moby323 | 76ers

293 | 12 hours ago

NBA to Pacers

“You should shoot your player up with pain killers so they can play.”

Meanwhile:

“Utah Jazz guard Isaiah Collier to undergo season-ending haircut and nail-trim.”

Skank_hunt42 | Thunder

61 | 12 hours ago

Collier out (Week to week): Hurt Feelings. Will be reevaluated in 2 weeks.

TrickiestToast | Celtics

18 | 12 hours ago

He is also cold

Striking-Medium2360

9 | 12 hours ago

“What you mean he’s sick?”

“Nah it’s just chilly as fuck in Utah”

sloBrodanChillosevic | Supersonics

5 | 11 hours ago

And a little bit hungry, too

cire1184 | Lakers

1 | 3 hours ago

DNP: At the Buffet

dxiao | Raptors

2 | 10 hours ago

lol you scared me, i went to check my fantasy immediately haha

paddiction | SAS

22 | 12 hours ago

Zubac went from 30 mpg on the Clippers to baby bonding then ankle injury on the Pacers. I get it but let’s not pretend the Pacers aren’t sitting out players who could probably play.

Tijenater | IND

34 | 11 hours ago

Pascal’s been playing 35+ mpg all season up until post-asb. We were trying to win

BatmanNoPrep | Lakers

-8 | 10 hours ago

Siakum is extension eligible this coming offseason. He was trying to play for sure and would likely continue trying to play if his extension was in question. If he was assured an extension was on the way from management then of course he can sit post-ASB should management think it was a good strategy for the tank.

At least as of the ASB, the Pacers are obviously breaking the rules with the clear intention of tanking the season away and preparing for next season. The fact that other teams are also doing it or that the Pacers have a few counter examples doesn’t change that fact.

Maximum-Class5465

23 | 12 hours ago

He was injured on the Clippers too. He missed quite a few games early on, and the team was losing a lot. Just because a player plays doesn’t mean they’re not injured.

Carlisle said he expects his debut within two weeks. And anyone who watched the Pacers thinks that Zu is going to make them better this year hasn’t watched much Pacers basketball. H3ll, they took a step back when adding Pascal Siakam who’s 3 times the player is is

quedas | Magic

17 | 11 hours ago

I was trying to decipher what your comment meant until it clicked that you self-censored the word “hell”…

What the h3ll, man…

NeverSober1900 | Rockets

8 | 11 hours ago

Can’t be out here dropping those h-e-double-hockey-sticks in this family friendly sub

jackaholicus | Mavericks

5 | 11 hours ago

The problem is the league wants players to play if they could and would if the games were important.

Obviously it’s in the best interest of the pacers to get everyone fully healthy for next year.

It’s the difference between not trying and intentionally losing that’s a bit of a blurred line.

OpeDefinitely | Pacers

15 | 11 hours ago

Every rotation player to start the season with the Pacers other than Siakam, Walker, and Huff has missed serious time this season with legitimate injuries.

We’re at the point in the season where a serious injury to any player will bleed well into next season. And Furphy *just* blew up his ACL a couple weeks ago. He’ll likely be out until next winter, which is especially disappointing considering that Rick had just found a nasty small ball front court with Siakam, Walker, and Furphy.

I wish that the Pacers would shut everybody down. The season is too long & the score is already posted: the Pacers aren’t making the playoffs & they’re playing for nothing. I’d rather lose our draft pick than have another major rotation guy suffer a serious foot/ankle/knee injury.

ballsohaahd

14 | 12 hours ago

Yea I mean it’s tough, the solution is not having fake independent medical people paid by the league to look at every injury.

So sooo fucking stupid. Adam silver is a clown.

They need to want teams to be good about injuries and sitting players, not having fake independent medical people overruling things.

Just unreal.

clayfu | Clippers

9 | 12 hours ago

He hurt his ankle when carrying his baby obviously

mr-301 | Pacers

3 | 12 hours ago

Do you have kids?

nowhathappenedwas | NBA

6 | 11 hours ago

The league fined the Jazz \(500K on the same day they fined the Pacers \)100K. They also fined the Jazz last year for sitting Lauri to tank.

cyclingtrivialities3

3 | 12 hours ago

https://i.imgflip.com/al0cpj.jpg

nerdyykidd | Celtics

276 | 12 hours ago

Respect to Carlisle for having his player’s back

costanzathegreat | Warriors

153 | 12 hours ago

He’s also dead on, Nesmith plays as hard as anyone in the league

Every time I watch him his hustle is something special

Potemkin_Jedi | Pacers

85 | 11 hours ago

Hali gets the iconic Reggie choke for hitting that shot in ECF G1, but the real Reggie was Nesmith hitting 6 4th quarter threes to make the comeback possible.

OpeDefinitely | Pacers

30 | 11 hours ago

Hey now, one or two of those were set up by Tyrese making crazy reads!

For whatever reason, many of those 3s were wide open - I think NYK were kind of gassed and unintentionally sagging off a bit. The Pacers’ playoff meta strategy was to wear the opposing team out and it was successful. That’s what enabled so many comebacks.

Still totally bonkers that Nesmith made 6 3pt shots in the final 8 minutes of the 4th or whatever. The guy is a walking bucket. If Nesmith can improve his free throw shooting & manage to stay healthy, he’ll be part of the 50/40/90 club someday.

theconmeister | Pacers

14 | 11 hours ago

Bro it was like the finally 2:30

OpeDefinitely | Pacers

15 | 11 hours ago

it looks like we’re both wrong. it was apparently 5 minutes.

theconmeister | Pacers

13 | 11 hours ago

Every time I tell it, it gets shorter

SkiPolarBear22 | Pacers

1 | 8 hours ago

Swear to GAWD, the fish was THIS long

Dull-Language-9854

11 | 10 hours ago

He was 50-40-90 last year, just didn’t qualify for recognition because of games played.

OpeDefinitely | Pacers

11 | 10 hours ago

Shit you’re right. I didn’t realize that he was shooting better than 90% from the line.

sorendiz | HOU

17 | 10 hours ago

Deadass the last 5 minutes of that 4th quarter from Nesmith are in my personal list of greatest playoff moments ever. Every 3 that went in was like ‘holy shit, but no fucking way he does it AGAIN………… unless?’ and then he just kept draining them

OpeDefinitely | Pacers

11 | 11 hours ago

It’s not just Nesmith’s hustle that’s special. The dude can flat out ball. He’s been a little injury prone over his career, but:

He’s a 3-level scorer on 50-40 splits.
His defense is insane. Both on-ball defense & when playing in a more complicated, switch-heavy scheme.
He’s a great screener & rebounder.
He’s smart & quick to make reads. The fit next to Haliburton is crazy good.
(certain) advanced stats go brrrrr.

I don’t think he’s far behind Siakam as far as importance to the Pacers is concerned. It’s really hard to find guys like that.

____

Tangentially, Nesmith and Nembhard (who has many of the same strengths) are a huge part of the reason why the Pacers aren’t so concerned about draft picks outside of the top 3 or 4. The whole story is something like this:

Nesmith & Nembhard are already perfect fits with Tyrese & Siakam.
Zubac fixes issues at center & is an upgrade over Myles.
The bench is stacked with guys like TJM, Toppin, Walker, Furphy, and Huff.
Prospects outside of the very top of the draft will probably need development minutes that Rick won’t be giving out next season.
The Pacers have been pretty bad at drafting in general. Most of their talent has come via trades & free agency.

silliputti0907 | NBA

0 | 9 hours ago

They got a lot winning players, but no true number one. Hali and Siakam shared that role well. I thought Mathurin could’ve grown into that role.

OpeDefinitely | Pacers

10 | 9 hours ago

Tyrese is definitely a “true number one”. He definitely is not a traditional number one. Important distinction.

The only guy in the league who gets more touches than Tyrese is Jokic. On any given possession, Tyrese is going to get either himself or a teammate into a shot of higher expected value than the average shot taken by the median star-level number 1 option. Tyrese isn’t putting up 20 shots per game, but he raises the floor of his teammates to the extent that he doesn’t need to. And in clutch time? When it’s time for number 1 options to win the game with their own shots? Yep, Tyrese does that too.

Mathurin obviously isn’t (yet) consistent enough to be a number 1 option, but he did have plenty of games in Indiana where he played like a star-level number 1 option. In such games, the Pacers’ “random action” offense would yield for Mathurin. Tyrese would then get relegated to standing in the corner for spacing.

For the most part, Mathuruin was great in these games: he’d look unstoppable, putting up 25-30+ with efficient shooting; rebounding well; and playing good on-ball defense. However, Indiana rarely won these games.

Down the stretch of elite Mathurin games, opposing teams would sell out to slow down Mathurin. If the game was close - and elite Mathurin games almost always were - just a couple mid Mathurin possessions could lose the game for Indiana. And therein lies the rub: it will almost always be easier for NBA teams to beat opponents being carried by one guy’s elite pull-up & ISO game than it is to beat opponents being carried by Haliburton-led random action offense.

___

Mathurin’s time in Indiana made me skeptical that a traditional, star-level number 1 option would work out in Indiana. For such a player to not destroy the Pacers’ offensive magic, he’d probably have to be extremely smart and play the game with an uncanny similarity to prime LeBron.

isubird33 | Pacers

3 | 5 hours ago

For the most part, Mathuruin was great in these games: he’d look unstoppable, putting up 25-30+ with efficient shooting; rebounding well; and playing good on-ball defense. However, Indiana rarely won these games.

Yup, this is what a lot of people miss when they look at how Benn is doing in LA now and what the Pacers were thinking about trading him. He can be an awesome player in a certain system. He had a lot of great games for the Pacers. But usually if Benn had an amazing stat-line game, it meant the Pacers system had something go wrong and it was going to be a loss or a really tight game.

The Pacers are at their best when they have 6 or 7 guys in double figures…not 1 guy with 36.

OpeDefinitely | Pacers

2 | 5 hours ago

I don’t even think that it’s that Mathurin simply had amazing “stat line games.” He had amazing games period.

As you said, Mathurin’s great games were generally the result of something upstream breaking down. When Mathurin got going, it did little to help the rest of the team get on track: his game never fit well with the Pacers’ system & broader strengths.

The good news for Mathurin is that it’s the Pacers’ who play a weird brand of basketball. It’s not that Mathurin plays inherently losing basketball. He just wasn’t a great fit for us in particular.

isubird33 | Pacers

2 | 5 hours ago

Yeah, you’re totally right there. And agreed…he’s going to be a great player on a team that plays more “normal” NBA basketball. His play style was just a weird fit for how the Pacers wanted to build a team.

silliputti0907 | NBA

1 | 7 hours ago

By number 1, i meant de facto scorer. Haliburton was elite closer, and Siakam can handle iso work, so it worked out.

OpeDefinitely | Pacers

2 | 6 hours ago

Since the Pacers traded for Siakam and Haliburton have been isolating at the same rate. Both guys can get a bucket in isolation when needed, but neither do it often.

I think you’re (understandably) confusing Siakam’s post-ups for isolation scoring. It definitely true that Siakam is an excellent post-up player whose reliable post scoring has been very impactful for Indiana. Pascal is top-10 in post-up volume across the NBA.

Haliburton’s scoring impact is definitely a little more all over the place. Instead of having a single very well-refined go-to that compares to Siakam’s post-ups, Haliburton’s shot diet is one of the most balanced in the NBA. His distribution of layups, floaters, mid-range shots, and 3pt attempts is as close to perfect as I’ve seen. Mix that in with his “best possible action” mindset, and yep you’re right: Ty’s nightly scoring is more volatile.

silliputti0907 | NBA

1 | 6 hours ago

I’m not confusing, i fully meant to consider his post scoring as iso scoring.

Im badly explaining this. I just consider both of the second tier scorers, but they work together a first tier scorer can take them to the next level.

OpeDefinitely | Pacers

1 | 5 hours ago

No worries man, I understand what you’re saying. I mostly agree, although I’ve watched Tyrese enough to know that he can & does elevate himself into tier 1 scorer level when he absolutely needs to. G5 of last year’s eastern semi-finals, for example.

He’d generally prefer to get other guys great looks than take 20 shots himself, but Tyrese can score the ball like any tier 1 scorer I’ve seen. He just doesn’t shift into that mode until he’s realize that his teammates are bricking everything. Very weird archetype of player.

isubird33 | Pacers

1 | 5 hours ago

That’s valid, but it’s also not how the Pacers are set up or how they have the most success recently. In those games where Benn looked like a first tier scorer, it meant something had gone wrong in the Pacers system.

The Pacers thrive on having a lot of different options for scoring, and not needing/almost trying to avoid having any one guy take over a game. Last season they had 6 guys average over 10 points per game in the playoffs and 2 more guys at 9 or more. Most teams don’t look like that in the playoffs. Knicks had 5 guys over 10 and no one else over 6. OKC had 3 and 1 additional over 9.

tlj2494 | Celtics

11 | 12 hours ago

I loved him in Boston and I wanted him to work so much. It was always about health though. He does play so hard. He was like Marcus smart 2.0 but a little more injury prone. It’s unfortunate

GenoThyme | Celtics

6 | 10 hours ago

I don’t think he becomes the player he is if we don’t trade him. Getting to start and play through his mistakes on a non-playoff team with no real pressure is a lot different than backing up the Jays on a title contender. Plus trading him got us Brogdon who got us Jrue. Trades where both teams very much benefit are great.

ReflectionEterna | Pacers

5 | 9 hours ago

Rare, but great.

tlj2494 | Celtics

2 | 9 hours ago

It was best for both sides. No doubt. I just really liked him and wanted him to succeed so happy he found a home

[deleted]

2 | 12 hours ago

He’s a great coach

running_wired

-8 | 11 hours ago

He had to. The team is damaging the players reps and free agency opportunities by tanking. Most players are playing for their next contract. Teams notice and track everything… Not playing when they could starts to follow guys especially when it becomes a trend. It especially hurts role players.

Ornery-Youth-9650

-21 | 12 hours ago

he has the front office’s back too lying like this about tanking

SwashbucklingWeiner | Pacers

13 | 12 hours ago

Pacers are famous for not tanking so let’s relax a bit. They might be now and should have before but this is unusual by their standards.

Ornery-Youth-9650

-9 | 11 hours ago

yeah let’s all slow down here we only need 50 more games to decide if they’re tanking

SwashbucklingWeiner | Pacers

9 | 11 hours ago

No I’m saying relax because they don’t tank often. Please learn how to read better.

Ornery-Youth-9650

-4 | 11 hours ago

What? You said it yourself, that they “might” be tanking. There’s no “might” here. buddy I watched them play all their players and go balls to the wall against the knicks and okc, only to watch them sit everyone against the wizards a day later. It’s ok to hold your team to a higher standard, give it a try.

JourneytotheSon

5 | 11 hours ago

We played the Thunder ¹⁄₂₃ and then Knicks ²⁄₁₀. Wizards were ²⁄₁₉ and ²⁄₂₀ so “a day later” is wildly inaccurate.

UltralightFishing132

79 | 12 hours ago

Carlisle has always had his player’s backs. He’s such an under appreciated coach. So happy to have him back in Indiana.

Imaginary_Crab2034

11 | 12 hours ago

Unless it’s Rondo or Nerlens Noel IFYKYK

rawspeghetti | Celtics

13 | 9 hours ago

As a fan of Rondo for his entire career I’ll be the first to admit he’s an asshole

ReflectionEterna | Pacers

3 | 9 hours ago

It’s true that he is an asshole, but also a very likeable one for fans.

fuzzynavel34 | IND

76 | 12 hours ago

That’s my fucking coach

Naughty_Darling-25

18 | 12 hours ago

Say what you want, he always backs his guys.

Statalyzer

6 | 11 hours ago

But who’s your basketball coach? :p

Lusty-Jove | Heat

30 | 11 hours ago

The league should not be dictating how much and whether players play, full stop.

Kodak333 | Hawks

-17 | 9 hours ago

That’s nonsense

ReflectionEterna | Pacers

10 | 9 hours ago

Nah. The coaches and players should only be concerned with winning championships. Resting guys is a part of that.

Kodak333 | Hawks

-3 | 8 hours ago

And the league office should be worried about the product of the league since it’s an entertainment business

MattyIce260 | Pacers

2 | 8 hours ago

Maybe Silver should focus on Ballmer circumventing the salary cap first

Kodak333 | Hawks

1 | 8 hours ago

Believe it or not he can do both

tacopower69 | DEN

1 | 4 hours ago

“wont anyone think about the profits?!”

Lusty-Jove | Heat

2 | 8 hours ago

Why should Adam Silver be dictating teams’ lineups and rotations?

FizzyLightEx

0 | 6 hours ago

NBA is a business entity. They are more like WWE than a sport

Paralta | MIA

29 | 12 hours ago

Even if you’re wrong, it still means a lot to the players that he was on their side. Great coaching and leadership

HolyRomanPrince | Lakers

27 | 11 hours ago

He definitely got a call from Secaucus to shut the fuck up. I think Silver might have actually been pushed to a limit this year.

RanOutOfCharact | Slovenia

18 | 11 hours ago

Common Carlisle W

Next-Supermarket9538 | Pacers

17 | 10 hours ago

If the NBA disputes his account, show us the receipts. Rick doesn’t strike me as a guy who makes shit up.

Santiago_Burbano

15 | 12 hours ago

Could the Pacers not sue the league if they really wanted to

Mobile-Entertainer60 | Thunder

16 | 12 hours ago

The NBA constitution severely limits the ability of owners to sue the league.

running_wired

-30 | 11 hours ago

You’re focusing too much on Nesmith. The league fined them because they obviously rest multiple healthy players in the game in question.

Despite what Rick is trying to spin the Pacers are actively tanking and the league fine was for tanking. Nesmith was only a fraction of that decision.

AggravatingFinding71 | Pacers

19 | 11 hours ago

We won the game

JourneytotheSon

1 | 11 hours ago

They fined us for the Jazz game that we lost. Not the Nets game

rabidantidentyte | Nets

-8 | 11 hours ago

Despite your best efforts

Edit: and the fine wasn’t for either NY game, btw. It was for the Jazz game that you lost.

SloppyPizzaPie | Pacers

13 | 11 hours ago

Somehow you’re like 0-3 in this single comment

odubbin | Pacers

7 | 8 hours ago

Fuck Adam Silver

tateymbatey | Pacers

4 | 9 hours ago

Common Pacers org W.

Immediate_Side_5942

2 | 7 hours ago

Let’s not pretend some players they are sitting certainly can play. Or maybe he just has some weird rotations. Mb not nesmith case but he’s sitting players come on

Vet100

-17 | 12 hours ago

So was he actually wrong/lying after all? I’m not sure why you’d be happy to “move forward” if how he presented it earlier was the truth? I certainly wouldn’t be ok with that.

Boner_Patrol_007 | Pacers

23 | 12 hours ago

Probably doesn’t want to incite more retaliation from the league.

Tijenater | IND

11 | 11 hours ago

Nothing in the league’s statement refutes what he said. The only dubious point is that they claimed the pacers said they didn’t need to talk with a team doctor, when the pacers said they never conferred with a team doctor

Next-Supermarket9538 | Pacers

4 | 10 hours ago

I’m sure he got a call from the league with an “offer he couldn’t refuse” to shut the F up.

Malcolm_Reynolds1 | Pacers

5 | 10 hours ago

It better be offering the first overall pick for shutting up

nowhathappenedwas | NBA

-16 | 11 hours ago

Carlisle is great for defending his guy, but he’s pretending the fine was just for sitting Nesmith. The league’s announcement didn’t even mention Nesmith.

Were Siakam, Nembhard, TJ, and Potter all injured, too? Of course not.

The Pacers sat three starters and two rotation players (who all played the games before and after) because they didn’t want to get out-tanked by the Jazz. Everyone knows this, and it’s weird that everyone is pretending to have forgotten.

kirito6521 | Timberwolves

18 | 10 hours ago

That may very well be the case, but it’s the second night of the back to back, and all their key players played till the last minute in the previous game, so is not uncommon at all for team to rest players in that case (Warriors, Lakers, etc. all did this a lot), it’s not purposefully“tanking” imo.

I feel like the league just wanna punish taking and saw this games as a perfect opportunity to do so without really looking into it. And now it’s blowing up so they just making up stuff to save face.

Malcolm_Reynolds1 | Pacers

12 | 10 hours ago

And the league rules say if you need to, rest your guys for a game in a b2b, and do it during the home game if there is one. Which is what they did

Malcolm_Reynolds1 | Pacers

9 | 10 hours ago

In no way, shape, or form did the Pacers violate any league rules. The rules EXPLICITLY state if you are going to rest multiple players, do it for one game of a b2b, and ideally the home game if one of them is at home. That is exactly what the Pacers did.

nowhathappenedwas | NBA

-8 | 9 hours ago

The rule explicitly states that if you’re going to sit multiple players in a back to back, that you should split them up.

Read it again.

Malcolm_Reynolds1 | Pacers

9 | 9 hours ago

I think you should go read it again, because their player participation policy only discusses star players. Only Siakam is a star for Indiana this season

nowhathappenedwas | NBA

0 | 9 hours ago

The part about back to backs is only about star players, and it says the exact opposite of what your original comment said.

And the policy does not only apply to star players.

Any team that violates any of the foregoing provisions, or otherwise has a player who does not participate in a game in circumstances that are, in the opinion of the Commissioner, prejudicial or detrimental to the NBA, shall be subject to the following penalty under Article 35A(d) of the NBA Constitution:

In short: the league does not encourage teams to sit everyone together (duh), and the player participation policy can be enforced for sitting non-stars.

Malcolm_Reynolds1 | Pacers

3 | 8 hours ago

The commissioner needs to talk to team doctors if he wants too be taken seriously by anyone in the league.

ClaimElectronic6840

2 | 9 hours ago

is this an Adam silver burner?

xebex1778 | Knicks

-47 | 12 hours ago

There is something to be said that the Pacers have gone all out to beat the Knicks and Thunder, with everyone suddenly healthy, and then played G-leaguers vs the Wizards.

WheresRobb

48 | 12 hours ago

The Pacers were playing G leaguers against the Knicks as well. Micah Potter and Quenton Jackson got 30 minutes

xebex1778 | Knicks

-39 | 12 hours ago

Quenton Jackson was a Pacers rotation player last year, and Micah Potter was a rotation player for the Jazz last year.

ifasoldt | Pacers

33 | 12 hours ago

QJ was NOT a rotation player for us last year. He played when we had injuries. He played 28 games last year and didn’t see the court in the playoffs.

running_wired

11 | 12 hours ago

Jackson is literally on a two way contract and the Jazz are literally a G-League team. I judge the commenter above to be correct.

mr-301 | Pacers

9 | 12 hours ago

No he fucking wasn’t he played 28 games purely as injury cover. To call him a rotation player is wild,

yemeson | Pacers

5 | 12 hours ago

Quentin Jackson was on a 2-way contract last season. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

Dirigible_Plums | Pacers

5 | 12 hours ago

I dont recall him playing 30 minutes in playoffs at all

MattyIce260 | Pacers

3 | 11 hours ago

He’s not even on the 15 man roster he’s a two-way player

WheresRobb

3 | 12 hours ago

And who were the G league players they played against the Wizards last game?

Penguinho

3 | 12 hours ago

The same Jazz who everyone was mad about doing tanking? He was a rotation player for the Jazz?

HeyItsChase | Pacers

25 | 12 hours ago

That’s some nice cope. QJ looked way way better than Brunson in clutch time of that game its fine.

TheeCarlWinslow | Pacers

6 | 12 hours ago

It doesn’t matter who you play when you own a franchise

aimee829 | Pacers

4 | 12 hours ago

which supports his concern this year that …. when they go hard, someone always gets re-injured.

i guess, the difference would be, because they’re not fighting to get into the playoffs, so there is no urgency to come-back from injury and play.

as for okc and nyk, the first game of a back to back always bring in more effort.

while the wizards and mavs game felt like a defiant move in reaction to the fine before the All Star Break…

ReflectionEterna | Pacers

3 | 9 hours ago

Too easy to beat bad teams like the Knicks.

hrxbgdchg

1 | 11 hours ago

Basketball players are human too. Opposing teams play harder against rivals/championship teams. Now fill the opposing teams with guys with chips on their shoulders playing the thunder and Knicks who start the game on cruise control

thepeachgod | Celtics

-24 | 12 hours ago

I mean anyone who watches the NBA knows they’re as shameless as Utah. Hell I’d even say Utah is less shameless because at least guys like Collier and Bailey and Filipowski are going to factor into future plans. Like Indiana brought 7 healthy guys to Detroit a month ago and had all the starters laughing on the bench the whole time and people will say it’s different cause Hali is out

Rick Carlisle’s response when asked for a follow up after the NBA called his characterization of events inaccurate. “The Aaron Nesmith situation was bothersome… He goes so hard for our organization, I just felt it’s important to support him and support the organization.”