Rank	Player	TS%	PPG	Season
1	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander	67.5	32.0	2025-26
2	Stephen Curry	66.9	30.1	2015-16
3	Adrian Dantley	66.1	30.7	1982-83
4	Stephen Curry	65.5	32.0	2020-21
5	Joel Embiid	65.5	33.1	2022-23
6	Adrian Dantley	65.2	30.6	1983-84
7	Giannis Antetokounmpo	64.9	30.4	2023-24
8	Damian Lillard	64.5	32.2	2022-23
9	Joel Embiid	64.4	34.7	2023-24
10	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander	63.7	32.7	2024-25
11	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander	63.6	30.1	2023-24
12	Kevin Durant	63.5	32.0	2013-14
13	Adrian Dantley	63.1	30.3	1981-82
14	Karl Malone	62.6	31.0	1989-90
15	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander	62.6	31.4	2022-23
16	James Harden	62.6	34.3	2019-20
17	Giannis Antetokounmpo	62.5	30.4	2024-25
18	Adrian Dantley	62.2	30.7	1980-81
19	James Harden	61.9	30.4	2017-18
20	LeBron James	61.9	30.3	2021-22

Prize-File2979

314 | 8 hours ago

Shai having 4 seasons in this top 15 despite having a slow start to his career is mind boggling. His offseason training must be ridiculous

nowhathappenedwas | NBA

204 | 7 hours ago

12 of the top 20 seasons are in the 2020s because TS% is at all time highs and scoring is the highest its been since the 1960s.

SGA’s 67.5% TS is “only” 17% better than league average (57.9%).

Curry’s 66.9% TS in 2016 was 24% better than league average (54.1%).

This is why we should be using context adjusted stats like TS+.

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

81 | 6 hours ago

Adjusting to league average answers a different question

It’s perfectly reasonable to do, but it isn’t telling you the same thing

nowhathappenedwas | NBA

38 | 6 hours ago

One adjusts for context and the other makes no adjustments.

One could say that the top 40 best offensive teams are all teams from the past few seasons. But that doesn’t really tell you anything other than that leaguewide ORTG is at all time highs.

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

15 | 5 hours ago

Yes, adjusting for context means comparing 2016 Steph to a league average that is dragged down by a league that had not yet been fully transformed by the 3PT revolution. The rTS% calculation compares Steph to players and teams with less efficient and outdated play styles that do not exist today.

²⁶⁄₃₀ NBA teams in 2016 had a lower 3pt rate (3PR) than the lowest team’s 3pt rate in 2026. ²⁵⁄₃₀ NBA teams in 2026 have a higher 3PR than the highest team’s 3PR in 2016.

Looking at rTS% means that you want to drag Steph’s rTS% up because he’s playing in a league with more teams that are playing suboptimally. That very well may answer the question you’re answering. It also may not - the additional statistical bias can take you further from answering the present question.

nowhathappenedwas | NBA

29 | 5 hours ago

Comparing to league average tells you how a player performed in the actual environment they were playing in. It’s universally accepted across sports — it’s not some weird tool to “drag Steph’s rTS up.” Baseball fans don’t pretend that all the best pitchers played in the dead ball era, and basketball fans don’t have to pretend that all of the best offensive players are playing now.

It’s shows us that, say, Oscar Robertson was an incredibly efficient scorer despite the fact that his TS% would be below league average in today’s league. Ignoring all context would tell us that Jaylen Brown is a more efficient scorer than Robertson. Or that Banchero is as efficient as Wilt was.

You’ve talked twice now about the present “question.” How would you frame that question other than “best TS% ignoring all context?”

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

3 | 5 hours ago

Comparing to league average tells you how a player performed in the actual environment they were playing in.

TS% tells you how a player performed in the actual environment they were playing in. rTS% does not tell you that.

Nobody calculating OPS+ actually thinks that Babe Ruth was the best hitter in the history of baseball in absolute terms. But if your question is to compare to league average, then yes you should use OPS+ and it would tell you that he was the best compared to league average. It is not answering the same question.

I don’t think it’s a weird tool designed to drag up Steph’s rTS%. But by using it, you are accepting that you think that in a comparison with Shai, Steph should be rewarded for playing in a worse league.

Dapal5

2 | 3 hours ago

Not a worse league. A different league. Even just taking into account the foul calls/no calls difference this year and rule changes previously means you are playing an entirely different game in every era/year. I mean go look at the sticky stuff stats vs not in the MLB. What use is there comparing someone who gets to use goddamn glue or is banned from zone defenses to modern day. We measure how good a player is by how they outperform their peers. Oh yeah Shaq lead the league at 27 PPG but he’s trash because Wilt had 50.

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

2 | 3 hours ago

What differences between the league in 2016 and 2026 makes you think that 2016 Steph would have a significantly higher TS% today?

Dapal5

-3 | 2 hours ago

Refs, offensive scheme, defensive shifts leaving more wide open shots, more passing. Thats why the entire league is up 5% from 2016. You’ve seen the shifts. Which is why we compare by era.

operatorred | Heat

3 | 5 hours ago

Right but that’s indicative of just how impactful Steph’s season was. It’s like you can see in the context-adjusted statistics how his performance shifted the makeup of the league in real time. My reflex is that this is a STRENGTH of context-adjusted stats, not a flaw. Like that performance is the reason we can even look back at the league then and label it as “sub-optimal.” Also, framing it like that sort of assumes that the basketball we’re seeing is “optimal” but that’s impossible to know. There’s a good chance that in 20 years, skill sets and strategies have changed so much that we look back at the league in the 2020s and label it as sub-optimal. Do we just never acknowledge any great performance because there’s always the chance that we learn that it occurred in sub-optimal circumstances? (hope I don’t sound inflammatory or anything - genuinely curious and grateful for the good-faith conversation and find this stuff very interesting)

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

5 | 4 hours ago

Right, and reflecting that Steph was at the precipice of a transformational moment in league history might be context that people care about in certain discussions, but I don’t think that it is universally relevant. Are we going to penalize every future player because they had the misfortune of being born too late to play in a league that hadn’t realized the value of the 3PT shot yet? Because that’s the best way to maximize your rTS%.

A lot that can be said but for the sake of brevity (relatively) I’ll just give some light on my perspective:

I care about assessing how good I think basketball players are. This is a pretty difficult task and all of the numbers we have are ill-suited to give us the answer on their own.

When I look back at footage of 2016 Steph, I am genuinely blown away by how he is being defended. By far the greatest season of his career, and yet 37-year-old Steph faced tougher defensive coverage against Houston in the playoffs than 2016 Steph. Why? Because it wasn’t yet understood just what a generational talent he was.

I think Steph probably peaked in 2021. His rTS% was lower, his TS% was lower, but he was in a league that fully understood the once in a lifetime player that he was and threw everything at him. And a league that had fully embraced the 3PT revolution. And on a significantly worse team. Puts up 32 PPG on absurd efficiency no less.

But compared to league average? Well, 2016 Steph blows everything else away. And yet I don’t even think that was the finest version of Steph. This makes perfect sense to me because comparing to league average means you’re introducing information that is not actually about that player at all.

gignac | HOU

2 | 3 hours ago

Yea like 2016 steph was in a league where basically no one switched the p&r, it was easy mode

aoifhasoifha | NYK

-1 | 4 hours ago

ooking at rTS% means that you want to drag Steph’s rTS% up because he’s playing in a league with more teams that are playing suboptimally. That very well may answer the question you’re answering. It also may not - the additional statistical bias can take you further from answering the present question.

This is insane logic and telling word choice

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

8 | 4 hours ago

Go ahead and explain why you think so!

Blackroseguild

1 | an hour ago

You are killing these fools 😂

HoopLoop2 | Thunder

2 | 4 hours ago

It’s pretty common knowledge the average player is a much better shooter now than decades ago. This is why your “context” of comparing how much they stand out from their peers is massively flawed. Shai isn’t going to magically shoot worse if you put him in a game 20 years ago, so according to you the exact same Shai we see now would actually be better 20 years ago, because he would be significantly better than his peers in efficiency.

Yes there are rule changes that can affect players slightly, but also players are more athletic and better defenders so it kind of evens out. Overall the league is more talented than it’s ever been, which is why comparing how much someone stands put vs their peers is always going to favor the old school folks much more than they deserve.

DamnZodiak | Toronto Huskies

6 | 4 hours ago

So the main takeaway is that Adrian Dantley was fucking cracked?

SerAardvark | Warriors

2 | 3 hours ago

Kind of. He was an unusual player that was basically a SF playing like a PF in the post who also went to the free throw line a lot - high FG% (.540 for his career) and a good FT shooter (.818) on a lot of attempt (8.7 per game).

His overall game was a lot more limited though - not a great passer/distributor, not a good defender, had multiple conflicts with other players, coaches, etc.

motorboat_mcgee | Lakers

1 | 4 hours ago

I’ve tried to use TS+ in conversations with folks before, and it usually gets drowned out with downvotes and calling older players trash.

[deleted]

-5 | 7 hours ago

[deleted]

nowhathappenedwas | NBA

8 | 7 hours ago

67.5 is 17 percent more than 57.9.

Percent, not percentage points.

pescawito | NBA

4 | 7 hours ago

The correct kind. 50% is not 25% more than 25%, it’s 100% more.

tbgitw

-6 | 7 hours ago

I would argue 17% better than all the players in league that prioritises efficiency is just as good, if not better, than Curry’s 24% in a league, which was still transitioning into efficiency era.

rosecurry | GSW

5 | 6 hours ago

That would make sense if it was like 17% and 18% but the gap is too big

Barrelled_Chef_Curry | Warriors

4 | 6 hours ago

Yes you’re right, they didn’t realise in 2016 having a better FG% than the other team was a good thing

LilBigZay | Thunder

5 | 6 hours ago

I mean this is clearly misrepresenting his point and pretty grossly too lol. Role players are taking a LOT more efficient shots today than they did in 2016. When it comes to upper echelon players within the last 10 ish years straight TS is a better indicator of who’s more efficient.

LilBigZay | Thunder

-8 | 7 hours ago

rTS and TS+ are pretty misleading when it comes to comparing players in different eras recently. Think about it, the average role player today vs 2016 have wildly different shot diets. Roleplayers today mostly spot up and drive and seldom take difficult shots. I still think rTS is useful but those numbers are pretty misleading.

nowhathappenedwas | NBA

34 | 7 hours ago

There’s nothing misleading about comparing to league average.

It’s misleading to ignore leaguewide trends. There are 17 players scoring 20+ PPG on 60% TS this season. Only 3 players did it in 2016.

Parallel-Quality

52 | 8 hours ago

Hijacking the top comment to highlight something even more ridiculous:

SGA and Curry being the top two in efficiency despite being guards.

These guys do not play anywhere close to the basket.

This list should be filled with guys like Shaq, Wilt, Karl Malone etc. People who take most of their shots in the paint.

I don’t think people realize how crazy it is that two guys who take jumpshots are doing that more efficently than guys who score in the paint.

BlueGrovyle | Hawks

35 | 7 hours ago

I think it’s misleading to suggest that they “don’t play anywhere close to the basket”, especially Shai who has led the league in drives before (if I’m not mistaken). He has counters and leans on his mid-range pull-up, but no one is getting 10 FTA on a “jump shot” diet.

Plus, the most effective paint players in history also are usually not great shooters (and thus not great FT shooters), so TS%’s flattening of FT% into a singular stat with everything else benefits guards.

Finally, of course Curry is impressive, but also, of course he’s essentially at the top. 3 pointers, when hit at his career best, are by far the most valuable shot in the sport in a team setting. They’re far more available than layups, the most valuable shot in a vacuum. That is, of course, my way of giving props to him, not taking anything away from him. One does not simply lead the league in 3p% and volume, which is what made his 2016 so legendary.

CrippledBanana | Canada

9 | 7 hours ago

Yea he’s led the league in drives in the last two years at least until this year where it is Deni at first on drives

gigglios

9 | 6 hours ago

Why would the lost be filled with bigs lol. 3s and fts have an insane impact on TS

atlepi | Hawks

1 | 29 minutes ago

Plus bigs dont really average 30+

Substantive420 | Supersonics

3 | 5 hours ago

True shooting stat gives extra credit for 3’s and free throws. Your statement is more accurate for a stat like FG%

BlueCollarGoldSwaggr

14 | 7 hours ago

It’s not mind-boggling, league-average TS% has extremely high during his prime.

Prize-File2979

-4 | 7 hours ago

I’m talking about him as a player because he came into the league as a skinny unpolished guy who didn’t even really have a jumper. Why are you trying to hate

BlueCollarGoldSwaggr

5 | 6 hours ago

No you’re not talking about him as a player, you said it’s mind-boggling that despite a slow start (I’d argue he didn’t have an abnormally slow start, I didn’t see potentially multiple mvps coming either, but whatever) he has 4 seasons in the top-15. I’m saying it’s not mind-boggling that the mvp or at worst the 2nd best player in the league in this era has had eye-popping TS% numbers during his peak.

Prize-File2979

-3 | 6 hours ago

??? I’m literally talking about his career trajectory and highlighted his offseason training which he’s getting better every season of his career, can you use reading comprehension or is that too much to ask?

hoastman12

1 | 6 hours ago

Bro read your own primary comment, you mention 4 out of the top 15 and he’s referring to that.

XxXc00l_dud3XxX

1 | 5 hours ago

his point is that it’s crazy that shai has more seasons in that top 15 than ones he doesn’t considering shai’s first couple seasons werent very impressive. the point is how fast he has improved.

CrippledBanana | Canada

9 | 8 hours ago

I love players who come out of nowhere and make such a splash in the nba. Everyone expects the top picks to achieve a level of greatness but the low lottery, second round picks, or undrafted players reaching it are a blast.

SGA, Jdub, AJ Mitchell, butler, jokic, Giannis, AR, Maxey are some of my favourite players to follow just to be able to witness their journey lol

tmanx8 | Thunder

1 | an hour ago

The fact that it’s only Ajay Mitchell’s second year, but you could tell how much potential he has just by watching him play

CurrentRoster

1 | 26 minutes ago

derrick white started out in D2 and initially had so little offers, he almost played ball in a cooking school

bbecks | Thunder

6 | 8 hours ago

I love that its a progression upward every year too. Just steadily getting more and more efficient.

Iron_Maniac | Thunder

2 | 6 hours ago

The one season we had CP3 in the team did so much for his growth

dsbllr

1 | 7 hours ago

The hammer is where he trains and it shows.

axecalibur | CHI

1 | 5 hours ago

slow start

Why do people think players have to be MVP all-star level right out of college? Which is one year after high school?

Prize-File2979

3 | 5 hours ago

Shai averaged 10, 19, 23, and 24 PPG his first 4 years on 55, 56, 62, and 55% TS, going from that to what he is today isn’t normal

CurrentRoster

1 | 25 minutes ago

i remember i used to write him off when okc was tanking and he was getting injured, BOY did i not expect this

ntg1213 | Thunder

125 | 8 hours ago

The main thing I’m getting from this list is that Adrian Dantley is severely underrated

logster2001 | Rockets

47 | 6 hours ago

I actually think Adrian Dantley is overrated. He is the prime example of efficient scoring does not necessarily equal impactful basketball. The Pistons moving on from him was the reason they won those championships

Ozone_Gang | Lakers

16 | 5 hours ago

Nobody talks about him though. Measuring by this chart he should be one of the greatest players of the 80s but he only gets brought up negatively. Not sure how someone can be overrated when they’re already only viewed negatively.

BookkeeperDecent7170

-1 | 6 hours ago

No its because Isiah was a bad teammate

MrWhiteside97 | Heat

25 | 5 hours ago

Read Ben Taylor’s book Thinking Basketball. Goes into detail on why Dantley didn’t actually contribute to winning. Boils down to the fact that when he shot the ball it was an efficient shot, but he did nothing to help the rest of the shots his team took, and often made them worse (eg passing the ball out with 5 on the shot clock if he hadn’t been able to create a shot for himself)

Wavepops

7 | 4 hours ago

He’s like what Melo haters actually think Melo was.

ElectronicReport4113 | Thunder

18 | 7 hours ago

The original AD

AutomaticAccident | Pistons

1 | an hour ago

I don’t know. The Pistons traded him away before winning a title for a reason.

Lstark5642 | Thunder

80 | 8 hours ago

He’s one of the best scorers of the basketball ever. I’m not gonna throw out any names or suggest he’s number one all time, but I truly feel anyone who doesn’t agree that he belongs in that conversation is either just hating or doesn’t like basketball.

It just looks so effortless. At times it feels like he’s slowly walking into a pull up elbow middy and it baffles you that he’s that open. Multiple times a game he darts into the lane for a wide open layup out of no where. His ability to leverage his jumper and driving ability by using snatch backs and negative steps effectively is just gorgeous.

Everything he does just looks easy.

gigglios

11 | 6 hours ago

He only has 2 playoff runs avging 30ppg. No shot he should be called a top 1 scorer ever lmao.

tmanx8 | Thunder

2 | an hour ago

He’s only been in the playoffs four times, and the first two was his rookie/sophomore seasons. Give it a couple more seasons and then maybe there can be a discussion but definitely waaay too early to say top 1 for sure.

boybraden | Thunder

-3 | 8 hours ago

We used to say if Kyrie was 6’6 he would be in GOAT conversations then Shai came around just to test that theory

JuJu_Conman | Kings

11 | 7 hours ago

Somehow, this is insulting to both shai and kyrie

here_for_the_lols | Thunder

2 | 6 hours ago

I think it’s a compliment to Kyrie he was never as much of a bucket as shai

OhJeebz

-5 | 3 hours ago

It’s easy when you know the refs are in your pocket

Top-boy-og

-5 | 8 hours ago

He’s basically guard version of KD lol. KD is the best scorer ever above 6’6 while SGA reigns supreme over 6’6 and under guys

GuilhermeBahia98

48 | 7 hours ago

SGA is not a better scorer than Jordan

ColonelCollemWest

23 | 7 hours ago

Dang already better than Jordan and Steph

RoutineMenace

20 | 7 hours ago

I love SGA, but he’s not better than Mike

BlueCollarGoldSwaggr

63 | 7 hours ago

There needs to be a banner at the top of r/nba that says “please do not compare raw TS% across seasons/eras”

Prize_Ad_1781 | Nuggets

29 | 7 hours ago

At least we’ve moved on from Fg%

Spemanz92 | Thunder

18 | 6 hours ago

Slow small improvements. Cant have such big expectations

ObiOneKenobae | Knicks

51 | 8 hours ago

By advanced stats, he and Jokic are still having the two best seasons in NBA history. Crazy stuff.

nowhathappenedwas | NBA

43 | 8 hours ago

By “advanced stats” do you mean “stats based entirely on box scores?”

By EPM, Curry’s 2016 (+10.5) is still well ahead of Jokic (+9.6) and SGA (+9.5).

Neatojuancheeto | Warriors

21 | 7 hours ago

So was hi rTS%

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

5 | 6 hours ago

rTS% doesn’t answer the same question. I think people have gotten in the habit of using it as a perfect solution but it doesn’t really work that way.

If you want to know how efficient somebody was compared to league average, then yeah use rTS% which will tell you that Curry had a bigger gap than Shai.

If you just want to know how efficient a player was.. then rTS% is introducing other information you didn’t ask for.

2016 was earlier in the 3PT revolution and many teams and players were further from playing optimally on the offensive and defensive ends. This drags down league average TS% and thus inflates rTS%. It tells us that Steph and the Warriors were ahead of the curve but that’s probably not the information people care about in comparing 2016 Steph to 2026 Shai.

Neatojuancheeto | Warriors

3 | 6 hours ago

There has been an explosion in offense since then. Better spacing, higher pace, easier buckets.

Scoring is way easier than it’s ever been since any of us have been alive.

EmbarrassedRing7806 | Lakers

-3 | 6 hours ago

Yes, the game is being played more optimally now across the league because of the 3PT revolution such that 2016 Curry’s rTS% compares him to inefficient, outdated players and teams.

Augchm | 76ers

1 | 4 hours ago

But obviously you should compare to league average. Teams having better offense in general is not thanks to anything Shai is doing.

BigBossShadow

36 | 8 hours ago

I love both of them as players, but it feels like basketball has become so easy to cheese offensively (assuming you are at elite skill level) that these stats dont really mean that much anymore

samlet | Spurs

23 | 8 hours ago

I don’t know about cheese, but compared to 20 years or even 10 years ago, the optimization of offenses has definitely supercharged how efficient players can be. It’s why comparing eras is always kind of funny.

Offensive strategy 20 years ago was drawn up on whiteboards. Offensive strategy today is drawn up by decades of analytics research, Sloan Conference papers, Ivy-League quants, etc. Much respect to SGA and his game, but he didn’t usher in the advances of pace and space, etc. that he benefits from.

Things like relative True Shooting % try to capture players relative to era, but IMO those are more conversation starters than the statements of fact I sometimes see them used as. The greats were/are great!

Morezingis | Timberwolves

3 | 6 hours ago

Josh Giddey averaging 19/9/9 supports this take heavily.

Akanhann

13 | 8 hours ago

Offensively maybe but we have people that have won mvp, and dpoy in the same season. MJ, Hakeem, and Giannas all have a case for best seasons also I would argue. Dominance on both sides>. But Jokic and SGA are amazing not trying to downplay them.

binkysurprise

7 | 8 hours ago

DPOY voting isn’t super worthwhile imo though. It’s dependent on sports journalists’ subjective opinions, which especially in the old days, was uninformed. MJ is probably the best player ever and he could be a great defender, but he still was a guard. An elite rim protector will always have been more valuable than a guard on defense.

Akanhann

11 | 8 hours ago

Problem with what you said is you can say the exact same thing for MVP. And you only addressed one of my examples what about Giannis and Hakeem ? I would agree sometimes the wrong DPOY can be chosen, like I don’t think Rudy should have 4. But I also don’t know anyone picked for DPOY that wasn’t elite defensively. You can’t just give it to bigs every year when players like Sidney Moncrief, Kawhi Leonard, and Gary Payton exist. Though I agree paint defense is more important sometimes the perimeter guys are that good they need to be rewarded. I partially felt as though Dyson Daniels should’ve won it last year.

binkysurprise

0 | 6 hours ago

Oh sure, MVP and All-Star selections are also flawed metrics when comparing players all-time. But I think voters are better on MVP than on defense.

NoHacksJustTacos

0 | 5 hours ago

You can legit say the same thing about mvp lmao

vindictivejazz | Thunder

0 | 6 hours ago

SGA is a great defender for a guard, he damn near made all-defense last year, and has a good shot this year too.

He’s not ever going to win DPOY because he’s not tall enough to be an elite rim defender (though check out his block on Wemby, shit was sick), but he’s definitely a valuable enough defender that you can at least argue that, when combined with his elite offense, he’s putting up seasons that are just as valuable as those seasons by Giannis, Hakeem, etc

Akanhann

0 | 4 hours ago

He’s not ever going to win Dpoy because he’s not an elite defender good I’ll give him but not great . Great guard/forward defenders are Dyson Daniels, Kawhi, Alex Caruso. The height statement doesn’t work either because we just seen Marcus Smart win Dpoy a few years ago who’s shorter than SGA, and years prior GP did it. Elite defensive guards are Tony Allen, Avery Bradley, Jrue Holiday. SGA is good not great at defense, he’s surrounded by a roster of good defenders and being a good defender himself makes his defense look even better. Yes great offense can be better than someone who’s great at both. But in the case of a Giannis for example the year he won MvP and Dpoy he’s arguably the best player on both sides. Jokic and SGA could never do that.

Forshea | Spurs

-2 | 7 hours ago

I think breaking it down to “offense” and “defense” is part of the problem.

Like people see “offense” and think scoring and “defense” and think on-ball defense, but there are all sorts of aspects to the game beyond those things. Like yeah, Jokic is averaging almost 30 ppg on unreal TS, and that is and should be a highlight, but he’s also a generational passer, and that’s part of offense, too.

Meanwhile, on defense, people see a high dfg% and some highlights of him not contesting shots and think his “defense” sucks. Of course, the Nuggets defense has always been better with him on the court than off, but that’s because he does everything else on that side of the ball outrageously well, too. His foul rate is incredibly low (and free throws are the most efficient shot in the game). His defensive rebounding is top of the league. His positioning is top tier.

The net result is that opponents had scored about the same percentage of their points in the paint against Denver this season before Jokic’s injury as they had against the Timberwolves and 4x DPOY Rudy Gobert.

So really what we’re talking about is a guy who is at the top of the league in all sorts of things - on both sides of the ball - but just doesn’t do that great at contesting shots at the rim or defending the perimeter. That’s not a guy who is bad at half the game.

Akanhann

1 | 4 hours ago

I never said he was bad at defense y’all keep trying to make a case for Jokic’s defense he’s a good defender at best. You can nitpick certain stats and metrics , but he isn’t elite defensively that’s my main point and yes great offense trumps great defense, and yes great offensive players can make up for a lack of defense. But the players I brought up are at the top all time in defense and offense. Jokic and SGA are still having some of the best seasons ever but they aren’t elite defensively that’s the main point. MJ, Giannis, and Hakeem are elite at both ends.

Forshea | Spurs

1 | 3 hours ago

You missed the point entirely. I’m not saying that Jokic is an elite on-ball defender. I’m saying that Jokic is elite at as many or more basketball skills as the people you are listing, and that saying he isn’t elite at “defense” is dumb because “defense” isn’t one skill.

Jokic is absolutely better at multiple defensive skills than Jordan was. Just not on-ball perimeter defense.

Augchm | 76ers

1 | 4 hours ago

The reason the defense is better with Jokic on court is because the Nuggets play with the worst centers they can find when Jokic is off the court.

Forshea | Spurs

0 | 3 hours ago

The thing is, this argument is mutually incompatible with the argument that Jokic is a bad defender because his dfg% at the rim is bad. Nnaji’s DFG% under 6 feet is like 15 points better than Jokic’s and better than even Gobert, Mobley, Zubac, and Porzingis. It was similar last year. It was even better the year before. Shouldn’t that mean we think Nnaji is an absolutely elite rim protector for the same reason that we think Jokic is bad?

Augchm | 76ers

1 | 3 hours ago

I don’t say Jokic is a bad defender because of his DFG%, I’m saying he is a bad defender because I have eyes.

Another key thing of why Jokic defense is overrated by advanced stats is because he reduces turnovers by his team and lowers transition scoring by the offense. A more efficient offense is also better for the defense since again you reduce transition scoring.

But he is a horrible half court defender.

Forshea | Spurs

0 | 2 hours ago

He is not a horrible half court defender if he leads to the other team scoring fewer points than an average center, which he does. He just doesn’t match your aesthetic for what good defense should look like.

boybraden | Thunder

-4 | 8 hours ago

Dominating on offense is more important than being elite on both ends. A dominating offensive player can have a massive impact on almost every single play on offense, while a dominating defensive player can be purposely avoided, switched off or brought away from the play. Obviously both matter, but it’s they aren’t equal importance at the superstar level.

Akanhann

8 | 7 hours ago

Y’all keep saying that I never said they are of equal importance. The players I listed are elite defensively and offensively. Are you trying to argue Giannis isn’t elite offensively or Hakeem? The point is they can do both. Jokic can dominate a game offensively but not defensively imagine if he could dominate both💡. I can’t explain it much simpler. I’m not saying who’s better but we are talking about best seasons. How do you who are only dominate in one end have a more elite season than someone who was arguably the best player on both ends ?

brendanearth

1 | 6 hours ago

Nobody brings up “both side” dominance because defense is strictly done as a team and it is hard to measure. If the strategy is to sell out and take away the three, it will almost always necessitate giving up mid range shots and allowing some blow by drives which makes some players look “bad” even though that is the team strategy. If the strategy is to prioritize deflections and turnovers, it’ll lead to more fouls. If the strategy is to limit possessions and fouls, that might mean fewer rim contests and more box outs. There’s also a huge amount of defense that don’t show up on film (communication, IQ, etc.) or not on box score/stats (giving up a drive which becomes a swing pass to a open three -> doesn’t show up on opponent fg% or contest % for the guy who got beat and started the whole play). If there was a way to account for this and properly measure an individual’s defensive contribution, it would be immediately be used and be in the discussion when considering the best players, but there is none available. Offense for the most part is easier to contextualize in stats and is more singular (a player with high volume iso stats that scores at high percentage means he’s likely a good iso player and you don’t really need to dig much deeper).

Akanhann

1 | 4 hours ago

Literally everybody brings up both side dominance what nba conversations are you watching? Look at the people most people list in the top 10 the majority were elite on both sides at one point. LeBron, MJ, Kareem,Duncan, Wilt, Hakeem, Kobe, Bird, even Shaq almost won Dpoy. The only people that get mentioned in the top 10 the aren’t elite on both sides are Curry , and Magic pretty much. It absolutely matters, and no defense is not just a team thing that’s a terrible take also. Kawhi Leonard is one of the best individual defenders ever 2 time dpoy can change the game alone. Even Rudy Gobert who I’m not the biggest fan of has raised every defense he’s been apart of. Even Jokic who I’m making a point that he isn’t elite defensively raises his teams defensive rating when he’s present. It absolutely is not just a team thing. There are even elite defensive players on bad defensive teams overall so that’s a bad take. Giannis is still one of the best defenders but Milwaukee team defensive rating is crap because the roster sucks .

TrRa47 | NYK

3 | 8 hours ago

That’s all a part of defensive impact, though, no?

IonHazzikostasIsGod | Raptors

5 | 7 hours ago

It’s watered down by the fact the Kings had the best offensive rating in NBA history a couple years ago

Antisystemization | Cavaliers

2 | 6 hours ago

That Kings team had way more offensive fire power than the KD Warriors obviously

Rapey_Keebler_Elves | Timberwolves

42 | 8 hours ago

Best scorer on OKC’s roster imo

KiowaBear | Thunder

32 | 8 hours ago

He’s definitely in the conversation

LifeIsToughEatBacon

3 | 4 hours ago

minimum top 3 I say

rompyskateboard | Raptors

23 | 8 hours ago

Gimme Ousmane Dieng 😤

Financial-Park-7616

8 | 7 hours ago

In a trade? Yes we would be happy to package Ous and a few second rounders for a first round pick of yours. We don’t currently have enough first round picks

XxXc00l_dud3XxX

2 | 5 hours ago

Best scorer that’s ever been on OKC’s roster 🫢

ColonelCollemWest

1 | 7 hours ago

Best scoring starting point guard on OKC for sure!

Plaitkul117 | Thunder

-6 | 8 hours ago

Oh easily. No contest. In fact, most of our guys aren’t great scorers.

Barrelled_Chef_Curry | Warriors

10 | 6 hours ago

Whoosh

Plaitkul117 | Thunder

3 | 6 hours ago

Oof you’re so right 🥀

sctthuynh | GSW

33 | 8 hours ago

Steph also came close in 2023

65.6 TS 29.4 PPG

Weezildude

33 | 7 hours ago

If you drop it down to 29+ PPG to see some of the other “near miss” seasons. (which is a notable dip at the top)

#1 Jokic 71.7% at 29.3 PPG this season #2 KD 67.7% at 29.1 PPG, 22-23 in his two team stint #3 SGA 67.5% at 32 PPG, the season this post is about #4 Curry 66.9% at 31 PPG, 15-16 #5 Jokic 66.3% at 29.6 PPG, 24-25

For guards though, SGA and Steph appear so often at these disgustingly elite percentages, Dame also appears as you’d expect. Jokic and KD appear as often as you expect. I didn’t expect Adrian Dantley to appear 4 times in the top 20, but I’m still new to basketball so I’m not well versed on older names.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=highest+ts%25+in+a+season+ever+by+a+player+averaging+29%2Bppg

Independent_Pain1809

27 | 8 hours ago

We all act like Adrian Dantley never existed…

gurkank5830 | Lakers

1 | 2 hours ago

I have never watched him. Was he really good? For how many years? How did he get so many FT?

Longjumping_Idea5261

27 | 8 hours ago

Incoming army of “that’s because he foulbaits”

Old_Supermarket_7575 | Thunder

29 | 8 hours ago

56-40-90 on 32 points a game

Mf is a basketball god

pkwjones | Spurs

11 | 8 hours ago

Hitting 50-40-90 club whilst averaging 32 is insane

GorillaX | Thunder

1 | 32 minutes ago

“He scores so much because guys know they can’t play tough defense on him or they’ll get called for fouls”

TatumBrownWhite | Celtics

25 | 8 hours ago

Yet there’s still idiots who think Luka is better than him

Kindly_Letterhead_98

13 | 8 hours ago

Luka is the goat hypothetical hardware winner

TatumBrownWhite | Celtics

3 | 6 hours ago

What’s funny is so many “Lakers” fans are pushing this because obviously he’s their new guy and all, and yet, the GOAT Laker in their eyes is Kobe, who was all about ringzzz and there is no way Kobe would say a player with no rings is better than a player with a ring and an MVP.

plbz

0 | 7 hours ago

It’s a clear sign of bias.

Ask all 30 GMs. I legitimately believe 80% or more would pick SGA as their 1 option over Luka at this current moment.

InstructionAlive1086 | Pacers

4 | 3 hours ago

80%? I would be surprised if even one picks Luka

XxXc00l_dud3XxX

2 | 5 hours ago

Emphasis on that “or more”; just 80% is pretty conservative for the best player in the nba right now. i think you’d be hard pressed to find even a single one who’d rather have luka

dinonuggies3210 | Warriors

15 | 8 hours ago

What is Curry’s 2015-2016 true shooting filtering out heaves like they do now?

Edit: If you recalculate his true shooting filtering out shots beyond half court it goes up to 67.5%. Most if not all of those shots would count as heaves under today’s rules. (He attempted 18 and made 1)

Yellowbucket58 | Celtics

15 | 8 hours ago

For what it’s worth, that Curry season is still comfortably the best high volume shooting season of all-time. His eFG% that season was .630% which is absolutely absurd for a guard.

Different-Winter2855

1 | 8 hours ago

It Would probably stay the same

justFramy | Thunder

-4 | 8 hours ago

can’t imagine it would change too much

MrProfessor | Thunder

8 | 8 hours ago

To do this as a guard who doesn’t shoot that many threes is unfathomable. Simply unreal. Look at the list. It’s either dominant interior players, or all-time level 3 point shooters. And then there’s Shai sitting at first place.

Odoaiden | Timberwolves

6 | 8 hours ago

Shai actually has a pretty similar distance shot diet as the Embiid season in the top 10. Shai absoloutly is a dominant interior player

CrippledBanana | Canada

3 | 7 hours ago

Also Steph lol. Steph had such an absolute bullshit season (in a good way) and then someone else comes along 10 years later doing the same shit hahaha.

LaMeloxMilesxScoot

8 | 8 hours ago

Can we do relative True shooting pls. Offense has been inflating for a while now

DrButtLump | Lakers

7 | 8 hours ago

no ones going to talk adrian dantley? i thought i knew ball and i never heard of that man in my life 30 ppg at 6’5 in the 80s? how have i never heard of him.

Wavepops

2 | 4 hours ago

He was a popular and controversial player. Had very open issues with Isaiah Thomas on the pistons. Pretty selfish player but also really effective, pistons traded him despite him being a monster scorer got someone 80 percent the scorer but a better overall player and someone willing to sacrifice more in Aguirre who was zeke close friend from Chicago. Pistons went on to finish the job the next two years after a soul crushing loss to the lakers

DeyZent | Magic

8 | 7 hours ago

70% upvotes 😂😂 this sub really hate him

preddevils6 | Grizzlies

6 | 6 hours ago

His name needs an -ic at the end to get more upvotes

QuileGon-Jin | Thunder

2 | 7 hours ago

That’s more than I expected, tbh

Antisystemization | Cavaliers

-1 | 6 hours ago

It’s because comparing offenses across eras is dumb.

People on this sub will say LeBron’s peak was when he was on the Heat but meanwhile he had his highest PPG a decade later at 37 years old.

The game’s gotten easier.

LetsLive97 | Timberwolves

5 | 6 hours ago

72% on almost 30ppg is nuts

SGA and Jokic are so fucking good man, I hate how much their fans shit on each other

unbannedagain1976 | Thunder

5 | 5 hours ago

Yeah well Anthony edwards is super talented and fun to watch so you can just take that.

AnkitPancakes | Thunder

3 | 8 hours ago

Kinda cool that he’s on this list 4 times lol

Mastuh | Supersonics

3 | 8 hours ago

Dude we’re barely halfway through the season and you posted a stat of him being .6% above curry lol

Jonny_Stranger | Thunder

5 | 6 hours ago

51 games played so far, you been in a coma?

Edit: Supersonics flair, my guy is not locked in

Mastuh | Supersonics

-1 | 6 hours ago

Barely over half. Thunder fans celebrating .6% is nuts bro

tmanx8 | Thunder

1 | 42 minutes ago

.6% above or not; the fact that he’s even around there is pretty cool, so why can’t we be happy?

raoulraoul153 | NBA

1 | 6 hours ago

I don’t want to sound like I’m saying anything negative about the absurd, historical scoring run he’s been on, but in addition to the season being part-way done and the other crazy efficient seasons (Jokic, KD etc.) that just miss the ppg cut-off, TS this year is 57.9%, and it was 54.1% for Curry’s second-ranked year there.

There’s definitely an argument that some of that difference can be attributed to the league in general not having cottoned on to the level of efficient play we have these days - although that also means that current players benefit from the spacing and gameplans that’ve evolved since then (for example, 2016 Klay made something like one extra three every two games compared to Dort last year - one was remarkable, the other is now much less so).

Overall though, there’s nearly a 4% difference in how much further Curry was ahead of the league in 2016 compared to SGA this year. Comparing the raw numbers doesn’t come close to telling the whole story (and that just gets more extreme going back decades).

But again, as a card-carrying Curry stan I’m mostly just shocked that we’re seeing another guard that’s legitimately in the conversation with him. Definitely would have bet heavily that it would be a long time after he retired, not whilst he was still playing.

ThenYao

4 | 8 hours ago

SGA having 4 of the top 15 spots is actually insane

razehound

2 | 6 hours ago

Clips traded him and 5 FRPs for Paul George…

AcanthocephalaSad541 | Heat

3 | 8 hours ago

I can’t believe 19-20 harden is on here holy

Lelouch37 | Warriors

3 | 7 hours ago

Wait who is Adrian dantley???

darksoles_ | Thunder

3 | 7 hours ago

Hooper

viking_ | Nuggets

3 | 6 hours ago

Seeing Adrian Dantley on this list among a slew of modern superstars is pretty funny.

swizznastic

2 | 6 hours ago

He just does not fucking miss. Best midrange scorer I can remember in recent years.

ItinerantDrifter | Thunder

3 | 6 hours ago

In threads like this there’s always lots of talk about how rTS% would be better… and I agree.

But I don’t think that’s the best way either… today’s offenses are just more optimized overall, so standing out is harder. In other words, my guess is that it’s just tougher to “separate from the pack” these days.

Maybe some sort of metric that takes this into account would be best… like standard devations away from league average, or something similar.

engagew | SEA

1 | 5 hours ago

it’s also easier than ever to play offense because of how fouls are called

ItinerantDrifter | Thunder

1 | 5 hours ago

That’s true. There are different factors at play… so yeah, it’s just not possible to compare things perfectly.

And my guess is that even if you did it my way Curry would still be comfortably on top, although the margin might decrease a bit.

Wavepops

3 | 4 hours ago

Two guards under 6’6 at the top of this list is insane

Blackroseguild

2 | an hour ago

Coming for Steph

justFramy | Thunder

1 | 8 hours ago

meet efficiency man

mambamentality29

1 | 8 hours ago

Again this just shows me how overrated this stat has become. No Jordan on here shows that.

Midichlorian_counter | OKC

3 | 7 hours ago

TS% has just consistently gone up for stars and teams since the 3pt revolution. Id bet Jordan is very high on 30+ ppg and relative trueshooting lists.

MundaneInternetGuy | Bulls

2 | 6 hours ago

Jordan’s career high is 114 TS+ compared to SGA’s 117 this year so far. No idea how to get a list of 30 ppg scorers ranked by rTS though.

ClickElectronic | Mavericks

2 | 7 hours ago

Any comparison that goes back more than like 5 years really should be relative at this point. Leaguewide ORtg has gone up by like 10 just since Steph’s first MVP year…

‘16 Curry was +12.8 rTS%, SGA this year is “only” +9.6 rTS%.

Antisystemization | Cavaliers

0 | 5 hours ago

The 2023 Kings had an ORtg of 119.4. The 2018 KD Warriors had an ORtg of 115.9.

People in this thread are claiming players today are much better than players 5-10 years ago are crazy.

The players aren’t better. Offense has gotten easier.

Draciouz

1 | 7 hours ago

SGA thread and more comments than upvotes, name a more iconic duo

BlueCollarGoldSwaggr

2 | 7 hours ago

More to do with the post itself than SGA

Igmister1 | Thunder

1 | 7 hours ago

Every Shai post this happens though

AaltoSax | Bucks

1 | 6 hours ago

Giannis has 67.9% this year (which is tanked by his FT%) but only on 28ppg

herseyhawkins33

1 | 6 hours ago

We need rTS% alongside the list to really put things in perspective.

bobbacklund11235

1 | 5 hours ago

He’s the Mac, might as well accept it

kebnva | BKN

1 | 5 hours ago

He averaged 30 a night on excellent efficiency (in the 80’s-90’s !!!) and was still a net negative impact wise. I’m not sure there are enough bad things to say about a player like that tbh

AnExtraordinaire | Cavaliers

1 | 41 minutes ago

dear god does basketball need league adjusted stats…

hairforce_1

0 | 8 hours ago

And then what?

nbaistheworst

0 | 7 hours ago

Check back at the end of the season.

WV_Is_Its_Own_State | Lakers

0 | 6 hours ago

This is a cute stat and all but like, is he done shooting for the year? Lol. Can’t this change with a shooting slump?

WildWhiteNacho | Lakers

1 | 6 hours ago

Also arbitrary af cut off. Make that 29ppg, and Jokic is clearing him by 5% this year

WV_Is_Its_Own_State | Lakers

1 | 6 hours ago

Lol ya, this is one of those bullshit cherry-picked ESPN stats that ppl claimed they used to hate. If this is it at the end of the regular season, great - congrats to Shai. Until then, stfu about it. It’s not over!

OhJeebz

0 | 3 hours ago

Most overrated player ever

Ittenvoid | Spurs

0 | 3 hours ago

I wonder what his shooting would look like if people were allowed to defend him.

captmorgan50 | Thunder

-1 | 8 hours ago

What an ethical TS%. The Epitome of a great basketball player.

OXY_TheCrimsonBlur

-1 | 7 hours ago

Well when he uses his off-arm every single possession I don’t see why it wouldn’t be.

Carolake1 | Lakers

-1 | 7 hours ago

Stop with this. It isn’t the first anything because he hasn’t played a whole season. When he does that, then post about it.

3830BlockKing | Rockets

-1 | 8 hours ago

Curry stans sweatin

Smookieman | Warriors

-3 | 8 hours ago

and how many fts

Old_Supermarket_7575 | Thunder

-3 | 8 hours ago

The most efficient, most consistent scorer ever

Is a mid range savant

Imagine that

Genericthrowaw4y | Thunder

-5 | 7 hours ago

Shai will have a better career than Curry and Kobe. There’s no flaws to his game

gigachadspeciman

4 | 7 hours ago

Lmfao

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander’s 67.5 True Shooting % is the highest in NBA History for a player averaging 30+ PPG.

Top 20 Highest TS% in NBA History for a player averaging 30+ PPG: