he’s the next Michael Jordan he’s just young & needs time (even though he’s in year 4 in the league).
Valid point, Kevin
Not a franchise defining player like rockets make him out to be.
I mean it’s no coincidence that with his increased role and responsibility he’s become less efficient
His shot diet is awful and he isn’t a good shooter
His true shooting is up from last years 54.5% and not far off from his career 56.7%
Go look at Rockets and shots per game, his best efficient season came in when he was 4th in shots, last year he was 2nd, this year he’s 2nd
The bigger his role, the more inefficient he is, he can’t shoot, he can’t create
A lot of why Sengun sucks this year is because KD operates in the mid range at the key line extended to the 3 point line and wings where Sengun likes to operate or run the offense.
#blameKD
True shooting percentage is a useless stat. Coming from the mouths of players who actually play basketball. But go off.
how is it useless?
All it does is explain scoring efficiency. It doesn’t say anything about shot quality or coverage, so like all metrics, it requires nuance