[Highlight] Amen Thompson pulls a Ben Simmons
Can’t become a star playing that way
We’ve started seeing more teams play a “zone” against the Rockets, and I put zone in quotes, because it’s basically:
And this is a really effective strategy against the Rockets, I do think we’ll see more teams adopt it. Works especially well if you have someone like Wemby, who is an unreal help defender while still quick enough to play man D on Amen, but most teams can do a decent job of this strategy without a Wemby. Whoever they play in the playoffs are gonna go to this strategy real hard.
Plenty of centres do still get away with no jumper, but everyone else needs to be able to shoot to be effective in the modern NBA. Amen is a guard/wing, he definitely needs to develop a jumper. If he develops one, he’ll be sick - insane athlete, elite defender, solid feel for the game. But he absolutely has to develop one, no jumper is a fatal flaw for a guard/wing today.
I was wondering why no one counters that the way GSW does with Steph, because there’s no one around to switch if you run effective dribble hand off action. Then I forget Steph just needs a sliver of daylight and no one else is Steph.
I mean that’s pretty much what happens here, KD gets a shot that’s usually automatic for him. Amen still had 25 points last night against this defense.
Amen was gassed too by this point, he played a ton of minutes and was the primary ball handler for most of it.
He missed a few easy shots before this that he was making in the first half, that’s why he hesitated here.
Kid is a fucking freak though, he develops a shot he will be a legitimate star.
If he develops a shot he’s an mvp level player…
Turns 24 tomorrow. Needs to get that jump shot together pronto. If you don’t have one by your mid 20s, it probably ain’t coming.
Not against this defense. Wemby was getting cooked by Sengun so they had him on Amen while Keldon Johnson was against Sengun. The adjustment, Udoka never had an answer to.
Amen needs to start shooting a bazillion shots from the elbow/free throw line in practice
I understand giving the ball to KD, specially in a tight game.
You mentioned wemby. I’d love to see a rockets spurs playoff series
Why don’t more teams employ the Wemby defense?
pull a giannis & get juiced + develop a mid range game.
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Giannis ain’t scared to shoot the 3 one bit. He’ll airball free throws but doesn’t give a fuck he’ll draw a foul the next play.
Amens a worse shooter than Giannis so that’s a bad option too
Giannis was shit on a shingle until he developed one. I mean I agree I’m not high on this Amen project of offense but it isn’t like he was some demon outside the key
Would have
Balco serves the Greek Freak too?
Nah Giannis would shoot that every time despite miss or make. It’s a part of what makes him great. You cant just not take that
Hes already juiced
in the past sure, but today nah
Not even in the past. Even they had a mid range game
to be fair wemby was right there pick up if he wanted to take a shot at the elbow. but i dont care how bad of a shooter you are, if youre open in todays game, you need to shoot it
This game was played yesterday though.
I like you, smart ass. XD
Thompson looked like he had pretty mid range there to me
The only past player you can call a star without having any semblance of a jumper was Rodman and maybe Charles Oakley
Ben Wallace?
Ah I’m old and didn’t consider Ben to be a past player 😆 but you’re right
Ason Kidd
Dikembe Mutumbo
Rajon Rondo
Shaq
Wilt
Wilt could shoot everything but a free throw.
Oak was pretty good from the top of the key
Yeah Oakley was a very willing mid range shooter and that was his main shot diet later in his career.
Oakland at least average double digits until he was getting into his mid 30’s
For sure that’s why I feel like Castle will be a star. Even if he’s not making it he’s not shying away from it.. he’s starting to take those mid range shots they giving him even if he isn’t making there
This dude is untouchable for fucking giannis lmao
The crowd reacting to it is funny
I was rooting for the Spurs and still yelled at my TV when he did this. He was playing like they were up and killing the clock.
Definitely will be unplayable in the playoffs
Everything I’ve heard about them suggests the Thompson twins are good guys who work hard, but holy shit the hype around them going into this season was whacky.
People have always been pretty realistic about Ausar but yeah Amen is literally his twin lol
They’re just the best athletes in the NBA so if the scoring ever did click it would be so perfect
Ya it’d be a Kawhi situation. But that’s why Kawhi is such a rare case.
Lots of guys get better jumpers over time. Blake Griffin, Julius Randle, Brook Lopez, Kawhi, Jason Kidd. Amen is in his 3rd season and has increased his FT to 80%.
that seems like a very small number of dudes but ok
edit: also, amen is probably starting out as a far worse shooter than any of those
Jason Kidd was famously nicknamed Ason because he didn’t have a J early in his career and was still a waaaaay better shooter than Amen in his first three years. Also, Kawhi was good shooting the 3 in his first three years at a 37% clip. Lopez played in a way different era for a fat chunk of the start of his career and then as soon as he decided to shoot threes wasn’t bad at it.
Basically all of them have a significant leg up on Thompson. You kinda have to hope that Blake Griffin is the comp. Basically equal the first three years and then years 5-7 are 34%. Not great but enough that this defense isn’t tenable. Same basically with Randle.
Still, that’s not many examples at all.
Aaron Gordon was a pretty bad shooter.
Also Drummond kind of figuring it out gives me hope for anyone lol
Kawhi turned into a legit sniper and one of the most efficient shooters ever though. Chip Eangland is actually a genius
Pistons fans themselves are not realistic about Ausar though.
Some are, everything we’ve seen from him at this point, and the precedent of shooters as bad as Ausar never getting better at shooting has been there for the entire history of the league suggests he’ll be a non-shooter forever, but there are certainly holdouts in our fan base. I think Ausar will be a valuable player at 20-25 minutes a game regardless, but as is he’ll never be a true star and he’s currently pretty much unplayable at the end of any game where scoring points actually matters. He’s one of the most “mixed-bag” players in the NBA (as well as his brother) but he’s so much fun without a jumpshot sometimes he forces you to not care. The biggest bottleneck for Ausar at this point is that Duren can’t shoot either, playing both at the same time is insanely stressful for the offense (and more specifically Cade,) while Duren is just currently the more valuable player. As long as both are (at least as is) on the same team, Duren will just make it impossible for him to get serious run on a contender, and that’s not Duren’s fault because right now he’s just more valuable to our team.
Amen was legit in playoffs last year.
Yeah, but now that he’s older and better he’s going to be worse. /s
He has a major weakness, but people are overreacting to a game where he wasn’t great against maybe the best defender in the NBA. He’s still a very good starter at age 22.
It’s not that. It’s that his weaknesses become more common knowledge to everyone and if he doesn’t develop different skills to diversify his game, he’ll be easier to gameplan for
Lol this was known about him in last playoffs too
The Warriors couldn’t put Draymond on him to roam since he had to be on Sengun.
Warriors wrecked us defensively.
Draymond was able to take Sengun without needing a double. Sengun was scared to attack him in the post and kept settling for awkward push shots from the free throw line. Amen’s man cheated off him constantly. They rotated out their defensive guards to hound Jalen on the perimeter and deny him the ball. Even if Jalen beat his man he still had to deal with Dray and Amen’s man on the drive.
Sengun’s mid range is better this year and we went from Green to KD but our backcourt is a complete mess. Amen and Reed are not PGs. Losing FVV and even Jalen really hurts because we end up playing with basically 4 wings and a center.
He was legit one of the best Rockets players last playoffs. Do you guys, even watch the games? If he was only your average only by athleticism carried player, then I would understand this take but Amen is legit one of the smarter players and does so many little things on offense despite a big non existent jumper weakness. He is nowhere near being a negative offensively player, let alone useless and only contributing on defense.
He was arguably their best player last year in the playoffs. He can still pressure the rim getting the ball on the outside when he isn’t having to deal with Castle and Wemby. He is only playing such a perimeter oriented role in the first place because the rockets don’t have a healthy PG. Nobody was saying any of these things about him when FVV was healthy and Amen was excelling in a completely different role.
He was basically their best player in the playoffs last year
He was fine last playoffs
This is a stupid basketball question but:
Isn’t the purpose of him running to the 3-pt line intended to space out the defenders and open the lane?
Because it seems like that doesn’t work, the defenders essentially ignore him.
I guess my question is why, at this point, does he keep running to the line in these situations when the team knows there is no spacing benefit? Surely there is something he could be doing that is actually more helpful than simply going through the motions of running to the 3-pt line and providing no benefit to the offense.
Being open for a pass is not nothing.
Being in the paint would be the opposite of spacing, so standing out there is better
If he’s by the rim, they have to at least guard him and he’s there for an offensive rebound. Him at the 3 pt line literally does nothing
Him being inside the paint on offense takes away a passing option, like the other guy said, and clogs paint for teammates cutting / driving.
Paints already clogged if his defender is in the paint playing free safety on the passing lanes
Yeah thats kinda why hes a problem lol
It doesn’t clog the paint if his defender is already there. Passing option is whatever in this situation if you aren’t a threat to do anything with the ball
He’s an extra body in the paint though in this example, maybe that is what they mean?
Amen himself would be another body in the paint clogging it
You can’t really let athletic playmakers like Amen get a free line to the rim regardless of whether they are a shooting threat. If he isn’t marked and he goes to the rim with momentum he has far too many options. He can dunk, floater, euro, kick out, lob it, wrap to the dunker, hit a cutter etc. The Spurs make it look look so easy because of their personnel.
The reason Amen is getting the ball up top is because Reed Sheppard is the closest thing they have to a healthy PG on the roster.
If everyone knows you’re not gonna do anything when you get the pass, it basically is nothing
If his defender is going to play that far back he can run a DHO to create space for a teammate, which is what he does. Having him sit in the dunker spot when that’s where Sengun wants to operate isn’t helpful.
I think the most effective thing he can do on the floor in this scenario is screen KD’s man or screen a 3 point shooter or cutter’s man similarly to how Draymond has had to play since losing his jump shot.
I’m also a believer that if you’re open and they pass to you then you have to shoot the ball. It doesn’t matter that it’s the 4th quarter with 6 minutes left and you don’t want to waste a possession. You have to shoot the ball.
Now I would rather scheme something up so that hes moving and freeing someone up or something else up than just let him take 20 open shots because they are not guarding him. But also Kevin Durant does not like a set offense and he wants his iso touches.
The twins need to learn a short mid range shot like a floater, get to a respectable percentage from 3, or get a much tighter handle. One of those skills would make sure that they can play in the playoffs but as of now, I just think they are such negative offensive players that it’s going to be hard to win their minutes.
He gets himself out of the way and has generally better passing angles for a guy who isn’t going to see over everyone.
Swing pass or receive the ball to do a PnR perhaps?
He needs to be in the dunker spot. But with sengun already in the paint it’s a crowd.
Why is amen a shooting guard but not able to make a 3?
Amen is so athletic than an open lane even if the defenders don’t guard him, could be a shooting foul or a drive to the rim due to momentum (unless Wemby is defending).
sixers fans watched waiting for him to turn down an open dunk… dissappointed
That’s what I expected. I understood his hesitancy when I saw Wemby standing there, salivating at the potential block. I honestly think that highlight was what went through Thompson’s head too.
THANKFULLY, KD stays zooted and pulled up for a mid range without hesitation. That didn’t disappoint.
Agreed that’s what pulling a Ben Simmons has to mean, plenty of players pass up open threes
Houston fans will say it was only one game etc but that was a complete dismantling in the fourth quarter. Detroit is gonna have similar issues in the post season.
Its way more than 1 game.
I know we’re pretty dogshit from 3 but I do not miss having this problem. Andre Roberson comes to mind. Dude would just pass out of WIDE open threes at times.
It was a complete dismantling but I’m not sure why Amen gets highlighted. Entire team fell apart and amen probably had the best game of people in Rockets jerseys. Not that I’m trying to deny or anything it’s just a weird example.
Honestly the problem I see is that it’s been coached into him to look for Durant at all costs. Like Durant is good but you have to take the shot when they leave you this open. Dribble up to the elbow and take that shot. It’s not like he can’t make the he does all the time.
That’s more like a Draymond Green impression.
Seen Draymond being completely ignored and handing it off 1000’s of times already.
Only difference is sometime Draymond shoots an ugly and usually off target push shot and he’d also set a more “effective” screen.
Draymond’s shot makes me cringe every time, but he still shoots above 30% on 3’s. Amen is closer to 20%
On a good day he’ll take advantage of gravity, fake HOs and lay them up racking up like 5-8 +assists. On a medium day he’ll draw a foul, ugly flex and hit 1 of 2. Still hypes the team and gets us towards the bonus. We don’t discuss bad days
He turned a bad 3 point shot into a look for a much better shooter. That’s a good thing
If a wide open 3 is bad, what would be a good one?
A somewhat contested KD mid range 2 is probably a higher percentage shot than Amen taking an open 3.
Yes, but if that’s the world you have to live in your offense is cooked in the playoffs.
Amen is like 20% from 3 so an expected value of 0.6 points. If KD is >30% to hit that shot then it’s a better one, and I would guess KD is like ~40-50% from that spot, not to mention the small chance Johnson accidentally fouls him.
But is he shooting 20% on very wide open 3s?
Since he isn’t defended at the 3 point line I’m gonna say all of his attempts are very wide open.
Most of them are probably open in the corner, tbh
He’s actually shooting about 15% on wide open 3s, which is defined as “at least 6ft+ of space from closest defender”. So ya, it’s actually worse than you’re thinking.
A KD elbow jumper with his defender trailing behind him is better than an Amen open 3. Sure would be nice for Houston that Amen was at least a mediocre 3 pt shooter, but that’s not what he is unfortunately.
A shot from any guy that doesn’t convert the shot at like a 20% clip.
Someone shooting 30% from 2 is equivalent to an Amen Thompson 3 point shot
The main reason Houston lost last night was because the Spurs pretty much forced KD to take contested jumpers because due to being able to play 5 on 4 on defense, Houston can’t drive into the paint or post up with Sengun
Like Amen really needs to atleast take some 3s or midrange shots and force some defensive attention
The point is… In a scenario like this, if you’re the Spurs you know that that shot that they end up taking, even if it’s a shot from a good shooter, is coming because there’s just no world where you’re scared or expecting Thompson to take that jumper. Jumper. That was a well-contested shot because again the Spurs knew that’s exactly what was going to come from it
The less options you have on offense, the easier you are to defend and the more likely you are to have things break down in the clutch. Hence the rockets being one of the worst clutch teams in the league this year.
Teams have a pretty good idea of what they’re trying to do at the end of games and can defend accordingly
There wasn’t a defender within 6 feet of him
There are 3 people in the paint when he gets the ball. Thats not a functional offense
How was that a bad shot when he was completely open? Lol
Cope. If you are a top 5 draft pick and not a inside man center, you need to be able to comfortably take wide open 3s and make them at least half the time if not more because they are wide open
i think amen opening up space for for what should have been a money KD jumper is probably good
Wide open threes are the highest EV shot in the sport.
Yes it’s good that he didn’t force a bad shot or turn the ball over, but having a ball-handler getting that little respect presents lineup problems.
Granted not every team has an 8 foot tall alien that can sag off and basically defend half the court, but it’s a very exploitable issue in a 7 game series
Yea I get that it’s amen hate week but KD makes that like 85% of the time
He had a few dunks off of those hand offs then KD returned it to him. They stopped doing that when he eventually lost confidence lmao.
Even Sengun was shook down low rushing shots over Castle
A guard passing up a wide open 3 to give the world’s best middy shooter a contested middy is not a good basketball play. He needs to shoot that, and if he can’t there’s a definite ceiling on what his team can achieve. Ben Simmons is literally the poster child for what happens when you have everything going for you except a jumpshot. If the Thompson brothers don’t lock themselves away shooting 3s until they’re no longer among the worst in the league, neither of them will ever win a ring as a focal point of the team
Honestly more surprising that kd missed that
Mad respectful to Ben Simmons
Ben Simmons walked so the Thompsons could run
That’s pretty bad.
I mean, KD was trying to bail him out by doing that play that Draymond and Steph do when nobody guards Draymond: Steph comes flying and basically runs his man into Draymond…..who stands there like a brick wall (except if the brick wall also leaned into it) and hands off to Steph for an open three. Steph gets three…..his man might have a concussion…..and next time they have to keep Draymond’s defender a little closer so there’s a chance to switch.
Thompson needs to go to the Draymond Physical Screen Camp. How he did that was so dumb. Pausing, dribbling inside the line and then doing a weak moving screen for KD.
Me when I start a new MyCareer with zero points in shooting and all on speed
I think FT% matters more for his development than 3p%.
He’s never going to be able to shoot the 3. He has to punish defences by relentlessly attacking the rim & either scoring or drawing a foul. That’s the thing with Ben Simmons was they he was afraid of driving because he couldn’t shoot FTs. You have to avoid the hack-a-shaq strategy.
This last two season (275/ 402 FTA 68.4%) This season (170⁄212 FTA, 80.2%)
Do we believe he can be a consistent 75-80% FT shooter consistently (including playoffs)
The problem is that Amen is going to play off ball a lot more with the current roster and shooting 3s is what’s gonna make everyone’s life easier
If he won’t even attempt wide open threes, the defense is going to force the ball to him and play 5 on 4
Other players who are non-shooters are able to leverage the space the defence gives him as a runway to get to the rim. If he is so dangerous getting to the rim are you going to just allow him to get to full speed & draw a foul or finish.
Making 3’s could make everyone’s lives easier, but there’s a higher chance I become a millionaire than him developing a shot.
80% from the line is incredible, maybe he can develop the touch!
Last year I desperately wanted Amen as part of the Durant trade, and I was mad that we got Dillon Brooks instead. Amen still has a ton of upside, but getting Brooks has turned out way better than I could have imagined.
This is how my friends defend me in pick up
Worst shooter in the league
Even Dyson would have taken that shot.
Dude can’t shoot and he might not ever be able to
Houston playing 4 on 5 on offense
I saw way too many people saying before the season that Amen had a good shot at making All NBA this year. Maybe going the OTE route was a mistake?
I don’t see how this is remotely similar to Simmons passing up a wide open layup. Amen passed up an open 3, then saw a 7’6” alien and decided not to challenge him. He’ll have to develop a 3 eventually but I think this was fine.
In his defense, he’s not a jump shooter and he passed off to LITERALLY the most efficient jump shooter in nba history
Lmao he absolutely can’t play like this. Bro looked at Wemby and should’ve just turned around and said coach get me out of the game
That was a crazy game to watch. Thompson was so integral to their success in the first 3 quarters with his hustle play and his defense. He was taking shots and missing them, but at least he was shooting. Fast forward to the fourth quarter, and he became allergic to the ball on offense. Missed a few easy layups, too. I literally compared him to Ben Simmons down the stretch. The Spurs were playing 5-on-4.
While Thompson needs to perform better here, this really was a failure on the coach. They did not adjust. Didn’t move him to the dunker spot. Didn’t sub him out. No adjustments, just the same actions over and over, leaving the team to flounder.
3 sec in the paint for wemby
This isn’t egregious at all. He’s not going to challenge Wemby and sets Durant up for a solid look.
The clip conveniently leaves out the 27 points scored. Yeah he should just shoot that shot and get better at making them. His NET and +/- ratings are still in the top 5% of the league
At least try… YOU ARE OPEN
With no disrespect to Ben or Amen, Amen had a bad night against a new defensive feature involving Wemby, playing for a team potentially out of position, that’s missing keys players and players playing banged up. Feel like the lexicon for a “Bill Simmons” needs a broader sample size and lower TS%. And potentially include a conspiracy about his had dominance.
What else was he supposed to do run straight into wemby? He made the right play kd was supposed to hit him on the roll
How do you make it to the NBA without an ultra confident 1-2 pull up
You got to the NBA by playing in the OTE league where a 1-2 pull up might just be extinct
This is embarrassing for perimeter player in the league.
Woof I just looked at the numbers and he’s shooting 19% from 3
Hardly
Rockets need to trade him and picks for Giannis before every other GM figures out the Thompson Bros are Ben Simmons-esque.
He did a Draymond Green
One of the reasons why I didn’t think Durant was good for Houston was because of this—when he’s on the court, you’re naturally inclined to defer. Thompson’s growth will be stunted for a time.
You will not catch one of the brick bros shooting the ball outside ten feet
Definitely not a Ben Simmons. Ben passed up layups, this was a jump shot. More Russell Westbrook than Ben
The point still stands but it’s a bit different when it’s Wemby vs. Trae Young
To be fair Wemby was guarding him. If Amen decided to shoot he might have been blocked.
It’s not like there was a 7 6” alien standing in the paint. I wonder why he try to shoot it ahha
The only problem with that play is he didn’t set a good screen.
Do you think the rockets are better off with Amen shooting jumpers when he can set up KD? Draymond pulls this all the time, and it makes the Warriors better.
wemby was in the paint what do you want him to do
NO BAG
I see Ausar do this so much that I didn’t even notice what the problem was
Anthony black might be the 2nd best player from that draft
Yall told me this man was better than Scottie Barnes lmao
I mean yeah he should have taken the wipe open shot, but I wouldn’t call this a “Ben Simmons” that dude literally had the ball under the rim with no one there and passed it out, which is so much worse
He Britta’d it.
Worst thing you could do..just shoot a brick and give your team a chance for a rebound
This shit is untenable in the playoffs
at least he is willing to shoot. but he knows a contested shot over a double team from KD is better than him.
Disagree that it’s a ben simmons. He wasn’t at point blank range. Saw wemby and he said “nah” which is a good decision.
Ben simmons, we’re good, we have amen thompson now
At least the closest person to him was Wemby and not Trae Young!
Wemby effect
pathetic
They should just make Eason the pick and roll guy for Durant at least he can shoot the three
Not quite a Ben Simmons because he was probably going to miss, and he actually made the optimal play given his skillset.
That being said, being able to guard him like that limits his offensive impact tremendously.
I think this only worked for the Spurs because Castle guarded Sengun and Durant well and Wemby is just unreal. I wonder which other teams can do this.
lol. if you’re scared of 3s, just take a 2. jeez
I understand that NBA defenders make every shot difficult and theres no such thing as an easy shot when you’re guarded. And I acknowledge that none of us could ever really do much in an NBA game, but it is completely unacceptable for someone who gets paid millions of dollars to do quite literally nothing but basketball to not be able to at least put up a shot in this situation. That is a pre-game warmup shot without a defender in sight. You could take the average high school hooper and put them on the NBA 3 point line and they could at least hit rim given a shot like this. Am I supposed to believe that he doesn’t practice taking some 3’s at any point? Not even in an empty gym just shooting around?
If Amen Thompson doesn’t develop a shot. Then he’s basically Ben Simmons 2.0
Or route 2 he goes the Josh giddy route.
Yeah this is poison. If he doesn’t improve this by next season, he’ll become a net negative sooner rather than later
It’s really not even close
Looks like we found the new Jalen Green scapegoat for the Rockets problems
Yep, that’s Ben takes a dribble instead of shooting and doesn’t even set a screen for the actual shooter.
Is he still on his rookie contract or has he signed a max/supermax yet?
Good clip, bad title. Wemby is standing in the paint. When Simmons did it it was Trae Young who was “protecting” the rim.
Well he had a good career while it lasted
Amen, not willing to put up a prayer? Change ya name!!
Yes/no
Its not a shot he should take.
Why is he allergic from the 3pt line?
It is pretty funny but we see players do this with wembenyama all the time
He scared to shoot like Ben Simmons. We just checked the stats
Crazy to me these dudes make millions of dollars to play a sport where you throw a ball into a hoop but can’t throw said ball into said hoop.
Tbh I thought you meant he had a wide open lane to undercut someone at the rim and just froze up.
He had the under on himself 😂
Did that about 5 times that game. Low confidence or work ethic but def. one of them
You never want to pull a “Ben Simmons”.
Somebody’s gonna be shooting a LOT of jumpers in this off season.
Amen Thompson was definitely shaving points
His other games….he ignores the calls for passes and drives it in.
I pray he never hits a three..I can keep cashing that straight bet…
“Let him shoot”
Spurs broke thompson
He gets too much respect for the level of shooter he is. It’s time for defenders to completely ignore him
Lol he’s been found out.
He can’t shoot for shit.
Fake NBA player.
😂