Strong-Specialist-73 | Raptors

542 | 6 hours ago

Talk about being ahead of your time.

TargetGuyJohn | Grizzlies

362 | 6 hours ago

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/darrin-fitzgerald-1.html

True.

And the only player I’ve seen whose averages went down when shown Per 40.

What an outlier!!!

whitedawg | DET

72 | 4 hours ago

He led the country in eFG% as a 5’9” guard. You would think some people would’ve caught onto how efficient the three-point shot is, but they really wouldn’t for another 25 years.

whata-disaster

19 | an hour ago

Which is ridiculous because it’s basic ass math. Making 40% of your 3s is equivalent to shooting 60% from 2. I remember thinking this when I was a child.

whitedawg | DET

8 | an hour ago

Threes are also valuable in so many other ways. There is almost no risk of turning the ball over on a jumpshot attempt, as opposed to a post-up; missed threes deflect further, increasing the chance of offensive rebounds; and three point attempts stretch the defense, giving the offense more room inside.

pgm123 | 76ers

4 | an hour ago

Butler going 12-16 probably didn’t advertise it all the well. It didn’t help that eFG% wasn’t a stat yet.

whitedawg | DET

2 | an hour ago

You’re right that it wasn’t an official stat, but just about anybody could have noticed that he put up a lot of points on relatively few shot attempts.

pgm123 | 76ers

1 | 27 minutes ago

This is the NBA and not college, but even as late as the mid-2000s, people criticized the FG% of 3-point shooters. There was a mantra of live by the 3, die by the 3. There was a pretty common belief a missed 3 was worse than a missed 2. That is to say that some probably noticed, but it was probably easy to dismiss because of the team record.

JeffFromTheBible

3 | 41 minutes ago

Not if you’ve ever interacted with a college coach

Aus2au | Spurs

1 | 7 minutes ago

Ironic considering we’re talking about college basketball here.

You’d think there would be someone around the place that could crunch the numbers.

Pickleskennedy1

69 | 6 hours ago

Thanks, posted the wrong link initially. Truly crazy numbers though

TargetGuyJohn | Grizzlies

22 | 5 hours ago

You can tell from his profile pic that he was from the future.

sorendiz | HOU

45 | 5 hours ago

And the only player I’ve seen whose averages went down when shown Per 40

wilt would be the other obvious case for that, since it’s just a different way of saying ‘a player who averages more than 40 minutes per game’

Pickleskennedy1

28 | 4 hours ago

It’s crazier in the college game because it’s 40 minutes

reptheevt | SEA

203 | 5 hours ago

He averaged 40.2 minutes a game? I assume college ball was still playing 40 min games at that point. Thats Wilt-like.

corpuscular7357

67 | 4 hours ago

Bro played 40.2 out of 40 minutes a game and didn’t even lead the NCAA.

Kdawgmcnasty69

1 | 23 minutes ago

Overtime could play a factor

E1nhar_Frey

150 | 5 hours ago

Reminds me of all those offseason post like “could average person play in nba if he had 70% 3pt?”

OKC2023champs | Thunder

59 | 5 hours ago

But could LeBron play if he had to wear sandals

unskilledtf2 | SAS

14 | 4 hours ago

deep cut at this point

xXEliteEater500Xx

6 | 2 hours ago

Can he do it against 5’5 Shaq

DollaradoCREAMs | Nuggets

115 | 5 hours ago

This is honestly such a wild stat. Imagine how much the Butler old heads hated watching it lol. Like a completely different game.

PranavJH | Warriors

40 | 5 hours ago

Imagine all of them instinctively running back on defense inside the line only to see the guy stop at the 3pt line and shoot the most open shots lmao

hurricanecj

93 | 5 hours ago

The 5’9” G from the Midwestern College Conference didn’t get a look from the NBA in the 80s? SHOCKING.

You were allowed to literally hold an offensive players as a defender. As such, a ton of 6-2-6-4” G disappointed their draft position. It was not a time for undersized guards.

Pickleskennedy1

62 | 5 hours ago

That was the era of Bogues and Webb

hurricanecj

29 | 5 hours ago

Neither of whom avg 8ppg in the 80s.

Rice_Krispie | Kings

28 | 5 hours ago

Check out 5’10” Michael Adams. He even led in 3PA for a few seasons

nuffinimportant

12 | 4 hours ago

Great counter. Thank you

hurricanecj

2 | 4 hours ago

I was there. Adams led the worst team in the league (worst by 4 games and a full SD worse than any other team with a -10.31 SRS. He led the league in 3pt FGA by > 30% (Vern Maxwell shot 6.2/ and he was 8.5).

You would think that playing faster (they played at more than 10 possessions more per game than any other team) and shooting more 3s would be a good thing. It was not. He led the league in attempts by 30% while shooting .296 from 3. Thats a Giannis %. They also gave up 130.8 points per game. 36 years later, that’s the worst ever by 7.8 points a game.

So yeah, inefficient chucker on the worst defense ever as a high bar for undersized guards.

Rice_Krispie | Kings

11 | 3 hours ago

This is pretty disingenuous since you are cherry picking the single worst season to define that whole era. They were over .500 his prior three seasons before that season and they were even 54-28 during 87-88. He also shot 37>36>37% from the three those seasons, which is pretty solid given it was the 80s, while leading the league in attempts.

hurricanecj

-1 | an hour ago

I’m cherry picking? He was a career 33.2% 3pt shooter. And shot >>>>>>> any one else in that time frame.

And yeah, they were better with Fat Lever and Lex English leading the squad. It was when they gave him the keys that things went sideways.

Pickleskennedy1

29 | 5 hours ago

They were young but had their success a few years later. Even Isiah Thomas was the second best PG at the time and was probably less than 6’ without shoes. I’m just saying shorter players could have success

cabose12 | Celtics

1 | 3 hours ago

Hardly an era when it’s two players who collectively were never all-stars lmao

They were also pound for pound some of the biggest athletic freaks to play in the league. Just because they had some success hardly means anyone can. It’s like saying any seven footer should handle the ball and shoot from 30+ because Wemby can do it

Pickleskennedy1

3 | 3 hours ago

They were 5’3 and 5’7, both very generously listed. For Muggsy there was definitely a year or two when he had an argument

I wasn’t saying that they dominated that’s a misinterpretation. But they were good and effective despite both being substantially smaller

cabose12 | Celtics

1 | 3 hours ago

I’m aware they were short, my point is that you’re pointing to two outliers for why this guy could’ve played

The amount of physical traits these Muggsy and Spud had to play despite their height is not at all something you can apply to just anyone

Pickleskennedy1

1 | 3 hours ago

For sure. Michael Adams and Isiah Thomas have also been mentioned in the thread along with those two. I’ll throw in Tiny Archibald as another all-star PG from the early 80s on a championship team who was very successful. Calvin Murphy, etc

MitchLGC

82 | 6 hours ago

I wonder what corporate job he’s working now

boozinf | CLE

32 | 5 hours ago

outside sales at initech.ai

TheGoddamnSpiderman | WAS

37 | 3 hours ago

Darrin Fitzgerald was the second leading scorer in the City of Indianapolis his senior year at Indianapolis Washington in 1983 averaging 22 points per game. He was All-Metro, All-State Honorable Mention and team MVP. Fitzgerald also was an All-State defensive back in football in 1982. After his time at Indianapolis Washington, Fitzgerald went on to Butler where he graduated in 1987. Fitzgerald holds Butler’s all time single game scoring record with 54 points and 12 three point field goals made, and is 3rd all time in career scoring. Seventh all time in career assists, Fitzgerald is inducted into the Butler Athletic Hall of Fame, and later worked at Chrysler Corporation from 1989-2009.

https://sports.yahoo.com/indiana-basketball-hall-fame-announces-045900203.html

Per this story about his old teammate’s suicide

Fitzgerald lost contact with his close friend after graduation. Chad went overseas, but Fitzgerald already had a young child and decided to take a job at the old Chrysler plant in Indianapolis. He said he still sometimes wonders if Chad’s suicide would have turned out differently if they had stayed in touch.

https://madisonmanor.co.za/blog/chad-tucker-obituary/

and the top comment on a Facebook post

Played against both of them and then worked with Fitzgerald at Chrysler foundry

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2281650955443844/posts/4143261272616127/

I think it was a factory job, but he’s probably retired now

Also this is from 13 years ago but seems like he didn’t stop playing ball https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCC6IhfnB5Y

ManBeSerious | Clippers

9 | an hour ago

crazy research

National-Fold-2375 | United States

2 | 4 hours ago

Right hand man of Peter Thiel probably

jtgill02 | Thunder

70 | 5 hours ago

It’s truly crazy how long it took the NBA to fully embrace the 3 point line. Kerr is the all time percentage leader and only averaged 1.8 attempts per game for his career

Abstract__Nonsense | Celtics

26 | 4 hours ago

It’s true, the math on it is so simple. Just shows how resistant to change and resistant to analytics the league was for so long.

MikeJeffriesPA | Raptors

27 | 4 hours ago

Back in 2005-07, I was a student-assistant coach at my university (small school in Ontario, Canada). I remember listening to one of the assistant coaches (a real one, not a student one) talking about how three-point shooting was the future of the game, and specifically “If you shoot 50% on 2s, I only need to shoot 33% on 3s to match you.”

I thought he was nuts at the time, but dang if he wasn’t prescient.

Also, he along with the head coach I worked for went on to form UPLAY Canada and went on to coach SGA, RJ Barrett, etc. So yeah, he knew his stuff.

Funny-Homework

12 | 3 hours ago

The early 2000s is when I really started getting into the NBA, and even then my dad (who has followed the NBA since the 60s) would always complain that when guys take long 2’s, like 20ft out, how it’s the worst shot due to its difficulty and still only being worth 2. It seemed so obvious to us back then.

Walter30573 | NBA

10 | 3 hours ago

I think a lot of people looked at the game from a possession to possession framework, rather than the more holistic approach we have now.

Like, an open long 2 is a better shot if you only care about scoring on that specific possession. You’re closer to the basket and your FG% should be better. You’re going to brick more shots shooting 3s, especially back then, but we accept that now because in the long run it should lead to higher scoring and we’re expecting teams to shoot 30 3s a game.

MariusMaximus88

3 | an hour ago

That was always so wild to me. I could understand why coaches and players were hesitant on taking too many threes but I could never understand why so many players took those long-ass twos, especially the ones touching the damn line.

Overall-Palpitation6 | Grizzlies

5 | an hour ago

I remember it would feel like an insane hot streak if a guy made like 3 three-pointers in a game.

FormerlyCinnamonCash | Heat

33 | 4 hours ago

ESPN recently reported that last season, nearly 38% of all shots attempted were from behind the arc, that’s compared to just 16% when the three-point line was adopted in the 1986-87 season.

But there’s one NCAA record that’s as old as the three-point line itself, held by former Butler guard and Indianapolis native Darrin Fitzgerald.

“That’s one thing I don’t think will ever leave me is shooting,” the George Washington High School graduate explained. “My legs may give way on me or my knees may give out on me but shooting becomes natural.”

To be specific, it’s Fitz’s three-point shooting forte that’s made him an NCAA record holder for more than three decades.

College basketball implemented the three-point line just in time for his senior season. Already a long range sharp shooter, he had coach’s blessing to make the most of the newly adopted arc.

“Coach (Joe) Sexson wanted me to take full advantage of the three-pointer,” Fitzgerald said with a smile. “We would design plays to get me in spots that I wanted to shoot at. If you can get three instead of two, the game becomes a lot easier.”

It didn’t become easy without the extra effort.

“I’d practice 1,000 three-pointers after two hours of practice,” Fitzgerald said of his shooting routine. “It was putting in the repetition, so my shot would always be the same when I shot it.”

Fitzgerald sunk 158 three-pointers that season, a record that stood until 2008, when it was broken by Davidson guard and future NBA MVP Steph Curry.

“I am really proud that it is someone like Steph Curry because anyone else I would have felt cheated,” Fitzgerald said.

However his average of 5.6 threes made per game still stands.

“Shooting was my passion, so I take pride in it and I am really proud that it’s still holding.”

Fitzgerald, who still plays a few times a week in leagues around town, enjoys watching players gain appreciation for the three-point game all these yearslater.

tacopower69 | DEN

17 | 5 hours ago

5ft 9, ouch. prob would have made waves in the league if he was 3-4 inches taller

FormerlyCinnamonCash | Heat

10 | 4 hours ago

Fitzgerald took full advantage as he made an NCAA-record 158 threes in a single season (since broken by Stephen Curry in 2007–08), while his 5.64 made threes per game is a still-standing record (the next closest per-game average is a distant 4.96)

theeguyver

7 | 4 hours ago

damn this actually insane

FormerlyCinnamonCash | Heat

5 | 4 hours ago

Oh holdup tho…. Buddy was shooting HS range 3s lol.

INDIANAPOLIS – When Butler’s Darrin Fitzgerald heard the NCAA adopted the 3-point field goal, he wasted little time working on his outside shot.

‘I went out and practiced it two to three hours per day,’ the 5-foot-9, 160-pound senior said. ‘I worked on it in (an Indianapolis) summer league. I knew if I got that shot down it would help me.

Fitzgerald now leads the nation in 3-point field goals and is close to becoming the first player in the country to convert 100 shots from behind the boundary.

‘Lots of our plays give Fitzgerald the chance to come off a double pick to shoot,’ said Rick Sexson, assistant coach. ‘Doing this gives us the ability to catch up quickly.’

Forward Chad Tucker injured his shoulder early in the season, leaving 3-point duties to Fitzgerald. He has made 96 of 211 attempts through 18 games – tops in the nation from behind the 19-foot, 9-inch stripe.

Fitzgerald has attempted 54 more 3-pointers than 2-pointers. His 3-point shot percentage is .455 while his 2-point percentage is .440.

‘I’m comfortable shooting anywhere from around the 3-point line,’ he said. ‘I just shoot it and not try to alter my shot.’

To Fitzgerald, the 3-point shot is a boon to outside shooters.

‘It helps the small man and gets him excited,’ he said. ‘The shot is like a little man’s dunk. I don’t have any different feeling when I make a 3-pointer, though.

’Three points makes the shot a lot more enjoyable. People will ask me how many 3-pointers I plan to make. I try to concentrate on winning, not 3-pointers.’

Fitzgerald, a candidate for the Naismith Award for players under 6 feet, hopes his 3-point prowess attracts NBA scouts.

‘If they see me, they’ll realize I take my shot four or five steps behind the line,’ he said. ‘I’m not conscious of where I’m shooting from – I don’t look down at the line or anything.’

‘The 3-point rule is a good one,’ he added. ‘The line probably should be moved out to 21 (feet), at least. But, right now, I have no complaints.’

FormerlyCinnamonCash | Heat

4 | 4 hours ago

The distance from the basket to the three-point line varies by competition level: in the National Basketball Association (NBA) the arc is 23 feet 9 inches (7.24 m) from the center of the basket; in the International Basketball Federation (FIBA), the Women’s National Basketball Association (WNBA), the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) (all divisions), and the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics (NAIA), the arc is 6.75 m (22 ft 1.75 in) from the center of the basket; and in the National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) the arc is 19 ft 9 in (6.02 m) from the center of the basket. Every three-point line becomes parallel to each sideline at the points where each arc is a specified distance from the sideline.

In both the NBA and WNBA, this distance is 3 feet (0.91 m) from the sideline; as a result, the distance from the center of the basket gradually decreases to a minimum of 22 feet (6.7 m). FIBA specifies the arc’s minimum distance from the sideline as 0.9 meters (2 ft 11 in), resulting in a minimum distance from the center of the basket of 6.6 meters (21 ft 8 in). The NCAA and NAIA arc is the same distance from the center of the basket as the FIBA arc, but is 3 feet 4 inches (1.02 m) from each sideline because the North American court is slightly wider than the FIBA court.

Mental-Bit | 76ers

10 | 4 hours ago

Curry broke his makes record from the same distance

FormerlyCinnamonCash | Heat

6 | 4 hours ago

Damn….you right. We’re going to start a dialogue Charles Barkley meme

In 2007, the NCAA lengthened the men’s distance by a foot to 20 ft 9 in (6.32 m), effective with the 2008–09 season, and the women’s line was moved to match the men’s in 2011–12. The NFHS, along with elementary and middle schools, adopted a 19 ft 9 in (6.02 m) line nationally in 1987, a year after the NCAA. The NCAA experimented with the 6.75 m (22 ft 1+³⁄₄ in) FIBA three-point line distance in the National Invitation Tournament (NIT) in 2018 and 2019, then adopted that distance for all men’s play with a phased conversion that began with Division I in the 2019–20 season

DownvoteDaemon

5 | 6 hours ago

Big, if true.

ForneauCosmique | Spurs

1 | 6 hours ago

I gotta ask AI real quick

bigmedallas

3 | 5 hours ago

19 feet 9 inches in 1987, 23 feet 9 inches at the top of the arc and 22 feet at the corners in the NBA today, so apples to oranges.

FormerlyCinnamonCash | Heat

3 | 4 hours ago

At 5’9 too

FantasticChemical161

3 | 4 hours ago

Stop trying to Fitz in or Fitz out

Blutarg | Pistons

3 | 2 hours ago

Wow, that’s amazing. What a bit of lost history!

Jec1027 | Warriors

2 | 5 hours ago

missed out on a generational talent smh

Kyro_Official_ | Raptors

2 | 4 hours ago

Wtf, thats actually insane

Nbaaremyfriends

2 | 2 hours ago

insane

unstablegenius000

1 | 43 minutes ago

Was the NCAA 3 point line the same distance as the NBA at the time?

Pickleskennedy1

1 | 28 minutes ago

No, but it was the same distance in college from 87-08

In 1987, the first year college basketball had a three point line, Butler’s Darrin Fitzgerald hit 5.6 per game a figure that has never been reached again in the NCAA or NBA, and more than any NBA TEAM averaged that year. He never got a chance in the league, and that’s where his career ended