AnkitPancakes | Thunder

94 | 5 hours ago

whatever the 2015 and 2022 warriors did which included having the 2 greatest shooters of all time

thepeachgod | Celtics

15 | 5 hours ago

Also Draymond who’s one of the best defenders in NBA history

AnkitPancakes | Thunder

24 | 5 hours ago

To be fair - so is Gobert, so that’s accounted for

thepeachgod | Celtics

3 | 4 hours ago

Ok maybe I meant adaptable because Golden State could hide a lot of flaws with an immobile big man by sticking their 6’6 lead playmaker at center and simply running teams out of the building

Legitimate_Cow_4166 | Warriors

1 | 3 hours ago

No it’s not accounted for. Draymond is one of the best switchable defenders ever. So it’s not the same type of defense and being able to switch in today’s league is far more valuable.

SpaceCoyote3

2 | an hour ago

Switchability is not more valuable than Goberts or Draymonds rim protection - both of whom played all time great level paint defense

The loss of draymonds ball handling and passing is what the prime warriors would actually miss (they still would’ve won lolz)

Legitimate_Cow_4166 | Warriors

0 | 41 minutes ago

It certianly is come playoff time. Paint defense in a game predicated on perimeter shooting isn’t as valuable anymore.

Icy_Information_6563

1 | 3 hours ago

Well what they did was not play their bigs much. Draymond was still a decent enough offensive threat where you can’t just leave him alone

RobertLobLaw2 | Jazz

1 | 2 hours ago

The Jazz surrounded Gobert with Donovan Mitchell, Mike Conley, Joe Ingles, and Bojan Bogdanovich. Mitchell is the worst shooter out of that group and he was hitting 36% from 3 on nearly 10 attempts per game in his last season with the jazz. The year before Mitchell shot 39% on 9 attempts.

Still wasn’t enough.

AnkitPancakes | Thunder

5 | an hour ago

maybe, and stick with me here, Steph Curry alone is more talented and impactful than all of those players combined. imagine having more than just him!

RobertLobLaw2 | Jazz

1 | 41 minutes ago

Maybe, and stick with me here, we’re saying the same thing.

GregEgg4President | Wizards

68 | 5 hours ago

Spacing and shooting.

Which is how I’d construct a team even if I didn’t have an elite defensive center.

Shepher27 | Timberwolves

30 | 5 hours ago

And wing defenders. Utah had spacing and shooting, but everyone else was so bad on defense that the Clippers just put five shooters on the floor so Gobert had to stay home and then burned the other perimeter defenders time after time after time.

Penguinho

6 | 3 hours ago

The recipe looks a lot like the Bucks in 2021: a two-way guard, a two-way wing who can initiate the offense, a for-real star, and a three-n-D guy who guards big wings. 5-1, Brook, Giannis, PJ Tucker/Jae Crowder, Khris, Jrue. So maybe something like Gobert, Herb Jones, Trey Murphy III, Shai, Derrick White.

finchdad | Suns

11 | 4 hours ago

Draft Curry at #7 sounds like a good idea.

Broski28of25 | France

5 | 4 hours ago

I always find it funny that Minnesota had 2 chances to draft him.

shingofan | Raptors

1 | 4 hours ago

I have to wonder if we’d still have this conversation if Rubio panned out, given his success in Euroleague

Professional_Hour445

2 | 4 hours ago

This is the answer. That’s how Houston won those two championships while Jordan was playing baseball. The Rockets surrounded Hakeem with sharpshooters like Kenny Smith, Sam Cassell, and Vernon Maxwell.

DazzlingAd1922

1 | 5 hours ago

Throw in an elite point of attack defender too.

127crazie | Timberwolves

69 | 5 hours ago

Starting PG: Mitchell Robinson

Starting SG: Jarrett Allen

Starting SF: Steven Adams

Starting PF: Rudy Gobert

Starting C: Andre Drummond

Bench: Jalen Duren, Mark Williams, Donovan Clingan, Walker Kessler

DazzlingAd1922

21 | 5 hours ago

The other team can only foul 72 times in a game before you win by default!

seavictory | Bucks

6 | 4 hours ago

I think once your team is down to 5 players left, you can’t foul out anymore and you can go above 6 fouls.

AnkitPancakes | Thunder

3 | 5 hours ago

Hartenstein snubbed!!!!

koala37

8 | 4 hours ago

he has too much range lol

Anora6666 | Jazz

17 | 5 hours ago

Well certainly not by what the Jazz tried. Imo you need someone else that can guard the perimeter too. Jazz tried just having shooters out there but Gobert cant be everywhere and imo makes sense paired with someone like Rip Hamilton Kirilenko or Odom. Someone who is versitile enough to play slightly above average perimeter D.

DukeOfStuff_ | Timberwolves

12 | 4 hours ago

I think Jaden has really done well in that role

TonyHawktuah69

0 | 3 hours ago

That’s really the issue with Rudy. For all the talk about how elite his defense is, you need to surround him with elite 2 way players to cover him and also make up for his lack of offense? You can’t be taking up 20-30% of the cap, be that big of a liability on offense while also needing to be surrounded with top tier 2 way players.

To justify that level of cap commitment you either need to be prime Dwight Howard, or able to fully backpack a teams defense

Icy_Information_6563

1 | 3 hours ago

Ya I agree. But the interesting thing is, there’s a lot of guys that play great perimeter defense that aren’t expensive because they aren’t tall. We have several of them. Opposing teams are taking advantage of this by attacking the paint relentlessly, and Mark Williams is basically being asked to be an elite rim protector and rebounder. So, I do wonder what our team would look like with Gobert on our squad, and the salaries would basically work if we swapped him and Jalen Green (and ya, I understand that the Wolves would never make that trade).

TonyHawktuah69

1 | 3 hours ago

The wolves are essentially the perfect situation for Rudy. They have forwards that can shoot, a true super star 2 way guard, and they’ve had tons of solid 2 way wings and players the last couple years. And they’ve made 2 straight conference finals. They are pretty much the apex you can get out of Rudy gobert team which is pretty damn good. A title contender that’s maybe a step or two down from the actual best team in the league.

But they have had to make sacrifices due to cap. They had to trade Kat and let Alexander Walker go (who’s now having a breakout season in Atlanta). I don’t know how much better he’d be on the suns.

TheFakeBillPierce

14 | 5 hours ago

As a Jazz fan who watched Rudy up close for so long, I will say the obvious of spacing and shooting, but ill add that you need an A level point of attack defender and an A level perimeter defender. Everyone says Rudy got played off the floor in our playoff losses. We would have been just fine if he had had what I just said.

Andy_Wiggins | Timberwolves

5 | 4 hours ago

I don’t think you need an A-level point of attack defender and an A-level perimeter defender.

You need at least a pair of capable defenders around him. The Jazz squads got cooked because Conley, Mitchell, Ingles, and Bojan were all average at best defenders (with some being downright bad). Royce O’Neale was the only quality defender the Jazz had and he was like a B- defender. That’s what made them vulnerable.

I also think that finding a big to play next to him who can exploit mismatches in the post (while providing some spacing/no flammable perimeter defense) is valuable. Their failings in Utah were largely about being unable to punish small ball because Rudy struggles with anything that’s not a simple catch and dunk. They found success in Minnesota with KAT and Randle who can bully smaller players if teams try to go ultra small.

TheFakeBillPierce

1 | 4 hours ago

Fair enough!

Flamdoublebounce | Bucks

4 | 5 hours ago

This analysis is what I was looking for, thank you! But I guess the question is how do you get all of that defending without sacrificing too much offense since most guys in the league aren’t great 2 way players

BailysmmmCreamy | Heat

0 | 4 hours ago

Sounds like you need…just about everything that every team wants in the modern NBA. What’s the point of investing in a Gobert/Robinson type player if you need to surround them with elite defenders and shooting to be effective?

TheFakeBillPierce

3 | 4 hours ago

“be effective” =/= “winning a championship”

BailysmmmCreamy | Heat

1 | an hour ago

Okay, to win a championship. Same question.

TheFakeBillPierce

1 | 23 minutes ago

I mean, nobody in the history of basketball has won a title on their own. The question was what to give Rudy so that he could lead you to a title. And so I gave the answer; you need to space the floor but you also need three good or 2 great defenders around him. Him not having to do everything on defense unlocks him to dominate what he can.

A320neo | Celtics

12 | 5 hours ago

The 2024 Celtics would win the championship with either of those players starting. Horford would probably still play ~20 mins per night, but the team around them is good enough to make up for their black hole offense.

msf97

14 | 5 hours ago

Maybe i’m missing something, but Mitch Robinson is constantly injured and nowhere near Gobert.

koala37

6 | 4 hours ago

I think they were being compared in type, not by caliber of player

Joezepey | Knicks

-3 | 5 hours ago

Idk if that’s a fair characterization. The knicks have him on a minutes restriction, plus they dont play him on back to backs. His ankle injury may be chronic at this point, or the knicks may just be overly cautious since this ankle injury has happened twice. But he’s still playing regularly since he returned from the injury last year.

For reference, he’s playing in 71% of games this season and 59% of all games in his career.

FromSaintsToSellers | Spurs

3 | 4 hours ago

Yeah he never plays lmao. Not even close to the amount of value you can get from Gobert. It’s physically impossible to “build a championship team” around Robinson, not as much around Gobert.

Joezepey | Knicks

1 | 4 hours ago

Ok but Gobert makes almost 3x as much as robinson does. Robinson is the 6th highest paid knick

[deleted]

-6 | 4 hours ago

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DukeOfStuff_ | Timberwolves

8 | 4 hours ago

Gobert is just as bad from the line, but a way better defender

[deleted]

-5 | 4 hours ago

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MG_MN | Timberwolves

5 | 4 hours ago

Thats just not true at all. Gobert has some of the best stats even when switching and having to guard the perimeter, people just watch the highlights of Luka hitting a 3 over him and go with the narrative

DukeOfStuff_ | Timberwolves

3 | 3 hours ago

Gobert isn’t a bad perimeter defender at all don’t believe everything online. If you really watched you’d notice Luka was shooting under 30% on ISOs against Rudy last playoffs

[deleted]

1 | 3 hours ago

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DukeOfStuff_ | Timberwolves

1 | 2 hours ago

He gets hunted about the same amount as Randle. He gets hunted because the other wolves are to good at defense not because he’s bad at all, he’s just easily above average at perimeter defense especially for a center.

DukeOfStuff_ | Timberwolves

1 | 4 hours ago

Gobert is just as bad from the line, but a way better defender

halfwaifhome

9 | 4 hours ago

Historically the way to win a championship is to have at least:

An All-NBA player, another All-star, and a [former or future] 6th MOY/ DPOY/All-star.

Salty_Minnesota | Timberwolves

16 | 4 hours ago

All-NBA: Ant ✅ All-Star (former/fringe): Randle ✅ 6MOTY: Naz ✅ Former DPOY/AS: Rudy ✅

So you’re saying we’re winning it all this year.. 😏

BlackMathNerd | 76ers

8 | 4 hours ago

Yall have made the last 2 west conference finals…

AnthaIon | Timberwolves

2 | 3 hours ago

Wolves can be a bunch of moody headcases but I actually love watching them. When they lock in and play good basketball they look like they’re having so much fun out there, I’d love for them to win one

GalactusAteMyPlanet

8 | 4 hours ago

A bunch of positive defenders around them instead of a bunch of cones and expecting Gobert to be the teams only defender.

Professional_Hour445

7 | 4 hours ago

“…a bunch of cones and expecting Gobert to be the teams only defender”

Sounds like something straight out of the Rob Pelinka GM playbook

Paralta | MIA

7 | 4 hours ago

Lmao well one of them is significantly easier to build around

PuzzleheadedPrint623

5 | 4 hours ago

Surround them with a couple of 3D wings, somebody like OG and Mikal for instance. Then an offensive PG, I’m thinking of a Brunson type. Then another big guy that can space the floor, somebody like KAT. Yup, I think that could be a good start.

ilikelxdefightme | Spurs

1 | 4 hours ago

A combo guard playmaker and 3 shooters.

BantamCats | LAL

1 | 4 hours ago

You want players that accept their clearly defined roles, and a pair of stairs with chips on their shoulders. Redundancy is not a weakness.

BlackMathNerd | 76ers

1 | 4 hours ago

Shooting and switchable wings who are beasts on defense and at least league average shooting and at least 1-2 dudes that can get their own shot at any point

Icy_Information_6563

1 | 4 hours ago

The issue with non-offensive centers is that they clog up the paint. Rim protectors can cheat off of gobert and Robinson quite a bit because they arent guys that are going to punish you for that.

The warriors are the closest example to this working in modern basketball, but its really not a good example at all. Javale McGee was a great rim runner. And the other years they played small and had Looney and Pachulia play bench minutes.

There’s really no example of this working at the highest level. Like, Ant is one of the greatest drivers in the league and Gobert makes his job harder.

NotWD | Raptors

1 | 3 hours ago

2019 Marc Gasol was close in that he was at the point in his career where he wasn’t too much of an offensive threat anymore, but even he commanded a modicum of respect from three and could make them well enough to warrant it.

nobody1568

2 | 3 hours ago

A 25 ORB% is an offensive quality. A pretty valuable one no less.

probablymade_thatup | Bucks [MIL] Luke Kornet

1 | 3 hours ago

You need a PnR guard who can utilize them as screeners and spoon feed them some offense because neither of them are creators. Then they are two of the best rim protectors and interior presences in the league, but you can’t make them your whole defense. Keeping them in a drop is most effective for their skill sets, so if your other guys can switch reasonably okay, you can maximize the paint protection. Ideally, all 4 of the other guys on the floor are spacers to keep things as open as possible on offense.

Fitting under the cap with Rudy is slightly challenging, but a team like Maxey/Nembhard/Trey Murphy/OG/Rudy could be really good (although I worry about having enough wing creation) and still be $30M under the tax to fill out the other 10 roster spots.

Mitch only makes $13M, so you get a lot of flexibility. Kyrie/Derrick White/Andrew Wiggins/Chet/Mitch would be very strong defensively, and even figuring it out using Chet's big upcoming extension, it leaves you with $40M before going into the tax.

Edit: Putting JJJ next to Mitch (or Rudy to a lesser extent) would be interesting too. Mitch is one of the top 3 rebounders in the league, and JJJ is better as a help defender than the primary rim protector. Jrue/Grimes/Jaden McDaniels/JJJ/Mitch is my bizarro lineup for that one (I’m trying to not reuse players in lineups)

Stankapotamuses

1 | 2 hours ago

Mitch’s lack of offensive repertoire is balanced out by his uncanny offensive rebounding skillset. He doesn’t need to be the guy putting it in the bucket if the Knicks can collectively take 3 shots per offensive possession. If only he could shoot free throws…guy would be dominant.

tangential_quip | Lakers

1 | an hour ago

Whose cap number am I using? Because not giving Rudy 40 million a year would have been a good start.

JoelWalkowski

1 | 27 minutes ago

Replace Tyson Chandler w them on the 2011 Mavs.

Schubert142 | Bucks

1 | 12 minutes ago

The 2021 Jazz team, replace Bojan Bogdanovic with 2024 Tatum should do it.

DraymonBlackfyre | Warriors

1 | 5 hours ago

Put Gobert on the 2015 Warriors we beat LeFraud ez

rumblegod | Thunder

0 | 5 hours ago

10 lobs a game for Rudy no discussions. Rudy with an actual playmaker like a CP3 is top 20 all time lol.

Associ8tedRuffians | Timberwolves

4 | 4 hours ago

You’re asking Rudy’s big dumb hands will actually catch the ball, which does not happen as easily as one would imagine.

I think his FG%/eFG%/TS% are all high because they count when he drops/.misses the ball before even attempting the dunk/layup.

Several_Hour_347

2 | 4 hours ago

Weird to watch a Timberwolves fan flame Gobert when him being on the team helped them out of irrelevance for so many years

Associ8tedRuffians | Timberwolves

2 | 4 hours ago

I mean, what, we can’t criticize our own players? I didn’t say the man sucked, but that person’s vision doesn’t match the reality.

Watching Rudy every game for 4 years, you start to notice his actual flaws, and not just the ones imagined by the press and league wide fans. His lack of offensive bag gets him pulled situationally, and that can hurt the team. He drops passes, but he also saves our ass a lot. It’s just really noticeable when he can’t out it together.

Naz can’t play defense against centers, it feels like DDV pulls the trigger on transition 3s and every one always misses. Ant will take some defensive plays off, and sometimes becomes a black hole on offense (but admittedly, he’s the only player on the team that should be allowed to do that), to the detriment of open looks. KAT used to get in stupid foul trouble despite being practically an automatic bucket. Randle’s gonna Randle, and sometimes that saves your ass and sometimes it dooms it.

The person with most effect in bringing us back to relevance is Ant, and there’s a shit load of legitimate on and off court criticisms one can level at him.

We don’t have to worship these guys. And Rudy’s a “do your own research” knucklehead who drops passes/lobs.

GarriganGate | Raptors

-2 | 4 hours ago

Buddy does not watch games.

Gobert is not even close to an elite lob threat, your comment is baseless.

superfoodtown

-2 | 5 hours ago

I would much rather have mitch given the financial flexibility.

Icy-Seaworthiness270

-2 | 5 hours ago

I’d just tank and trade them away for assets. You can’t build around them.

ManInShowerNumber3 | Pistons

-4 | 5 hours ago

I’d take Gobert and trade him for some players and 4 1st round picks

MrFishAndLoaves | Pelicans

3 | 5 hours ago

Ahh yes that worked marvelously

If you were tasked with winning a championship with a starting center like Gobert or Mitchell Robinson, how would you build the team around them?