lets_talk_basketball

311 | 8 hours ago

I remember Zach Lowe was saying their goal should be something like 6-9 lol

libertydabbing | OKC

213 | 8 hours ago

Still possible tbf

DungeonsAndUnions | Knicks

48 | 8 hours ago

nice

biggargamel | Nuggets

32 | 6 hours ago

Before this year the nuggets were basically the worst team of all time every second jokic wasnt on the court. None of us were expecting this. Peyton Watson unlocked beast mode.

SolarBum | Nuggets

-6 | 4 hours ago

They were still solidly negative without him on the court this year, too. We lost a bunch of games this year with Jokic in the positive.

They definitely powered up as soon as he got hurt, though.

Erigion | Washington Bullets

22 | 5 hours ago

I think he also said that the Denver coaches/front office people he spoke with told him they would have been very disappointed if they ended up with that record without Jokic. Seems like the team definitely believed they’d be able to survive without their best player, and it turned out their belief was correct.

Rrmack | Nuggets

14 | 5 hours ago

I mean so was the nuggets sub

attentionyou | Gran Destino

14 | 4 hours ago

I thought they would win 3 games lol I know people are going to come back with receipts after January and fair enough, go ahead and roast me

calmrain | Lakers

7 | 3 hours ago

Nah, it’s super rare for people to be upfront like this. After dealing with assholes on this app, seeing a comment like this is wildly refreshing, if not a bit shocking lol

purplenyellowrose909 | Timberwolves

13 | 7 hours ago

That would have let them hold the 4 seed to be fair. I’m sure they’re very happy jumping SA instead

jdorje | Nuggets

8 | 4 hours ago

Common sentiment among nuggets fans and talking heads was that staying out of the play in would be a pretty good outcome. Keep in mind this is after the zeroth game, where Jokic went out in a tie game and we lost by 20 to the Heat (record is 6-4 not 6-3 imo). Everything changed next game when Jamal and the team came out obviously expecting to win and did…but that’s the game Jonas was hurt in. The other biggest moment was against the Sixers where Jamal got a rest day and Jalen Pickett lead us to victory.

itsnotyellowfever | MEM

3 | 3 hours ago

When Jokic went down it was pretty clear that Adelman viewed every game as house money until he came back and he was more free in his experimentation - allowing Holmes to finally see the court, allowing P-Wat to develop self-creation, giving a longer leash to Nnaji and Pickett, etc.

The more they won the more they could expect quality basketball without Jokic on the court instead of it being a pleasant surprise.

It sounds harsh to suggest that Jokic going down was a good thing for the team but it did allow them imo to play freer given that with Jokic there’s likely pressure to “not screw it up” because he makes it so that their only paths to losing games are giving up 140 points or the entire team having a cold shooting night.

jdorje | Nuggets

3 | 2 hours ago

Adelman’s development over this period has been pretty crazy too. For starters what you said…he’s basically done things differently at the start of every single game, just playing around with who is available and on what minutes restriction. But then the end of games has varied by matchup and who’s playing well, and he’s hit just about all of those on the money. Then just on the side the coaches have completely turned around our use of challenges…a month ago “Adelman never challenges and when he does we lose” was the mantra, now we’re just making the right two challenges every game it seems.

It’s probably not just Adelman, but the full coaching staff. He has a bunch of young ex-players who are all basically fringe NBA guys of the 2010s who stayed on roster via hard work and knowing the game. Nobody really knew what to make of this group over the offseason, but they’re proving themselves now.

amonkeysbanana | Nuggets

2 | 6 hours ago

Relatable goals

mellted_cheese

2 | 5 hours ago

That’s a great goal.

AashyLarry | MIA

271 | 8 hours ago

Peyton Watson merchants

mufflefuffle | Hawks

70 | 8 hours ago

He’s really really good. Contract year, right?

Apotheosis62 | Nuggets

55 | 7 hours ago

Yeah RFA this year

mufflefuffle | Hawks

37 | 7 hours ago

Yeah, he’s get pa-pa-paid

sloBrodanChillosevic | Supersonics

30 | 7 hours ago

He’s been so good that I kinda expect the Nugs to match whatever they can to keep him. Kroenkes should be ready & willing to go into the tax for a team this good (if it stays healthy & achieves its goal this year).

Aromatic_Goal_1201 | Nuggets

20 | 7 hours ago

They have some flexibility with Valanciunas only 2 mil of 10 guranteed

Braun / cam somewhat tradeable in 2026? Nnaji could be dumped too

rfgrunt | Nuggets

19 | 6 hours ago

Of Nnaji keeps it up he could actually be traded for something. Might be a viable 3 and D who can suddenly also make a lay up.

innerparty45

1 | 2 hours ago

The only saving grace for that contract is that it’s decreasing annually.

Otherwise, he’s again playing badly so I doubt they’ll be able to fetch anything except maybe if they attach him with Cam.

BlueGrovyle | Hawks

2 | 5 hours ago

What, do you think they’re going to cut JV?

Aromatic_Goal_1201 | Nuggets

12 | 5 hours ago

Ya most likely hes going back to europe this summer

If they re sign Watson they’ll have jokic ag cam braun Watson Jamal as core 6.

Then they’ll have Spencer jones, Daron Holmes and pickett as depth guys.

Other salaries would need to be shipped out. JV Strawther nnaji

Apart-Leadership1402 | Lakers

2 | 4 hours ago

Haven’t followed you guys at all, usually i watch some Jokic sometimes because i like him, but i’ve been too tired to watch anything else than the Lakers games this season and he’s out now anyway. A while ago, before JV injury, i saw someone say that you have “the corpse of Jonas Valanciunas”, and i have been wondering that is it an accurate description of his game this season, or was it just something by someone who hates you with passion?

Aromatic_Goal_1201 | Nuggets

3 | 4 hours ago

Valanciunas was great this year before injury.

Anxious_Blueberry_65 | Nuggets

1 | 3 hours ago

Jv is great but i dont like how adelman use him just as a screen guy for murray,imo he’s more than that.

BludFlairUpFam

5 | 7 hours ago

The Nuggets will make whatever trades are needed to keep him. He’s not going anywhere

sloBrodanChillosevic | Supersonics

5 | 6 hours ago

That is what I’m hoping for, their wing rotation is nice this year

BludFlairUpFam

2 | 4 hours ago

Well that might have to be sacrificed a bit depending on how much he gets paid but if this is real he’s the 4th most valuable player on the team anyway with potential to get as high as 3rd

HomeNowWTF

1 | 5 hours ago

Someone is going to give him a LOT of money, I think enough that Denver won’t be able to match. Watson looks like a very good two way player with positional flexibility, which is hard to come by.

Shepher27 | Timberwolves

1 | 4 hours ago

But maybe not by the Nuggets. They’re going to be Expensive

Cap_Silly

6 | 4 hours ago

Mike Malone absolutely wasted two years of Jokic’s prime just for his petty power struggle… It’s hard to grasp…

HectorBananaBread

8 | 3 hours ago

Moach played his role and it’s true he didn’t want to play the young guys but those guys were TOO young to contribute. Facts: if this were two seasons ago, no way Peyton Watson is western conference player of the week. The dude didn’t have a reliable handle, eurostep, or midrange game. He would get out there and get two fouls immediately lol. He’s improved a ton!

Moach was right to fight for veteran additions. We’re seeing the benefits of having a bench comprised of both veterans and three year guys. Not a team that Booth made of zero bench veterans and raw young players.

chris-dempsey |

-6 | 3 hours ago

Your take is incredibly stupid. What more vets did you need? You had Jokic, Murray, AG, and others.

Malone didn’t help Watson develop. Watson worked on his game in the off-season. Then Adelman empowered him and gave him the opportunity to flourish. Even before Jokic’s injury, Adelman was already using Watson as a ball handler.

Malone put the Booth boys in shit line ups. Malone wanted them to fail. Malone was toxic to them. This has been known for a while.

Moach

Cringe as hell

HectorBananaBread

5 | 3 hours ago

I’m assuming you are not a local fan. We called him Moach around here as a term of endearment because the man was well liked and brought this franchise its only championship. You’re too cool to respect another man so cheers to you Mr. Awesome.

To answer your question, “what more vets do you need?” You already answered it for me with your “and others” lol Denver had zero bench for Jokic’s entire career. The non Jokic minutes is a meme at this point. Having Bruce Brown and KCP gave Denver a championship. Losing both those guys meant losing in the playoffs.

Bottom line is Mike Malone didn’t have a team as good as the one Denver has right now. Which includes young players that have really developed. But yes he deserved to be fired for splitting the locker room.

chris-dempsey |

0 | 2 hours ago

Why the hell would you have a term of endearment for a toxic fuck who nearly destroyed your team? You die hard Malone supporters are the weirdest group of people in the world.

Malone didn’t have a team as good as this season because he wanted Booth’s players to fail.

HectorBananaBread

1 | 2 hours ago

Jesus. Is this Calvin Booth’s burner?

In 2022 Calvin Booth inherited a team largely assembled by Tim Connelly. He gets credit for the addition of VETERAN Bruce Brown who would play a key role.

Mike Malone coached that roster to a championship.

For the 2023 season veteran Bruce Brown left in free agency and Booth did not replace him with a veteran. Nuggets struggled with no bench depth or veteran leadership in the non Jokic minutes. Booths young guys were not ready to be key contributors.

For the 2024 season Booth let veteran KCP leave in free agency and reluctantly replaced him with veteran Russell Westbrook. Booth instructed Malone that he was to play Zeke Nnaji, Julian Strawther, Peyton Watson, and Jalen Pickett. Malone believed these guys were too young and green to contribute meaningful minutes. Both would be fired heading into the 2025 playoffs.

Ironically it was veteran Russell Westbrook who would become a key playoff contributor but ultimately the Nuggets would lose to OKC due to multiple injuries resulting in the exposure of Booths - no bench depth - roster.

Point is we are now seeing the Nuggets benefit from veteran signings in addition to young guys being 3+ years in the league. Malone got none of that the last two season.

chris-dempsey |

1 | an hour ago

Booth was a terrible asset manager but he was a great scout. Overall, he helped the team whereas Malone did far more harm than good.

No idea why you people are willing to die for a bully. Malone was a bully. He fucked Zeke up and nearly fucked up Pickett. All because of his big ego. Fuck bullies and fuck Malone.

Diortheking | NBA

177 | 8 hours ago

Dudes that supposedly cant dribble without jokic can somehow win games

Vicentesteb | Timberwolves

91 | 7 hours ago

It shows how much context stats like on/off need. According to that the Nuggets are a bottom 3 team in the league without Jokic but are actually 6-3 without him because they just changed their entire playstyle to suit the players off the floor without Jokic.

NoahsArk19 | Wizards

31 | 6 hours ago

On/off also can take a big hit if your backup is a complete bum. Like if every time Kyle Kuzma went to the bench they replaced him with a 4 year old, his on/off would be crazy good.

Jokics backup has often been absolutely terrible and before Adelman the team basically had no strategy without Jokic in

Misanthrope-_- | Nuggets

3 | 2 hours ago

Right but didn’t he have absurd on/off numbers this season even with JV as his backup?

Hankerpants | Nuggets

29 | 6 hours ago

Confidence and rhythm plays a huge part in this too. When you have a player with such gravity as Jokic, it can be hard for everyone else to get into a rhythm. Having him out means these guys get so much more time with the ball. They can’t rely on Jokic to bail them out. Some players fold, some step up and gain that confidence and play well. Guys like Watson are clearly in that second group.

When Jokic comes back, they’ll get the ball less and their production will drop, but the hope is that they keep some of this improvement.

But maybe the biggest benefit is that now Adelman knows which guys can run the offense and win their minutes, and Adelman is a smart enough coach to actually implement it (unlike Malone who would have been too stubborn). Imagine Watson leading the bench unit and having plus minutes, only for Jokic and the starters to come back in after a break and finish the other team off. Or even better, running full offensive sets with Watson or Murray with Jokic on the floor and his gravity pulling the defense because of his threat? It could be absolutely demoralizing for the other team.

If, and it’s a big if, this goes right, this could be the best thing to happen to the Nuggets in years.

PeopleCallMeSimon

16 | 6 hours ago

Not to mention that some of the teams they have played put up just miserable performances.

The Nuggets vs Celtics game a few days ago was the worst game of basketball i have witnessed.

Against the Mavs both Flagg and AD were injured and Klay couldnt hit the side of a barn.

ruggnuget | Nuggets

13 | 6 hours ago

Ya they have been playing hard on defense…but they havent been good on defense. They are undersized against every team right now and it shows. But they have also had one of the easiest stretches of games this season AND have been playing better than expected.

siegeoftyre | Nuggets

3 | 4 hours ago

Ironically, Jokic’s on-off has literally improved in this stretch that he has been out.

We are winning games despite having a negative net rating. We have a total +/- of -16 in this 9 game stretch (-40 if you add the 2nd half v the Heat)

segson9

2 | 3 hours ago

And some people will say that this shows the team is bad without Jokic. Wins are the only thing that really matters.

chris-dempsey |

3 | 3 hours ago

but are actually 6-3 without him because they just changed their entire playstyle to suit the players off the floor without Jokic.

What a coach is supposed to do unlike whatever the hell Malone was doing

SolarBum | Nuggets

3 | 4 hours ago

It probably doesn’t hurt that teams have barely any tape on these dudes because we’re playing guys who never see the court, and have had to come up with completely new game-plans since we’re now missing all our size.

Sammonov | Nuggets

2 | 3 hours ago

No. The Nuggets have a completely normal on/off without Jokic this year. The bench is 6 points per 100 better than they were last year with Jokic off (before he got injured), because they have better talent.

Weary_Substance_4776

14 | 5 hours ago

All propaganda from Jokic stans

SolarBum | Nuggets

-5 | 4 hours ago

Well, propaganda and also the actual data. But it’s been a cool stretch of outlier games regardless, minus the blowout losses.

drc56 | Knicks

7 | 6 hours ago

Eh similar to the annoying Jokic stans, context matters this way as well.

In January Nuggets average 112 ppg and five up 114 ppg but are 5-3. Their own TS% is down from 63 to 58%. They are definitely better than people expected, but this team isn’t “amazing” or anything.

His lack of supporting cast this year has definitely been overblown, but let’s not pretend this team isn’t significantly worse without him and caught a nice schedule and some lucky breaks. NOP, DAL (who lost Flagg as well). They got trashed by the Hawks and Nets in this stretch as well. They had some punches above their weight again Bucks and Celtics, but their schedule has been easy.

It’s still impressive to score these wins and it’s a huge confidence boost, but I’m not convinced they wouldn’t be simply a .500 team at best without Jokic.

InternationalTop6436

16 | 6 hours ago

Nuggets fan here. A few things:

They had no business beating Philly. Their literal “end of the bench” players shot nearly 50% from three. Definitely a 1 in 100 game.

Dallas shot I think 5-24 from 3 last night. Difficult to lose to a team that does that.

But also, Gordon is looking like himself again and Murray is playing like playoff Murray. And now PWat has developed into a genuine threat and THJ is also contributing on offense in ways the Nuggets haven’t had on their bench probably ever in the Joker era. This isn’t like the Nuggets teams where Jokic has to carry the whole team anymore.

So, to summarize, I think this is easily a playoff team if Gordon/Mal/PWat are healthy, but I don’t think you’re so far off in saying the W-L doesn’t tell the whole story.

SpirituallyAwareDev | Nuggets

12 | 5 hours ago

No one has said he doesnt have a supporting cast this year. Were all quite happy with the added depth this offseason.

drc56 | Knicks

-1 | 5 hours ago

It’s literally been a huge push for his top of MVP

CocoaNinja | Nuggets

10 | 4 hours ago

It absolutely has not been this year, keep up. The main component of his MVP push this year is his quality of play. The entire Nuggets fandom was hyped up this offseason with all of the depth we got. After we traded MPJ for Cam, and then picked up JV, THJ, and BB, nobody in the fandom was complaining about depth or team quality. This isn’t the Facu, Vlatko, Austin Rivers team anymore. We moved on to wondering how we can get rid of Zeke and keep PWat.

drc56 | Knicks

0 | an hour ago

Dudes that supposedly cant dribble without jokic can somehow win games

Has 160+ up votes. It’s still the narrative

gbennett7713 | Nuggets

8 | 5 hours ago

In previous years yeah. Maybe a few idiots are still saying it this year. Any actual nuggets fan will tell you this is by far the deepest team Jokic has ever had around him and also the most in shape Jamal Murray has ever started a season. The top MVP push would have been his averaging a 29 pt triple double

AetherealDe | Lakers

6 | 5 hours ago

I’m not convinced they wouldn’t be simply a .500 team at best without Jokic.

They’re not built to be a team without Jokic, though. Hardaway is assisted on 85% of his baskets, Cam Johnson on 82%, Gordon on 65%, Watson 75%. Teams get off ball weapons to put around a playmaking offensive hub, remove the hub, then we act critical that they arent good without any one to play off of. This nuggets team is for sure not a great team without Jokic, but they have some real depth and Murray is becoming a fully realized second star, I’d kill for some of these guys around Luka. The fact they’re winning at all without him is a testament to the cast

drc56 | Knicks

2 | 5 hours ago

I agree, I was simply counting the hyperbole that people are acting like this is a stacked team with Jokic. They are a good supporting cast, that have showed some good fight in some games, but Jokic is still essential to actually make this team compete vs be average. It’s just they aren’t a dumpster tier team without him.

Milkboy1516 | Bulls

6 | 6 hours ago

Your supporting cast isn’t how many wins without you its how good they are for you. For years they’ve had the worst backup centers in the league. But their team building has always been highly underrated. The whole goal of building a championship team is making a lineup that contends with anyone.

And they’ve always focused the perfect fits for those main 4-6 guys that actually win you a championship. It’s opposite to OKC having Kenrich Williams as their 13th man, while their 4th closer is completely undecided or inconsistent night to night. This year they’re just not tanking with DeAndre Jordan lineups.

syp2207

2 | 5 hours ago

The concept of players being a great fit around a superstar despite not being great by themselves is something more fans need to wrap their heads around. So many teams over the years have been considered to be bad because they didn’t perform well when their star player was out, completely ignoring the fact that those teams are built around that star player. Even teams like the 11 Mavs are thought of as being just Dirk & friends, but that was actually a pretty talented team that just didn’t have a clear number 2.

drc56 | Knicks

2 | 5 hours ago

I don’t disagree. That being said your supporting cast should also be able to carry the ship afloat without you if necessary (foul trouble and injuries exist in the playoff). In previous seasons the Nuggets didn’t have an identity without Jokic, I think this cast has shown they have that and can play with or without him.

Honestly the Nuggets still don’t have a decent backup big during this stretch. Their rotation has basically only one center, Zeke. They have been relying a lot on going small with Gordon.

Again I still think the only way they contend is with Jokic, the team is doing their job without him right now, but they aren’t sniffing anything besides the playin without him.

segson9

0 | 3 hours ago

Every team will be worse without their best player. I don’t think that’s the point. The point is that a lot of people said this team is terrible without Jokic and that just isn’t true.

DrOz30

2 | 6 hours ago

It’s almost like we have a different roster and more importantly a coach who won’t bury a rookie for a mistake

Sammonov | Nuggets

2 | 4 hours ago

Pickett was completely outside the rotation, and we are like a week ¹⁄₂ removed from the coaching staff playing 4 guard lineups with Julian at power forward because they thought that was a better option than Zeke Nnaji stepping foot on the court.

DrOz30

1 | 3 hours ago

What does that have to do with what I said ?

Sammonov | Nuggets

1 | 3 hours ago

“Coach who won’t bury rookies for mistakes”.

DrOz30

1 | 3 hours ago

Well how am I wrong exactly ? It’s the reason Malone lost the locker room lol

Sammonov | Nuggets

2 | 2 hours ago

Who did Malone bury? Zeke and Pickett, who Adelman also buried?

The only “rookie” on this team is Holmes, who needed the entire centre rotation to get injured to see any floor time, in between experimenting with 4 guard lineups because the team literally had no forwards.

DrOz30

1 | an hour ago

Pickett, hartestein, Watson , huff , Naji among others is a special case I won’t blame on him. Remember the Minnesota game ? Arguably the greatest jokic game ever and the whole Westbrook thing ? The problem for him was the he preached accountability but that accountability only applied to the younger guys and it ended up creating resentment in the locker room which ultimately came back to bite him.

Sammonov | Nuggets

1 | an hour ago

Watson played the 13th most minutes in his entire draft class before this year. What are you even talking about?

Pickett was completely out of David Adelmans rotation all year until multiple players go injured.

Part of the reason Malone got fired is that he went to bat for Collin Gillespie over Pickett. And, Calvin Booth sent Collin packing, where he is currently a MIP candidate for Phoenix.

The amount of organizational and fan bandwidth that went towards this guy is so fucking unserious. Imagine Boston going to war over Baylor Scheierman while the fan base spent a year obsessed about his development. It’s complete absurd.

Jeff Huff sucks, I don’t care about him.

Hart is a bad miss. Shit happens. The entire NBA missed on IHeart, after he was here. The Cavs didn’t extend him a qualifying offer and the best deal he was offered was training camp deal by the Clippers. The Clippers ended up letting him go the next year for the corpse of John Wall. Almost any team in the NBA could have had IHeart.

gigglios

1 | 4 hours ago

This year is absolutely different. None of the guys like Watson and co got run last season lol

ComedianFantastic319 | Thunder

138 | 8 hours ago

Jokic is a teammate merchant?

Efficient-Tennis305 | Knicks

44 | 7 hours ago

Yes send him to the knicks for Jordan Clarkson

ComedianFantastic319 | Thunder

5 | 6 hours ago

I am all for trading Jokic to the eastern conference, I would actually welcome it

LxaRe

4 | 6 hours ago

We got to keep west dogfight in fact lets add Giannis as well

zuckitsuckerberg

3 | 7 hours ago

Well take him

tofukawano | Jazz

1 | 7 hours ago

Nuggets would have to sweeten the deal smh

Efficient-Tennis305 | Knicks

2 | 5 hours ago

We add Pacome Dadiet and they add Jamal Murray

TenaciousDeer

2 | 5 hours ago

Ewing theory candidate

SamIAmReddit | Rockets

92 | 7 hours ago

I thought we would take this time to build some space between us and Denver. Looks like I just got the order wrong.

ImGonnaChubbBradley | Nuggets

22 | 4 hours ago

Rockets and are also like 4 games played back of everyone which seems weird since you guys played on opening night.

OUEngineer17 | Nuggets

5 | 4 hours ago

The Lakers are also 3 games behind everyone. Probably means a brutal stretch of back to backs is coming at some point for both teams.

clayfu | Clippers

80 | 7 hours ago

Jokic for mvp. Look how much he inspires his teammates when he’s in street clothes

Easy_Money_40 | Cavaliers

23 | 4 hours ago

Hes in a sexual relationship with Anthony Davis?

MrAnder5on | Raptors

1 | 3 hours ago

I LOVE IT

Portmanteau_that | Hornets

1 | an hour ago

Nooooooooooooo

New_Essay_4869 | Thunder

75 | 8 hours ago

This proves that Jokic is washed. Trade him to OKC for Ousmane Dieng

rounder55 | Celtics

13 | 8 hours ago

Nuggets would owe you another first for taking him off their hands. Plus I don’t think you have any of their picks yet unlike just about every other team

Aromatic_Goal_1201 | Nuggets

13 | 7 hours ago

They have lots of denver picks. Denver traded them a future 1st for Watson actually

rounder55 | Celtics

5 | 7 hours ago

Did not know that but of course they do

They have all the picks

DasOptions | Heat

5 | 8 hours ago

No way Jose. The Heat will trade them Terry Rozier, Italian Duncan Robinson, Kasparus (steal of the draft, allegedly) and Heat legend Dru smith.

It’s not a fair trade but hopefully the nuggets will provider draft compensation

Efficient-Tennis305 | Knicks

3 | 7 hours ago

Trade him for KAT

cagemyelephant_ | Nuggets

62 | 7 hours ago

ADELMAN, you are the COTY

theeternalcowby | Lakers

33 | 7 hours ago

It’s pretty crazy he isn’t getting more hype. How good Denver continues to be with so many injuries all year is really impressive.

RedtheGamer100 | Hornets

8 | 5 hours ago

Because it’s attributed to Jokic

TreyAdell | Celtics

0 | 4 hours ago

As a Jokic Stan and Celtics fan this is the best of both worlds for me. My Cs prove they can be awesome without Tatum and now my Nuggets proving they can be awesome without Joker. Let’s hope we finally get a Cs/Nuggets finals.

Pickleskennedy1

6 | 3 hours ago

At this rate you’ll be a grand wizard in no time

TreyAdell | Celtics

0 | 3 hours ago

??? Is this a KKK joke or something lmao (I’m black btw)

twrs_29 | Thunder

48 | 8 hours ago

Good for the nuggets and their actual fans but it’s funny that Jokic stans whole argument for MVP last year was that the Nuggets would be a 12 seed without him

Coke_ButNotTheDrug | Nuggets

96 | 8 hours ago

I mean last year was a very different roster. Westbrook was our bench. Also a lot of players from last year have taken big leaps, like Watson, Nnaji, and Pickett.

I’m pleasantly surprised at how well we’re doing but I truly don’t think this could’ve been the case last year

twrs_29 | Thunder

35 | 8 hours ago

Yeah no doubt, but it got to the point where guys like Murray and Gordon were being considered as bums. That’s what frazzled my brain

Colorado_designer | Nuggets

29 | 7 hours ago

don’t think anyone said that about AG but after the Olympics a LOT of people said Murray was the worst contract in the league, he was playing that badly

IanicRR | TOR

7 | 6 hours ago

As a Canadian who watched him during the Olympics, Jamal looked absolutely horrific. He was slow, missed basically all of his shots but kept being a blackhole.

I was sure he was cooked because of that injury. I’m so thrilled he’s bounced back so well this year. Shows he locked in on the conditioning side of things because he looks like a completely different player than most of last year.

Colorado_designer | Nuggets

5 | 6 hours ago

he looked beyond cooked that summer and start of last season. it’s amazing how locked in he’s been

No_Story6686

26 | 8 hours ago

it’s just the crazy MVP psychos, you can see it in the NFL this year with Stafford and Maye, people will say anything to try and make a case for their favorites (which is annoying as hell)

sentripetal | Nuggets

1 | 6 hours ago

I mean, you’re describing almost all Internet arguments at this point, and I’m not taking that lightly honestly. Our discourse on this planet as a whole has worsened and become more hyperbolic since the dawn of Internet forums. It’s a huge problem

Excellent_Builder_79 | Nuggets

8 | 7 hours ago

Murray was not as good last year compared to this year. His shooting and playmaking is miles more consistent than last year.

tristvn

8 | 7 hours ago

AG was hurt most of last season

greenwhitehell

6 | 7 hours ago

Don’t think anyone considered Gordon a bum last year, he was awesome. Murray was slandered a lot though, but he did get a max contract and had like a 9-month stretch where he was terrible right in the middle of that - he was mostly bad in the 2024 playoffs, abysmal in the Olympics and started that regular season playing awfully too - which led to a lot of heat. To a lesser extent that same thing is happening to Braun now as well.

RepresentativeAd1965 | Nuggets

3 | 5 hours ago

The AG slander is nonsense. As for Murray though, there is a night and day difference between what he was doing last season vs this season.

fatkamp | Warriors

4 | 6 hours ago

Murray was playing like a bum

He isn’t this year

Gordon was hurt

ruggnuget | Nuggets

1 | 6 hours ago

Different seasons are different and narratives run wild. Overreaction takes tend to overrepresent how people overall actually feel because tepid, nuanced takes dont tend to be as passionate or loud

Weary_Substance_4776

1 | 5 hours ago

The actual clutch players on the nuggets lol

No_Story6686

25 | 8 hours ago

No discredit to Shai’s MVP ( Cause it was deserved) but last year nuggets had a very different bench

Pickleskennedy1

23 | 8 hours ago

But their fourth or fifth best player from last year is averaging 25 in Brooklyn

greenwhitehell

19 | 7 hours ago

He averaged 18 PPG on the last regular season for Denver on slightly higher efficiency, its just a volume difference there. MPJ’s issues in Denver have mostly been in the playoffs, especially any time they had to face an elite defense. Last year he had the injury excuse at least but he absolutely collapsed quite a few times and was regularly benched to end games, even in the title run

Overall_Bid_5973

1 | 4 hours ago

A volume difference, and he’s also not playing with “the best offensive player of all time” which in theory should get him easier shots… overall his true shooting is HIGHER on higher volume.

Dormamue

13 | 8 hours ago

Do you just look at raw stats? MPJ was a mid defender at best and had significant stretches where he could shoot for shit, which is his main thing. This is like looking at JB’s performance now to retroactively talk him up when he was a worse player

Pickleskennedy1

-3 | 8 hours ago

I think both are really good players, JB for a second option and clearly MPJ for a fourth or fifth

No_Story6686

4 | 8 hours ago

That’s true but last year Murray was hurt and playing poorly and our backup center was Sáric, and while I dont think the argument for the MVP is good, I also think last year’s depth was worse

Successful-Sky4411

1 | 7 hours ago

yeah and They’re 13th seed

fatkamp | Warriors

1 | 6 hours ago

So did Cam Thomas

PPG on mediocre teams mean nothing

Pickleskennedy1

5 | 6 hours ago

He’s doing it very efficiently. He’s a great scorer. He’s a tremendous player to be arguably the worst in their starting lineup last year

fatkamp | Warriors

2 | 6 hours ago

He was also injured last year visibly, it’s not a fair comparison at all

Pickleskennedy1

1 | 6 hours ago

In the playoffs, he played 77 regular season games and was relatively healthy for almost the entire season

fatkamp | Warriors

1 | 3 hours ago

Yeah and he was good for the nuggets. This isssue and narratives are from the playoffs

LxaRe

1 | 6 hours ago

He was 3rd most paid and they flipped that contract into Cam, Val, resigned AG and CB whit out going over cap so its definitely better value for denver

SolarBum | Nuggets

1 | 3 hours ago

He’s shooting worse, but shooting more. Any player that goes from a 3rd or 4th option to the 1st option is going to shoot more and score more points per game lol.

Pickleskennedy1

1 | 3 hours ago

He’s averaging 25.7 points on 62.3% true shooting

nullstellensatz1

2 | 6 hours ago

They’ve done this without Valanciunas, Cam, or Braun. This is last year’s team minus MPJ and Braun, plus Hardaway and Brown.

lets_talk_basketball

9 | 8 hours ago

I hate we’ve deduced mvp convos to that. It’s even permeated into football. They did it with Josh Allen last year over Lamar

Diortheking | NBA

8 | 8 hours ago

They will tell you theyve beaten bad teams like 6ers and Celtics lol

IMovedYourCheese | Warriors

2 | 7 hours ago

Not just last year. Been hearing this argument until the day he was injured.

tacopower69 | DEN

3 | 4 hours ago

We probably would have been. Malone didn’t know how to coach without jokic and didn’t like developing the younger guys.

PanthalassaRo | Knicks

1 | 6 hours ago

Jokic got injured in the year when the Nuggets finally built a bench.

SolarBum | Nuggets

1 | 4 hours ago

Last year wasn’t even close to the same roster wtf are you talking about, lol. The Nuggets had the biggest offseason bench acquisitions of any team in the NBA.

Epicdude141 | Nuggets

0 | 6 hours ago

Wait things can change based on player acquisitions, coaching changes and player development?

Outrageous-Maybe-200 | Nuggets

-1 | 6 hours ago

Y r we saying a player with a good team can’t win MvP. Shai literally won last year when the Thunder were blowing out teams without their entire starting 5.

ScarletEyed

-1 | 8 hours ago

U realize the depth was way worse last year right?

Reclaimer879

-4 | 6 hours ago

Why do I keep seeing OKC fans bring this garbage up? Are they the same rosters yes or no? How does this simple logic fail for OKC fans?

Can you think past 5 seconds of thought? I feel like maybe not

0ptionparalysis | Thunder

47 | 6 hours ago

I’ve been saying this since the playoffs last year- Adelman is an excellent coach and the Nugs are in good hands. This stretch just reinforces that.

OUEngineer17 | Nuggets

5 | 4 hours ago

For sure. He’s getting the most out of everyone. A lot of talk about PWat’s offense for good reason, but I’m almost just as surprised with Pickett. Even Zeke is playable now!

Coapaparaco

42 | 8 hours ago

Trade him for Davis -> defense wins championships.

Niceguydan8

19 | 8 hours ago

Time to rename the Ewing Theory to the Jokic Theory, book it!

Ealy-24

14 | 7 hours ago

It’s what happens when you have the goat player, their aura lets the team keep on keeping on without them contributing a thing

Otherwise-Radio-8787

11 | 5 hours ago

Great, I don’t wanna hear any excuses when Jokic comes back

wo_lo_lo | DEN

7 | 7 hours ago

Wins are against the Raptors, 76ers, Celtics, Bucks, Pelicans and Mavs. Not horrible but also not top competition. Happy with 6-3 but not completely surprised. Also lost to Brooklyn and Atlanta in that time.

HolyLiaison | Timberwolves

5 | 5 hours ago

Yeah, the timing of his injury lined up perfectly for you guys really. Easiest part of your schedule by far.

Sweatytubesock

7 | 7 hours ago

The Jokic Theory - but first, our friends Pearl Jam!

99LedBalloons | Timberwolves

7 | 7 hours ago

Yeah what the hell Denver you were supposed to be losing games

Briggity_Brak | Tampa Bay Raptors

5 | 5 hours ago

We need one more win so we can start asking if the Nuggets are better without Jokic.

SolarBum | Nuggets

2 | 3 hours ago

Hey now, the year Emiid won, Embiid missed 16 games and the 76ers had a higher win % those 16 games than when he played. I don’t remember people bringing that shit up at all, or the fact that Philly literally scored more points per game without him, too.

badmonbuddha | Lakers

4 | 7 hours ago

Ewing theory candidate?

TenaciousDeer

1 | 5 hours ago

Candidate? Shoo-in. What has he ever won?

Over-Awareness2428 | Timberwolves

3 | 7 hours ago

Adelman COTY

Acrobatic_Ad_5224

2 | 6 hours ago

Jokic has so much help it’s pretty clear now. Don’t let his fans try to gaslight you otherwise.

Sonic723

1 | an hour ago

Who said he doesn’t have help?

Logansam1986 | Lakers

3 | 6 hours ago

That’s not my MVP

Teghendion

3 | 5 hours ago

It turns out some players play better without the heliocentric system.

Chidi_Ariana_Grande | Timberwolves

5 | 5 hours ago

This is really annoying lol

Confident_Pear_8303

3 | 4 hours ago

Better without him. Losing player. Empty stats…blah blah blah

Tiny-Manner-4911

3 | 6 hours ago

Credit goes to Peyton Watson’s ascension and THJ being the best free agent signing of the summer

hudsonsoft11

2 | 5 hours ago

Fat white dudes’ holocaust

Fit-Strawberry459

3 | 5 hours ago

And missed Jamal for a few of those too. Pickett and Watson have been real surprises.

chronoic

2 | 4 hours ago

Time for the Nuggets to trade Jokic to the Lakers.

Lakers will give your the same trade as they gave Mavs, they will give you Ayton (instead of Davis).

powerboy1928 | Rockets

2 | 4 hours ago

I’ve been saying he’s just no good for that team. He holds them back in so many ways. If I was the Nuggets, I’d trade him to the Rockets for a few second round picks to get value out of him. Ignore my flair

ElGoddamnDorado | Spurs

2 | 4 hours ago

Boy do I hate the West.

DakoftheDead

2 | 4 hours ago

Some MVP

Absoera

1 | 6 hours ago

Tbf these were (mostly) lottery teams they’ve played. But given it included a hellish 7 game road trip, guys were getting sick in addition to the casade of injuries, and the starters who are back aren’t still quite right, MAJOR props to the coaching staff and the team.

Change-Mother

1 | 6 hours ago

They are better without him? Trade Jokic immediately..

Fekhir

1 | 4 hours ago

trade him and build around Peyton Watson…

NihilistPorcupine99 | Vancouver Grizzlies

1 | 3 hours ago

Here come the trade rumors

ballbourbonsmokes

1 | 3 hours ago

MVP my ass ….

LOL

sarcasm

ChefCurryYumYum | Warriors

1 | 2 hours ago

So this means he’s not MVP then?

CyberGoatPsyOps | Lakers

-1 | 7 hours ago

Obviously Nuggets and OKC have all-time teams making Luka 1st in MVP by default.

I said what I said

tyronemartins2

-1 | 6 hours ago

Just trade him away. He was the issue

MelzLife | 76ers

-3 | 7 hours ago

I think objectively the Thunder look worse than the Nugget do without their guy. And yet Jokic’s MVP argument this whole year has been that he’s way more important to his team

Interesting

Successful-Sky4411

18 | 7 hours ago

That’s very weird to say since The Thunder are undefeated without Shae and The nuggets are not.

Awkward_Event1966 | Thunder

-7 | 7 hours ago

Shai has only missed 2 games against bad teams so that’s not even close to a comparable situation.

tolzan | Nuggets

9 | 7 hours ago

Honestly as a Nuggets fan, our fan base is downright shocked at how well we’ve played without Jokic. Including me.

PWat has been incredible. Spencer Jones far exceeding his 2-way status. Jamal best year of his career.

But IDGAF about the tired MVP threads here three times a day, I’d rather just win a championship.

LifeIsToughEatBacon

6 | 7 hours ago

buddy this is literally the first year of his entire career this isn’t the case. stop strawmanning

MelzLife | 76ers

1 | 6 hours ago

His MVP case is for THIS YEAR. So I’m evaluating THIS YEAR. That isn’t a strawman but keep trying to use big words

LifeIsToughEatBacon

0 | 5 hours ago

you dont get to assign his mvp case tho. his mvp case for this year was that he was putting up numbers literally never seen in nba history. leading in almost every category.

LAST years case was that his team was useless without him

SirThixcksAlot

1 | 6 hours ago

Isn’t OKC like 7-1 without Shai the past two seasons?

Sammonov | Nuggets

2 | 4 hours ago

OKC wins their minutes by 6.⁵⁄₁₀₀ when SGA is off the court.

Isabelodelosreyes2

1 | 6 hours ago

this only makes sense if you overlook some real important bits of information. it’s disingenuous to say that 1. the jokic-less nuggets have a deeper team than the sga-less thunder and that 2. despite this, the nuggets fanbase decide to mislead everyone by whining that jok should win mvp because the jokic-less nuggets is 16 bums without him.

As long as you’re looking at things objectively, maybe consider that this overperformance of this new nuggets bench unit has been a historic outlier and a massive surprise to literally every single human person who has ever watched a nuggets game. we have never seen nnaji, watson, tyson, and pickett play this well ever in their careers. We have never even seen murray sustain this level of performance before over this period of time as a #1 option.

and also the jokic plus minus argument was very obviously a popular sentiment only before the bench stepped up the way they did. barring this one singular month where jokic is injured, over his 9 YEARS as an nba player he averages the highest bpm because he leads the team to an advantage, and when he sits down the nuggets immediately dig themselves into a deficit. that has always been the case except for this one month. this has not been the argument the WHOLE year.

The_NGUYENNER | DEN

1 | 6 hours ago

I think objectively

Outrageous-Maybe-200 | Nuggets

1 | 6 hours ago

Y r we saying a player with a good team can’t win MvP. Shai literally won last year when the Thunder were blowing out teams without their entire starting 5.

SolarBum | Nuggets

1 | 3 hours ago

The first game Shai missed they went up by like 40 points and took the gas off to only win by 30 lol. WTF are you even talking about.

SolarBum | Nuggets

1 | 3 hours ago

The Thunder are 2-0 without Shai, and +32 over those two games lol. They are also significantly positive when Shai is off the court in games he’s playing in, unlike the Nuggets who are negative without Jokic in the game, and negative without him on the court.

The Denver Nuggets are now 6-3 since losing Nikola Jokic for an extended period due to injury