Jeff Teague “If Kon Knueppel isn’t ROTY, he got robbed.”
Everything’s gotta be so fuckin extreme man, “without question” “robbery” maybe him and Flagg are just blatantly incredible rookies
foofighter1351 SLAMS Jeff Teague
Jeff Teague DESTROYED by nuance and PERSPECTIVE
Careful of the backlash!
Actually laughed out loud
Only missing my personal favorite “and it’s not close”
Don’t forget “those that know ball will agree”
“Only people that don’t know ball with disagree with me”
Top two and he ain’t two
“Player X was ROBBED of MVP” and its like a guy averaging 27/9/10 vs 34/7/6
“BLATANT”
Is Knueppel the greatest rookie in the history of the game?!?!
Where is he on the Mt Rushmore of rookies?
He’s actually all 4 spots
Him saying that gets him posted on Reddit and other places and potential viewers. He is selling a product
Shit product when you keep falling back on that
No it’s not. That’s the entire point of podcasts. Say things to get you to engage. You are sitting here on a post about it. Teagues pod gets referenced in this sub all the time.
Besides, it’s not like what he says is outrageous
There goes my hero…
I’m just here to say yes First Take ruined sports talk. And “s ports fan” clapped the whole time while it was happening.
Exaggeration garners clicks.
How else are you supposed to sell podcast ads when your claim to fame is you were a mediocre ex-player on mediocre teams?
It would be a robbery.
I mean it is extreme in this case
There is no case for Cooper Flagg even if he’s been good, the difference in efficiency is just too extreme
I completely disagree. There’s more to basketball than box scores. Coop has so much more on his plate and still produces. Kon just isn’t asked to do nearly as much for his team as Coop is.
Edit: lmao this fool slosha blocked me
For ROTY, efficiency has never been a key metric unless the counting stats are equivalent.
19/5/3 vs 20/6/4 is pretty close though. Averaging1 less point on 3 less shots is a noticeable difference.
If Flagg plays the same amount of games he probably wins a tight race.
Rookies don’t get dinged for bad efficiency because it’s expected, but I think that means we should celebrate and emphasize the rookie with some of the best shooting efficiency in the league.
You can’t just wave it away and say it doesn’t matter.
It’s a lot easier to have higher efficiency when you are not the one that is getting the most focus from the opposing defenders.
Coop is the 1st option on the Mavs, Kon is the 4th option on the Hornets
4th option. cmon scoring 20 pts per game as 4th option? thats not how it works in charlotte.
We have teams that have started face guarding Kon, he certainly gets a noticeable amount of defensive attention.
Doesn’t matter now does it, when it’s two players you’re comparing you’re not going to go into what the situation is
So how do you know Kon wouldn’t be as good in Dallas? How do you know Flagg would be as good in Charlotte when he can’t shoot? Those are moronic hypotheticals
We’re judging players on their current production, efficiency matters when stats are this close, if Flagg had way better stats sure
Coop is a way better defender and more complete player so there is absolutely a case for him
It’s kind of crazy how Flagg’s shot wasn’t falling at the start, but he was doing well on defense. Hopefully he grows into a two way star.
Coop is an awful defender, where is this shit that he’s a good defender coming from lmao, a couple of blocks? Dallas are a way better defensive team when he sits and he has awful defensive metrics, doesn’t look good in eye test either, not quick enough for smaller guards and not big enough to guard bigger players
He’ll be better, he isn’t good rn
You lost any remaining credibility you had with this take
Pack it up nephew
you are getting downvoted but you are right. a few blocks and a good reputation is enough to make flagg the best defender in the class despite everything saying otherwise.
How bad is that Flagg injury?
Healed overnight, Kon narrative getting too loud
I can’t wait to see them both grow! Crazy potential.
A heated rivalry some may say
“Coach Sheyer always loved you more!” 😫
Like Larry Bird vs. Larry Bird
NBA fan fic gonna be wild
Please god, if you’re there, this is the timeline for it
Thank God, no one says pause anymore. Except for Teague, ironically
Pause
He was never going to miss extended time. This narrative is crazy, originally he was supposed to come back right after the all star break, so if anything “Kon narrative isn’t loud enough for him to come back”. I don’t claim that, but cmon man
I mean both our squads were going into our game against each other out of a B2B, yall sat Coop for rest the game before so he could be more prepared for the head to head rookie showdown.
I love Coop but don’t act like optics haven’t played into when he sits or rests. Availability matters, and Coop’s has been designed around competing for the award. The Mavs need the good publicity.
I was legitimately disappointed he ducked that B2B. Like did he really need to go on hiatus and super saiyan charge to be ready to play his old roommate?
Ok, but what does this have to do with “Flagg magically getting healed overnight because Kon narrative is getting too loud”?
You can have some fair critiques of Coop, but the guy I’m responding to is implying that Flagg isn’t injured at all (or that we will rush him from injury).
That Coop’s availability is more based on convenience than health. Sit when there’s a sliver of risk. Play the big games. Try to win rookie of the year. Be the tank commander from the bench if there is any risk and no obvious benefit
The guy was really just making a tongue in cheek joke tbf (its me, I’m the guy)
I was literally going to say the same in your defense, but you also can’t quite tell sometimes
Fair enough.
He was nursing an ankle injury during that week as well. He was always going to rest one of those b2b games as to not reaggravate his injury. I’m sure the coaching staff asked him which game he preferred to play and he obviously chose hornets to play his buddy Kon. You guys are bending over backwards making up this “resting for the showdown” narrative.
Less to do with Flagg’s injury and just how much more efficient Knueppel has been imo. Kon is at 65% true shooting… Flagg is 56%. Both are amazing rookie seasons but if you’re basing purely on the court performance without the bias of a #1 overall pick then it’s Kon’s award if he finishes out the year like this.
Yeah I said yesterday but Kon is 3rd among non bigs in TS% this year. It’s SGA and reeves ahead of him. Hes going to obliterate the rookie 3PM record. Hes only 5 off.
Hes on pace to have more 3s made in a season than all but 1 of Klay Thompson’s seasons. I don’t think people realize how insane this is for a rookie
Kon is a 3 point specialist and 3rd option on his team. Flagg is doing everything as the number 1. Not to mention he leads over Kon in every single box score stat. I understand the Kon hype, but man, people are super downplaying how impressive Flagg has been in these debates. He is clearly the best basketball player that is a rookie. If you dont think that and the stats warrant ROTY, sure I guess that can be valid. But anyone acting like Kon would be robbed if he loses is either lying or delusional. Its a close race.
Kom is not running the entire offense
Also: the Mavs were not winning during Flagg’s most impressive run. His best games were the 7 before the injury, and the Mavs lost all 7. But the hornets have had a very impressive turn around, and Kon seems to be a major reason. So I think that narrative is what is turning it in Kons favor right now.
Flagg is a one man band. Kon has a good team.
Have them switch teams and watch what happens when Kon isn’t set up for threes all game and the entire offense runs through him.
He probably averages more points but with 60 TS% instead of 65 TS%.
Kon is a special talent, no need to talk down about him just put your guy up
Just saying, if your game relies on a great PG finding you set for a three, it’s going to go differently than if you have no distributors at all, and catch and shoot isn’t even possible most of the time.
You’re going to have to put the ball on the floor and beat your man. Kon hasn’t shown that ability. Maybe because he hasn’t had to, I don’t know, but he’s a specialist who is playing his role tremendously with a lot of luxuries around him that are perfect compliments to his game.
.
This is the first time anyone has ever called the Hornets a good team.
It’s probably more that Flagg is kinda forced to be first option as a rookie while Hornets have more guys that opponent’s defense has to be aware off.
Kon is arguably the best player on the Hornets. He’s played well when Melo and/or Miller has been out too
True shooting percentage is the only stat? Kon is a third option. Flagg is his teams #1 and #2, lol
He’s also a much better defender.
When you factor in how many games Flagg has missed, it doesn’t feel crazy to say Edgecombe has had a better rookie season. Lower stats but he plays inside his role, and if he was on a team that wanted him to be the #1 option his stats would likely improve.
Lmfao yes that is actually crazy to say. You give an inch people take a mile, I get why mavs fans are so protective of Flagg.
The rookie who is being asked to lead the offense, has better efficiency while creating his own offense, has more assists, has more rebounds, and more blocks all while being the better defender is actually more deserving of the rookie of the year compared to edgecombe. It’s pretty unfair that your biggest argument for edgecombe is that “he would probably do even better as a first option.” When that’s literally just a complete guess.
As bad as the Markannen “Injury”.
Flagg legitimately landed weird in the Suns game. Lively has been out constantly for a year+ cause they mishandled a foot issue, they’re not gonna risk it with Flagg.
I feel like it’s bad to shut down Flagg. He’s shown significant improvement since he first started and they were losing a lot with him anyway.
All sitting him does is stunt his development and give Mavs fans 0 reason to watch. At least with him playing they can watch him grow and get hyped about their future
I don’t think we are shutting him down at all, he is just actually injured and we’re extra careful.
Obviously I’m just a fan, but I would expect him to be back in the next few games.
Yea exactly, I agree it’s that. There’s no way they’re shutting him down for an “injury” like that above comment said, that’d be ridiculous
Shutting down a first year player for tanking is new levels of crazy.
He first started as a point and is playing in position now though
He was in a walking boot until a few days ago
The Hornets are gonna be in the play-in while the Mavericks are tanking hard. That should count in my book.
Hornets fan.
Issue is that, for the success narrative, Cooper gets a lot of slack because he went to the Mavs who were in the process of falling apart following a lucky playin.
On the flip side, Kon is getting less credit for the Hornets turnaround because the Hornets are finally healthy.
It becomes almost a wash in that department, at least from what I feel publicly.
Kon has been really damn good, but the fact that the Hornets are finally healthy again and Miller is rounding into full form has really been underrated.
All you have to do is look at Kon’s numbers with and without sharing the court with Lamelo. Not saying he isn’t an incredible player playing his role, but there is a huge difference between him and Flagg putting up the same numbers while being the focal point.
He goes from an insane 70% True Shooting Percentage with LaMelo on the floor to 60% without LaMelo on the floor. That is still really good and higher than Flagg
It is kind of funny how the only way LaMelo gets credit from other fanbases for how good he has been is to discredit Kon
When LaMelo was inefficient with bad teammates, everybody said it was because he was a losing player. And now Kon is efficient with good teammates and Mavs fans keep using this tired ass narrative as if he’s being carried up the court by LaMelo and Miller lmfao. People will warp reality to whatever suits their narrative without having a real basketball opinion.
Nobody is saying anything bad about Kon or LaMelo, but it’s important to point out that Flagg has been the focal point of the Mavs and Kon has not. Kon has a much better team around him, Flagg is coming into a really messed up situation without a true point guard.
Regardless, they’ve both been amazing. I think Flagg should be ROTY. It’s fine if you disagree. I really really like Kon too, and I think he’s been a big part of the Hornets turnaround (check my comment history if you want). Not just his on court performance, but it felt like the team culture changed with Kon.
It’s going to be a really tight race. Whichever player loses, their team will feel a bit robbed. And rightly so, because just about any other year, either one of them would have won easily.
I think Kons a lot of the reason the hornets are so good on offense though. He opens up the floor for everyone else.
What is get from the public is Kon is the next coming of Jesus and the only way Coop is gonna win is because of him being picked 1 and hype
Sounds salty and I get that.
A lot of people saying “cooper is getting the award because he’s the top pick” are indirectly discrediting how great Cooper has been.
But to some extent, there’s truth that he will be the default winner unless Kon goes above and beyond Cooper.
It’s likely largely because Cooper was that “second coming” dude well before the draft and coming into the league, while Kon wasn’t on many radars and is averaging 19 PPG while flirting with the 50/40/90 club en route to likely decimating the rookie made threes record.
Discourse is largely driven by performance relative to expectations. We’d consider Kon one of the best second or third options in the league with that production if he was a seasoned vet. His game as a rookie is well beyond what many imagined his ceiling at his peak could be.
That’s historically been a key factor in ROTY 😂😂😂. See Melo getting robbed bc of Bron hype
Almost like Brandon Miller and LaMelo having relatively healthy seasons helped the hornets improve.
It’s surprising to people because the narrative remained “lol the hornets are a terribly-run franchise” even though they’re about half a decade into having much better management. They just unfortunately are also half a decade into possibly league worst injury luck.
I don’t think anyone paying attention the past few years is surprised that with health came dramatic improvement.
They just unfortunately are also half a decade into possibly league worst injury luck.
*2nd worst injury luck. My brother is a Pels fan (and I am secondarily), so I have to make note lol
You’re absolutely right in your point though.
Nah it needs to be a player specific award, a teams record can vary wildly where someone gets drafted to, its unfair to take it into account
Also this argument you’re proposing was why people thought Chet should get ROTY consideration during Wemby’s first season which was silly back then too
This is melo vs lebron rookie year again.
Melo should have won but lebron got that name brand
more like lamelo vs ant where hornets had the better record & actually reached the play-in
[deleted]
He was 20,5,5 in his rookie season. Wasn’t at 25 points
20,5,5?
that’s crazy to think about cuz 10 seed in East vs 12 seed in West usually cheeks of the same ass (on paper, i know both are gonna end up with different records)
How is that relevant to who’s the best rookie?
Should it?
It should count but it definitely does not make it a slam dunk like this guy said, both incredible talents just different circumstances
Edit: typo
They (Flagg, Knueppel) gunna be co-winners of ROTY like that year with Grant Hill and Jason Kidd. I guarantee it.
If I found out the writers conspired to make that happen I would applaud them.
I wouldn’t complain. I personally have Flagg because defense as the tie breaker but they both 100% deserve it
Kon is a decent to good defender. Not a traffic cone by any means
They aren’t on the same level at all, traffic cone or no.
Doubt that with the way betting is
Jeff always has a hot take trying to get views. It’s cool if you think Kon is the roty but to say he’d get robbed while Cooper is doing what he’s doing is just talking to talk.
I ignore most people who talk like this now. Saw it a lot with people on reddit about Maye v Stafford about how it’s not even close and Maye is the clear cut winner. Not only was it extremely close, he was not a clear cut winner. And somehow people will still take that as a dig as though being second in MVP is slanderous. ESPN ass brains, man..
Top 1% commenter btw
wtf is that supposed to mean lol
It means I’m a loser and should have no opinion unlike him. I went into his profile. He uses that ad hominem a lot.
tbf we ARE ALL losers in here lol so he’s at least got a point with that haha
It’s a gathering of losers here
a gaggle of losers lol
Do they have food at the loser gathering? I’m there if so
hey man me too
Quantity over quality
that they talk just to talk too lmao
As in he’s upvoted, not in how many times he comments. I wonder how I’d know that
Having that shit and a Hornets flair is a straight up curse in here. Some nerds can’t even read past my nameplate lmfao. Like moths to a flame
Who hates the hornets? I thought nobody. Shit we do so many trades with you and the Knicks we obligatory like you guys. And then the man that is THE announcer
Nah people immediately go straight to talkin shit about the hornets history whenever they don’t like somethin I say lol. That shit can’t hurt me, I lived through it mfs
Bro internet sports fans are honestly mostly really sad people. Hornets have had some of the funnest teams from Zo and LJ to CP3 to now
God I hate these takes and this sub is full of them as well. Neither player will be “robbed”, they’re both having great seasons and it could go to either one
definitely should still be seen as going either way fairly. at this point both are incredible players already with incredibly bright futures. should go to who has been more consistent at this point I guess.
it is also hard to say because both players have had different versions of their highest “highs” this season. and obviously with how sports media is it can be so swayed by people saying “HE COULD BE X PLAYER OHMYFUKINGOD”
it is a fun shit show tho, I don’t feel like there’s been a lot of rude rhetoric either way
its a close roty race. i wouldnt be mad if flagg won, he clearly has the higher ceiling. but what kons been able to do this year, getting dropped into a transforming team and being this efficient is crazy.
the hornets have the best offense in the league in the last 22 games btw.
Does he have a higher ceiling?
“getting dropped into a transforming team”
Mavs have one guy who would start for pretty much any team in the league.
They are transforming from suck to still sucks with one of the most dysfunctional front offices in the NBA. They don’t even have a GM and are being run by a casino nepo baby.
Flagg can do way more. Kon is a catch and shoot and one dribble sniper specialist
and hes doing it at a unprecedented clip for a rookie. Its a roty award not a bag award
He’s one dimensional. His highlight reels are 95% catch and shoot.
Yeah, he’s an impressive specialist player.
Like Melo got robbed for ROTY by LeBron
I’m voting for Cooper Kupps Nipple
This is a horrible comparison.
If Knueppel continues to lead the league in 3PM with incredibly high %, as a rookie in a league dominated by 3s, that would be an incredibly strong case.
Flagg is also having an incredible season on both ends. It will be an exciting race, outrage/extemist bait titles are cheap attention grabs
Flag propably is the better player long term. But right now he’s putting up big numbers on poor efficiency
Poor efficiency!!!! When did basketball fans become such losers. No wonder the NFL keeps kicking the NBA teeth in.
Both are shooting 48% from the field. Wtf are you on?
I’m sure you’re aware but 3 is a larger number than 2
I wouldn’t say Flaggs efficiency is poor though they are being extreme
I didnt know the only relevant stat was 3pt%
“So you hate waffles?”
Do you know how to look at stats?
You clearly dont
I think it’s you that doesn’t know how to look at stats lol.
I’m all ears
Yes, but one is doing it mostly at the rim, while the other is on track to have the most 3’s as a rookie in NBA history and leads the league in 3’s made. A player that shoots mostly 3’s should always have a lower FG% than someone who operates in the paint, the fact that they are around the same indicates Kon’s skill. To show the more accurate stat, Flagg is averaging 56% TS and Kon is averaging 65% TS
Lets see what Flaggs TS shoots up to with shooters and kyrie in the team. Just like with Lamelo off the floor Kons TS takes a nose dive at -10 it can help Flagg with spacing and Kyrie. Being able to create his own shot is way more valuable than catch and shoor guy. Kon has his shots assisted at 70% compared to 30% of Flagg.
Kon is capable of creating his own shot. The reason 70% of his shots are assisted is that the team already has a star point guard, they’re not about to upend their entire system so that Kon can prove a point to some dude on the internet who doesn’t understand the statistics he’s looking at lol
I mean that doesn’t mean his TS% should dip by 10% when Melo is off the floor. If flag had people creating for him it maybe different.
Flag is asked to be the primary ball handler, playmaker, and scorer on his team. If he has someone creating for him his efficiency would probably look different as well.
You’re making the case for Flagg right there.
Flagg doesn’t even have a PG on the team.
FG% in 2026 lmao
As a Hawks fan, I agree. That dude is different every time they play us lol
It would be a white on white crime.
And he would be right
sybau Jeff Teague
I would go Kon over Flagg, but it’s for sure a close race
Fully agreed
Flagg & Knueppel are both excellent players. Flagg is better defender, Knueppel is crazy efficient player.
Flagg stats get dinged from playing on a terrible dallas team that doesn’t run any offense play due not have a PG for most of the season
I dun think its robbed.
But i think Kon probably edge it out for now since he is having team Success and great team record.
Doesnt help that flagg was not great for the first 1⁄3 of the season.
I think flagg still the better player BUT Kon is performing better and his team have better record too so i think he is deserving of RoTY this season
Ben Simmons might have something to say about this
Facts. It’s a Carmelo LeBron situation. I don’t even like Carmelo and think he got robbed. Wouldn’t put it passed them to do it again
Maxine Raynaud
This looks like LeBron & Melo again huh?
Record breaking season (KON) > Record breaking games (Flagg)
Co-RotY them Elton Brand and Steve Francis style
heh
Ice cold take
Defence don’t count?
FACTS
Then rob him? The hell, Flagg got a legacy to build and ROTY will put him on the right trajectory for his HOF career
not a reason to give it to him
Gave it to Bron for that reason
Facttttttttttsssssssss
If Kon drops remotely close to 40 points this season the conversation of who deserves it needs to be officially behind us.
I’m taking Kon right now over Flagg.
They’ll be CO-ROY
Flaggs only argument is the very poor one of 1 point and a couple rebounds in counting box score stats.
To argue that they are equal or that Flagg is having a better season you have to say that those little bit of box score numbers (in higher minutes no less) are somehow equal to or worth more than:
Nearly 10% in TS, historic vs below average
10 more games missed in injury (so far)
Playing in actual meaningful games
Stealing the ball from and scoring the game winning points on him in their head to head
I can’t take anyone seriously that even says it’s close
Only argument? Why do you not consider defense?
Because there are no metrics that actually have Flagg as some major impact defender. He’s mediocre, and Kon is slightly less mediocre. It’s barely relevant to the conversation. Trust me, if Flagg was out here looking like prime Kawhi on defense like some people are pretending then I’d concede it. But it’s just a simple fact that his defense to this point is not particularly special at this point. Kons efficiency is though. He’s literally scoring like a legitimate star, right now.
Edit: slightly more mediocre*
His defense is worse than Flagg’s while guarding significantly worse players. Youre right, the difference isn’t meteoric, but anyone claiming that there is a huge gap between the two players for roty is a massive homer.
It’s okay tho, I like seeing the hornets up. Coop will have plenty of opportunities for accolades.
If you’re implying that Kon is hidden on easier matchups on the perimeter i can assure you that’s not the case at all. If anything, he gets tasked with the hardest ones so LaMelo can be protected from fouling himself out in the first quarter
Also, Melo is just a bad defender lol. We don’t want him guarding the other teams best player.
The fact that you consider Kon a better defender than Flagg is you showing your ass. It’s not even close.
Meaningful games like playins in the east having 5 more wins. Gimme a break. We can also argue who has had more 40 point games and 30 point games. Lemme see Flaggs TS with Kyrie on the floor just like Kons TS takes a -10% TS dip with lamelo off. Kon with 70% of his shots assisted vs Flagg creating most of his own offense at only 30% assisted shots. Believe it or not the only reason Kon would be ahead right now is because of Flaggs injury
Kons 10% dip without LaMelo is still more efficient than Flagg
Last I checked ROTY isn’t a pity award for the guy with the worst teammates, or else the Hornets would have a lot more of them
He reminds me of Kyle Korver. He’s deadly when he can catch and shoot.
Flagg is on a junk team where he is the first and second option, the primary ball handler and asks to play defense against scoring opponents on a team that is worse than their record.
Kon has a great PG setting him up all game so he can stand and shoot threes and is on a playoff team.
They aren’t asked to do the same thing.
It’s VJ Edgecombe.
Bro stopped watching after the 3rd game
I’m taking Kon over Harper+Castle COMBINED
Maybe over Harper+Castle+Fox combined, if accounting for contracts.
Then you’re silly, unless you think Castle/Harper never learn how to hit a 3.
Flagg is literally better in every fucking stat! If Flagg doesn’t wins it it would the the biggest scandal in Rookie history.
Flagg is literally better in every fucking stat!
You know except in literally every efficiency metric and 3s… important shit in the modern NBA