Zigxy | Pacers Bandwagon

5942 | 5 hours ago

Honestly surprised you didn’t mention tanking

It was a problem before and it is an insult to have teams and coaches trying to lose

Kdog122025 | Warriors

1665 | 5 hours ago

Or reffing. I respect for OP for digging past the two big ones.

AndrewHainesArt | PHI

434 | 5 hours ago

I lean towards reffing always being skewed by gambling and star/franchise power. That’s not even a new one.

What I am the most mad at with the tanking stuff is when he was still early in his tenure, his bum ass directly stepped in to fire and replace the Sixers GM on the principle of tanking when they never sat starters or did this blatant shit that’s going on now, they just had bad players. Colangelo was so detrimental to the org that it’s an issue they’re just digging out of in the last couple of seasons, all while letting Presti do the exact same thing, and letting all the other blatant tanking go on no problem.

Successful-Candy8421 | 76ers

154 | 4 hours ago

Trading away your good players is completely different than sitting healthy players on your roster. The latter is 1000x worse.

CRUSTBUSTICUS | 76ers

68 | 4 hours ago

One is tearing it down which happens in almost every US sport. Hell, the jets just traded anyone worth anything even though they suck. The other is circumventing the draft system and rigging games which is….. straight up cheating. Somehow people will still say what the Sixers did is worse somehow lmao.

gjarlis

28 | 3 hours ago

Trading away Michael Carter-Williams and K.J. McDaniels was considered egregious tanking lol

Dr_Mccusk

51 | 4 hours ago

Silver absolutely decimated a very legal and well done process of collecting assets and still losing. Like you said, not even benching guys, just a bad team. And then they hired colangelos dad first WHICH IS MORE INSANE. THEY FORCED HIM IN. He gets hinkie to quit. They hire his son. That’s so fucking insane but no one even mentions it cause they hated the sixers tanking. Colangelo, IMO, did it on purpose directed by the league.

Booplympics | 76ers

15 | 3 hours ago

Also as a fan during the process it was fun to see diamonds in the rough blossom. Dudes like RoCo and Jerami Grant who might not have had a chance otherwise.

Dazzling-Slide8288

46 | 5 hours ago

Reffing isn’t skewed by gambling. It’s just an incredibly difficult sport to officiate and mistakes can be attributed to a combo of incompetence and genuine mistakes.

The Sixers getting punished because they were better at tanking than other teams is an all time nba fuckup though. They weren’t worse. They were just first.

rarestakesando | Warriors

61 | 4 hours ago

Bro Refs got caught fixing games and only one ended up being a scapegoat. Almost 0 repercussions for that.

If some players and refs are getting caught imagine how many get away with it.

The tail end of the rant should be highlighted more as well. Having to navigate through multiple streaming sources to watch games is a huge slap in the face to the fan base. And then Adam Silver has the gaul to say we can just watch highlights then.

On top of all of this they are talking about expanding the NBA into Europe. not to mention the most recent news that they want a team in Vegas as if that won’t amplify the gambling fixing problem.

We desperately need a new commissioner and to come in here and clean house.

the-g-off | Toronto Huskies

34 | 4 hours ago

Got your head pretty far in the sand, there, man.

NBA under Stern swept the entire FBI investigation under the rug.

This has been an issue since at least Donaghy, and realistically, much further back than that.

It’s still going on. No one has admitted it officially, but there is overwhelming visual evidence in front of us every game.

The league is fucked.

Critback | Trail Blazers

9 | 4 hours ago

Spot on. Stern was fortunate that he was able to do a lot of his shenanigans under the cover of darkness. I can’t imagine how much worse it would have been for him had the age of the internet been at the level it is now and social media so prominent. Investigations so much easier to carry out than what they were when be was running things.

Atupis

28 | 4 hours ago

Just watch euroleague talent is worse but reffing is so much better that it is almost different sport.

yeahright17 | Thunder

13 | 3 hours ago

I do watch the euroleage, and the reffing is not better. Often it’s easier to make calls because the play is slower, but Euroleage refs aren’t any better than NBA refs.

big_axolotl | San Diego Clippers

25 | 4 hours ago

They weren’t the first, teams have been tanking ever since losing was rewarded with picks. Their biggest sin was breaking keyfab and admitting that it was their plan. They didnt use losing as a by product of austerity and inexperienced, Sam Hinkie was open about the plan to collect as many picks as possible through losing. They didnt even, draft “for fit” but rather for capital.

CRUSTBUSTICUS | 76ers

9 | 4 hours ago

If by talking in vague metaphors and saying “all good teams were once bad teams” / “winning isn’t linear” / “trust the process of drafting and evaluating talent while we gain value from our current players” type of vague statements is admitting to trying to trying to lose games to the point of severe punishment then current tanking deserves teams to be straight up relegated because they’re being just as obvious and more egregious with their decisions to lose games lol.

Those aren’t direct quotes obviously but Hinkie was careful when he talked about why the team was bad or trading away players. Go back and read his interviews and tell me it’s as blatant as people today seem to think it was. Also, he had to make PR statements for fans about why the team sucked so saying it’s to get better soon is the obvious choice lol.

Hydrophobic_Stapler | Raptors

32 | 4 hours ago

Tanking has always been a thing. The Sixers didn’t get in trouble for tanking, they got in trouble for saying the quiet part out loud

badhombre13 | Thunder

31 | 4 hours ago

“Trust the Process” is a wild way of admitting to your fans you’re tanking.

831loc | San Francisco Warriors

44 | 4 hours ago

The Nets owner said the team was “playing for draft position” this year. Thats the same thing. Then you have whatever the fuck the Jazz have been doing for years now.

NikNaksch | Raptors

13 | 3 hours ago

I looked up Lauri Markkanen stats the other week and at first thought “oh man he’s struggled to stay healthy with so many games missed the last few years”. But no, it’s just the team saying “hey can you just not play?”, which is pretty wild to me. Like I can understand a player accepting millions to just sit around but also I feel like I would want to play the sport I presumably like/love if able? Either way hard to see how that’s kosher

DubbleDiller

93 | 5 hours ago

Or the Grizzlies owner selling comms hardware to Russia

driatic | Wizards

47 | 4 hours ago

I belive that scandal falls under treason.

DoobieGibson

11 | 3 hours ago

The Grizzlies may have committed some light treason

Shou-K

14 | 4 hours ago

Brother the fan favourites of the league personally fund drones that murder Palestinians. An unbelievable amount of the league has no morals to stand on

jspeed04

84 | 4 hours ago

If I can also add - the rule changes for what is - or probably better stated is NOT - considered a violation:

Incessant travels
Mind numbing carrying/palming violations
Incomprehensible gather steps
Absurd moving screens

I sound like an old man, and I kinda am, lol, but, dude, I don’t even recognize the game anymore with what is not only being allowed, but seemingly encouraged by the league. If you go back and watch games from like 12 years ago, guys not named KD (who has always been a serial carry-er, sorry OKC fans) always had palm on top of, or at most, on the side of the ball. Nowadays, guys like Giannis, Ja Morant, LaMelo, KD, Luka, Shai, Keyonte George, and so many others, get away with what are very obviously carries or palming the ball.

Step backs? Alcoholics Anonymous has fewer steps involved. Gathering to take the ball to the hoop? book an all expenses paid vacation from Milwaukee to the Eurozone. And this is fine because scoring is high? Meanwhile, defenses can barely play on the other side of the ball despite having to cover a ton of ground to legally contest a shot.

Go to any park or gym where there’s an open run, go watch your local HS or college team, or watch international ball, and you’ll barely see any of the shit that we see in the NBA because these people know the rules, and also aren’t incentivized or influenced by guys hitting their overs that you just turn a blind eye to blatant rule violations.

I see a lot of parallels between Adam Silver and Tim Cook in their management of the brands of their respective products.

Gagabubu777

20 | 3 hours ago

AA having fewer steps is downright hilarious

Large_banana_hammock

12 | 5 hours ago

Those are the ones that have always been there, so this post does a good job of highlighting why THIS SEASON is particularly heinous

latman | Nets

260 | 5 hours ago

Yeah it’s an absolute joke that a third of the league wants to lose games. It’s a broken system

Dazzling-Slide8288

270 | 5 hours ago

It’s the league’s fault. There is no path to winning without a superstar, and superstars will only go to like 7 teams.

OKC is as good as they are now because of tanking.

billcosbyinspace | Celtics

90 | 4 hours ago

The flattened lottery odds have only made it worse I feel like. The past few years the wizards for example have tried to rebuild the right way and kept getting screwed in the lottery, with the only time they got lucky being the worst draft in a decade. As a result this year they’re egregiously tanking by acquiring like 80 million in salary of guys who are out the rest of the year and will join the team next season

Froqwasket | Wizards

75 | 4 hours ago

Honestly what else are we supposed to do. People think we should just be a 20-30 win team forever. Being a Wizards fan fucking sucks and the prospect of finally getting a good draft pick has made people excited for the first time since we got John Wall over a decade ago

zippy_the_cat | Lakers

29 | 4 hours ago

People think we should just be a 20-30 win team forever.

Horse hockey. The issue people have with tanking is there are many voices, in and around the league, who believe there’s no point to being a 50-win team that gets bounced in the 2nd round. In other words, if you’re not a full-on title contender, you should break it up and wait until a generational star drops into your lap.

That’s bullshit of course, and fans should not put up with it.

ImWicked39 | Grizzlies

12 | 4 hours ago

This is essentially what the Grizzlies front office is selling us at the moment.

It honestly fucking sucks to be rebuilding again after ~3 seasons.

Gristle__McThornbody | Lakers

9 | 4 hours ago

I agree with you. Your team looks like it’s finally ready to turn the corner, and this draft pick could be a major boost for years to come. I honestly don’t have an issue with fans of teams like the Wizards, Jazz, etc. wanting to tank. People tend to forget the other side of tanking especially the perspective of the fans who’ve been stuck watching those teams struggle.

folded_horizon

10 | 4 hours ago

The Mid 3 years (Beal, Porzingis, Kuzma) are more or less what a team is supposed to do. The flattened odds are supposed to mean those teams have a more equal chance of landing talent. But the Wizards havr either stayed at the same place in the lottery or have moved back every year since drafting Otto Porter in like 2013.

driatic | Wizards

10 | 4 hours ago

Yea and wizards fans will be the first to tell you that if the draft is rigged, it’s also rigged to punish us for tanking. To teach others the lesson that tanking doesnt have rewards.

SarcasticHour

8 | 4 hours ago

Not to mention the lottery itself is rigged.

PassionV0id

59 | 4 hours ago

and superstars will only go to like 7 teams

While this is a league issue…

There is no path to winning without a superstar

I hate to say it but this is an issue with the sport of basketball.

WhiteHeterosexualGuy | Hawks

22 | 4 hours ago

I hate to say it but this is an issue with the sport of basketball.

Not really. It’s the way NBA officiates players differently more so than anything else.

GeorgeHarris419 | Bucks

10 | 3 hours ago

lol what

No, it’s absolutely a fundamental issue with the sport. Extremely bizarre thing to just make up.

Constant_Chip_1508 | Bulls

11 | 4 hours ago

Getting rid of the max should help this

Head_of_Lettuce

18 | 4 hours ago

Would it? Are we keep the salary cap in this hypothetical? Because I see two outcomes:

If you keep the cap: Teams won’t be able to field a competitive roster because they have to give 80% of the cap to one guy
If you get rid of the cap: Big market teams will be able to outbid other teams for the best players

TheSorceIsFrong

14 | 3 hours ago

Getting rid of the cap would be awful. Theres a reason you only see like 3-5 MLB teams mentioned ever.

iDEN1ED | Celtics

17 | 4 hours ago

If you can’t field a competitive team because a guy is too expensive then you don’t pay him. That seems pretty simple. He’s obviously not worth that much then and if someone else wants to tank their team for a star then let them.

snakebit1995 | NBA

12 | 2 hours ago

The counter to your point is teams who will not be able to pay to ever get or keep a star.

Look at MLB, there are teams that legitimately cannot compete on a financial level with the Dodgers, it’s not that those teams are being cheap but the Dodgers are simply able to overpay to such a degree that other teams would be bankrupt trying to competitively bid on these free agents

suarezj9 | Rockets

41 | 5 hours ago

Yeah when it works then teams are obviously gonna tank

GrandioseFelonious

19 | 4 hours ago

I basically agree with the sentiment of the OP’s post, but…. OKC is where they are because they traded for SGA. Bucks drafted Giannis late. Denver drafted Jokic later. Sixers tanked and never won anything. Knicks (big market team) haven’t won in forever. Celtics are where they are because Ainge did something unconventional (at the time) and pivoted hard on an aging roster to land Tatum and Brown in the draft. Even Jalen Williams was drafted 12th overall and lots of analysts said that was a reach when it happened.

JudasBC | Suns

9 | 4 hours ago

Even then they tanked for what, two seasons, and that was after they had tried to rebuild a contender when KD left in free agency, and then stayed competitive the season when George was traded to the Clippers, no franchise was turning down that package and because the writing was on the wall for their window sent Russ to the Rockets. They turned this into a boatload of picks but they only had 1 top 5 pick in those years, for a guy who missed their rookie season through injury.

They often get brought up when people talk about tanking but I find them far less egregious than whatever the hell the Jazz and Wizards have been doing the last 4 years.

vexxes | WAS

7 | 4 hours ago

Number 1 teams in both conferences tanked. It’s funny to me how this season it’s getting so much attention

browndude10 | United States

7 | 4 hours ago

okc also took that team from seattle and started with kd and all of them

kamiller2020 | Hawks

27 | 5 hours ago

It’s the most stacked draft class in years and some of these teams have draft pick protections as well. Unless the rules of basketball are changed, teams are going to do whatever possible to get the best pick.

latman | Nets

21 | 5 hours ago

Of course, I’m blaming the system not the teams. They absolutely need to solve this problem though. It sucks ass that stars are sitting out games and fans have to root for their team to lose. Something has to be done

kamiller2020 | Hawks

11 | 4 hours ago

I don’t really think there’s a way to solve the problem that doesn’t do more harm than good. You wouldn’t need to change the nba to solve the problems of basketball, you’d need to change the fundamental rules of the sport to limit how much impact one person can have in the game. If you don’t have a superstar you can win all the regular season games in the world but the chances you actually win a title are 1%, and the top of draft is the most accessible way to get one of those guys.

Besides, if teams weren’t going all out tanking would people really go watch the games or tune into these teams anyways? Sure, you’d see a higher increase in basketball. But the pelicans aren’t tanking and their near the bottom of attendance because their terrible. The grizzlies haven’t started the tank yet, they were trying to win, and nobody showed up to see JJj and Ja because the team stunk. The tickets for bad teams are already dirt cheap. I don’t think tanking is just that big of an issue in a sport where it’s a necessity

EwwYourFartsSmell

74 | 5 hours ago

Kings are an exception, we are just all around ass. So you can take us out of that equation. We aren’t tanking on purpose. We just don’t have an NBA level roster at the moment lol

scullytaco

62 | 5 hours ago

Russ in crunch time will absolutely never give up, but he will also cost you the game. Ultimate tank commander.

Roach_Coach_Bangbus | Kings

26 | 4 hours ago

Ethical, free-range tanking.

nbawizard1227

20 | 5 hours ago

The kings have my respect they are tanking the right way. Just get a bunch of old washed players and refuse to play your young talent. Now that’s basketball at its finest.

flip0213

18 | 4 hours ago

Tanking the right way? Every team should have a Vivek as an owner if that’s the right way to tank lol.

Mr_Cromer | Raptors

8 | 5 hours ago

Ethical tanking

Maleficent_Tree_8282

63 | 5 hours ago

I truthfully haven’t been following very much this year, but did I see something where the Jazz sat their starters the 4th quarter and Magic came back? Like wtf?

-ToPimpAButterfree-

48 | 5 hours ago

An absolute insult to any fan that paid to see the game it was blatant tanking

mojoninjaaction

14 | 4 hours ago

And it was JJJ’s debut with team.

Nervous_Box_3495 | Jazz

11 | 4 hours ago

for what its worth it sounds like everyone actually at the game had a good time lol. always fun for the home team to have a comeback win

obeyer10 | Lakers

35 | 5 hours ago

The way the Jazz tanked the other day against the Magic (I think it was them) should’ve been fined by the league

Sw3atyGoalz | Lakers

9 | 4 hours ago

They did it against the Hawks too.

JustGottaKeepTrying

24 | 5 hours ago

Listen, the Jazz had a very hard mountain walk for only the starters. They were all too tired to play more than 3 quarters. This is not tanking, just basic respect for their bodies. /s just in case.

chonky_tortoise | Kings

27 | 5 hours ago

The existence of the draft means teams will always tank. It just doesn’t make any sense to win a meaningless game in March when it could directly lose your franchise an all-NBA talent. The play in is doing its job incentivizing less teams to tank, but there will always be some.

Froqwasket | Wizards

9 | 4 hours ago

Fucking thank you. People here can bitch and moan and demand that we pointlessly go all out to beat Michael Porter Jr. all they want, the answer is always gonna be no, sorry redditors that definitely totally would’ve watched a wizards game if we weren’t tanking

SlayTalon | Hawks

17 | 5 hours ago

Yes please punish all tanking teams, and do not punish teams who suck and just can’t win (like the Pelicans)

PetalumaPegleg | 76ers

12 | 5 hours ago

Sorry the only team they’ve ever punished is the one that didn’t try to lose so much as try to play young players looking for hidden diamonds rather than pay washed vets to win an extra 3 games a year.

suarezj9 | Rockets

18 | 5 hours ago

Tanking is what’s killing the game for me. Having so many teams trying to lose just ruins it

Froqwasket | Wizards

10 | 4 hours ago

Bro acts like he’d be watching wizards games if we weren’t tanking lmao

NOLA-Bronco | Pelicans

17 | 4 hours ago

I agree

That is why I think it is ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL upon Adam Silver to set an example THIS upcoming draft.

We ALL need to collectively come together and tell Adam Silver that for the future of the league’s competitive health, tanking needs to NOT be rewarded.

So I submit to you the ONLY possible fix that can truly set a new precedent and reverse this league-killing trend.

My team, led by one of the great FO minds of all time, has demonstrated the RIGHT WAY to run a franchise.

He took the moral hazard of tanking seriously and gave away our first round draft picks even before the season was over.

That is COURAGE.

That is the RIGHT WAY

And Adam Silver now needs to recognize this moral and altruistic sacrifice and set an example for the rest of the league

And so as a league wide correction we ALL need to come together as citizens of the NBA and DEMAND that the Pelicans get BOTH their picks back and that they are automatically given picks 1 AND 2 in this draft.

It is the only way to stave off this terrible trend.

To save the league we MUST give my Pelicans their picks back and make sure they win the lottery.

That is the ONLY way we can send a loud enough message to these disgusting tanking teams.

Phallicsander | Bucks

10 | 4 hours ago

Having lived through the post-Ray Allen Bucks, I can tell you that not tanking sucks when everyone else is doing it. The worst place for a team is being mid. You’ll never get a meaningful draft pick, and you’ll never have anything to show for it. Tanking needs to be disincentivized for this league to be watchable.

Jmoney1088

8 | 5 hours ago

Hey let us tank in peace over here!

hearduare

1492 | 5 hours ago

How isn’t one of the major points the number of streaming services you need to watch games now it’s fucking stupid as can be

thurstkiller | Jazz

349 | 4 hours ago

Interesting, my site has all the games 🏴‍☠️

Putrid-Box4866 | Bulls

130 | 4 hours ago

Yeah but they either buffer too much, stop mid way, so many ads and probably malware, etc. we should just be able to subscribe to league pass and watch everything. Instead, I have to watch some games on sketchy sites because of blackouts.

Edit: To those saying they are perfect, you guys are lying. I grew up broke so I was pirating everything from music to games, so I know my way around pirating / ad blockers etc. But I am at the point of my life that I am doing better so I just wanted the convenience. And the few times I tried to pirate because of blackouts, 60% of the time I couldn’t even finish watching because they just stopped working. I don’t need that unreliability in my life anymore now that I can only watch a few hours a week and I want the best experience possible.

wiconv

63 | 4 hours ago

I swear lol people who claim pirate streams are an acceptable way to consistently watch the games are just full of cope. There’s not one site that doesn’t have the issues you’ve described consistently.

SylvesterLundgren

39 | 4 hours ago

I have watched multiple games a night, 4-5 nights a week, exclusively through streaming sites you can just find on google. Very common ones that I have seen been thrown around on this sub multiple times.

1 in 5 games there might be a buffer signal, I just pause and unpause, if that doesn’t work the first time I just switch the server and ⁹⁹⁄₁₀₀ it fixes the issue. The amount of streams I’ve had just blow up have been less than three in the last few seasons. I even throw them up on my firetv through the web browser and RARELY have an issue.

I watch through these sites WHILE HAVING ACCESS to the official streams via cable subscription because it is a better experience, full stop. NBC sports presentation/player is DOG SHIT. I had more stutters, UI bugs, etc. with their stream than any pirate stream I’ve used in the last two years. Better quality too, they are forced 1080p while NBC sports buffers automatically down to 480p. I have great internet, there should never be a situation where that happens.

I do have prime as well and watch on their platform when available, and have been EXTREMELY happy with the quality. Extremely crisp, zero stutters no matter what I play it on, no UI issues.

11b328i | MIL

9 | 3 hours ago

It’s too much work for them to find or use decent streams. They probably get all Their sites form boomer friends or facebook groups and just can’t fathom what an ad blocker is

YourBarelyWetSock | Lakers

17 | 4 hours ago

Lmao yes there is. You’re just bad at finding them. Never once paid for an NBA game and my streams dont buffer, dont have crazy popups, and have never given me malware

Literally my only complaint is sometimes they are 30 seconds to a minute behind.

Current_Anybody4352 | Spain

12 | 4 hours ago

there isn’t one, there are many. i’ve been watching the nba like this for almost 20 years at this point.

i_lack_imagination

10 | 3 hours ago

I’m sure there are some, but many of the better ones are exclusive and people don’t want to share them because it makes them a bigger target if they get too popular. However, anyone bragging about how their site is perfect while also partaking in the exclusion of sharing it is a total douchebag.

petripeeduhpedro | Hawks

9 | 4 hours ago

I never have issues with my IPTV

fradaaaa

40 | 4 hours ago

This guy doesn’t know the good sites 😂

thickjamaicanuncle

22 | 3 hours ago

Or any ad blockers

Rammstonna | Vancouver Grizzlies

29 | 3 hours ago

Im from Europe so we have everything on league pass, I naturally thought it was the same in the US. Damn was I wrong, it’s just a joke

SaltyLonghorn | Rockets

20 | 3 hours ago

You wanna hear some more stupid shit from the US? I don’t blame you if you don’t.

When we order league pass they blackout the regional teams near us. For example I’m in Austin, Texas and I don’t get the Astros unless I switch cable carriers to a carrier that does not actually service my street. So if I order the MLB Pass I don’t get to see their games and my only option is piracy. Well my only option to watch. I went with never watching baseball again besides clinching games in the playoffs.

Everything and I mean everything just keeps getting further enshittified.

thurstkiller | Jazz

7 | 4 hours ago

There was an era of that being the case, but that hasn’t been my experience for probably a few years.

my_twin_towne

255 | 4 hours ago

Because OP addressed this as a joke season, streaming fragmentation is annoying but it doesn’t make a season a quality one or a poor one.

Real factors that do:

Blatant tanking that goes unpunished and is a major disservice to fans that commonly plan months out to see stars
Players investing in platforms that incentive performance betting when they themselves influence those outcomes
Having zero teeth on punishing the ever increasing rate of players flopping

These 3 items are weakening the product immensely.

LiveLaughFap

22 | 4 hours ago

Bro you only need like 5 different subscriptions to watch the Lakers what’s the problem

Ok-Worldliness9109

16 | 4 hours ago

Ya it’s stupid. All the reasons OP gave are true. Sports are becoming trashy now… we can barely afford groceries and yet these organizations are doing everything they can to squeeze us more. Sports should be sacred.

darren_meier

7 | 4 hours ago

I actually kinda like the current system. Sure, you’d need a shitload of services to watch everything, but almost nobody fits in that boat. The average NBA fan will watch some games if they’re easily accessible on whatever service they have, and that’s why viewership is way up this season. If you have just Amazon Prime (which almost everyone already has), you get games on Fridays, the NBA Cup semis/finals, some random Sundays and now you get Thursdays as well once the NFL Thursday games finished. And if you have NBC on basic TV you have Tuesdays, or if you have Peacock you get Mondays and Tuesdays. If you have access to ABC you have… Wednesdays, I think?

The amount of basketball I’m able to watch for a pretty low price (I personally do Peacock and Prime Video so that’s three-four nights of basketball per week, which is honestly as much as I have time for… is honestly kinda rad?

cricket9818 | Knicks

1407 | 5 hours ago

All this ranting and you don’t even address the biggest actual issue (aside from the gambling stuff); the still incessant and obvious tanking

pmurt007 | Lakers

233 | 5 hours ago

Tanking has existed for years and is more blatant and prevalent in years where it’s a loaded draft class or there’s a “can’t miss” prospect (ex. Wemby). No one had any issues the year people were tanking for Wemby and they actually clowned on the Jazz for not tanking better that year.

At the end of the day some teams this year are incentivized to tank or they’ll lose their picks (Pacers and Jazz) and the other teams (Kings, Wizards, Nets) are trying to rebuild through the draft because they can rarely obtain elite talent through the trade deadline or free agency. Combine that with this year’s draft being loaded with talent it makes sense why teams are tanking so hard

Darkblade511 | Wizards

45 | 4 hours ago

Wizards apply to both

DM_ME_UR_SOUL | Lakers

7 | 3 hours ago

Tanking has just become a part of the game at this point. It’s normalized so people are saying why arent they tanking.

thetangible | Pistons

73 | 5 hours ago

Luka’s defense?

StrikeElectrical9400 | Nuggets

33 | 5 hours ago

Yea the biggest problem with today’s NBA is Luka’s Defence. The league would become 10000000x time more watchable if Luka played defence. Starving kids would be fed if Luka played defence. World peace would be ushered if Luka played defence. The nba is bad product cause Luka doesnt play defence. the current geopolitical situation is because Luka doesnt play defence

thetangible | Pistons

10 | 5 hours ago

Sounds like you get it.

Victor_Wembanyama1 | Spurs

23 | 5 hours ago

Luka is indeed built like a tank >!/s!<

mayorlittlefinger

60 | 5 hours ago

There is no solution to tanking except relegation imo and that isn’t going to happen. If we have a draft and want worse teams to have a better chance to get better instead of everyone having an equal shot, then teams will tank unless heavily incentivized not to by dropping leagues

_Parkertron_ | San Diego Clippers

38 | 4 hours ago

Its also just the nature of the sport. Football players careers are short and the sport is more violent, so those on bad teams will still play hard to maximize the contracts they can get. But there’s a lot less turnover in rosters in the nba and players have longer careers

mayorlittlefinger

16 | 4 hours ago

And generally the players are still playing hard. Watch a Pacers game and they are trying their best. It’s the team making sit start choices

Ferromagneticfluid | Kings

16 | 4 hours ago

I am not really sure what the fix is. But they seemed to have made it worse with the new CBA.

Bad teams should get the best pick in order to make them better. That is common sense. But how do you determine bad other than record?

My team, the Kings, is genuinely bad. They did not do any tanking moves until a couple games ago. They were actually trying to win every game until the end of January. But we have to now compete for the top pick with blatantly losing teams like the Jazz.

DjToastyTy | Pacers

6 | 4 hours ago

what is the solution though? the lottery was supposed to curb tanking and it just made things worse, or at least more noticeable

TextIndependent8947

15 | 4 hours ago

Even out the lottery odds. Increase odds based on total years without a high pick.

C0nstruct37 | Spurs

8 | 4 hours ago

This could work. Similarly could get worse odds if you get a high pick and are still in the lottery for consecutive years.

thenicezen | Bucks

505 | 5 hours ago

RE: CBA — since when has the casual fan cared about the CBA lol. Most casual fans just watch and follow certain players. Knowing what the CBA is already makes you more than a casual fan lmao

wooltab

163 | 5 hours ago

Yeah, same thought. This part:

CBA - the new CBA has basically ruined basketball for casual fans. People are sick of hearing about it.

…doesn’t track for me. Casual fans aren’t thinking about the CBA, and aren’t likely hearing about it enough to be particularly aware, much less sick.

ApprehensiveFruit565

42 | 4 hours ago

Been watching the NBA for 15 years and never for one second did I want to understand the salary cap system beyond the cap number. Even then the notion of soft/hard caps/aprons or whatever just turned me off. Here to watch basketball, don’t give a shit about the accounting behind it.

cranscape

33 | 4 hours ago

I get what you mean, but imagine being a casual and your favorite player got traded and when you try to figure out why it turns out it wasn’t because they weren’t wanted but because of something called “getting under the apron”. You’d probably think you got a concussion.

ReefLedger | Knicks

36 | 4 hours ago

Salary cap reasons existed long before the apron.

catkoala | Lakers

30 | 4 hours ago

imo the second apron stuff is a positive change not a negative one

kolbeyg

13 | 4 hours ago

Exactly, dynasties and big market teams are the only ones hurt by the new CBA.

Robinsonirish | Finland

18 | 4 hours ago

CBA - the new CBA has basically ruined basketball for casual fans. People are sick of hearing about it. Takes major effort to understand it. It’s way too restrictive and already has and will continue to gut homegrown teams.

CBA is awesome. We have more parity than ever before, thanks to this CBA. Fuck the Cold War nuclear arms race of the 2010s where you knew beforehand who’d be in the finals and the regular season was a forgone conclusion. I love the current CBA and Silver has done great things on that end, when

2-3 teams are contenders in any given season. When the next CBA rolls around they’ll dial it back a little bit so teams can have an easier time keeping home grown talent.

Everything else OP said agree with though. They could take 20% of their revenue and cut commercials by 50%, making the game watchable, but Jaylen Brown has to have his 300mil contract. The players are about as relatable as the owners were back in the 90s. They are squeezing every last dollar out of the league, even when they don’t need to and it hurts the game so much.

No-Owl-6246 | Lakers

16 | 5 hours ago

Casual fans don’t like parity. More casual fans know about it because the traditionally dominant franchises aren’t as dominant as they traditionally are. Casual fans love dynasties.

Excellent_Builder_79 | Nuggets

414 | 5 hours ago

Ehh, fire away on the rest, but the new CBA works as it should.

What you should be miffed about is blatant and obvious tanking.

No-Owl-6246 | Lakers

246 | 5 hours ago

The new CBA is why this parity in the NBA exists right now, and I love it. I know casuals love dynasties, and my teams has benefited from dynasties, but I love knowing multiple teams actually have a chance at winning a championship and how important the game has become outside of the superstar players.

peachesgp | Celtics

101 | 5 hours ago

At the same time I feel like teams being unable to keep teams they drafted together isn’t good for the sport.

RspectMyAuthoritah | Lakers

37 | 5 hours ago

Which team can’t keep their drafted core together?

Ordoblackwood

24 | 4 hours ago

Okc will not be able to in the future.

Comfortable-Map-5544

20 | 4 hours ago

Good

RspectMyAuthoritah | Lakers

18 | 4 hours ago

They can afford to keep their drafted core together like Chet, JDub, Dort, Wallace. SGA, Caruso, IHart were all outsiders that they brought in.

CheatedOnOnce | Raptors

14 | 4 hours ago

After seeing what Brad Steven’s has done to the Celtics I’m convinced if you have a smart GM the team will be fine

AsleepHour7763

10 | 3 hours ago

OKC cant afford to keep their drafted core of Chet, Jdub, Dort And a bunch of role-players? Out of the 4 most expensive player they have 3 were traded

darren_meier

15 | 4 hours ago

But what team has, so far, not been able to keep together a team they drafted? Like it’s this doomsday scenario, but all the teams that have had to make big moves to duck apron trouble (Boston, Cleveland, Phoenix) all had to do so because they had rosters built largely from big swing trades. Cleveland moved Garland, but for a guy that makes the same amount of money Garland does. Unless I’m missing someone?

up_in_trees | Lakers

18 | 5 hours ago

What team has drafted all of their talent only for the second apron to break them up?

iceberg_ape | Kings

11 | 4 hours ago

He probably means Celtics and okc, teams that drafted well but wouldn’t have gone all the way without guys like white, holiday, pingustingus, caruso, and hartenstien

ktm5141 | 76ers

11 | 4 hours ago

Aside from Dort, none of those guys were drafted by OKC/BOS

JotaPePe15 | Thunder

7 | 4 hours ago

OKC literally drafted JDub and Chet, traded for Shai when he was a rookie and signed Lu Dort who was undrafted. Other players turned out as phenomenal role players and even have star potential (AJ Mitchel, Cason Wallace, Aaron Wiggins) but sadly cannot keep them all together

voltron818 | Thunder

6 | 4 hours ago

It’s not even the second apron breaking up teams. It’s the repeater tax. They’re different things. Second apron relates moreso to the transaction limitations to prevent expensive teams from loading up on more talent. The tax that scares cheap owners out of spending (and therefore pissing off fans) is the thing fans actually hate. But it’s also why there’s more parity right now.

nativeindian12 | Trail Blazers

11 | 5 hours ago

NFL has this “problem” and seem to be doing quite well

PsychoM | Raptors

24 | 5 hours ago

My pet conspiracy theory is that the CBA is situated the way it is because it makes room for expansion. There’s currently too much talent in the league to put such a hard cap on salary, you’re going to have a lot of good players falling out of the league because teams are capped out.

Which sets the stage perfectly for expansion, expand the pool with the Second Apron making teams less incentivized to keep veterans, who don’t fit the timeline exactly, on large long term deals. Makes for a much spicier expansion draft and probably makes the incoming teams more competitive at inception.

Expansion announced at the end of this year, expansion draft happens in 2027 offseason, expansion teams enter in the 2028 season, CBA expires in 2030 so expansion teams have 2 years to take advantage of teams desperate to get off of “bad money”

LaMelonBallz | Hornets

9 | 4 hours ago

Thank you for being an honest and intelligent Lakers fan. Anyone who says this new CBA is ruining small teams doesn’t actually care about small teams. They are most likely Warriors and OKC fans.

We are just now seeing teams initial adjustments going through. Some teams are catching a tough break, but those are teams that have been stacked for years. The OKC are somewhat an exception, but even they went out and threw the bank at IHart. It’s fine to go all in, but you shouldn’t be allowed to do it forever.

I think the Celtics are a great example of how teams can navigate the second apron. As are the Cavs. Both are great examples that the CBA doesn’t drown teams, it just forces them to swim.

I saw someone complain that the trade deadline was ruined by the CBA and was gobsmacked. Most fun trade deadline in a minute. They claimed it kept big trades from happening, and that that’s what the fans love. I think they were mostly upset for the Clippers. And honestly, I can’t think of a better example of a team that has thrown money at every problem instead of actually building a good team. If the CBA was in place in the past, the Clippers would likely still have SGA.

snowdude11 | Trail Blazers

9 | 4 hours ago

The CBA went into effect in 2023 and in the 5 years prior to that, there were 5 different champions. Parity existed before this CBA.

Genji4Lyfe

33 | 5 hours ago

Yeah I was going to say, are we really complaining here about having increased competitiveness between teams? 😅

Look at last year’s playoffs and play-in race. That’s what things should look like, not knowing the obvious winners before things even start.

second_impression | Celtics

15 | 5 hours ago

I’m fine with the new CBA as a fan of a team which was gutted by the new CBA

DCoop53

8 | 4 hours ago

Exactly, good GMs will always find a way to navigate through any CBA, don’t blame the rules, blame the guys who can’t play with them. Also in relation to OP’s rant, not everything is due to Silver, the CBA is negociated between the players and owners.

HokageEzio | Knicks

319 | 5 hours ago

Basketball is a lot more fun when you just actually watch the games.

--mish | Suns

100 | 5 hours ago

Sure but it’s not fun when a ref makes a horrible call that could be game fixing, multiple stars sitting out, and then a 45 minute conclusion to the game because of fouling

Sircasticdad42

17 | 4 hours ago

What gets me is the constant flopping and foul baiting

MindofShadow | Pacers

69 | 5 hours ago

YUP.

I was literally at the orlando/utah game everyone on here is pissed about.

Crowd loved the game lol.

Just get on league pass, click a game that looks good and… I know this is weird around here… watch a freaking basketball game.

HokageEzio | Knicks

14 | 4 hours ago

Somebody a few days ago complained about how the ABC broadcast games this year have sucked because stars have sat out. Look at the scores and they were all 6 points or less and Flagg dropped 34 in one of them. Was pretty funny.

PlasticPresentation1

16 | 4 hours ago

Redditors live in a different world from reality I feel

Tanking sucks, gambling sucks, aprons suck, cap circumvention sucks, sure. But you can also just not watch Jazz games and not participate in betting. People who think the league is rigged for gambling are just people looking to complain about a certain outcome they don’t like.

Tuning in to an actual game is the same it’s always been

Lstark5642 | Thunder

42 | 5 hours ago

I know we all hate tanking but watching bad basketball teams is still fun if you just…..like basketball

HokageEzio | Knicks

22 | 5 hours ago

Even tanking teams typically have a few young players you’re invested in seeing develop. Baby Mitchell Robinson that didn’t know his ass from his elbow was like the saving grace of the 2019 Knicks (shouout to Mitch’s Block Party)

renal_speedwagon | Timberwolves

29 | 5 hours ago

i’ve never seen a sports fanbase that despises watching their own sport like NBA fans, especially this sub

dafdiego777 | Rockets

246 | 5 hours ago

Sir this is a Wendys

nbawizard1227

135 | 5 hours ago

Spicy nuggets are better than what I am witnessing Adam silver cook up.

juicejug | Celtics

37 | 5 hours ago

Spicy nuggets are pretty awesome so that’s not saying much.

bbuucckk | Lakers

17 | 5 hours ago

Wendy’s spicy nuggs are one of the most underrated fast food items out there. I like them with a cup of their chili

djan242

8 | 5 hours ago

Spicy Nuggets are a top 10 fast food item all time so not saying much honestly (if you put them top 5 I’m not complaining either)

Aaaaaaandyy | Knicks

176 | 5 hours ago

You don’t know what a casual fan is. They’d have no clue what you’re talking about.

emalevolent | Lakers

93 | 4 hours ago

OP is being accused of both being too hardcore a fan that doesn’t understand casuals and too casual a fan that doesn’t even watch games lol

this_my_sportsreddit | Warriors

23 | 4 hours ago

redditors swear that by being on reddit, they’re automatically some hardcore elite tier fan lol

PuzzleheadedClue9837 | Supersonics

12 | 4 hours ago

So you’re saying casual fans have no idea that Atlanta has the right to swap its 2031 2nd round pick for Houston’s 2031 2nd round pick protected for selections 56-60?

CarolinaRod06

171 | 5 hours ago

As far tanking some of you all have recency bias. Teams have done this for decades. The only difference is you now have a little device in your hand that tells you how many minutes a random player of the Jazz played on Wednesday night.

w_savage | Jazz

25 | 4 hours ago

plus the Jazz need to tank…we can only get good players to Utah through the draft. Also, do you want our pick to go to OKC?

MikeWrites002737 | Thunder

12 | 3 hours ago

Yes

GregEgg4President | Wizards

97 | 5 hours ago

All star weekend - I don’t even need to say anything.

You do. It hasn’t even happened yet.

TBH, the only real issue I have with what you brought up is gambling’s chokehold on sport and *vulnerable populations.

IPissExcellentThrows | 76ers

41 | 5 hours ago

You don’t have issue with the clippers cheating and nothing happening?

juicejug | Celtics

35 | 5 hours ago

“Nothing happening” is carrying a heavy load here because the “investigation” isn’t finished, and isn’t expected to be finished until later in the season.

Once the league says they’ve done their investigation and issue little-to-zero punishment then you can cry all you want.

GregEgg4President | Wizards

30 | 5 hours ago

I do, but I don’t have an issue with it not being resolved by the front office yet. The front office isn’t going to jump to penalties based on Pablo Torre’s reporting, it’s going to take a lot of time to unravel this and I understand it’s a lengthy process.

If it ends up ignored/swept under the rug, I’ll have an issue. But I’m not sure that’s the case YET.

And if I’m running any organization, I’m not commentating on investigations in flight, because it just leads to more questions and speculation. It’s bad business. Get the facts then adjudicate. Don’t adjudicate along the way.

steadysoul | Pelicans

13 | 4 hours ago

An investigation is happening. That’s not nothing.

AstonishinglyAverage

87 | 5 hours ago

Hmmm didn’t say a single thing about the game. Do you like basketball or just read articles about it?

zebrainatux | Knicks

24 | 4 hours ago

That imagines half this subreddit actually watches the game beyond the 15 minute highlight videos on YouTube

WhyAreYallFascists

87 | 5 hours ago

Hey Chauncey got fired for illegal poker and fraud, not sports gambling!!!

MarkoSeke | LAC

19 | 3 hours ago

Nope, he also tipped off that they would be sitting ~~Dame~~ multiple players for some game before it was announced.

MitchLGC

39 | 5 hours ago

I’ve been watching the basketball games.

They have been very good.

You are more concerned with off the court drama than basketball

Regular-Amoeba5455 | Pistons

40 | 5 hours ago

Idk man my Pistons are doing pretty good.

_Tar_Ar_Ais_

43 | 5 hours ago

I think superstars making up a good portion of the team’s salary cap will erode the league as time goes on

digital_deer | Spurs

35 | 5 hours ago

I mean if you’re adding made up conspiracy nonsense to get mad about like the Cooper lottery it sounds like you’re just looking to be angry

MJRuinedMyChildhood | Charlotte Bobcats

34 | 5 hours ago

The CBA impacts nobody but teams deep in the tax. Literally encourages more teams to spend more than ever before

HokageEzio | Knicks

27 | 5 hours ago

All of the casual fans I know are deeply put off by the CBA that they are definitely aware exists.

Bourbon_Buckeye

6 | 5 hours ago

I too hate what Adam Silver has done to the Canadian Basketball Association

AdministrativeBag703

21 | 5 hours ago

The CBA also encourages parity and responsible spending by team owners. It prevents or limits the formation of super-teams. Under this new CBA we’ve seen unprecedented success by small market teams. I think it’s fantastic for the league.

Direct_Swan2312

34 | 5 hours ago

Just enjoy the game of basketball

nbawizard1227

10 | 5 hours ago

I tried to go outside and enjoy the trees but aspiration didn’t plant any

Tabais123

30 | 5 hours ago

I have no problem with the CBA and salary cap. The problem is teams and players still paying people like there isn’t one. If the cap is 200M you can’t pay players 70M a year and expect to be able to build a team.

GMs are still learning the new reality. It was ugly the first few years of the NFLs cap. Teams will figure it out.

Why are so many people mad about the Kalshi thing? It’s an easily manipulated unregulated gimmick betting site. What do you expect to happen?

BigTuna3000 | NBA

10 | 5 hours ago

Markets take time to correct. The most successful teams right now are the ones who are adjusting fastest to the new CBA/cap rules

Johnpecan | Warriors

7 | 5 hours ago

Maybe it was mentioned somewhere else but the main point of the salary cap is working perfectly: Relative parity in the league. The last 7 NBA championships teams have been unique which is insane really.

Raptors Lakers Bucks Warriors Nuggets Celtics Thunder

Prestigious-Smoke511

5 | 5 hours ago

This is what I don’t get. If players can manipulate Lalshi markets, it doesn’t mean the league is fucked, it means Kalshi is a joke of a product and not worth participating with.

Skillomie | Lakers

11 | 4 hours ago

Well players manipulating betting markets that directly involve them kinda goes against the whole integrity of the sport lol

1850ChoochGator | Trail Blazers

5 | 4 hours ago

Contracts under the old CBA aren’t even cycled out yet lol.

erog84 | Suns

26 | 5 hours ago

That list is incomplete.

foulbaiting is at an all time peak. Not peak harden, but more players doing it consistently.
flopping. How many technicals or fines for all the crazy flopping we have seen… maybe 2 techs?
refs seem worse than ever but could be recency bias. Why do we not have a 4th or 5th ref to help with different angles.
review center is so slow. By the time the refs walk to the review screen the review center should already have seen the play from every angle.

loco_mixer

18 | 5 hours ago

You didnt even mention the worst thing… close games are rare af… constant blowouts

purplenyellowrose909 | Timberwolves

19 | 5 hours ago

Every game starts 0-0

Patient-Advisor-2352

6 | 5 hours ago

No games are close… it’s just the weird/random 4th quarter meltdowns by teams. They score 30 for 3 straight quarters and then out of no where, boom 12 points in the 4th, leading to a blowout

[deleted]

14 | 5 hours ago

[deleted]

ThxBenevenstanciano | Celtics

28 | 5 hours ago

Right why would anyone try to talk about the NBA on r/nba?

ijustwannalurksobye

10 | 5 hours ago

It’s r/nba, what, you expect people to be sharing pictures of their pets on here or something?

mynamejeff-97

6 | 5 hours ago

Why do people talk about their opinions on an online forum? Are you stupid?

twovles31

12 | 5 hours ago

Every day with this.

Servbot24 | Pacers

10 | 5 hours ago

Ngl I really don’t give a shit about gambling. I could get an ad about that or I could get an ad about some car or pill. Who cares, I tune it all out anyways.

Dopeez | Spurs

11 | 5 hours ago

Can reddit doomers just stfu and enjoy the games?

NoBonus6969

9 | 3 hours ago

It’s unwatchable. They run around holding the ball like a football taking 5 6 10 steps. Pickup the dribble re dribble. Like what are we watching man.

darren_meier

7 | 4 hours ago

I don’t agree with your premise. This NBA season has been awesome. We just had a pretty sick trade deadline with lots of movement. The season is almost overflowing with awesome stories– Embiid is back and playing better than we thought possible, Maxey is emerging, somehow Mazzulla has Boston playing like contenders in what was supposed to be a lost season, Ben Tenzer managed to resurrect the Nuggets from the disaster of the Calvin Booth era into one of the funnest rosters in the league, the Hornets are FUCKING AMAZING RIGHT NOW, Wemby is going off and doing Wemby things, Kawhi is somehow playing the best ball of his life, Detroit is ascending, and the new media package is actually making it easier to catch games. This is honestly one of the better seasons we’ve had in a long time.

What hometown team has been gutted by the CBA? Yeah, teams have had to make moves to get around the aprons, but that’s an asset management thing that takes skill. Boston did an incredible job of it, OKC has enough picks that they should be able to shed expensive contracts with young guys basically forever (and they’re hardly homegrown unless you’re reeeeeeaaaaally stretching the term), Cleveland was able to successfully get back in line to avoid penalties, Phoenix was able to get back in good shape (and got a hell of a coach, what a pleasant surprise they’ve been!). I don’t see this ruined landscape littered with rosters boned by the CBA.

Aspiration is still under investigation. Yeah, the situation sucks but I’d rather they do the investigation properly before I worry about it. It’s not like the Clippers are gonna win the title, anyhow. And honestly? Kawhi is super fun to watch right now. I’m happier getting to see him play like this than to worry about that investigation before it’s concluded.

The media is what it always is– most of these guys are just mouthpieces. If anything, I’m more annoyed by Rich Paul’s BS than any of the reporters that I can totally tune out with no effort at all. And the All-Star weekend sucks, has sucked forever, and will likely always suck. At least last year we got CP3 and Wemby caring enough about it to be villains, but that was an outlier.

The gambling thing is the only part that worries me. I’ll definitely give you that one, because it’s a huge problem and I hope smart people are working to force the league to draw clear lines between the sport and an industry they should have stayed a million miles away from. Shit sucks.

Important-Flan-8932

6 | 2 hours ago

As a European I find the decline in the NBA a very good example of the decline of the US as a whole.

This NBA season is a JOKE