[Windhorst] The Cleveland Cavaliers are signaling that they are willing to move away from their “core-4” in large part because there are legitimate worries that Donovan Mitchell will not extend with the franchise this Summer.
They must’ve gotten some indication he is thinking of leaving, because all this came out of nowhere.
Or the core 4 is clearly not working and they don’t want to stand pat while the window closes.
Trading for Mitchell was always going to be a bet on Mobley’s growth and hoping that the double-big lineup could compensate for 2 small guards. I personally think they were never able to find a true solution at the 3 either.
Yeah, it hasn’t worked and it won’t work. I recognize that, and so swinging for the fences rather than letting it all end next year with not even a conference championship to show for it would be awful.
I’d rather move off some of these young guys while they still have relatively decent value than sell low when we have to blow it up anyway.
Should have kept Lauri.
Also meant you would’ve kept Sexton lmao
Cavs could’ve had both SexLand and SexDen
I don’t think Utah agrees to it then. Looking at the salaries list, it was either Lauri, Levert, or Allen to match. Levert is definitely not good enough. I don’t think they want Allen when they just had Kessler.
Well yeah. I’m saying don’t trade for Mitchell in the first place. The three 7 footer lineup of Lauri, Mobley, Allen was something no other team had and was wreaking havoc on the league.
Lauri wasn’t nearly the player in Cleveland he is now in Utah. He’s been given the keys in Utah and it’s allowed him to become an all star level player, I don’t think that happens in Cleveland, where he was mostly used as a spot up shooter, and especially not if they have Mitchell as the main ball handler.
I imagine getting LeBron’s commitment can keep the core together another 1-2 yrs.
I honestly think the double big lineup could have worked if one of Allen/Mobley had more size. Like Mobley and a center like Adams or Hartenstein would work better imo. Mobley would move to the 5 when they need more spacing and having a legit 7 footer would help them a lot when facing someone like Embiid.
Trading one of your small guards for a bigger guard that can produce and play slightly better defense would be an upgrade though. Harden provides that for alot of teams and surprise more teams aren’t asking about him.
Dan Gilbert was not happy with the team based on what he was paying. So you have an owner that was discontent and a star player that’s discontent. So what do you get? A major shake up.
Look out for the pacers for Allen and then Mobley for Giannis. Dan Gilbert wants Giannis and is done waiting.
You’ve been banging the Giannis to Cleveland drum for a couple weeks. I hope you are right.
I love my guy but watch how fast I sign the Scott Barnes peace treaty with Raptors fans if that goes down
As a Raps fan, I’d sign it
How much of that is to not read Scott Barnes as if my All-Star was an assistant coach, ill never disclose. Peace would be peace
I was banging the Cavs king trade as well before it happened. The nba moves fast and things can change quickly but I know for a fact that Dan Gilbert wants him badly.
You can’t be saying shit like this bc my wellbeing for the next 5 years is now in your hands
Bang away buddy, bang away.
Nothing better than banging. Especially on the trade deadline.
See, when a guy is banging you…
What would you be getting from us for Allen?I don’t see how that one makes sense
I have no insight. Ask the wizard.
My b, meant to do so!
A team with Harden and Giannis would be so bizzare, let alone throwing Lebron into the equation.
Would you really be cool with blowing up for a win now move though?
I mean we aren’t winning as is, so why not blow it up and try something that potentially could.
Yeah it doesnt help that theyre the only second apron team in the league and theyre currently the fifth seed. The have the same record as the Raptors who are paying ~35 million less for their team.
If Mobley is even somewhat available, and they should only move him for a top player like Giannis, I would want my team to call and offer every god damn asset that is reasonable. I can’t believe Mobley would be in any trade at all, if they are resetting they should keep him
It’s not resetting, it’s going all in. If Mobley is available it’s not for assets, it’s for a superstar who can put them over the top in the next season or two.
Way overvaluing Mobley, Jesus. His development has stalled/regressed and he’s just not a cornerstone player. He’s too weak/tentative on offense and his defense is good but no longer great. His motor is lacking, and that’s the worst part.
“his defense is good but no longer great”
He’s the reigning DPOY who is 24 lol. Calm down
He’s so overrated as a defender. One of the least deserving DPOY winners in recent memory. He got rewarded for team success last year.
Wemby, Chrett, Gobert, his teammate Allen, Bam are all better big man defenders.
Do you see my flair? Mobley next to Wemby would be insane
What would you even be asking for Allen? I don’t see how that one makes sense
Sure, but for it all to land suddenly two days before the deadline feels like something got dropped on them.
Or its just the logical time to make a move
Conspiracy take: Evan Mobley is an LA native and pinged Harden to team up and help retain Mitchell
seems odd to cater to Mitchell out of the group though right?
He’s the best player in the group rn. Mobley will probably surpass him eventually, but Donny is clearly it atm.
I doubt Mobley reaches Mitchell’s level.
Yeah. So many people think all these young players will have an SGA like glow up but the majority don’t.
Mobley’s offense will always be a problem. It’s janky as hell.
Dude went from All NBA to non All Star. And he’s been playing all year.
I think he’s just like a Bam Adebayo type dude. He’s going to impress with defense, but never a go-to guy to get you points.
But can obviously be a #2 or #3 guy on a great team.
He’s also clearly the least loyal and leverages his power the most. Idk I just think it’s lowkey foolish to bend to a man who wants to leave. It’s like a relationship, it’s already over when they start looking elsewhere.
Alas, leverage is affected in many different ways. Threatening to leave a team in the lurch is the most surefire way to do it. Look at most of LeBron’s career.
Sure but Lebron could win. He might leave a team barren after but he was the best player in the league who went to 8 straight finals. Don is not Lebron James.
I think it’s more so this is year 4 of the core 4 and it’s clear the experiment has failed. One 1st round exit and two 2nd round exits. The FO has been patient and gave plenty of runway to figure it out but it just hasn’t materialized.
Year 4 and our flaws haven’t gone away. Garland can’t stay healthy and isn’t built to withstand post season physicality. We need to lighten the load on Mitchell as we’ve been so reliant on him in the regular season we can’t have him worn down for the 4th playoff in a row.
Think the FO is shifting away from “potential” and looking more for ways to set us up for immediate post season success. East is wide open this year and need to capitalize even if it shortens our window by a year or 2.
I mean it took Dirk Mavs years and years to finally do it. But they’d need Donovan tho for sure
I just wish we could see them healthy…might not ever happen though. Even in the Pacers series loss last year, Mobley and Garland were a mess with injuries…and Hali/Nembhard made some otherworldly shots to get them past us.
financially he will be a 10 year vet after next season and therefore eligible for the 35% super max anywhere he goes
Yeah the indication was that he only signed an extension for 2 guaranteed years instead of 4
“Cleveland Cavaliers are signaling that they are willing to move away from losing in the 2nd round every year”
Monkey’s paw
that’s some houston texans type shit
why must you hurt me
So trade Garland, bring in Harden, and extending Harden is suppose to convince Mitchell to stay?
I’d imagine Garland’s value is pretty low right now. Beggars can’t be choosers.
Shouldn’t they trade Allen instead?
I think we’re trying that too
He is gone too. Most likely not now, but this summer… if he underperforms AGAIN in the playoffs.
This would actually be a good time to trade him while he’s playing really well, his value is gonna tank after Mitchell Robinson manhandles him again in the playoffs.
I agree, if there is a good trade out there. However, the Cavs can’t just dump him now, because they would be left with just Mobley (who is injured) and Thomas Bryant. That’s it. The roster isn’t constructed well, so there are literally only 3 true PF/C on the roster. You could potentially play Dean Wade or Tomlin at PF, but that’s just a huge downgrade, no matter how underwhelming Allen has been.
They’re trying to be choosers though lol, trying to squeeze draft capital out of the clippers
Why wouldnt it?
[deleted]
This is how we get the “run and dunk, no skill” duo.
If he’s not extending in Cleveland surely he’ll be convinced in Milwaukee lol
3 team trade at that point, Mitchell would get some decent assets as well.
Garland for Harden
Mobley for Giannis
Harden+Mitchell+Giannis+Allen
Now that’s a core-4
That wouldn’t be the only move. If you can’t tell by the reporting there is a LOT going on
Considering Garland sucks now and Harden is playing at all NBA level, yes
If you watch the Cavs you know this core 4 isn’t working out the way intended. Garlands injury history has been an issue and Mobley just hasn’t turned into what they believed he’d be.
Ideally they can keep Mobley but I’d be fine with sending off DG and Allen.
What exactly did people think Mobley was “supposed” to be that 18 and 9 with elite defense is some kind of earth-shattering disappointment? Are there really people out there who expected him to develop into a 25+ a night scorer, and anything less than that means he’s trash?
You’re being so hyperbolic
They want him to be a legit #2 option on a championship team and he’s really not that. His self creation hasn’t taken the next step, he’s still way too reliant on getting fed by other players
Hes an elite piece, but he needs to be the main man, or at least Mitchell’s 1B when it’s playoff crunch time
Yea are we really doing revisionist history on something so recent lol. This was always the hope/design around Mitchell and it’s hard to see him reaching that anytime soon. He’s an elite winning player but all anyones trying to say is that’s he’s not untouchable anymore
AD is an elite #2 and relies on being fed and has runs where he’s all world on both ends of the court. Sometimes not everyone becomes a self creating monster
Pundits (Simmons especially) endlessly pumping the narrative the he would be the next Garnett or Duncan.
Yes. That’s legitimately some of the criticism here.
he was called the next garnett. The Ringer had him as one of the their players who hasn’t improved this season
I always saw him as more of a Pau Gasol. I still think that’s a pretty good comp.
there was so much hype around this guy being the next KG for the past several years, specifically from NBA media pundits like the folks at the Ringer.
He was absolutely expected to be more than an 18⁄9 player at this stage lol. I read enough threads about the leap he was due to take.
I don’t watch college basketball so all the hype I got was from Cavs reporters and dudes like Zach Lowe etc. I heard multiple times people say he had the potential to be a KG level player and that’s what was expected and he’s not even close.
I never said he was trash, I want the cavs to keep him but we for sure expected scoring like that from him and he hasn’t delivered. Great defender yes.
Basically you have Don as the lead and then DG and Mobley are both good third options but the Cavs need another bucket getter which I don’t view either of them as.
He’s on a Supermax deal and he isn’t a #1 or #2
He could be your second best player just not your second best scorer. Being the third best scorer and a Dpoy candidate is second option territory to me.
Apparently people actually read The Ringer for some reason
They wanted his offense to develop to at least bam level. Not slightly better Rudy gobert.
Unfortunately the potential was there but it’s just not happening.
Good, been saying this for a long time now, they should be thinking that way
They’ve been effectively wasting Mitchell playing at a top 10 level for years now being so attached to this core, it’s mostly a garland thing I actually don’t think Mobley-Allen is bad at all
If they swap garland for harden this is a significantly better team I guarantee it
Allen sucks too in the playoffs. And mobley is great but still soft and never took the leap he needed to. Im fine keeping him but dg and allen are both a problem
I guess in my eyes at least Mobley/allen works on paper as a fit, maybe you can bet on them growing or developing further or becoming empowered playing with a playmaker as elite as harden is with bigs
The garland fit is really really bad at least to me
Mobley never took the leap because we acquired Mitchell. DG regressed because he’s unhealthy and we took the ball out his hands and gave it to Mitchell. Don makes no one better. Last year he played team ball and had his stats dip and we were better for it. One year where everyone looked great. Don can’t play up to his personal best and have others playing well.
This is it, they kind of all have issues. Combined they won’t lead you on a deep run. People really haven’t been paying attention
Yeah this team is just not good enough to be as expensive as it is. You can’t be a second round exit over and over again while being in the second apron.
The biggest challenge is going to be a selling low issue and potentially getting older with Harden but it’s just not working right now.
I think it’s a risk you’ve gotta take as Cleveland, harden would be a great fit with Mitchell and now having Ellis makes things work even better as a strong defensive guard defender to insulate those two
Plus the emergence of Jaylon Tyson is a big factor
Mitchell-harden-Tyson-Mobley-Allen
Schroeder-Ellis-Merrill-wade-nance is pretty solid
And then whatever happens with Lonzo
They still need a backup 5. But I guess Bryant can be solid enough
Idk I don’t trust Allen to perform in the postseason
Maybe but that man James harden works wonders for bigs trying to find themselves
None of the Cavs fans do either.
Mobley and allen cant coexist. Not enough spacing on the floor. Teams play off of allen and load off of him. The spacing just isnt there alot of the time
I think Mobley is a passable shooter for his career and will only get better, it’s more about retaining the ability to go double big if needed, if you don’t have that option you’ll struggle against teams that can come playoff time
And we see how that worked for allen. Hes too soft. I love him, but hes just more of a finesse player around the hoop
Mitchell top 10? Maybe offensively…
This aligns perfectly with giving harden 80 million
Feeling like the jazz blowing it up all over again.
Its almost like Donovan Mitchell isn’t a star you build around if you want to contend.
Jazz fans rubbing their hands together rn
Exactly 🙏
Those 2027 first, 2028 swap, and 2029 first look to be more valuable now
I mean we should still be competitive by the.
You guys have been saying this for 3 years now. Remember when he didnt want to re-sign in Cleveland last time?
Not even, Cavs will still have picks in the 20s then.
Nah not really
I will be so sad if they trade Jarrett Allen
I wonder if the Lakers would pounce on that
Why? Dude disappears every time when it matters? Being a regular season merchant is pretty much worthless
Because he is my favorite player and I dont get a ring if the team wins a championship.
Respectable, every player is someone’s favourite.
We’re allowed to like players irrespective of their playoff performance.
Besides, the dude dropped 40 two days ago. We’re allowed to celebrate that.
Jarrett Allen is the center I’ve been dreaming of the Hornets pairing with LaMelo, Miller and Kon
Why? He’s a mental midget every time the postseason rolls around
Because he is my favorite player and I dont get a ring if the Cavs win a chip.
It’s been non stop Cavs rumors from yesterday
Windy speculated that the Cavs would the most active team at the deadline and that’s coming to fruition. Last week they shaved 40m from luxury tax and now it seems they’re coming to the realization that the core itself needs a shakeup.
All of this happened because Garland’s toes didn’t heal and Mobley regressed after getting 30percent max contract.
Does Donovan extend if they trade for Harden is the real question because I don’t think you trade Garland without that insurance.
Miami fans in here would yall want D Mitch
What on earth would Cleveland want from Miami
Huh?
Brooklyn probably have their ears perked up at this Donovan Mitchell news.
Sean Marks has wanted Mitchell on the Nets since he was in the Draft but the Nets had no realistic way to jump 10 spots with their limited Draft Capital at the time.
Now the Nets have 13-1st’s and 19-2nd’s over the next 7yrs with 10-1st’s being Trade Eligible before any Swaps are involved.
They dont have the trade assets
they have the trade assets for giannis but not Mitchell ?
Who aaid they have the assets for Giannis?
you know what i mean (soft tone, not the aggressive tone) how they was saying they could kind of get the assets together if they wanted ? i heard it all over sports talk pods that cover nba
I’ve always been a fan of D Mitch.
No thanks.
Yeah, Bam and Mitch are super close but especially with Miami wanting Giannis we wouldn’t have anything left.
Giannis is already a dream, Giannis and Mitch is a pipe dream.
oh i was thinking mitchell over giannis but im guessing yall want the latter over the former
Depends on cost tbh. Donovan is obviously younger and lines up Bam a lil better. But Giannis the overall better player. If Donovan is way cheaper, it could be worth it. But what he lacks compared to Giannis is probably offset by age.
It’s pretty obvious this core isn’t it in the playoffs, good for them not continuing to put this off.
In hindsight the Cavs should have never traded for Mitchell. The team was so fun and young when it was garland, Lori, Mobley, Allen. They could have built around that young core.
I’m ready for all the Harden trade talks to ultimately result in him ending up with the Kings because their Front Office is run by booger-eaters.
To avoid underachieving again in the playoffs they want to trade for James Harden?
Cavs should bet on the core of DG, Mobley and Tyson and let Don go instead of mortgaging the future.
I agree with this.
Bet on that core doing what? Are you willing to accept this year and likely next year as development years with the east being a free for all? Because that trio is not winning a playoff series especially if DG is on and off the injury report per usual
They’re not winning anything with Don either.
I think Mitchell Mobley and Harden is a way better team than people are thinking, especially in the east. This “core” of an injury prone defensive liability PG, Mobley, and emerging young player Tyson is not winning anything this year or next year
What a difference a year makes
I could see it, Mitchell is playing the best ball of his career and it’s shaping up to be a down year for them.
people were tired of the giannis trade rumors, so windy has to bring something else up for a change of pace
Why did I think Mitchell just signed an extension recently ?
Feels like Cleveland is either going to make a huge win now move or the wheels are going to fall off and a rebuild around Mobley starts.
What a great feeling you have!
Nobody saw that coming after consecutive losses in the conference semis and a first round exit the year before.
Especially after going 64-18 last year and then being 30-21 this year, something needs to be done - this 4-core isnt going to win it all. Hence, why they already traded away De andere Hunter after trading for him last year.
Sign and trade LeBron for Donovan
You are telling me two guards two centers does not make for a championship squad?
Does he want to live on a different lake or something? Asking for a friend
Should’ve just traded Mitchell. He isn’t the guy.
Isn’t his source Bontemps who was merely voicing an opinion?
Why not trade Mitchell to build around your young stars adding players in their 30s is incredibly risky.
So why trade for a 36 year old? Shouldn’t they think about getting younger?
Who will be the third team to believe Donovan Mitchell will be their centerpiece. Then be disappointed when he gets injured and they lose in the playoffs.
Donavon and a younger player and two picks for Giannis?
I lost a lot of respect for Windhorst and Shelburne when it became obvious that they’re receiving money from Ballmer
They saw the Leafs and what happens when you hold on to a core 4 a little too long.
Is Donovan worth it though?
I thought Cleveland was Donovan’s city?
Trade him for LBJ? One last ride with Dan Gilbert?
Donovan a Laker when Lebron retires.
I never wanna hear the phrase “core 4” again
Think spida still wants to go to New York?
It makes sense to move from one of their front courts because of the horrible spacing
There’s only 1 core 4 and 2 of them aren’t coming back and hoping we lose at least 1 of the remaining 2 in a few weeks
🔪
Lights were too bright for this whole team
Whatever hope they had of getting a cheap LeBron next year just went out the window
I’d blow it up too if I’m the Cavs and my team isn’t a top 4 NBA team and winning 60 games. You ain’t a title contender, just a pretender. Make some trades and see if you can reshuffle the deck and win at hand.
They weren’t going anywhere with Mitchell anyway lol.
whos mitch marner in this cavs core 4?
Mitchell was never going to stay in Cleveland long term. And with LeBron coming back next season for the farewell tour, I doubt he’d even want to be around.
Mobely is just a taller version of andrew wiggins. not in the way they play but if you remember the sentiment of andrew wiggins in minnesota he fits that vibe
No kidding. It’s about time. I said from the get-go one of Mitchell/Garland and one of Mobley/Allen would have to be traded. It was always doubtful it would work. Three consecutive playoff flameouts and a massively disappointing regular season during the fourth for an extraordinarily expensive team? You blow that shit up. Bye Allen, bye Mitchell, keep Garland since he has no trade value anyway, shut him down and hope he gets healthy. Build around Garland/Mobley and go from there.
Lebron + AR and a pick or two for Donavon and Allen?
Letting an un undersized 2 guard hold yall franchise by the balls is crazy work
Seriously. I’d rather just move mitchell now than to go through another lebron scenario. A hero-ball small 2 guard who makes no one better when he’s on the court? THAT’S the guy the entire franchise needs to placate?
Just trade Mitchell as the center piece in a Giannis move.