Micheal Porter Jr on Jamal Murray’s fan perception: “I don’t know if it’s just Serbian fans or fans in general but they’ll call you a Jokić merchant”
MPJ 100% was given that label and until this year did he break from it despite coming into the league as an incredible talent in his own right.
MPJ would’ve been a 6’ 10” Tatum if he didnt injure his back twice
I love Tatum, but MPJ was projected to be better. Really could have been one of them ones.
you’re right, i remember him being the most hyped prospect since wiggins. i think tatum exceeded his expectations and i think being a perennial all star starter/all-nba first team champion was expected for other forwards like MPJ and wiggins, but Tatum had the work ethic
He was genuinely the next KD. He is a max guy even though he his athleticism is way less than it was in high school anyways
He was never going to be like KD. Tatum is a better comp maybe tmac but not KD
He’s not half the defender Tatum is tho
But could he have been with a healthy back?
No. Even at his prime playing for Brandon Roy he was seen a shit perimeter defender who could not move his hips.
But a 6’10 elite scorer who rebounds well is worth it to hide on defense and no one worried. Back injures made a bad problem worse
How do you know? MPJ has been hurt since high school…
Kd was the main comp when he was young, I definitely remember that. It was based on his ability to shoot at his height and the type of mobility he showed (also where he liked to take his shots on the floor).
I don’t see the tmac comparison really. But I also just think tmac is remembered more for his highlights than his reality so maybe I’m a bit biased
He’s closer to KD than Tatum style wise.
MPJ is a career 40.5% from 3 and Tatum is 37.0%
I have a felling one of those is more catch and shoot than the other.
Something something Jokic merchant.
He was 6’10 had great wiggle and bend and could shoot the everliving shit out of the ball
He’ll be joining Luka this next season
KD such a one of one that i usually think comparing other prospects is fair cuz it’s so unreachable but MPJ was the truth, would be funny looking back see him possibly drafted ahead of luka
*Thrice
Nah his IQ is way too low. His ceiling was always gonna be capped by that.
WHOA
He should’ve been an all star this year
Best part is that he’s had multiple 30+ point games as a nugget but people have short memories
The thing is is that that wasn’t totally baseless, as MPJ struggled quite a bit in non Jokic lineups. During their last 5 seasons in Denver, MPJ’s efficiency fell off quite a bit without Jokic (63.5% TS% to 56.4%). and his scoring decreased slightly (whereas someone like Murrays increased slightly)
But this season seems to be showing that that was probs somewhat a result of coaching and how he was utilised, and not simply him being a Jokic merchant. Myself and many Nuggets fans were very vocal that MPJ should have been getting more plays ran for him and taking way more than like 6.5 threes a game under Malone. And now he’s showing that he was certainly capable of way more.
Over the last few years Murray’s efficiency increases about the same as MPJ’s
https://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/player?Season=2024-25,2023-24,2022-23,2021-22,2020-21&SeasonType=All&TeamId=1610612743&PlayerId=203999
Thats nuggets fans or jokic stans the Serbian fans will hit you with a slur
Serbia used to be Serbia-Montenegro, they have the pass
“I’m not racist, my best mountains are black”
And so are our lozenges
Going down my throat either way
Jokic fans have been pretending his teammates were bad for years just to boost his stock, the modern day MJ
Ppl always go whatever way they fits their narrative.
That said, he is an incredible floor raiser and worked some magic during the hospital seasons, you still don’t win a chip with bad teammates only.
I think they’re just fickle like many fans. When Jamal drops 30, they adore him. When he goes 4⁄15, he’s trash.
But you just articulated the problem. Murray has been hella inconsistent in the previous 3 seasons. Especially in the regular season..He comes into the season out of shape and can barely run the first 6 weeks. Then he will score 45 and go cold for the next 3 games.
Accurate.
Seems to be in better nick this year
He shows up in the playoffs that’s all that matters
All that matters to me is he keeps dropping daggers on the Lakers
The problem with MPJ is his high contract and his inability to stay healthy
Then then they traded him for a player who historically is often injuried and people LOVED it. And he is often imjuried this year. Puzzling, the best move they made was signing studs to veteran min contracts which was an amazing year to do so.
It freed up cap space though so they could deepen their bench
They signed vet mins and trades for Jonas Val. Absolutely did not free cap space. They have $-47,179,923 in cap space.
Outside the one year he had back surgery he’s remarkably healthy. One of the most consistently available nuggets
Jordan made the finals more than once, jokic kind of got put in goat convos after a single title run
I mean he won MVP and 50 wins starting guys who aren’t even in the league anymore and his center depth was nonexistent.
Facu, Barton, Rivers.. this entire sub was threads shitting on Jokic for not carrying them past the Warriors lmao
shudders
I mean often times the rest of the nuggets were factually really fucking bad lol. The series against y’all in the playoffs Jamal was shooting historically bad. MPJ and KCP couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn either. Before their championship run jokic was also playing with some of the worst rosters imaginable because Jamal and MPJ were hurt too. Jamal Murray is a way better player this year than he has been in years past full stop.
This removes all nuance of the conversation.
Jamal is beloved by the Denver fan base. So was MPJ. When on the court. Both guys struggled any time Jokic was missing time and struggled to stay healthy. Murray was coming back from a major injury and everyone was unsure if he’d be the same guy he was before.
Also, neither had a half season good enough to be an all star. And that mostly came down to consistency and health.
LeBron had Kyrie and Wade. Steph had Klay.
This year, the Nuggets have an insane growth in depth for the first time since the pandemic. Before this we had Facu Campazzo and Will Barton starting playoff games. Our backup center was Deandre Jordan.
If you actually look at how they have performed in the playoffs as the second fiddle to LeBron and Steph, Murray’s playoffs are at a similar level as other guys you mentioned. Even his “off” years are the same shit you’ve seen from all three of the other guys.
Murray is definitely a playoff riser. There’s no denying it.
There’s also no denying that he was a) out for two years and b) took a while to recover return to full form and c) was never as consistent or available as he has been this season.
And that completely ignored that the nuggets have had an awful 6-10 after the starting 5, which often meant the starting 5 had to play most minutes in the playoffs or we were bleeding points like crazy.
Which is why I don’t blame any player, like MPJ, wanting to gtfo there and away from that toxic ass fanbase.
You get 100% of the blame, and 0% of the credit.
I see this all the time from LeBron stans to try to knock MJ down a peg. Apparently Scottie Pippen is > than all of LeBron’s #2s he’s gotten to play with over the years.
Apparently Scottie Pippen is than all of LeBron’s #2s he’s gotten to play with over the years.
Well, yeah that’s objectively true? If LeBron played his whole career with 2006-2009 Wade you might have an argument, but Pippen is heads and shoulders above Kyrie or the post injury Wade that occupied half+ of the heatles years.
Miami 2011-2013 wade was a better player than scottie pippen and cleveland kyrie also has a argument over pippen considering pippen’s main asset was defence he was not a really great scorer and did not bring the gravity and shooting kyrie bought to the table
Miami 2011-2013 wade was a better player than scottie pippen
2011-2012 maybe, 2013 he had lost a step and a half.
and cleveland kyrie also has a argument over pippen
Not a fucking chance.
considering pippen’s main asset was defence he was not a really great scorer and did not bring the gravity and shooting kyrie bought to the table
Yes Kyrie was a better shooter, but gravity? Dude wasn’t Curry, him being a traffic cone but shooting well on open looks wasn’t close to the impact Pippen provided.
Pippen did not average above 22 neither in any finals or even in the season mj was absent
Kyrie averaged 27 in the 2016 finals playing against defenders much better than anyone pippen played against and he just wasn’t shooting open shots,the 2016 finals gamewinner is literally a heavily contested shot by kyrie
The fact that he could not average above 22 in the season where mj was absent make them close
For their entire careers pippen is a better player
But peak kyrie vs peak pippen is close
He did have some absolutely dreadful teammates though. Look at his 2022 playoff lineups, almost all of those players are entirely out of the league
2 years ago or so his bench consistently played at the level of the 7-59 Bobcats
There’s fifty million more times people saying things like you than the alleged jokic fans
Pippen is no where near Jamal Murray offensively lets be real. Just stop. He couldn’t even lead a team to a deep playoff run without MJ, not in Chicago nor in Portland. His teammates did all the heavy lifting in Portland for their only deep run, and MJ gave him the keys and blueprint to winning in the finals yet he couldn’t even average more than 22ppg as the main guy. Kyrie and Jamal would out play Pippen at any stage of their careers.
3 level scorers change the game more than someone like Jokic who’s value comes mainly from triple doubles. MJ made it easier for someone like Pippen to score because he was a threat from range, giving spacing for Pippen to run down the lane for easy single coverage.
Gravity has been a thing since the beginning of the NBA, too bad it wasn’t realized until Steph broke people’s minds about how crazy spacing/gravity can become.
Pippen lead the Bulls to 55 wins and lost in game 7 of the second round cuz of a BS foul call. Stop with this slander. Pippen was never a volume scorer but he was 3rd in MVP voting that year something Jamal and Kyrie have never even sniffed.
there are so many examples of teams going far in the playoffs with a bad #1 lead
pippen was a good #1 lead, but the other guy is arguing that he wasnt some transcendent talent offesnively, which is true
you just brought up team stats as if that would counter that, yea pippens offense definitely was what brought the team that won the championship 3 years before to barely the 2nd round
simply, MJ is the goat, and jamal murray clears pippen offensively
simply, MJ is the goat,
What does this have to do with anything?
and jamal murray clears pippen offensively
The game is wildly different today than in 1994, but sure, lets pretend that is true. Pippen is arguably the best non-big defensive player of all time. The difference between them in defense is far bigger than the defense between their offense.
What exactly is a deep playoff run because Pippen had 1 year and he went to 7 games in the east semis against the finals bound Knicks, losing 1 game on a questionable call. If they flipped that result would an ECF be a deep run?
Bruh that’s LeBron Stan’s and Klutch who say that type of shit?
Jordan always gave props to pippen and so did Jordan and bulls fans. Lebrons the one who lets his agent claim hall of famers and all stars were “just role players” or stacked supporting cast weren’t “enough”. Lebron Stan’s are unhinged on social media and will tell you Luka is just a fat out of shape liability lol
Lebron stans, Jordan stans, Kobe stans are not that far off lmao. Jordan stans will take the Heatles as a Lebron “bitch move” despite the Cavs failing to build a team around Lebron while the Bulls found a top 10 player to put around Mike. Kobe fans piss me off when they bring up the no top 75 teammates on 09-10 cause thats disrespectful af when we had a roster that’s at worst top 5 in the league at the time, those guys were putting in work and gave great memories. Lebron stans well you described em. Jokic stans are getting close to that level
I cant remember the amount of times I would see someone from a fanbase saying they should trade for MPJ just for some genius to respond the only reason he can shoot the ball is because of Jokics playmaking and gravity ☠️
That’s such a dumb thing to say if you ever watched him play. MPJs value is that he’s 20ft tall and will pull up and shoot right in anyone’s face, he could have two dudes in his shorts and he’s pulling the trigger.
Jokic fans entire thing is pretending he plays with a bunch of G league players
They can’t do that anymore now that Jamal is officially an all-star
Exactly. And he had these types of games with the Nuggets all the time (ask Laker fans)
The problem is in the playoffs his efficiency tanks pretty quickly and he doesn’t do enough off ball and on defense to make up the difference. He’s a good player but not necessarily a winning one
I still think he’s very much a winning player. It’s just that he’s a bit limited in what his skillset allows. On our team, I know for sure there were frustrations because we wanted to run some sets but couldn’t because Mike simply couldn’t make the reads quick enough.
That being said, it was also a joke when people acted like his game would crater without Jokic. A sharpshooter will always be valuable, and a 6’10 one even more so, let alone one who had star talent
I think he can be a winning player but the problem is you need really strong on ball defense from you 1⁄2 to slot him in as a forward and still need good playmaking around him to work around his skillset. He’s become a better decision maker with the ball in his hands and when he’s locked in defensively he can be a good help defender, but when he was paired with Jamal the problem was they were both too bad at guarding on ball and could get exploited if they ever had to switch. People forget but Adelman also benched him because he just constantly zoned out on defense and it was becoming a case where Watson or Westbrook had to step in because he was just such a liability defensively
Ah I get you, yeah he still has some limitations on both the defensive and offensive end.
I guess I just have a different definition of “winning player”, it sounds like to you it means someone who fits anywhere and can win on any team. For me it’s more their mentality, an “empty stats” guy to me is someone who prioritizes their own stats over the team and as a result their shots can often be forced or out of the flow of the offense. A winning player can put the team above themselves and buy-in to a role even if it requires sacrifice – which I think MPJ did more than anyone else on our team
That’s just plain dumb. MPJ could shoot over Godzilla if he wanted to.
You’re 100% right but in their defense that’s all Malone ever seemed to table for MPJ.
This is insanely disingenuous, or you only exist in basketball convos on this app
The influence of nationalism due to European superstars has been interesting to watch.
There’s been an influx of Serbian, Slovenian, Greek etc. fans that engage with basketball like they do soccer and move discourse on players and teams.
That’s just because of social media. A whole generation of Spaniards were Lakers fans because of Pau. The French were Spurs fans. Germans were Mavs fans.
Going further back, Serbs weren’t Nuggets fans but Kings fans because of Vlade and Peja. Croats were Bulls fans because of Kukoc, etc.
And guess where the global Rockets fan base came from
Jeremy Lin right?
social media wasn’t what it is today
The Nuggets light skinned trio got treated like afterthoughts by the Joker mob. They couldn’t wait to get that bum MPJ off of the team all he could do is stand there and shoot 3s
The Turks are here too don’t forget them
Raptors legend Hedo Turkoglu
Elbow to JJ reddick legend
Zach Lowe is not Serbian
I removed that, his wife is Croatian and as a result he’s spent a lot of time in the balkans with Jokic specifically as he’s mentioned on his podcast repeatedly.
That doesn’t make him part of the “european basketball culture”, just like following the NBA for more then 3 decades doesn’t make me part of the US Basketball culture, despite living and working in the US for some time.
I also think, that your understanding of said culture is at best superficial. The vast majority of casual fans don’t only cheer for their countrymen, Luka is incredibly popular in all of former Yugoslavia, despite some serbs still being salty because of that one final and most Serbian fans I know also appreciate Giannis, same is true for Greeks and Nikola. I think the main reason is, that MVPs are a lot less valued over there and the discourse a lot less heated, while ppl also care lot less about narratives. Dirk was for example never seen as soft, partially because he always repped his country and because of his performances at international tournements. He is also very well respected all over the Balkans.
You get it
Let’s get an Argentinian star in the league to get some real sports nationalism toxicity going
Nuggets had one and their fans were legit racist
Don’t forget the Turks
Is there a material difference between the way they advocate for players or move discourse compared to the super fans of Westbrook, Harden, Kobe, LeBron, etc?
Half the Nuggets sub would’ve had you convinced MPJ would struggle to crack 15 PPG without Jokic
It was almost everyone, Nuggets fan or not. I remember because I saw the take parroted everywhere. It’s just what people do, sadly
Half the Nuggets sub
By far the worst team sub in all of reddit, controlled by an ideologue moderator and his group of sycophants
We’re gonna see the narrative shift from “never had an all-star teammate” to “only an all-star because of Jokic”
NBA discourse is such dog shit but also I am stuck in this ever because Parker got drafted to Spurs all those years ago.
Social media killed sports discourse. Everything is just a legacy argument or numbers.
I used to think Reddit was bad…until I saw Instagram and YouTube. I cannot physically open any NBA related posts on those websites.
Twitter has the most obvious engagement bait and bot accounts ever, and it’s starting to bleed into Reddit and other sites as well.
The sad thing is Reddit is bad yet it’s still probably the best social media site for sports discourse.
The amount of atrocious takes on other social media is wild. Twitter has turned into straight bait and farming because you can get paid a few bucks now. YouTube/Instagram is full of people that only watch highlights. Probably have never watched a full game or even checked a box score in their life.
That’s the crazy part. As much as the bad takes on here feel rampant, it’s not even bad compared to almost anywhere else
Murray led us to a winning record with Jokic out. No one is saying this.
No one is saying this at the moment
Just wait till he has a mediocre game and they lose.
But you’re complaining about this NOW.
I’m not OP, but OP didn’t complain about it NOW, they just predicted that the narrative would change now that the old narrative is killed.
Then get mad at when it happens.
People on the Internet love making shit up to get mad at in the future. Looking forward to being pissed off.
Your mad because your fanbase will prove this right
Yall just make up shit in your head to get mad at lol
Feel free to message me if you see any Nuggets fans say this
Our fanbase has been overwhelming happy with Murray this season.
Nah I’m good on that offer
fair play, wouldn’t want to have to change how you feel about something based on evidence
yall literally called him a bitch last season on your OWN sub in a post that was heavily upvoted
and I have receipts if you want it
Very true. Jokic has one of the best supporting casts in the league, which they proved again during that month Jokic was hurt.
Some fans will still act like they are a lottery team without him though.
That’s true for this season. Im my opinion, these are his best teammates since he’s been in Denver.
I do agree but half of those teammates were also injured for that stretch too. They won a lot of games with a worse cast than past Nuggets teams’ had.
Imo I think coaching/easier record/good clutch play were the biggest differences. With those injuries on a different stretch of a season, especially in a world where they had Malone coaching, would have been a completely different story.
That and Jamal finally is playing up to and better than his pre injury in terms of impact on the game. His playmaking especially.
Except its only like 2 bench players better than years past and they’ve been super injured in the stretch without him. Its always been an ideal supporting cast for playoff sucess bar 1 season. Its more coaching.
I will say, in past years the Nuggets’ supporting cast and coaching were worse than this year for sure (though a good chunk this year were injured alongside Jokic), as well they had a really easy schedule during this stretch without him. So they definitely would not maintain a 50+ win pace like they did without Jokic this year in past years on a normal schedule.
Even with that being said, the whole “Nuggets are a 17 win team without Jokic and Thunder are a 50⁄60 team without SGA” was the stupidest argument ever, and a large amount of fans (MPJ said “Serbian fans” instead of “Nuggets fans” for a reason) consistently acted like MPJ/Murray/etc. were worse than they actually were.
Jamal Murray is better than every SGA teammate on the Thunder if we’re being honest.
It’s a huge reason why I have the Nuggets as my favorite to win it all. OKC relies on SGA too much offensively, whereas Denver has multiple elite offensive options.
Nuggets have had great starting lineups throughout jokics ascension besides last year. Biggest issue was depth at certain points and injury.
Did you forget all of last season? They were 4-8 without Jokic. The year they won the championship they were 5-8.
Yes, this season they are good, but back then Christian Braun was still developing and had to play Bones Hyland, Bol Bol, and Facundo Campazzo for serious minutes. MPJ was part of the problem with the supporting cast, not the solution.
This comment is dumb because no one has been saying his supporting cast sucks this season.
This is the best depth we’ve had since like 2019.
Every year before this year, and especially the last few sucked ass.
He’s 100% right
KD touched on nuggets and or European fans rooting for Jokić against the USA which was notable in the Olympics. Makes sense if they’re just eastern euros, but nah some are regular American Jokic super glazers
I rooted for Serbia vs USA as an admitted Jok stan but also its fun to watch the underdog win. Almost always more fun unless its your team and USA basketball even as an American does not hold a super special place in my heart.
Especially these days…
Team USA is so fun to watch I’m surprised when I read American fans say this
I just think it’s way different for Americans than Euros in that Euro national teams I believe play WAY mroe, right? Not every 4 years and most Americans don’t follow the FIBA team.
I will root for USA but as a Nuggets fan ngl hard to cheer for lebron and curry even though I like them both as people. Fuck the Lakers. Fuck the warriors.
I mean the context is a lot different. We have so many players that can compete on the world champions and Olympic stage.So yes we don’t send the best guys for literally every tournament but we are invested in the younger stars getting a chance on the international stage, win or lose.
Whenever we lose in fiba so many freak out online and go into bashing basketball culture in the US, instead of praising how great these other countries are
Yeah, bucket list is a serbian basketball game and an English soccer game. They love when you call it soccer there I heard.
Jok glazer*
It was one guy
This sub is full of people like that lol
There’s fans like that for every good player in this sub
Check the Nuggets flairs every Embiid thread
I was downvoted on this sub for claiming jokic stans are gonna be so upset jamal is an allstar
I’ll never understand being such a big fan of one player that you live everyday trying to tear down everyone else like, do they even like basketball? I see this happen with LeBron fans and LeBron haters too it’s the weirdest thing
As you should. Find me one person who is upset about it lol
he’s in this thread right now lol
/u/nguyenjitsu
Guess you know more than mpj
MPJ did not make the same claim you did
I don’t view this any differently from how fans perceived LeBron’s teammates for much of his career.
The only person that left Lebron’s team and got their first allstar or started playing like an allstar was Brandon Ingram. Moreover, people use 2007 when he made the finals without an allstar, and 2018 in a more similar light.
Lebron did have bad teammates. First stint Cavs sucked outside of Big Z.
people shit on Leborn’s teammates but ignore his competiton in the East was even worse
Was it that his comp was bad or more so he was just that fucking good tho. Toronto Atlanta Boston maybe the magic if they got lucky and the lakers/spurs didn’t see them easily could have won a ring or 2 but LeBrons literal existence made it so that didn’t happen.
uhh it was his bad comp
they played 0.500 teams in 1st and 2nd round in 2007 run lol
from 2011-2018, Lebron faced a TOTAL of ONE 1st Team All-NBA player in East playoffs
You’re just proving his point lol
Would you say that Jokic’s tenure with the nuggets had as bad of a supporting cast as LeBron’s first stint Cavs?
[deleted]
Huh? I’ve watched LeBron’s entire career to-date and what’s being said about his teammates is no different than what MPJ is stating here.
Brandon Bass, Carlos Boozer, Daniel Gibson, probably a few others. All LeBron merchants according to the fans out there. It is what it is.
I don’t know if you were calling me out or not, but just wanted to put that out there.
Nuggets even without Joker were pretty damn good
This season.
I’ve been saying for years Jamal is pretty damn underrated and could easily carry a team to a lower seed in the playoffs on his own without a 2nd star.
Jokic doesn’t make stars better, he just makes their jobs easier which is why Jamal always seems fresh af in the clutch minutes of a deep playoff run.
This is Murray only consistent regular season where he’s been healthy and on form, he’s been a very good playoff player for most runs tho. He’s key to their success
MPJ being too humble right here, he should’ve just used himself as a perfect example.
Exactly the way he got dumped on by nuggets fans and this whole sub was crazy.
If you followed MPJ during his last stretch with the nugs, you’d know he was looking to move on, he basically said so himself. He’s a true scorer, and I think he couldn’t show that (at least as much) until he went to the Nets. Nuggets fans didn’t wanna see him leave, but it was understandable. Believe your false narratives tho
MPJ in Nuggets group text: Guys I just got traded to Brooklyn.
Jokic: Make sure to wrap it up out there.
I’m happy my man is an All-Star this year.
Pretty sure the Serbians wouldn’t say this right? But I damn sure will. True or not.
I’d rather jump off a cliff than listen to a full episode of these three numbskulls yap into mics
what are you waiting for then
Nuggets been winning without him this season just fine but they’ll still find someway to make him mvp, once he got an mvp as a 6th seed I knew it was bs
Thank god for mpj running off his mouth again. I love that this is being brought out in the open. The only real way for murray to prove otherwise would be to move out lol
Every time I see Tommy Alter he is either adding nothing to the discussion or has meat in his mouth
Just fans in general call this not just Serbians.
Got a bunch of Curry merchants on this Warriors team that I highly doubt would be in any competent NBA teams rotation.
They downplay their players to praise jokic even more. Not saying it’s wrong since jokic is fucking amazing and one of the best we will see, but hard to disagree
I’m tired of seeing this sideways headwear mfer
the comment section is disgusting. mpj is a clown and a jokic merchant 100%. he can shoot a 3. if you think scoring 25 a night fort the nets is impressive why didn’t anybody trade for cam thomas? i promise you, mpj is not even in the same world of conversation as JT and i dont even like jt. also everything this guy says is fucking stupid, nobody wants him in the locker room, on their team, or in their city. maybe if he could learn to shut up and just play ball idk.
It’s dope to hear that players bullshit about things like top 5 NBA lists while they’re on the bench
Serbian fans absolutely fucking suck
Just nationalistic fuckwads who never want to hear even the slightest criticism against their guys
Lakers fans rejoicing at the narrative eroding at last
Jokic is a Jamal Murray merchant. Jamal was their best player in the 2020 playoffs and carried them and since without Jamal being a 100% Jokic couldnt get anything done. Jokic is a Murray and 2nd round merchant because besides that play in ring the Nuggets with Jokic as their best player never made it out of round two
Most teams don’t make it to the conference finals without their second best player. Is Giannis a khris Middleton merchant? When AD got hurt the lakers got cooked against the suns. The warriors could handle KD getting hurt for obvious reasons
And the Lakers are better without Lebron
Lol rent free 😂😂
? . I’m not the one writing paragraphs about the Lakers
Murray would put up better numbers without Jokic
No one is saying that but narratives like these do start from somewhere.
The Denver Nuggets were 5-8 without Nikola Jokić in 2022-23.
The Denver Nuggets were also 4-8 without Nikola Jokić in 2024-2025.
Someone must a Jokic merchant here. I tend to think its Malone to be honest, we literally have a ‘non Jokic minutes’ problem for years even when Jokic is playing.
I do think Malone was carried lol
If noone was Jokic merchants how come Nuggets without Jokic has a combined 11-23 record in the last four seasons? You would think all star players should carry the team to a better record than 11-23.
Its only under Adelman Nuggets has gone 180 without Jokic.
Stop giving this pathetic man a microphone
Jokic haters get in here
I’m not a jokic hater. I am a jokic Stan hater. Somehow made r/nba even worst.
Pretty much how I feel. One of the greatest to ever touch a basketball in my opinion, terrible fanbase.
Yep. I think Jokic will go down as a top 15 player all time by the time he’s done, and if he can figure out his defense/win another championship or two, could maybe argue top 10. He is a joy to watch play and I think he has been extremely influential to the modern nba as the archetype of the passing center that we are seeing more of.
He is not some perfect angel who has never done anything wrong, who has never fouled anyone, and never flops. He isn’t the only player that’s allowed to win the MVP and the voting isn’t rigged if someone else wins it. The absolute shit storm of negative posting about anyone who has been in competition with him for MVP has made me a fan of Embiid and SGA solely out of spite. I like Jokic, I disdain his stans. It’s clear a lot of the sentiment that people have on here toward players is the result of agenda posting lowlights alongside people not actually watching the games to see how cherry picked that stuff is. I blame them for the state of toxicity this sub has fallen into.
this sums it up for me..
I get downvoted for saying Jokic is not better then prime shaq
Same