Oh thank god, here I was thinking this whole time he was a bad person or something

CP3 >>> CP32

He did not just “get a 12-year-old pregnant”, he *raped* a 12-year-old

Sharon, with all due respect that pedophile scored 36,000 points

I absolutely loved the Jazz growing up. They were my favorite team easily and Stockton was always my favorite player just ahead of Malone. I lived in New England too so it was a little strange but I digress.

Certainly was a shit time finding out one of my childhood sports heroes on my favorite nba team was a disgusting human being with Malone. Then it was doubly shit finding out about Stockton’s political/personal beliefs and views over the past decade.

I chose wrong (x2).

Insert meme Not gonna lie…they had us in the first half!

??? She was literally 13. Not that it really matters but a weird thing to lie about for upvotes. She got pregnant at 13 and gave birth 9 months later while still 13.

So what, its fine as long as she doesnt get pregnant? Wtf dude

/s

Makes him seem almost presidential.

The gap of Q scores between Kobe, an admitted Rapist, and Karl Malone, a Child Rapist, on this sub is an interesting phenomena.

Nah she was 13 when Malone raped her, not that it makes it better or anything

At least they weren’t a teenager right

Don’t forget he ignored the kid until he made it to the NFL and thankfully the kid said no to Karl.

I think Bill Simmons focused on the on-court. He ranked Malone 18 overall. Charles 19, Baylor 15.

IMO most NBA fans are very fair regarding Malone. I always see him ranked between 13-20 whenever I see top 20 lists which is generally around where he should be ranked given his accolades and level of play.

I know everyone hates him, but he’s still a top 20 or at worst, top 25 player of all time, whether people want to put him there or not.

If it helps people dislike his on-court game, Karl Malone has the biggest drop in career FG% from the regular season to the playoffs of any all-time great that I’m aware of. It plummeted 10.3%, from .516 down to .463.

My answer before opening the thread was Karl Malone.

I think it’s certainly him. You can’t talk basketball when it comes to Malone on the internet though, especially reddit.

So whatever.

I try to be objective about it. He’s clearly one of the best players of all time but also a huge piece of shit.

Beyond that, he was not good at adapting his game in the playoffs, when shit got complicated. He did the same thing nigh in, night out, and if it it didn’t work against the defensive scheme he kept his game the same as his team lost.

Judging him purely as a player, his long term consistency over the regular season was fucking insane. He actually reminds me of Harden a bit- the only thing missing from his career resume is a big playoff run with iconic performances.

I was thinking this too 😔 was looking for Matrix but then remembered he won one with the Mavs!

Suns are easily the most accomplished franchise that doesn’t have a ring, hoping it happens soon for y’all.

Some franchises are just garbage and never win anything. The Clippers for example.

The Suns get very close many times but fall short. It’s even more heartbreaking.

3 in the top ten let’s gooo

Russ & Harden definitely deserve to be up there. Both made the finals together and almost sneaked another appearance in themselves, both got taken down by the same team in heartbreaking style.

AI is def a guy that gets bonus points in our brain from being cool as fuck

Would be KD if he didn’t join up with Steph

I will take Nash, he is perfect for today’s game. Chuck would look even more like a chucker, then he was when he played.

My favorite Nate Thurmond lore is him being Lebrons dad

Very cool list. I’d pick Barkley as the best to start a team with.

Only if you could make Chuck not be Chuck somehow. Otherwise, CP3 easily.

If I’m starting the team in today’s game I’d love to take TMac, despite being a ways down the list. So much size and shooting with some good defensive tools for switching on the pick-and-roll. But Barkley is a beast!

For the hell of it I ran his numbers and he would work out to 375 points which would put him 2nd on this list.

This but unironically.

3rd Team = 3x

24 total points. Highest MVP finish was 13th.

He had a weird career in that he really didn’t get that many accolades. 5 x AS and 3x All-3rd Team in his 18 year career and that’s it.

But he was one of the few players whose numbers went up come playoff time and he has a lot of memorable moments. Made the Top 75 team but also never won a title.

Same I often argue Reggie as in my top 5 to never win a ring!

Consistently good, basically never great in the regular season. All time shooter who was only a good scorer.

Does Chris Paul really have 9x all Defenses? Crazy stat.

1. Defense matters

2. This list really rewards longevity and peak duration rather than peak height. But #1-3 were also pretty darn good.

Based on peak he definitely is in my biased opinion. His run from like 2016 till his hamstring injury with the Nets was one of the best amongst players who haven’t won a championship

The points system is based on awards which are based on how well liked a player is by the media and fans. Harden being this high despite being hated throughout his career is a testament to his ability.

I still think CP3 has an argument for best PG of all time. I’m not saying he’s #1 with a bullet, and I don’t think anyone is, but CP3 has an much of an argument as anyone. I feel like people have already forgotten how fucking good he was n both sides of the ball.

Top 10 MVP = 1x

2nd Team = 1x

3rd Team = 1x

32 points in total.

Yeah, and Stockton kinda sucks, too. That’s a real 1-2 punch bummer.

Barkley was definitely the best in his prime, but this list greatly benefits longevity.

I definitely think of Barkley as the best in my subjective view. There are fine arguments for others, even without a detailed system like the OP has going here, but there was just something about Charles. Very unique force,

Oooh, 12 years. Malone is a fan

I dunno if Luka has an MVP in him much less 2 unless the Lakers or whatever team he’s on turn it around and he tries even 10% harder on defense.

I would agree with you if Luka wasn’t on the Lakers.

honestly a very strange stat. karl malone’s second place finish in 1998 (0.726 mvp shares) is more valuable for it than the next year, when he won (0.701)

Because even this list has bias

He could have had an even longer career if he hadn’t suffered that knee injury in 2004, too

He also never got the proper amount of support he should’ve had.

Stockton was great but he was never a reliable 2nd option. Then, Hornacek was already past his prime by the time he got to the Jazz.

Same with Dominique. Kind of a Dr. J/Giannis of his era but he had no legitimate help

Thank you Pete! I decided against the statistical leaders just because I feel like if you were a scoring champ or block leader that would have been factored into your placing on the All NBA or All Defensive teams - but your point is well made!

Nice system and I agree with most of it (sort of), but you probably should’ve included Olympic medals (would help Melo that people are complaining about)

This would be wildly biased towards American players. If I were somehow selected, I could win an Olympic gold medal playing for Team USA – as long as I didn’t have the misfortune of playing for Tim Duncan’s squad, that impossibly got blown out by Puerto Rico.

You could just use the MVP share values that basketball reference has and apply some multiplier. Also all nba first team is top 5 guys in the league and DPOY is rarely top 5. Plus a guy who gets DPOY and first team all nba would have a season worth 2x as much as a guy just first team all nba which is just silly. Like saying DPOY+MVP Giannis had twice as good as season as MVP Jokic, he absolutely didnt

Rudy Gobert gonna be top 5 all time with these metrics

Thats a valid take. As for the criteria for this list he wouldn’t register any points - no MVP votes or all NBA teams. That said, he’s probably in his own deserved category of best players to never make an all NBA team, top 10 MVP, etc.

Pretty cool in its own right.

Thank you for calling that out! Luckily I had the numbers right in my spreadsheet so his placement stays the same 👍

I don’t think it does say it all. The 1st team nod has since become position-less. He was the 2nd best player in the league a few of those seasons and so a few of those 2nd team years would have been 1st team under current rules.

West won a ring with Wilt

Thanks! Barkley has been the most popular personal pick from just browsing the comments and I totally get it.

Other frequently named players were Harden and Westbrook who were shafted by Curry and Bron so the logic definitely tracks.

Yes, but it’s forever and always fuck Karl Malone.

I would love to but that’s out of my area of my expertise. I just chopped this up in excel.

There are people in this comment section saying defensive awards should be worth more, but it’s Gobert’s placement that made me lower the point totals for defensive awards lol I agree with you.

Fuck Karl Malone indeed 🤝.

Yeah you’re right. That’s why I call that out specifically in the post. There is no right way of doing this, but for me personally I do value longevity in team building. I want a guy with 5 top 10 MVP finishes over one with 3 top 5 finishes. That equals a greater window to win in my mind.

That said, it’s fun to have these arguments and I see where you’re coming from.

Elgin Baylor. He never played in the Olympics and his college team got to the national championship game once, but lost. He never even won a conference championship because Seattle was independent at the time.

Im sure there’s someone better who fits your bill but Chris Webber comes to mind first 

Primary reason was for convenience when I was doing this, but also in a practical sense and in my personal opinion, I’m more concerned with your placement as a top 15 player overall than whether you’re a top 10 or top 5 defensive player. I also feel like if I made 2nd Team All Defense worth 4 or 2 points, it would have minimal impacts on the overall outcome.

One of the best players to have never won a ring or an MVP. No matter how you look at it, he’s on the short list of both of those unfortunate conversations.

Because of the all defensive teams

🙇‍♂️

Me too man, me too. I thought he had 4 or 5 top 10 MVP finishes and 2 or 3 first team selections. Not the case.

I remembering reading that section of his book lol good for Bill. Forever and always, fuck Karl Malone.