[Highlight] Nuggets set a legal screen to get Jokić free for three and his 44th points
I actually haven’t seen reddits thoughts on these moving screens lately. I remember it was always deflecting and saying Warriors get away with it all the time… But what is everyone saying today about the football level blocking going on during screens now a days? Literally just grab dudes and walk off with them for wide open shots? More than half the league does this every possession. Thinking Basketball did a segment on it and it’s pretty bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NWDEbashTk
Objectively it’s insane how often we see shit like this. OKC is also pretty bad with it in particular
I made a post mid playoffs of Ihart coming off the bench and setting 3 illegal screens in back to back possessions. We are talking about holding Jaden McDaniels with two arms wrestling style to force the switch.
Since I’ve noticed him doing I can’t unsee it and it feels like half his screens are straight up tackles.
Literally every single screen Hartenstein sets is him walking up to them, sticking his arms out, and pushing them away lol
Celtics did it all the way to a chip
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/FVtllJCtkS
They would also routinely grab players and drag them into on ball action to force switches
Yup lol. I’ve seen Tatum just yank a defenders arm if that’s the guy he wants guarding him into the action. Very blatant but oh well they don’t call it 🤷🏾, get it how you live imo.
Thinking basketball’s main point seemed to be that the problem wasn’t as much the physicality of these screens as much as it was the extremity of the imbalance between the physicality allowed to offenses and defenses and the inconsistency of referees.
In general nobody likes it but also nobody feels teams have huge advantages over each other because everyone does it. It’s how the modern game is officiated. Physicality is extremely harshly reffed for defenses but extremely leniently reffed for offenses
Yea every team does this but there are teams who are just consistently better at doing it and getting away with it.
It also does a disservice to Jokic, Luka, SGA etc because it makes their numbers really hard to compare to previous players, like how Chamberlain’s 50 ppg doesn’t have much meaning in comparison because all the stats from that era are screwed up. And also makes it easier for a hater to dismiss what they’re doing.
“all the stats from that era are messed up”
Go ahead and elaborate on that. Tell me why you think averaging 50.4 points per game while playing all 80 games “doesn’t have much meaning” because that sounds like some bullshit but i’m willing to let you explain yourself.
How magnanimous of you.
He played in an incredibly high pace era and played way more minutes than almost any player ever. What he did is still impressive but not directly comparable to what other superstars have done.
MJ, Shaq and Embiid amongst others have scored at a similar rate but it is just physically impossible to match his ppg numbers because nobody plays the same number of possessions as Wilt did.
It just means that what Wilt was actually doing in any given game or possession of basketball scoring wise is a little over exaggerated by his raw numbers compared to other eras numbers.
Sure. It doesn’t have much meaning because the year Wilt averaged 50 and 26, a 6’5” guy averaged 38 and 19. So the stats are obviously super-inflated.
Having said that, I do think Wilt is a Top 5 player All-Time. You just have to curve his stats down.
I remember it was always deflecting and saying Warriors get away with it all the time…
I’m not even sure what point you’re trying to make here.
The Warriors have egregiously used illegal screens for over a decade, it’s very noticable because their best player is the best off-ball player in NBA history, and for large stretches of these 10 years they had the second most dangerous off-ball player as well.
Other teams are abusing the rules as much as they can get away with as well.
well everyone was comparing them to the cavs and the cavs were not a shining example of modern basketball at the time. they mostly just ran iso over and over
This is fake news to anyone who reads this by the way. There is no evidence of the Warriors gaining an advantage via illegal screens compared to any other team. There has never been any league address regarding this ‘issue.’ Literally the only commentary that has been made regarding the Warriors using illegal screens is by a few players and, by a vast majority, Redditors.
I have had this conversation so many times and have never had one person provide evidence that the Warriors were abusing or taking advantage of illegal screens setting to a disproportionate level. People love to say ‘use your eyes.’ If you watch any game, you see the exact same shit with various players. Andrew Bogut and Draymond Green are not the only NBA player that set illegal screens.
Just want everyone who reads that first comment to know that it’s actually bullshit that salty haters like to say to try and discredit the Warriors run. I’m not even a Warriors fan.
Bogut’s illegal screens won them their first championship.
Yet another person with fake news and zero evidence. Sure though bud.
Lol either you’re the biggest GSW glazer ever or just blatantly blind and ignorant.
Zero evidence. You’re saying the exact same shit that everyone else has. Bunch of shit talking and namecalling but zero evidence.
Sorry you’re salty GS was kicking your ass.
don’t expect actual analysis here, it’s just soap opera for terminally online redditors who don’t watch games
How about my actual analysis?
Lmao that’s a mighty condescending tone for someone who didn’t do the absolute bare minimum of research.
The Warriors lead in off-screen possessions in 15-16 (earliest entry for this particular stat) is the same as #2 to #18 in the league. If everyone is using illegal screens like you claim, then clearly the team using this type of possession much more than others is benefiting a ton.
It’s literally hundreds of possessions more than any other team, every single season.
That lead was even larger in 2016-17. 5.2 possessions per game lead over #2 in the league (same as #2 to #26).
How about 18-19? Their difference to #2 was larger than #2 to #30.
They have thousands of off-screens possessions, more than any other team in the league over the past decade.
If everyone is abusing the rules the same (which is highly doubtful), the Warriors benefitted the most.
Points go higher = what the NBA wants
It absolutely looks like football, but even then that’s probably a holding call
People cared because the Warriors were so good. The Nuggets are good, but they’re not dynasty good. People always care more when a team sticks out. Much like the Thunder before their recent stretch. Is it fair? Of course not. But people will always care more about the teams that separate from the pack.
It’s very bad but it’s also obviously jut part of the game today sadly
I think it all started when team’s decided to switch more, either to get their preferred mismatches, or to have the defenders switch to their intended man. I see this a lot when teams try to get into their half court set up and players are trying to read the offense and defense and these switches which usually takes place from a regular screen became some sort of like “alright let me hug you and drag you here coz you know we’re switching” or something. From then on, moving screens became normal even on actual off-ball screens and not just those “pre-play set up” (can’t find the right words to describe it) and switching
I thought the general consensus was that calling illegal screens fairly would be the single most significant adjustment refs can make to level the playing field
Convinced the Warriors dynasty began with these types of screens (bitter Spurs fan)
Don’t get why the NBA doesn’t crack down on the fundamentals of the game
Money.
The percentage of people who like defense more is MUCH smaller than the percentage that loves offense more.
Yeah, but people who like defense more are MUCH cooler, so I think it evens out
As their product continues to decline because people don’t want to watch guys throwing up 3’s all game. People can’t articulate exactly why they don’t watch but it’s for reasons like this.
It’s star led entertainment today more than a sports league.
It’s less about making calls that benefit teams, and instead helping individual plays with individual stars.
Then you just hope enough of the bullshit stacked against your team after 48 minutes doesn’t cost you the game.
Closer the game, the more weight is added to each bullshit call/non-call.
Valid, it all starts with Silver
It helps offense the way things are now
But yeah they should
So many people don’t watch full games and don’t notice or care
Fair but just like calling the illegal screens, traveling, carrying etc. It would make it so it doesn’t happen going forward
Oh I totally agree but we have a commissioner who is saying the NBA is a “highlight league” and obviously doesn’t care about the full game experience
I know what you’re thinking but this is only a foul if you forget about the current score, time remaining, TV ratings, and Vegas line. Go easy. The refs have a lot to consider!
I am a Nuggets fan, but damn. It’s kinda crazy that that wasn’t called lol.
Not crazy its literally happening every night by every team
Feels like players who fall down after getting screened like this are like 500% more likely to get the call. I see this shit with Lu Dort and Marcus Smart and guys who like to flop a lot. If you don’t it just seems like the refs perceive it as good physical basketball.
That looked more like a football guard run blocking
It’s the modern league, you’ll see this kind of screen every day unfortunately.
As a side note, it always bugs me how much “a legal” and “illegal” sound alike when speaking out loud. It’s hard to tell someone that a player did “a legal move.”
It’d be described as “an illegal move” or “a legal move.” Or you might hear “that was legal” or “that was illegal.”
Hope that helps to clear up the confusion.
Yeah but it’s not clear enough that you didn’t say “a illegal move” as people often do when speaking off the cuff.
It has come to a point where if your team isn’t screening ridiculously like that then you are putting your team at a disadvantage since it is rarely called.
I find it absolutely ridiculous that you are allowed to extend your arms at all.
Honest question: As a defender, if you stumbled into the shooter at the end and get called for a foul, could you challenge it and get the foul called on the screener upon review?
I think what’s particularly enraging is that Rudy gets called for illegal screens that are a fraction of this magnitude all the time (which I’m not saying those are bad calls necessarily, he does set illegal screens at times). I guarantee if he had set a screen like the one here, it would’ve been called immediately. The inconsistency is maddening
Nah, I don’t think this whole game had a single illegal screen call (even though there was a carry for each side), the refs just decided that it was legal for this game
We’ll never know, but idk that no call was wild and I think Rudy doing it would be tough to ignore (based on his reputation, size, etc). The refs were atrocious and I hope they’re better next time, because these two teams play each-other so well!
Absolutely. I love and hate every single time we match up, hope we get no foster next time!
Agreed! I’m sure the next matchup will be just as good!
This type of screen is the standard in the nba. Its completely against the rulebook but every team does it except maybe the heat
Rudy gets called if he even thinks about moving….
well… everyone hates rudy
They only really allow this kind of blocking off-ball and it is harder for bigs to get away with.
On the other hand, Rudy sets his feet twice as wide as his shoulder width on his screens which is also illegal.
Suffice to say, almost nobody sets a legal screen in the NBA anymore.
NBA is a entertainment product, not a sport association. They don’t care about rules, just these viral moments like dunks and crazy score tallies that generate clicks.
And that’s only because good guy Spo saw all the comments about Bam setting nothing but illegal screens and decided he’d just do away with them this year to save his face. /s
56 16 and 15, dude is supernatural
You don’t get this statline by accident. Best in the world
And W this time too… He seems to be turning the tides on 50+ point games… He lost first 4, now he won 2. Boy is crazy
Overtime is going to inflate stats for #1 options. More impressive if it were say 38-40 minutes
Well no sh*t
Now consider this, in 76 NBA seasons this feat has only been achieved 17 times by 8 different players, only 8 achieved it in regulation, and only 4 players have done it twice
bUt oVeRtImE
I didn’t say it like that
Honestly, what other made could it have been meant other than to take away from this achievement? Even with overtime only 8 people ever have done it, we know overtime increases stat lines
We call these the Al Horford special
Screens are the nba’s biggest joke. Jokic sets a dozen illegal screens a game. Not this handsy bs though, dude is sneaky with it. Often stepping backwards into the unsuspecting defender. He’s got an insane ball iq and knows how to set them just late enough that the defenders don’t actually have the chance to avoid it (aka illegal) but early enough that it won’t get called. It ends up being something like a 300lb giant throwing a mini hip check.
He’s so dirty on those
But then when a guy half his size touches him he goes flying across the floor and gets a foul call.
What are you talking about, Donte is a rim protector through and through. He sent Jokic across the floor because of his sheer size!
Yep, one of the worst parts of the NBA. This and the level of carry while dribbling is crazy
The amount of moving screens that weren’t called against Denver was actually comical.
That’s embarrassingly bad officiating. At least make it look like a screen.
Would this be considered a gortat screen?
It seems like the wolves switched. Rudy was guarding jokic and the nuggets player set a gortat screen screen on McDaniels, no?
The worst part of it is now when they do call illegal screens it compromises the integrity of the game. I mean it doesn’t reallly get much worse or consequential than this play here. So if they called it somewhere else how does that not massively bias in a teams favor?
There’s no limit when this is allowed. We may as well not have anything be an illegal screen. Idk how fans aren’t more mad at this.
Damn near every screen in the NBA is illegal but it’s only a problem for folks when the Warriors do it.
It’s hard to officiate someone screening their own man in the NBA because you’re allowed to fight for position on the court. Similar to a Gortat screen, Murray is presumably fighting to maintain his inside position or move somewhere else on the court although we know he’s actually just trying to stop Mcdaniels from getting over to Jokic. If he ran over and screened Gobert the way he does in this clip it would be called most of the time.
Screening is an art and most people simply dont understand the nuances of it.
The wacky over-inflated tube man strikes again
Don’t forget the commentators saying “great pin down screen!” Like it’s not blatantly an illegal screen.
Beautiful pass blocking, should be about a second round prospect at left tackle ole in this coming nfl draft. Great length, quick feet.
Enough with the ironic titles. Just say the thing, you’re not cute.
Watch any Neemias Queta screen, and you’ll see what real legality looks like
I’m gonna guess from the ref perspective that the argument is that it isn’t a screen (even though it absolutely is), and that it’s just two players fighting for position, like a box out.
Glad I’m not the only one who was absolutely mind blown at this play. I don’t think you could find a better example for the definition of a moving screen. Goes to show you the NBA is just a glorified and corrupt outlet for degenerate gambling. Scott Foster yet again in the running for MVP on the Denver nuggets
Why is McDaniels’ holding onto Jones’ right arm and pulling him around? I get that Jones is doing the chicken wing, but isn’t grabbing a screener and pulling them also a foul?
Because he’s illegally screening him? So he’s obviously going to grab him and try to get him to move.
He’s not legally a screener at that point
If someone is illegally screening you with their left arm chicken winged out, shouldn’t you push the arm out of the way or at least grab that arm? Why would grab the arm that isn’t in even in your way and pull it towards you? One reason Jones got so tangled up with McDaniels was because McDaniels pulled Jones into him.
I’m not saying Jones didn’t commit an illegal screen, he did. I’m confused by what McDaniels was trying to do.
This is the kinda shit I have to deal with at pickup basketball and it’s annoying bc you obviously can’t call it or you’re a pussy. All you can do is point it out and have nothing change.
I pretend I do not see it
I often see these throwback posts of hoopers in like 00-10era like Brandon Roy, Kobe, Iverson, Jamaal Crawford, B Davis, etc and miss those days when it’s all just pure skill to score buckets. Now it’s like, how can I get to the free throw line and score points smh
Since the Warriors first chip, the NBA stopped calling moving picks like that.
The NBA is like the Trump administration, the rules only apply to some.
What a ref job this game turned out to be. They really didn’t want the wolves to win
The draymond golden state special
This one is at least a little weird because it seems like the defender on Jokic switched initially and then was trying to switch back and close on the shot.
I’ll be honest idk what the rules are around kind of boxing out a defender who is or was the man guarding you.
thats one of those ones that all you can do is shake your head. refs smoking crack on that one
Yeah i have to cancel my NBA App subscription.
Anti Jokic Crusaders FTW
What are people looking at? Mcdaniels literally grabs and holds Spencer. He does not move until Mcdaniels moves and drags Spencer with him.
People should be allowed to be physical but you can’t actually palm a bodypart on the other player. That’s too much control.
Spencer Jones was cooking with those pin downs. The Nuggets are sneaky deep!
Is that McDaniels holding onto Spencer’s shoulder?
Blew a 9 point lead in 2 minutes in overtime I’d think about that for at least the rest of the week, if an illegal screen helps you cope go for it
Not coping, I had a great Christmas vacationing in another country and Jokic is the best player in the world. These screens are still a league wide issue that should be addressed
Just curious, which country?
Philippines!
Wonderful. How’s the weather there this time of year?
Cloudy and hot as hell
At this point we’re gonna have every clip where anything remotely sus happens this game if the outcome is positive for the Nuggets and ignore every Wolves play where something questionable happens right
I would love to see the Wolves clips. I’m not too heated over this game I think the Nuggets being up 15 without 3 starters to begin with is pretty hard to defend with just calls.
Just look up any play with a Rudy Gobert screen and you’ll find these exact types of screens you’re bitching about
I would like to think I watch Rudy more than you… I don’t agree at all but maybe an example from this season can change my mind. As a top 1% commenter, you must have something no?
id argue that the top commenters on here know less than the rest of us, theyre too busy scrolling
It just means there upvoted more. Doesn’t really speak to their credibility.
Send da videos
OP posted his proof
Here you are still not providing proof
Yea I really disagree with that….Rudy doesn’t move his feet or he gets called like every time.
This is literally what people do in the NFL subreddit against the Chiefs.
That would be a really long clip.
[deleted]
What happened with the other two teams?
Bucks fans has been salty Jokic took the best in the world from Giannis in 2023, Thunder fans screams at the top of their lungs that SGA is the best in the world but no one believes them.