https://grantland.com/the-triangle/flopping-in-the-nba-a-history-of-nonviolence/

Fantastic longread on the history of flopping. main message:

The notion that this problem is somehow worse now than it was in the ’50s, when there were only eight teams, or the ’60s, when there were 14, is ludicrous. The problem isn’t worse; our ability to see it in high-def, slow-motion replay is better.

It also includes parts from an SI article of 1963 called: “Smart moves by a master of deception”. And includes among others how Celtics guard Jack Ramsey tried to draw fouls:

This ploy probably was originated by Dolph Schayes. Certainly he always did it better than anyone else. It utilizes reverse psychology on the referee. The man with the ball starts in good position but then creates the foul deliberately by bumping before he shoots. It happens so fast, though, that the officials believe the defensive man must have fouled — on the theory that nobody would be looking for trouble if he is set for a shot. It should be done very subtly, though, so that it does not embarrass an official. I never try to make an official look bad.

twovles31

27 | 6 hours ago

And the players would give a hard closeline foul to get them to stop.

Ambitious-Net483

7 | 5 hours ago

But now these players are on quarter billion dollar contracts so the league would have players fined massively if they brought this back

Eastern_Antelope_832

18 | 6 hours ago

Eh, there’s a big difference between “it exists” with “it’s prevalent.” From my estimation, it’s definitely becoming more commonplace. And with all things strategy related, how people flop evolves.

But the big thing for me is that front offices and analytics actually want you to go to the line unless you shoot like Shaq. Just like FOs and coaches didn’t tell their guys to shoot 3s, they didn’t employ empirical evidence why drawing a foul can be better than taking an open shot.

nex_eden

5 | 6 hours ago

both frank ramsey (career 80%) and schayes (85%) were better ft shooters than this year’s fta leader, luka, while shooting much worse from the field - neither even hit 40℅ even without a 3pt line. all evidence suggests it’s less valuable to hunt fouls now, relative to a regular shot, than then

Roger_Weebert

12 | 6 hours ago

That doesn’t really change the fact that the value of 2 free throws is higher than the value of almost any shot you can take. The only time it’s definitely worse to draw a foul is if a player had an open layup/dunk, instead swerved into contact, and missed the attempt at the and 1.

Eastern_Antelope_832

4 | 6 hours ago

Exactly. And if you make the layup, exaggerate any contact and maybe you get an and one.

Faking it is just too valuable because the punishment for flopping isn’t enforced enough.

Last-Strike8017

0 | 5 hours ago

The wild thing for me is that I keep reading about too much flopping and all these free throws (you didn’t state this in your comment so I’m not directing this directly at you) yet last season we had the lowest amount of free throws per game ever.

Riker_Omega_Three

9 | 6 hours ago

Taking a charge, absorbing contact, and making it seem like the contact was harder than it was is not a flop

When you go up for a shot and someone swats the ball and it grazes your hand and the ball…so you act like your hand got hit instead of the ball…is not a flop

A flop is when someone barely touches you and you fall down like prime Shaq Diesel just gave you an elbow to the face

There is a difference

n8bitgaming | Pistons

1 | 4 hours ago

Agreed

There’s a difference between selling the call when there’s contact on a shot attempt and running into defenders only to them act like you’re being fouled without any actual intent to attempt to score

efshoemaker | Celtics

1 | 3 hours ago

I think you’re missing one other element which is manufacturing a foul when the offensive player goes out of his way to create contact that wouldn’t have happened if he was actually trying to score - shit like the rip through, sticking out your leg on a jump shot, or guys throwing themselves sideways in the paint

Riker_Omega_Three

0 | 3 hours ago

That’s a completely different thing entirely

It’s not flopping either

James Harden, for example, didn’t flop

James Harden exploited crappy rules to maximize trips to the free throw line. It’s crappy uninteresting basketball

But it wasn’t against the rules at the time

imArsenals | Slovenia

0 | 6 hours ago

Completely agreed. It’s annoying how every calls selling contact a flop. The word has no meaning anymore.

Riker_Omega_Three

3 | 6 hours ago

LeBron does both

He sells real fouls to make sure they get called…and he flops like a European Soccer player

The fact so many people don’t understand the difference is crazy

I am annoyed by his flops but don’t have a problem with him selling a foul

Last-Strike8017

-3 | 6 hours ago

Making it seem harder than it was is the definition of flopping. Sure, there are multiple levels to the amount of drama you put into it but to claim overselling contact or even taking it is not a flop is ridiculous…

Riker_Omega_Three

4 | 6 hours ago

If you don’t know the difference between selling a foul and flopping then you don’t watch basketball

not sure what to tell you

It’s clear someone you are a fan of gets accused of flopping and it has made you butthurt

Flopping is different

Last-Strike8017

3 | 5 hours ago

So, tell me what Shai does then. By your definition he is mostly selling fouls. Where do you draw the line?

worry_ab-urself-bud

-2 | 4 hours ago

“Selling a foul” and flopping are literally synonymous. I hear people like you everytime I ref tho. Very very easy to tune out since you make literally no sense whatsoever

Awanderingleaf

4 | 5 hours ago

It’s not about it being a new thing, it’s about how frequent it is now.

TheGoldenTikiROCKS

2 | 6 hours ago

Silly, old enough to trust my own eyes.

Bone_Dogg | Bulls

2 | 3 hours ago

Murder is as old as humanity. It’s still bad.

Last-Strike8017

1 | 3 hours ago

The article is not claiming that it is not bad.

Bone_Dogg | Bulls

1 | 3 hours ago

Then we good baby

TheRedHerring23

1 | 6 hours ago

Sure, the idea of trying to sell a foul has always existed, but not to the soccer level theatrics it is today, and not as much, and moreso than that, it was usually those inbetween players trying to do it. The top stars weren’t flop artists the way you see today with LeFlop always flopping, and shai and harden on offense.

NoLimitSoldier31

1 | 4 hours ago

OP was not around when Ginobli came thru i take it?

Last-Strike8017

2 | 3 hours ago

OP is 42 and from Rik Smits area so i saw Reggie Miller draw tons of fouls by running into screens and flailing.

Rahnamatta | Heat

1 | 37 minutes ago

IIRC, the NBA add a fine for flopping and Ginóbili didnt get a single fine.

54strife

1 | 18 minutes ago

Or Flopmaster Vlade

justintensity | Lakers

1 | 2 hours ago

For the record - Jack Ramsay was the mastermind behind the Walton Blazers. Frank Ramsey was the celtic guard and original sixth man (pretty sure the article meant to say Frank)

Hopeful_Tea2139 | Lakers

1 | 21 minutes ago

Anybody else flopped so hard, he went off-camera? 🤣🤣

WinesburgOhio | 76ers

1 | 18 minutes ago

Frank Ramsey (not Jack) bragged about how he would flop and fall to draw falls in that Dec. 9, 1963, issue of SI. Refs were PISSED about the article and let him take a beating the rest of the year. HOF ref Earl Strom said so in his autobiography, and the stats show that Ramsey shot far less FTA’s per game after that point while still being called for about the same amount of fouls per game. He retired at the end of the season.

Flopping is as old as the game