[Alan Hahn] cooks Trae Young for his defensive effort: “That’s the face of your franchise”
This is what had Ben Simmons shook 😭
Oh yeah let’s all pile onto the 6’11, 250 Ib, athletic freak of nature for not finishing over Trae ‘literally Rudy Gobert’ Young
Want to know why we’re watching a defensive lowlight of Trae outside the paint? Bc you won’t find any instances of him slacking when he’s defending the rim. Not one. Guys are too fucking scared to drive at him when he’s down low.
Ironically the Hawks are running into the same problem that the 6ers had with Ben. They insist on playing him at point guard when he’s the most natural 5 this league has ever seen
Imagine how much better of a shooter trae would be if he actually shot with the correct hand.
Imagine if Trae Young loved ball
Imagine if Trae Young loved baskets
Underrated post 😂😂
10⁄10 analysis, no notes
I am crying lol
Bro💀
Incredible meme aside, it still blows my mind that Ben Simmons’ career high came against Gobert
He really should’ve emphasized how much that disc injury messed him. Instead now all people remembered is either Trae Young’s ‘lockdown defense’ or Doc threw him under the bus.
And embiid threw him under the bus don’t forget that
Please remind because I don’t think that existed
idk why this is the best vid I can find, but it was well-documented that he was taking shots at simmons for giving up the open layup against trae which led to thybulle going 1-for-1 at the FT line
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeBUKVb285s
Last year Trae was pretty much fully healthy.
Amongst all players who played at least 40 games and 29 minutes, Trae contested the fewest shots per game.
Literally dead last out of the 103 players who qualify.
Trae doesn’t do anything on defense. People on here saying “oh you can make anyone look bad in a single clip” are missing the forest for the trees. Trae has been known as the worst defender in the league for nearly a decade.
Even other guys who are known as really bad defenders like Jordan Poole, Anfernee Simons, and James Harden all literally contested twice as many shots as Trae.
Crazy stat considering he gets attacked every possession
Can’t contest shots if the players just blow by you every time!
Yes, it’s this.
He’s not just inherently bad (small, slightly built, short wingspan), but he also gives a dogshit effort. Contesting shots is literally just “trying a little”.
That’s the thing I find. Look at Patty Mills as a for instance. Little guy for the league, but made his home on a defensively minded team for close to a decade.
Because of the effort. Might have gotten shot over a bunch but he always did his best to be in front of who he was defending. Would get thru or around screens.
Which is a whole lot more than Trae
Mugsy Bouges and Nate Robinson always gave their opponents a fight. Might be small but I’m strong as hell and you’re finna feel it tonight.
(Ay pause lmao)
Saves his energy for offense lol
Trae has been known as the worst defender in the league for nearly a decade.
No way I’m this old.
Fun fact, that draft was 7.5 years ago
7.38 actually
It’s just the one goose actually
Yea I was ready to call bullshit like he was piling on Trae too hard lol.
Come on Trae hasn’t been in the league anywhere near a decade!!!
Oh shit…. Yes he has. It was Trump’s first term when he got drafted.
This is why, for me at least, Trae being bad at defense and Jalen Johnson being bad at defense aren’t the same thing.
Trae is one of the worst in the league, bottom pool. Jalen is bad, but it’s not Trae bad. And I’ve seen Jalen play good defense and believe the right coach can make him do it again.
You can’t have both of them, it’s two bad defenders. But with Jalen out there the Hawks at least had an average defense (though it was obvious they were leaking, mostly because we don’t have a center).
I think Jalen has a usage issue, he can defend better when there isnt so much offensive and transition responsibility on him
100% Agreed
Tree Young
Traffic-Cone Young
Ice Trash
It says a lot that there were several worse plays I assumed the clip was going to be.
Even other guys who are known as really bad defenders like Jordan Poole, Anfernee Simons, and James Harden
This Harden?
Yeah. That Harden
I would rather have 33 year old forward Doug McDermott as my point defender and he is a horrific defender for his career, slow laterally, bad defensive IQ, dies on screens, but he actually tries, and is not as horrible as you’d expect in isolation. That is how bad I think Trae Young is on defense
Dougy McBuckets catching strays
And also, Trae isn’t a good 3 point shooter. His only skill is free throws.
it doesnt help that hes one of the tiniest NBA players in history
He definitely is not
Feel free to sort this by height or weight or whatever. And this is just current players.
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/bio?dir=A&sort=PLAYER_HEIGHT_INCHES
Tbh of you sort by weight he IS 2nd to last. Not an excuse but you can’t say “he definitely is not ” by that metric
But hey, he shoots the three and caresses his shoulders every once in a while so that obviously makes up for all of this
actually the face of the franchise is gonna be dybantsa/peterson/boozer cause of that pelicans pick
Pelicans/Bucks/Hawks, I bet 2 of those teams aren’t making the play ins.
Jalen johnson is literally the face now
Peterson isn’t in the same tier as the other 2 anymore
Best ability is availability and dude hardly plays
Lol dude has one injury . In a short college season and now he’s injury prone .
Cmon now.
Not saying he’s injury prone but not drafting a guy number 1 based off minimal college tape
I’d take Dybantsa but it’s worth noting that Kyrie barely played in college.
And the same for James Wiseman
Don’t hurt me like that
No not like that
Wiseman’s problem wasn’t that he wasn’t available.
I’d argue it was a bigger problem he was available when he was.
kyrie is also injury prone and has never been #1 option on a good team
This is such reddit-tier revisionism that you almost have to applaud it.
Not saying kyrie is bad but when was kyrie a #1 option on a good team though?
17-18 and 18-19 when the Celtics won 55 and 49 games respectively. The rest of his prime was spent with either LeBron or Durant, save the first Brooklyn year when he himself only played 20 games.
I stand corrected. I honestly remember his Boston years as just being injury plagued
buzzwords but you cant refute what im saying
Yep not drafting this guy called Kyrie Irving cuz he played a couple games b4 injury
This bum Darius Garland too is obviously a bust
That’s a dumb reason then.
He could be a #1 pick of his hs tape alone. He’s a 6’6 lead guard.
Let alone looking good in his few college games
Cam stepping up in big time games, AJ getting triple doubles, and you’re drafting…..a guy who looked good in high school?
He’s undoubtedly talented but the other 2 have been far more impressive thus far
Yes a guy who looked good in high school.
Good luck choosing a 6’9 big that can barely dunk .
Yup, because the hops really saved Zion
Luka didn’t have any college tape
People are so dumb.
I have to admit, there’s a wicked humor in a Pelicans fan arguing about next year’s top draft picks.
Best ability is availability
Hey I’m healthy and available, does that make me NBA material?
No? Well then that’s a pretty dumb platitude that Redditors specifically think is so deep
What a silly parallel to try and make.
Any of us would be severely injured by simply participating in NBA intensity practice so that argument still holds up.
Last year the Hawks defense was 5 points stronger when Trae was off the floor.
This year it’s 14 points stronger with Trae off the floor.
Two years ago it was 4 points stronger with no Trae.
Three years ago it was 3 points stronger with no Trae.
Four years ago it was 5 points stronger with no Trae.
I’m not gonna go back through his whole career but I guarantee this pattern continues.
14 is a big problem.
5 is a small, overcomeable problem. He is likely matched up against the opponents starters, and surely you expect him to generate way more than 5 points of extra offense over replacement. (+7.1 this season)
In 2020-21 for example he was +12.4 offense, -5.4 defense. You take that every day of the week and do the best you can with it. +7.1, -14.3 is toughhh
A competent center like Capela lets a team play Trae
You can’t field an NBA team without a legit 5 and no PFs that can defend and also start Trae Young
He has his issues but people pretend like it’s so black and white and he can’t be in the league
I’ve seen nobody say Trae can’t be in the league, what lmao
Insane hyperbole. People have questioned if he can be the #1 on a championship team or if he deserves the max
He hasn’t been the same since the NBA stopped calling the rip though. He hasn’t learned to draw fouls like SGA or Brunson does.
Yeah he’s just not a winning player. You have to build the perfect team around him and it’s probably better for any team to not max him. Def not good for this team to max him.
Too many holes on the team. Lack of a 5. Lack of 3 AND D players.
You have to have both of those to compete with Trae. And then maybe it’ll work. Maybe.
I’m not excusing Trae by any means but I dont think there’s a player in the league that receives a more unproportional amount of hate or responsibility when a team losses. Everyone is well aware the hawks arent winning in correct form or with trae as the best player. I’m pretty sure he isn’t asking them to not get better players so he can continue to be the number 1 option. Trade trae with any PG in the league and this isn’t a winning team and people wouldn’t be saying that player isn’t a winning player..
I actually think castle would be fine there. Harper is also really good and has all the things to do better. Luka would win more. Brunson would win more. Derrick white would probably do better.
None of those players would have the same stats Trae puts up, but the defense would lead to more wins.
Brunson and Luka just score/ create better than Trae. Even if the stats don’t show that. Brunsons shot creation creates better shots for himself vs traes bad threes and missed floaters.
Those are off the top of my head without actually looking at every starting guard in the league.
Not to mention SGA lol.
Comedy. Sure luka could win more but they would still be close the same position. Saying castle Harper and Derrick white would do better is pure bait.
They play better defense and still can move the ball. Castle is good at creating rim shots. He’s a good scorer. But he’d still probably put up near double digit assists.
Harper plays his role this year, but he can also get to the rim whenever. Plus he can also average near double digit assists.
They’re both such good defenders that it makes up for their drop in scoring, tho I think it won’t be that big a deal if they’re the first option.
Every point guard that’s ever played for the spurs would do better than trae
I mean yea… Trae Young in OKC over SGA, you still get a championship contender. Not as good, but they’d be in the mix and people would be talking about how well OKC have built around Trae. Go ahead and downvote me to oblivion, but I fully believe that.
Hell, throw him into Orlando’s current lineup and you might have a pretty interesting team.
He is a highly problematic player- to build a winner around him, the GM has to be flawless. You need every type of player around him.
But at the end of the day he is a monster on offense and you can work with that.
Find me one example of a team having consistent success when their star player makes one aspect of the team worse every single year.
You won’t find it.
I mean Jokic’s on/off drtg has been as bad as 7 in a season he won MVP…
Thats pretty eggregious. He’s just so good at offense that it doesn’t matter.
That’s not how it works. If their team performs 5 points better with him off, that means Trae is so bad that they can’t overcome how bad he is: they lose those minutes by 5 points.
It’s not something you can overcome and that’s why he hawks have been so bad all the time.
I know yall like to blame the coach and the roster and the gm. All of those things are medium reasonable, but your superstar is supposed to elevate the team.
The hawks are in the east and still always bad. Yall have a “superstar” player and yet you’re consistently a bulls level team and they don’t have anyone close to that level.
So maybe yall sell Trae for parts/ young guys and try to do what the bulls are doing, cuz whatever yall are doing with Trae isn’t working. It hasn’t worked except for that one season.
My guess is the owner just wants a name so fans keep coming and buying jerseys. But yall can’t win if you’re -5 with your star player. He’s just not a winning player cuz his defense is that bad.
For your own sake, please educste yourself on how to interpret stats and only after start sharing your nonsense opinions.
5 points is the defence gap not the net. Trae’s main selling point is how he elevates offence bkth by being a sharpshooter but also with his distribution. Check on/off for offence and then talk.
Oh I misread OP. I stand by my statement. He’s not that good of a scorer/ shooter.
Iirc, that ecf year was one of his best regarding shooting and he’s had several recent where it’s bad.
That’s why defense is so important: if you’re having trouble shooting or getting shut down, then you can still impact the game.
But also Trae can’t even play off ball to space or screen or anything.
So if he’s not scoring then maybe he can pass to create? But it’s still not enough to be a max player in the new 2nd apron era. And on that contract he’s not a winning player because of how it limits him.
I still say he’s not a winning player cuz of defense, but that’s a different thing.
That’s not how it works.
I misread it.
Okay. Now let’s go do +/-
In 2020 the nuggets were 7 points stronger with Jokic off the floor.
He won MVP
One year sample. The year before and the year after that season, the Nuggets defense was better with Jokic on the court.
That’s why I listed 5 years for Trae to prove that it’s not just a random luck.
Also Jokic is so much better on offense than Trae. It’s not even comparable. Jokic’s worst season from the last 5 years is better than the of Trae’s entire career by a good margin.
This is a made up stat, Nuggets were not “7 points stronger with Jokic off the floor” in any season he played in. This is easily verifiable, so not sure how the nonsense you posted got so many upvotes.
https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/player/1883/onoff#tab-team_efficiency
It’s about defense. Nuggets defense was 7 points stronger. Makes sense to assume that given the context of the conversation
He presented it in a hater way. “He won MVP”. Making it look like Jokic wasnt winning his minutes like he always does. He has a realistic shot at ending with the highest + in NBA history. Which is crazy considering how much weight he has had to pull. The current leader is Tim Duncan who played with elite roster construction his whole career. Not even Lebron is close and he has played more seasons than anyone.
Jokic already is the career leader in so many on/off statistics too. GOAT.
And he didnt just win MVP. He won three MVPs. And still going. 😂
This is not even true. They were negative with him off the floor and 10.3 points/100 better when he was on
Bruh how does this lie have so many upvotes
He’s obviously referring to the Nuggets defense which was indeed 7 point stronger with Jokic off the floor
I’m looking at PBP stats and I’m seeing different stats
And 0 playoff series wins without Trae.
And 2 playoff series win with him across 8 years. What an awe-inspiring accomplishment.
It’s not like the current three broccoli heads on hawks are any better.
Hawks are playing much better without Trae this year.
3-7 with Trae
12-11 without him
Trae is a bum who gets paid tens of millions of dollars a year and can’t be bothered to try on defense.
Damn you really can’t have young and johnson on the floor at the same time.
Is Johnson a bad defender? His archetype are usually stand out defenders so I just assumed he was good at it.
For the physical tools he has, he’s bad. He didn’t even challenge mikal in the first clip of this video
Yes, it’s a lack of effort issue
I had the same question when he was still up and coming but yeah he’s pretty bad when you’d think he has the tools
He does have the tools, he just doesn’t use them
He was good last year and I think he was better tonight, but his defense fell off a cliff without Clint Capela organizing everyone + picking up the entire offensive load when Trae went down. It really doesn’t help that without KP, we only have one playable center in OO who is undersized, and one playable SF in Risacher who has the shortest leash on the planet cause Quin would rather Vit Kreji and Luke Kennard on the floor for shooting. So all our lineups are undersized, which has made everyone worse. Desperately need KP back or a trade. Relying on KP is disastrous to winning.
Should’ve drafted Sarr
Mfer didn’t even wanna go there and the Hawks listened 😂
Hard to commit on defense when you’re doing everything on offense and rebounding effectively. They also have the personnel to cover for him defensively, guess just not him AND Trae.
It’s sort of like the Deni Avdija situation where increased offensive output comes with declined defense, goes to show how tough being a high caliber two-way player is
Watching Trae for so many years, it impresses me more and more what Brad Stevens did with those Isaiah Thomas Celtics teams. The way he could hide him, like a puzzle piece.
Difference is Thomas actually gave more effort
Also, matchup hunting wasn’t as developed a tactic yet in those years. 2nd and 3rd options didn’t have the green light to iso bad defenders early in the shot clock the way they do now.
He didn’t lol
You can be successful with bad PG defense, you just need great supporting pieces. Brunson has mikal/og, Luka had djj/PJ/lively/gafford, hali has nembhard/neismith/siakam.
Neither of those guys are Trae. Brunson can at least do some things with his strength and low center of gravity. He’ll put up a fight in a post up.
Hali is 6’5” and gets blocks and steals.
Trae is short, skinny, and doesn’t try at essentially any part of defense.
Last year when both guys were fully healthy, Brunson took more than twice as many charges as Trae.
[deleted]
Read the last line of my comment brother
The fact that Trae has been in the league 7 years and hasn’t put on a single pound of muscle is crazy. The Hawks development team should get some blame too.
Fair enough
Hali and Brunson at least put more effort on that end. On top of that and just in general being in the right spots, Brunson is one of the best at taking charges, and Tyrese is quite good at playing passing lanes. Trae brings nothing on defense, has poor effort, and lacks size/strength. Sometimes just putting in effort can significantly mitigate flawed defensive players. It’s why someone like Steph has been able to succeed for this long despite being a weak on ball defender
Agreed. You can win without much adjustment starting a Brunson or Haliburton. I don’t know how you hide what Trae is.
You need an elite defense around him. The only team I could envision is the Rockets. But they probably don’t do it.
Steph is a great team defender we don’t win in 22 if he still has is KD warriors defense
Yea, he might be the hardest superstar to build around in the NBA but it is possible
A team of, say, Trae, Anthony Davis and Brook Lopez from ~5 years ago, and some good 3&Ds is a contender (yes I know- haha, that team will keep the local hospitals busy, this is about player archetypes not realism).
That team can be built with Trae on max, but no it’s not easy to do so. That’s why the Hawks should trade him, I just dont see them getting it right.
Size is the main problem. Its easier to hide bad defenders when you are tall. You really can hide trae
Not sure why this is downvoted. Despite Hawks fans inability to accept this Trae is an another tier of bad compared to Luka Brunson and Hali
He’s the worst defender of them by a decent margin and essentially all metrics support that
Boston had IT
I’m not saying Trae is a great defender but you can find way worse clips of him than a guy who fell down on a screen, which is all I’m seeing here.
Taking like 5 seconds to get off your ass cus you were expecting a foul or thinking they’re gonna score anyways or something is near the bottom from what I’ve seen at least
Literally saw wemby do this last night. Capella just missed the layup after. It’s also the Luka special. Like the guy said, you can find better clips. This happens almost every game.
Just cus other people do this doesn’t mean it’s not a huge lack of effort
It’s also the Luka special.
Yes, a player known for his bad defense and complaining to the refs
you can find better clips
I never said you can’t. I’m saying this is pretty high on the list of bad defensive effort
Who said it isn’t a lack of effort? Y’all do this pile on with players all the time and ignore when players y’all like do the same exact thing. All I’m saying is this is a horrible clip to show how bad his defense is. That could have been any NBA player that played last night.
All I’m saying is this is a horrible clip to show how bad his defense is.
It’s not though
Ok. Based on this one type of clip, everyone is a bad defender then.
Trae has been known as the worst defender in the league for most of the last decade.
It’s like you saw a video of Saddam Hussein littering and your comment was “hey we all get a little lazy sometimes and litter, this guy isn’t that bad.”
If they posted a video of Hitler littering I would also say “Hey this guy has done at lot worse than this example”
Watch the video again and count how long it takes from Trae getting screened to him getting up from the floor. It’s a terrible defensive play. He did not get leveled by a blindside screen. This is textbook horrible defense.
He did not get leveled by a blindside screen. This is textbook horrible defense.
It’s clearly both. JB was moving, stopped, and leaned into Trae as soon as he got close to him. That is a blindside screen, and the lean-in was more than enough force to level him because JB is actually decently stout for his size. That said, Trae gave up on the play.
then they should trade him. hawks been rebuilding the roster yet its always trae this or that. similar to kyler murray/cardinals
They can’t make a trade, because nobody wants him on his current contract. The only upside is that he makes $48 million next year, and that is it. Remember the good old days, when people were debating whether the Hawks made a good trade with the Mavericks…..it basically came out as a trade of Luka Doncic for Trae Young and Cam Reddish. LOL!
Hawks
Its nice to finally feel vindicated after years of getting downvotes for calling Trae massively overrated
Fuckin Sooners
(E: I can say that - I went there)
Trae is a bad defender and I personally think he is everything wrong with the modern NBA, but the dude got knocked on his ass and it took a second for him to get up. This doesn’t seem like an effort issue.
Took a second to get up?? Bro he’s paid $50million per year and you’re making excuses for lazily giving up on the play? My 65 year old aunt got up off the floor quicker than this after slipping on some spilled wine
Agreed. And the knocked down was partially due to his smaller frame. Trae will always have limitations.
Me wondering how the Atlanta Hawks became so destitute that this guy is considered an untouchable pillar of the franchise. And all because Ben Simmons had a mental breakdown five years ago.
I mean he had statistically been one of the best drivers of offense during that time so his defense didn’t really matter because he was still a net positive. But his athleticism has waned so he can’t get by guys without a screen and that also mean he can’t drive and finish anymore so his offense is basically just passing and drawing free throws at this point so he’s no longer a guaranteed top 10 or so offense by himself.
Brutal
You can find clips of every player doing this. I’ve seen MJ hit the floor and not get up and hustle back in-time to prevent a bucket. My glorious GOAT Steph has been slow to get up and get back at times, even in his prime.
If Trae does this more often than most stars, then fine.
Spoiler : he does
Bruh have you not known about Trae before tonight? He’s been around for like 8 years and, yeah, he’s been known as one of the worst defenders in the league pretty much that entire time.
A few weeks ago, someone posted something like the Hawks were averaging a league all-time low defensive rating with him on the floor. Idk how accurate claim that is, but Jesus Christ…
there are plenty clips of Trae giving up on defense and his team . especially in elimination play in games 😂
all game was like this though, the possession immediately before this one he had mikal bridges on the perimeter as his assignment and bridges just walked past him while trae stood there and watched
maybe the worst defensive game I’ve ever seen from him, basically every possession he was doing something wrong and hurting his team
It’s called the benefit of the doubt, and at this point, Trae ain’t got none
He’s not in the same universe as MJ or Steph
People forgot he did the same shit against the Heat in the play in last year. Let Mitchell take multiple open 3s in the clutch
Hawks should have gotten serious and moved on from trae while he had a less obvious ceiling. He’e way too engrained in that org but ATL sports is kind of a deserving clown show anyways
Roll those dice Al
Big possession Hawks down one playing D around the 2-3 minute mark. He gets lost on a switch and it leads to an and 1 for Anunoby. Was very passive on offense, which I get bc he couldn’t hit shots. Turned the ball over late. Rough game Trae
I would pay good money to see how little Nico would take back in a Traed.
He fell…
Someone wake me up when the Hawks, Falcons or Thrashers start being good again.
I forget if it was last year or the year before when hawks fans said his defense really turned a corner and he was just average to slightly below average now.
I never bought it but didn’t watch enough games to really debate.
Those aren’t Hawks fans. They’re Trae dick riding stans. There’s a big difference
The Hawks are actually better without Trae Young.
Will never not make me laugh thinking of all the heat fans that thought we should trade for him. Spo isn’t playing that. Tyler and Duncan were god awful defensively, but at least they tried
Spurs fans were thirsty for him too when we were pg needy two years ago and I couldn’t think of a player Pop would want less.
Doug McDermott is a better defender than Trae
TBH I don’t think he flopped. I think Brunson is built like a brick shithouse and he honestly got knocked down trying to get over the screen. And by the time he got back up there was no way he could recover to get back into the play, he was down at half court for crying out loud.
Obviously Trae’s a minus defender but I don’t think it was right to call him out like that for this particular play.
Pat Bev was right, just came from the wrong messenger lol
Johnson is now the face of the franchise not Trae
nonsense..he had no chance to make a play from that starting position. we already had wally wind Halliburton up against us, don’t need this
Some players have physical advantages in defence. Basketball analysts act like it’s only about trying hard, but no one says bad offensive players just need to try harder.
Ibf- I get that this clip is not good, but there’s only so much Trae can do in general with his height and weight.
Right lol. People acting like Trae was going to be able to block the shot or something. Luka does the same stuff as Trae on defense but no one says anything
what’s up with these weird comments I often see on reddit about “no one says anything about X” with some weird whereaboutism… you see people on this sub harping on Luka’s (correctly so) lack of defense all the time… thread from ~19h ago with 800 upvotes:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1px8ncm/mannix_luka_don%C4%8Di%C4%87_often_displays_minimal_effort/
He looked lost last night
He’s not the face of the franchise. He’s a net negative asset right now
Announcer really said that and put an exclamation point on it… damn.
I think this is an unfair example. He tripped on a screen and thought it was an automatic layup.
Trae dim lol
Face of a poverty franchise more like it
Never has been a top10 pg in the league
Worse leadership skills in the league