Chris Paul on why he would pick Shai over Luka oncic: “Your teammates just want to see that the stars actually try. Actually try on defense… I got a lot of respect for Steph, Shai, and all these guys who at least try on the defensive end”
Lmao he was asked the question, I don’t know why people care so much about this with Luka.
If you play pickup basketball with a guy that shoots alot and doesn’t play a lick of defense people hate playing with that. It’s no different in the NBA
Genuinely my least favorite thing playing pick up is when we got a guy who genuinely a great shooter but doesn’t give a shit on defence. It’s like you are clearly better than the rest of us, please just try on both sides. I’d rather they don’t play at all, genuinely pisses me off. Other the net less hoops that’s easily my least favorite part about pickip
There’s two things Ive learned from this. 1.) you can see the point when other players go why bust my ass on defense if he’s letting people go right by. 2.) whenever that player tries to tell you to do something it goes unnoticed because people don’t care since you didn’t show effort.
Guys like that will also “gamble” themselves out of a defensive play. Like shoot a top of the key three, then lunge at the outlet pass off the rebound. Then they can not run back on defense and play it off like “ah damn almost picked off that pass but now I’m out of the play” lol
Every screen they run into is an invitation to take the rest of that defensive play off
Then they lose and will think “I scored 4 of our 8 points, I did my job”. The psychology of pickup basketball is honestly so entertaining lmao
Sounds exactly like rocket League lol
Lmao a whole separate conversation worth of dialogue on the two points you just made !!
At the club, I used to love guarding guys like that. “Why are you trying so hard on defense?”
Well there’s good defense and then theirs overly aggressive defense like we still got to go to work tomorrow playa.
“Still got to work tomorrow playa” had me burst out laughing, well played.
“Im barely trying youre just bad” is an easy answer
Not only on defense, some of these guys do not give a hoot off-ball on offense. They will purposefully hamstring your ability to make plays on offense by:
Genuinely. GENUINELY. genuinely.
It’s actually the worst because you can’t even say anything, the guy is cooking the other team on offense even though he’s playing 0 defense
You can say, “D up, you’re getting cooked” then don’t pass him the ball unless absolutely necessary
I dunno, the other part of Luka’s game is easily my least favorite part of pickup.
The guy that’s clearly the best player on the court, yet screams foul anytime his shot doesn’t fall. Insufferable.
Yeah, nothing makes you care less about a game than a teammate who jacks up garbage shots and then doesn’t get back on defense. Like, I’ll want to lose just so I don’t have to play with this clown again.
All that AND it’s the guy who can’t stop bitching about everything being a foul. Worst type of person to play with.
Even as someone who is a generally pro Doncic, Im not sure really what there is to argue about this regarding LD’s defense. It happens every yr in meaningful stakes.
2022 vs the Warriors, 2024 vs the Celtics, last year vs Minn, just as bad defensively as youll see from a true franchise level player. So blatant even as a perimeter defender there so many poss he is just compromising the entire defense. Like he just looked pathetic in all those series. Truly helpless. On him to show he can be different when he’s fatigued at the highest rds of the playoffs.
No best player on a championship team repeatedly has that type of defensive output in the biggest stages. The gap between that and like say a Steph level defender(average, engaged, competent, gets targeted, will get scored upon but will also hold his own enough) is p meaningful from LD those 3 series
I also think it affects roster building. Maybe Steph’s case is just lucky cuz there were great defenders on that team, but it never felt like they needed to specifically plug that weakness or that there were lineups that they couldn’t play
There are some types of guys the lakers probably just can’t sign to play alongside Luka because you can’t have another iffy defender out there. If Luka’s effort was decent you might be able to get away with a glass-cannon offensive lineup but the way he plays it would just be way too easy to cook that type of backcourt
steph was a bad defender but decent team defender because he always showed effort. klay and dray help but steph was also never as lazy as Luka on D
And the thing is Steph being a bad iso defender mattered less because the Warriors defense was never 1v1 heavy. I mean Harden cooked him plenty in 2018 and 2019, but Steph also got a decent amount of iso stops just because he knew where the help would be to dissuade Harden from taking certain angles, which comes from both game plan knowledge and also game long effort
Stop pretending like the vast majority of people in this sub have ever played a game of 5 on 5.
Cause the timing of posting this has nothing to do with praising Steph or SGA.
There is 80 post on this sub about Luka not playing defense, everyone knows he doesn’t play defense and everyone knows it is detrimental to winning a chip.
At this point even reacting to it is a waste of time.
don’t worry next game he will drop 35/9/9 against the Pels and everyone will act like he’s the best player in the world again
I’m not great at basketball, but I play hard on defense, make good passes, set screens, and box out for rebounds. One of the dudes I’ve played on a bunch of adult league teams with is a former D2 guy. He told me that he hates playing basketball with people who suck, but likes playing with me because I’m a good teammate and understand how to play the game vs just jacking shots all the time and constantly turning the ball over.
“Luka oncic” lol. I guess he really has no D
Lmaooo I wonder if that was deliberate
reminds me of the classic James Har_en*
Back in the melo / AI days we had the enver Nuggets
My Dad used to call Dirk “Irk” for years
Cavs brought in amon ones during Lebron’s first Cleveland stint.
Tbf he hit on the “J” side of things he did hit a big playoff 3 vs the Wizards. But the “D”, nah.
Same with ason Kidd, except his dd stood for domestic disturbance
Yea he played for the Allas Mavericks.
Ason Kidd.
Because he had no J
Eventually, he got an SS. No, not that, a *s*et *s*hot.
Real ones remember Irk Nowitzki
Or Irk Nowinski before he won it all.
Time to coin a new nickname loooollll
It was absolutely eliberate
Absolutely.
Ason Kidd vibes, I love it.
His favourite player is Ee-Rose
irk nowitzki was said a lot before his ring man
For me it’s the combo of whining and not getting back on defense. For example, as a Celtics fan, Tatum constantly complains to the refs, but he’s always consistent on defense.
Yeah. The complaining to the point of not getting back shows serious self-centeredness and make it clear what he does and doesn’t value.
Entitled brat was a con that espn had before the draft
You guys exposed the shit out of him.
Bro was on the floor when he made a three complaining for a foul which turned into an easy two in the other end. That must’ve been frustrating for Laker fans.
Luka’s highs are incredible but his lows, like the whining and poor defense are incredibly frustrating. Definitely still happy to have him but seeing him as often as I do definitely makes him more irritating.
I’m not even trying to shit on him but I’ve never seen any targeted so badly ever. We weren’t even subtle about it.
Idk man I haven’t seen Tatum get back on defense a single time this year
He hasn’t allowed a single point against him either. DPOTY.
That’s tuff 🔥
Dude I remember growing up Tim Duncan always whined. Got back every damn time though. There’s so many breaks in the game to complain. Get them on a free throw stoppage.
I mean, Pop would break his knees if he didn’t. Him or anyone else really, even the Admiral would get the bat if he dared.
Timmy wasn’t actually that big a whiner about not getting calls. He had his trademark arm raised stare if he got called for fouls though.
Tatum actually doesn’t complain anymore. A few years ago it was a big issue, but it wasn’t an issue last year or really the year prior.
Tatum will get a tech for clapping his hands though. That thug.
next time he should try laughing at the refs from the bench
Let’s not forget the time he bounced a ball barely hard enough to go right above his head after a no call in the bubble. Real piece of shit this guy.
Yeah Tatum toned it down, but even when he did it he didn’t let it interfere with transition D.
Exactly! It’s super annoying when Tatum does it but he’s one of the best two-way players of the last 20 years lol
You just have to try… that’s it
That’s not what Yoda told me
Who are you going to believe, Master /u/el-fenomeno09 or some little green alien dude?
Actually we granted u/el-fenomeno09 a seat on the council, but did not give him the rank of master.
I’ve been a “gym class hero” my whole life and it’s always baffled me when amateurs don’t even try, never mind professional athletes. I play in an adult hockey league and it fucking enrages me when people don’t come back on defense
And Luka (and other guys, he’s not the only one)…hooo boy. SGA has an annoying game at times be used of the free throws but at least he has a high compete level. Sometimes Luka looks like he doesn’t care, which is very frustrating
Like TJ McConnell said, “Playing hard is a skill. If it wasn’t, everyone would do it”
I play soccer and basketball, I’m also pissed when people don’t come back on D. The main reason cuz those guys are the first ones mad we took an L.
All you have to do is stay with your guys through a couple screens and contest a jump shot. The funny thing is the defence is already schemed up so guys like SGA, Luka and Cade don’t have to guard the opposing high usage guy, so yea trying is all it takes.
Luka is the worst superstar in the league, I absolutely hate watching him. No defense, step back 3s most possessions and bitching to the refs literally ever play
Realistically he should get just as much shit as Harden did back in the day, but he gets spared
And we’ve got two great examples in the league right now. Steph and Jokic are not gifted defenders, but they get themselves from negatives to neutral just by trying.
Luka’s so smart, he should have the skills to anticipate and position well. Jokic gets steals because of basketball IQ, not lightning quick reflexes.
Luka is out of shape and doesn’t have the energy to try on defense and still get 20+ shots per game.
Jokic is often one of the laziest defenders in the league ans gets a pass for it
That’s why I love Brunson, he tries really hard on defense he’s just dookie at it
Curry used to get hunted on defence all the time but you could tell he was trying, and as a result there wasn’t much discourse about his defensive shortcomings. It’s just more annoying when the player is bad because they don’t care enough to try.
Steph wasn’t that bad at defense by the time he really became a top star. He was just the weak link on an otherwise great defensive team that won a lot and like you said he did try.
In the beginning though his defense was really bad and he got criticized heavily and a lot of people (myself included admittedly) thought that would keep him from becoming a superstar. And we were all dead wrong.
For real, when your teammates are Draymond, Klay, KD, and Iguadala of course they’re gonna pick to go up against the shorter guy. You could put CP3 on that team instead and they’d still hunt for that matchup
Chris Paul was an infuriating defender though, he was decently agile and always seemed to know what you were trying to do to get a hand on the ball when you least expected it.
There’s a reason he made so many all defense teams. Elite IQ, quick hands, deceptively strong. One of the best defenders on his position ever, especially for his size.
Definitely true that CP3 was a great defender for his size. Still though if his teammates on the floor were Draymond (a DPOY), Klay (made all defensive team and bigger), Iggy (made all defensive team and bigger) - I mean CP3 would still be the guy to get hunted
Yeah when you at least put forth an effort, your teammates have a better chance at switching or offering some help.
Curry used to get hunted on defence all the time
Curry used to get hunted on defense all the time BECAUSE WHO ELSE WOULD YOU FUCKING GO AT ON THAT SQUAD????
Speaking from having watched the Cavs face the warriors so many years in a row in the playoffs, 2015, 2016, people hunted Curry because he was bad at defense (and hurt some of the time too), plus you wanted to tire him out.
2017 and onward, you hunted him because he was the weakest link, tire him out, etc., though not really a terrible defender any more, as you said.
Effort was never really an issue for him though, it was mainly strength and technique issues that he worked very hard on.
i don’t have numbers or anything, but i feel like curry always held up surprisingly well when he was hunted during his prime years. a lot better than you’d expect from his build. he was pesky and knew how to funnel a mismatch into help, and obviously his help was elite. i do remember one finals series specifically where lebron kept trying to get steph on switches but was shooting like sub-40% on those possessions, and stopped going to that after a few games. not to say steph was clamping him up one on one, but more that he and his team knew how to avoid letting stars do whatever they wanted when they tried to iso on him.
“There wasn’t much discourse about his defensive shortcomings”
LMFAOOOO in what world?? To this day, it’s the first and last thing everyone of those idiotic “who yall taking?” /r/nbatalk posts have to say about curry
So revisionist haha. Nobody gave af about his effort, everyone still roasted him for being targeted on defense
That’s all you can ask. Even Ja at his worst at least puts in effort and is a danger in passing lanes.
Ja’s lowkey my favorite guy to watch in the league despite his problems. I could watch a Ja highlight reel any time. Love seeing him get swats.
He get the charge calls though at least
Not every player is gifted enough to be a lock down defender. But effort needs to be used. I’ve been dunked on well over 100 times at the park but my hand is always up hoping to get lucky. :)
Man I just love CP.
Congrats, you are now an American congressman
HOLY SHIT 💀💀💀
relax
He should change his profile name to LittleKidLover so everyone knows his priorities.
Phrasing
uhhhhh
Trump Reddit burner found
Chris paul is not bad either
Pause
I too am a huge fan of Maryland. Go Terps!
Good I don’t call it that anymore lmao, full government name when I’m talking about “college park” from now on
Say Cp3 brother it looks like child porn
Cp3 sounds like three copies of cp
Also sounds like the third installment of CP
officer hes over here
Holdup
HANKKKK
Why don’t you have a seat?
Luka is getting destroyed rn by the media. Comes with the territory of playing on the lakers
He was getting destroyed for his defense on the Mavs. It picked up in their playoffs run 2 years ago when they made the final.
The media was all over him for his lack of defense and complaining to refs. I remember stats about him getting blown by on defense was all over ESPN and the media in general.
The criticism cooled off a bit last year but it picked back up with the Lakers, this year especially since they don’t look like legit contenders and he’s the current face of that franchise.
It cooled off last year because Nico made him look like a victim by doing a horrendous trade
I couldn’t have imagined being a Mavs fan watching that series. That would’ve been mega rage fuel for me.
They were destroying him after 2024, never saw blow by % used that much until that post season.
And all those glazing and over protection when he foul baits worse than Shai who is made the poster boy of foul baiting, eventho he does it quietly and runs back on defense while Luka would whine and cry and plays no defense as he draws a foul.
You know this sub glazes Luka too much when every hate thread starts with “wow the media is criticizing Luka so much” and not a bunch of jokes like every other player’s hate threads
We are so far from the mens health story hype
When Luka tries it’s also overlooked because he complains so much.
It’s his whining that turns off people. Has been said since he joined the league and he still hasn’t changed. So at this point it’s who he is.
It’s actually incredible how much he complains, too. It really isn’t even comparable to anyone else in the league.
Legitimately every fucking play.
He thinks he’s so good that the only reason he misses is because he was fouled.
When Luka tries
“When” is doing too much in this sentence.
He actually plays defense way more than people think, it’s just that everytime he doesn’t it gets posted as a lowlight. If people did the same to Jokic, he’d look like the laziest defender in the league to, because he does the same shit
Until Luka wins one (like jokic), it will always be like this
I knew he wouldn’t change when he didn’t change after the Finals.
I don’t know what’s going to be a bigger motivator than getting embarrassed in the Finals by your defense and constant complaining. I guess even getting dumped by Dallas wasn’t enough.
Why would you not pick shai ? He’s better in every single metric possible. There isn’t a debate
Because Luka is a better passer so a lot of people see him as better for elevating teammates. However mentality and efficiency also matter a ton
It is a little weird how LeBron and Luka are famous for their passing but also famous for not having good teammates to pass to.
Not every metric - Luka is better at passing and shooting 3’s. Shai is a way better player.
Shai is shooting 39% from three (4.6 attempts a game) and Luka is shooting 35.2% from three (10.3 attempts a game)
Shai is significantly more efficient from three this season even if it’s on half the attempts. I still think Luka is a better shooter but it’s definitely not a massive gap anymore
SGA is the better shooter. Shooter includes 3 point, mid and long 2s and free throws. SGA is in another stratosphere on free throws, mid range 2 and long 2. They’re in a similar ball park on 3, with Luka having better volume and SGA better efficiency. The overall result is SGA is a WAY better shooter.
Shai is deadly in the mid range, I wouldn’t say Luka is necessarily a better shooter he just hits tougher/crazier shots that Shai doesn’t even try to take
Exactly. Shooter includes 3 point, mid and long 2s and free throws. SGA is in another stratosphere on free throws, mid range 2 and long 2. They’re in a similar ball park on 3, with Luka having better volume and SGA better efficiency. The overall result is SGA is a WAY better shooter.
Especially when you consider the types of 3s each of them are shooting. Luka takes so many early shot clock contested step back 3s that very often lead to a fast break for the other team because he hits those at such a low percent.
It’s crazy to me that he is shooting the same volume 3’s as curry while not being have the shooter. As a teammate id go crazy with a guy shooting these horrible shots especially when they don’t go in but he keeps taking them. He should look at what kawhi and sga do when they have a rough shooting night, they go for easy buckets to get going. And not only 3’s . I seen luka do 3 back to the basket fade aways midrangers in a row against boston, now the whole team needs to get back on d because of these stupid plays.
Doncic’s passing has somehow become lost in all the incessant conversation about him (case in point - OP’s statement…)
SGA is a better player overall. But Doncic is an insane playmaker made all the more impressive by how poor his teammates are rn. He makes the game harder on defense but also massively easier for his team on offense. Yes, you need to cover all the space he leaves open while ref moaning. He’ll also get you wide open 3s from impossible angles.
His complaining to refs, defensive effort, conditioning, etc are all fair game for criticism, but people are starting to talk about him like he’s just Duncan Robinson or something.
Luka turns the ball over twice as often as SGA
This sentiment is gonna be a much larger consensus in the next 18 months. Shai can genuinely go down as too 5 guard of all time
Picked 2 players he’s played with, I am shocked. Someone should just compile all anti Luka clips and pin them on here and get it over with.
Picked 2 players he’s played with, I am shocked.
He literally just got kicked off his team for being too critical of his teammates. Everything CP3 said here is the truth, you’re upset because he’s not sugarcoating it in boring PR language.
Tbf I kinda get him, the constant Luka slander is annoying. He’s gonna get a good game eventually and it’s gonna be a bunch of Luka praise. Then we’ll flip back to Luka slander here once a bad game happens. This sub is very reactionary and it can get exhausting lol.
This sub is very reactionary and it can get exhausting lol
This is true, but Luka has also had issues with defense and effort for multiple years at this point. It’s just that more people are aware of it now since he plays for the Lakers and the honeymoon phase is over.
How is it slander to say SGA is better. Nobody’s saying Luka is not a superstar
Yh Luka is a massive victim, checks out with his complaining
SGA is also just a way better, more efficient scorer? I feel like that gets lost in this whole debate.
Efficient yes, way better? Debatable at least. Also Luka is a much better playmaker and rebounder.
You can’t call luka a “much better” playmaker for averaging 2 more assists and double the turnovers
Luka’s turnovers definitely lower his quality as a playmaker, but in terms of high quality passes they can make and do make Luka is much better. A good Luka passing game is on a par with Jokić.
If you compare Luka’s Turnovers to the other elite passers, he and Trae almost always have the most TOV. So, compared to most of the other elite passers, I have a slightly lower opinion of him but I still think even with his reckless passes he’s at least a full tier above SGA as a passer.
In summary, Luka’s much better in terms of talent but sometimes only “better” in terms of results.
Oncic
Cause he got no D
Ohhhh
First eunuch in the league
Took me a minute to realize it was in the title and not the video. OP is a troll lmao
Steph is actually very impressive on defense. Not because he’s elite on defense, but because he has a bad build for defense and used to be awful but he put the work in and he’s no longer a complete liability on that end.
Nowadays, he kind of is, but he’s an old man, so we kinda give him a pass considering how much he does for us on offence. In 2015-2024 though he was actually a solid team defender for us that fit our scheme (which was built around covering him) well and harassed guys into traps or forced them into drives by playing up on them, knowing we had the defensive mastermind of draymond green behind him.
Teams hunted him. We knew it would happen, and we built an entire system around punishing it, but that system only worked if steph played his part. His effort was the reason the warriors could consistently have a top 5 defence. If he doesn’t try, the entire scheme falls apart.
Nah bro steph defense at the playoffs with the rockets was absolutely amazing. And still has some really great defensive stretch this season, well obviously not everytime but his just been consistently average defender imo
He’s never been awful, or even really close that. He was called “awful” for being cooked by lebron and kyrie as if damn near every other player in the league doesn’t get cooked by them too
When he came back from missing the bubble year he was noticeably stronger. He apparently decided it had to happen after losing the finals the first time a couple of years before but that whole year off seemed to really let him get there.
For those couple years up to the FMVP in ‘22 there’s actually an argument for being the best version of him because he was a good guard defender by that point.
What if ten years from now, young NBA fans will be thinking “well that Luka trade wasn’t that bad. He didn’t do shit in LA.”
I don’t think that will ever happen simply because they got basically nothing back. If you compare the trade to what teams got for Desmond Bane, JJJ, or Zubac (let alone Bridges or Durant), Luka’s reputation alone should’ve commanded at least the haul of that first group. Whether or not the Mavs should’ve traded Luka is an interesting conversation but they got fleeced even if it was the right decision to trade him.
It was terrible trade. We had no business trading Luka.
Those fans would be pretty fucking dumb
I’m getting so sick of the guys that only play offense. It just feels so entitled. Like they think they are so good that they can just slack on defense? Or is it because they are so out of shape. Looking at you Luka and Jokic.
You’re an idiot if you think Jokic doesn’t play defense. He’s just bad at it.
Crazy Luka led a team to the NBA finals just not trying.
Not trying on defense. Get the quote right at least.
Yeah that was the problem. Mavs did a complete build around him not playing defense and having a high on ball percentage. It’s hard to build that again and even if you do it’ll still always lose against a good team like the Celtics at the time.
im always here for good ol Luka slander, but damn it goes too much this days lol
I just wish this sub had settings beyond “slander” and “glazing” when it comes to star players.
I wish we could have reasonable discussion somewhere lol. I’m far from a basketball pro, but I find it interesting when people bring up cool plays, strats, or players balling out unexpectedly. For example Pritchard being an insane iso scorer, how Miami plays completely different, etc. instead it just feels like a slander/glaze fest and powerscaling of players
I mean he’s a large reason they lost to the magic last night. There is some truth to the slander 8⁄24 fg and 4⁄9 ft isn’t gonna do it
Why is “defense is apart of how you’re judged as a superstar” ONLY offensive when it’s Luka? Like no one would question this statement if it was about Trae Young or Westbrook or Harden.
“Luka oncic,” nice.
The only thing worse than a great shooter that doesn’t play defense, is one that also needs to have the ball is his hands. If he was an off ball shooter or spot up shooter he wouldn’t be nearly as much of a liability.
The same Chris whose ass was slapped in a West Conference Semi Finals by Luka? Yeah totally objective comments.
The same Chris who got his ass slapped by Steph for years?
The same Chris who was teammates with Steph
Bring back Pat Bev and Rajon Rondo
Luka plays basketball like a sociopath
Is it anti European month in the NBA or what?
People love Wemby so this can’t be it
Wemby didn’t win anything. Wait until he reaches the WCF and gives one of his eccentric quotes. After that, visit this subreddit.
Give it a month or a year haha or a bad game in the playoffs
Lol….I’m not even a Luka fan (I am a Nuggets/Jokic fan though) and I’m sure as hell noticing it. Sure seems odd that Luka bashing has been the focal point of a ton of sports shows, social media and from the players themselves all at the same time. I do attribute part of it to him playing for the Lakers…so there’s going to be more attention and scrutiny by default, but many of the sports “analysts” didn’t even think this Laker team was gong to be at all a decent squad this year…now that they’re basically reverting to the mean that most (including myself) thought they’d be, somehow Luka is the cause of all their misfortune? Come on. I get he has some annoying habits, but to be honest they’re not going to see whatever value there is with Luka as the star player until they get Lebron off the books and they can actually build the team around him.
It’s because he’s on the Lakers, this was always going to happen. Our young players (pre-LeBron) were still talked about nationally 24⁄7, especially Lonzo.
Luka is the default favorite player for people who have never played basketball at any level. People who like to think about basketball at most.
Sounds like 94.6% of laker fans
I’m a Laker and a Luka fan, CP3 ain’t wrong.
Why would anybody pick Luka over Shai?
CP is TRUTH!
Chris Paul for three to cut the lead by 49
But played on 2 James Harden teams. Ok buddy
Those teams played switch everything defenses vs steph curry and KD. I’d like to see Luka attempt to do that lol
Luka Pr at an all time low lmaooo
No one is picking Luka over Shai in 2026 except box score PRA fans
To be fair, it’s a lot easier for SGA when he gets to play with one of the best defensive teams. Curry too during the GSW golden years
I dont think luka is a championship type guy
I like the video Jxmyhighroller did recently on Luka’s defensive limitations.
Spoiler alert: the data shows he isn’t anywhere near as bad as the conversation would have you believe. He’s average.
Shhhhhh. Don’t tell anyone that. It doesn’t fit their narrative for shitting on Luka.