[Highlight] the refs miss a clear backcourt violation on Atlanta that would’ve given the Sixers the ball down 1 with a couple of seconds to go
That’s some bullshit
[removed]
VJ is great…. but why is this comment here as a reply to the comment above?
Way easier to farm karma when you respond to the top comment, would be my guess lol. But yeah, VJ is such a fun player. Dude absolutely rules.
Bot probably
12 day old account with over 1.2k karma, definitely a bot
Any time is a good time to compliment our sweetie pie VJ
Bot
I don’t really get the clutch thing either. He’s been good but I struggle to think of that many big moments. Sixers fans shit on Grimes for some reason but he’s the guy who’s hit the big shots for us so far this season in the clutch. Yeah he’s missed some too but no one shoots 100% what the fuck.
I love VJ but I don’t think of him as clutch time hero yet.
He had the game winner vs the warriors. He also had two incredibly clutch defensive plays in that game. Even in this game he grabbed a clutch offensive rebound to keep our chances alive. And I know he did the same in another game recently I just can’t remember which one.
If you’re thinking of clutch plays as just hitting the big shot, then yeah, I guess you’re right. But watch down the stretch how many winning plays he makes doing the dirty work. Not every clutch play is making the basket.
His ceiling is much higher. Really high on him
Of course but he is just a winner. He doesn’t have to score to make your team win. His +- is always positive too. Only VJ and Kon as rookies have that but VJ defense and rebounding is 100x of Kon
Ppl have made the jimmy comparison before, but I think it’s a good one. I think I’m a few years he’ll have a few go to spots on the floor and be able to leverage his athleticism into a highly efficient offense plus his defense
VJ is an insanely likable guy and team guy first. He had some of highest praise pre combine of anybody ever. Hes way different than Butler for that reason ha
I’ve heard the kawhi comparison too alot. If your getting compared to those 2 players it’s not bad at all.
Lmfao there’s so many clutch players in the nba right now why pick karate kid ufc fighter Alex Caruso
Technically he isn’t even the most clutch guy on the team. That’s Kelly Oubre.
lol. VJ makes defensive , offensive or big rebounds in most clutch moments in almost every game. He’s a ball hawk and got hands
Much more ethical than Caruso
Super Caruso with some Jordan
More like a ball dominant Josh Hart with athleticism.
Maxey is pretty damn clutch, so not sure about that one chief, but I love VJ
Na, Maxey is a shot chucker like Luka. We wont ever win with him as #1, proven so far but maybe if VJ turns to star in 2 years
Gotta have something like VAR to overturn obvious calls like this.
It’s very obvious, but the 2 mins report is gonna say he didn’t establish possession until he was at the backcourt, which is total bullshit
They’re gonna say he didn’t make a football move after 2 steps to establish possession.
This play was legal because of the Tuck Rule
1a. A balk is when you
1b. Okay well listen. A balk is when you balk the
1c. Let me start over
1c-a. The pitcher is not allowed to do a motion to the, uh, batter, that prohibits the batter from doing, you know, just trying to hit the ball. You can’t do that.
1c-b. Once the pitcher is in the stretch, he can’t be over here and say to the runner, like, “I’m gonna get ya! I’m gonna tag you out! You better watch your butt!” and then just be like he didn’t even do that.
1c-b(1). Like, if you’re about to pitch and then don’t pitch, you have to still pitch. You cannot not pitch. Does that make any sense?
1c-b(2). You gotta be, throwing motion of the ball, and then, until you just throw it.
1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have the ball up here, like this, but then there’s the balk you gotta think about.
1c-b(2)-b. Fairuza Balk hasn’t been in any movies in forever. I hope she wasn’t typecast as that racist lady in American History X.
1c-b(2)-b(i). Oh wait, she was in The Waterboy too! That would be even worse.
1c-b(2)-b(ii). “get in mah bellah” – Adam Water, “The Waterboy.” Haha, classic…
1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. A balk is when the pitcher makes a movement that, as determined by, when you do a move involving the baseball and field of
The commitment 🤣 way more than I have, just to read this level of commitment.
Didn’t complete the catch until the backcourt
Chances are they uphold it.
https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/legal-play-players-momentum-carries-him-into-backcourt-not-a-violation/
Momentum carried him into the backcourt.
Silly rule but there ya go.
precedent: https://www.espn.com.au/nba/story/_/id/44845578/pistons-knicks-miffed-officiating-bizarre-ending
thanks for this
this was also the referee’s explanation for it in the Brunson example you shared:
ZARBA: Rule 4 section 6G, the frontcourt backcourt status is not obtained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half, in this instance, during the throw-in the last two minutes of the fourth period and the last two minutes in any overtime period. So, obviously that is where we were at that point. Brunson and the trajectory of the pass were headed towards the backcourt. Brunson’s momentum was taking him there when he touches the ball. Due to that momentum, he’s not considered in a positive position at that time. That’s why that play is legal.
NAW is likely not in a “positive position”, whatever that could mean. so it’s probably upheld.
Basically, if your momentum drives you into the backcourt and there’s no possibility of stopping anymore after catching, then it’s fine
They don’t uphold this standard though.
Am I the only one who thinks thats insane? I get the whole gray area that the backcourt in this instance isn’t “technically” out of bounds but the inbounder threw him the ball in the front court, he caught in the front court, put his foot down in the front court, but because he just happened to be running a certain direction it doesn’t matter where the fuck the ball/his feet are?
Every single person on that play intended the ball to be caught in the front court, which it was, and then his momentum THAT HE CREATED “forced???” him into the backcourt?
Absolutely insane interpretation IMO, and if that’s correct that’s gotta go
If anyone else is curious, here’s the play
The Brunson play makes sense, since he catches the ball literally while making the step that takes him over the line
The NAW one is still a bit iffy to me, but I can see how he doesn’t have positive position. I also don’t buy the argument that he could just stop, but that part gets blurry
Yea Brunson literally catches the ball whilst crossing the back court, there’s no way you can say he established a front court position.
This NAW play is very different as he is well behind the line when he catches it and most importantly takes a step after catching it which would indicate that he had established front court position.
But that was the gather step. He still has 2 steps after that before it even becomes a back court violation. /s
Yeah there was quite a few calls to be pissed at as a Piston’s fan that series butt hat wasn’t one of them
I feel like the Brunson play is totally fine, but the NAW and Rondo ones should be violations (I feel less strongly about Rondo’s though). What is the point of even having the rule if we are going to allow situations like NAW’s? They should just get rid of the back court rule.
Yeah looking at it more, while I can understand the thinking behind the call, it seems like a real loose interpretation and I don’t agree with it
The spirit of the rule is to keep guys from retreating into the backcourt, and that’s exactly what NAW does here. I don’t think it’s reasonable for him to plant his feet and just stop, but if the play relies on you breaking the rules then maybe it’s not a good play
That’s why I think this is a bad example. He established control in the front court and ran to the backcourt.
The difference is NAW could’ve stopped but he just kept running.The act of catching the inbound didn’t lead him into the back court.
Yeah, I’ve seen players come to a stop with way more momentum than that. Not saying it would’ve been easy but this was way different than the Brunson one where it looks like he made the catch while stepping into the back court
Dude had possession and kept on going. It’s whatever though we still would have needed to get the bucket which is no guarantee. This was more the icing on the cake of some nonsense shit tonight.
Yeah our play-by-play guy called it immediately. Borderline but they’re not likely to call that one.
Thanks for sharing. I’m sure everyone will read your comment, accept that they’re wrong, and apologize for accusing the officials of intentionally altering the outcome of the game.
Then why don’t players just do this all the time. You can literally just pass right near the mid court and they won’t have to stress
Because it only applies when you’re inbounding and it’s the last 2 minutes of the 4th or OT.
Rule 8 - Section III - e
Any ball out-of-bounds in a team’s frontcourt or at the midcourt line cannot be passed into the backcourt. On all backcourt and midcourt violations, the ball shall be awarded to the opposing team at the midcourt line, and must be passed into the frontcourt.
EXCEPTION: During the last two minutes of the fourth period and the last two minutes of any overtime period, the ball may be passed anywhere (frontcourt or backcourt) on the court. However, if the ball is thrown into the frontcourt and an offensive player on the court fails to control the ball and causes it to go into the backcourt, his team may not be the first to touch the ball.
The rule book does not say momentum under rule 4 section VI g. Why there is no backcourt is because the “backcourt” is not attained at this moment. For this clip, it is the definition of (3). For Rondo’s clip, that is definition of (2).
Frontcourt/backcourt status is not attained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half during (1) a jump ball, (2) a steal by a defensive player, (3) a throw-in in the last two minutes of the fourth period and last two minutes of any overtime period or (4) any time the ball is loose.
Yea the ‘momentum’ part is only relevant when the player hasn’t established front court position like this Brunson example.
This games one is completely different as NAW clearly established front court position as indicated by the fact that he took a step in the front court after catching the ball before crossing back court.
I think the rule has something about both feet so would seem they called it correct actually if that is the case.
isn’t this like how you don’t establish yourself inbounds until both your feet hit the floor?
He caught it on his chest ffs.
Even if he did, he was fouled before crossing the line. So 2 freethrows and he would have had maybe made 1 but the second would would have ran the clock out anyways.
NBA is a joke.
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just not a serious sport
NBE
we need to normalize refs going ‘whoops my bad’ instead of sticking with their shit decisions they obviously know are wrong 1 second after making them
Like why can’t they do what the NFL is doing and have nBA head quarters watching the games and give instant reviews? Or atleast tell them to go watch it?
It’s a joke when everyone on the entire court knows they got it wrong but they do absolutely nothing about it when they absolutely could because no play has occurred yet.
That wasn’t even close—like at all.
Everyone here is bugging out but how is it not close? It’s not fully clear in real time if he established two feet in the front court before going into the backcourt.
And VJ seems to foul the player before he goes backcourt.
If they had called a foul prior to him going backcourt, we would’ve gotten a full second more in our final possession
He receives the ball in the front court. It doesn’t matter what his feet are doing. This isn’t an NFL touchdown play
The NBA has a lot of precedent for NFL style two foot rules
You need to establish two feet inbounds before touching the ball from out of bounds. But more directly related to this play - you need to get two feet into the frontcourt to avoid an 8-second backcourt violation call. I don’t see why the two feet also wouldn’t apply to move from front to backcourt
You do not need two feet to re-establish inbounds. You simply need to be not out of bounds (often referred to as “something in, nothing out”). Frontcourt status is the only time two feet are necessary
So you’re trying to say that a player can catch the ball on one foot in the front court, stand there like a flamingo for 10 seconds, and then jump into the backcourt with his other foot, and that would be legal?
The backcourt isnt an “out of bounds” area in this situation. They are legally allowed to catch the ball there.
The reality of this play is its a subjective call that officials need to determine. There have been plays like this where the officials say the momentum carries them into the backcourt even though they caught in the front court so it’s a “legal play”. If it was the case that they needed to establish two feet, then the officials would just come out and say that possession isn’t gained until they establish two feet in either the front court or back court. But that’s not what they say, so I don’t think that rule transfers over to these types of plays. Could be wrong though who fucking knows with NBA rulings
Ya, but if you watch a lot of basketball, it’s obvious from where he catches it. You just know what happened without needing to go frame by frame. People can’t actually see everything at NBA speeds.
I’m sorry I know that we are probably harder on refs than ever. But genuinely how are you a professional ref for the NBA and miss that call?
Even if it’s missed, can we not have a booth ref to override this kind of stuff?
A small organisation like the NBA can’t afford it. Only the big leagues can.
Because according to the rules it is not a back court violation. Also has precedent. Also is bullshit but it is what it is.
That is not his momentum carrying him in the backcourt, he just keeps running.
I feel like backcourt is one of the few things that NBA refs are stringent about too. Like a travel, push off, etc. even when obvious ones are missed you kinda accept it because they let you get away with murder. But for the first time for them to look the other way is infuriating
As soon as AI gets good enough all these bums are gone.
can’t wait for the nba to make up some hot trash about gather steps when the dude got the ball 8 feet from half court.
legit clown shit from this league every fucking night
This shit is fucking rigged
Refs are a absolute joke
yea… i think… i think refs are blind.
what year is it? 2020? 2016? 2014? thats why no one can take this shit product anymore, whoever wins their trophies.
nowadays, you play the refs not your opponent. you win rings with that.
That’s not a violation by rule. Momentum can carry a player over the line with the ball. It’s happened before with Brunson.
It’s always been the rule, not some new age change.
I had to scroll really far to find this correct answer smh
I feel like it wasn’t momentum and he was intentionally running back to avoid the foul. He’s a good 8-10 feet away when he catches the ball and there was no effort to stop what-so-ever. How can you claim momentum when he purposely lunged to avoid the travel too.
It clearly was momentum. He’s running at high speed while catching and gathering the ball…
It’s kind of a cheat rule. But it’s definitely applicable here.
I don’t know if Hawks did this intentionally but this is a legit strategy that NBA teams can use. Just have players run really fast. And if everything goes well.. They should be able to carry their momentum over the line.
Momentum is only relevant if they haven’t established front court position in Rule 4 section 6G. Like in this Brunson example.
This games example is clearly different as NAW is not only well behind the line when he catches it but he takes a step in the front court after catching the ball indicating he established front court position.
Otherwise there could be countless ways to abuse the rule by players running full speed towards the back court and claiming ‘momentum’ led them to the back court.
It states that you have to have a “positive position”. Which i’m assuming is just different wording for “established”. You can definitely argue that NAW hadnt quite established himself but like we both said. This can be abused.
If NBA teams are aware of this “abuse” then it becomes a riskier play.
It’s not momentum carrying him, he intentionally ran back despite clearly establishing possession in the front.
The simple but technically somewhat wrong way to explain it is that it’s not a backcourt violation for the exact same reason that it’s not a travel.
Yeah I thought there was some rule about backcourt violations where the player has to establish frontcourt presence first by foot in, foot in, ball in. Didn’t think it would also apply to inbounds, but kinda makes sense when you can inbound the ball to backcourt.
yeah I’m well aware of this rule after game 3 last year
The issue is what constitutes momentum? I can get behind there being instances where the player catches the ball straddling the line and genuinely hasn’t established “presence” but the ball was thrown in the front court, caught in the front court, he took a step after he caught the ball, and was a good 5-6 feet from the line.
I think in this situation the officials should have called the back court, but because they didn’t they can easily say that they made the right call “in the moment” due to that momentum/presence justification. Which I would argue is not the right application of that rule.
Garbage product
Brother Edgecombe got hacked 8 times, no fouls and forces this, suspect as hell watching this live.
They legit forgot it was a possibility and weren’t even checking for it, awful for the 6ers
Pretty sure there is some bs in the rules about momentum taking you into the back court because I remember something similar to this happening before. You just shouldn’t be able to throw it into the back court it’s dumb they added it in.
That’s what the Hawks announcers were saying. Never heard of that though so I thought they were just being homers lol
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1k79nsc/highlight_jalen_brunson_splits_the_clutch_free/
I believe it was this play, though it’s not exactly the same. Brunson catches it mid stride as he crosses into the backcourt, whereas NAW catches it at a full run a stride and a half away. Neutrally speaking, the difference really comes down to how subjectively a ref is gonna interpret “momentum” and “control”.
Yea I remember hearing this sometime last year. Sounded like BS because I never heard of that rule
I agree if you have the ball advanced you shouldn’t be about to go backwards to kill the clock.
Put the ball in play
If you watch the replay - 1 foot in with ball at full sprint, second step with ball is in backcourt. Momentum carried. It was the correct call.
That was the 3rd horrendously blown call that game. Can’t convince me they didn’t have money on the line.
Dyson Daniels had a huge walk and then hoofed the ball which didn’t hit rim as shot clock expired and the Hawks got the board put back with no calls from the refs at all
i’m blind i’m deaf i wanna be a ref
feel like Nurse gets put through some of the most egregious ref-ball lol
He also RIDES the refs all game long. Like never a moment he isn’t squawking about something. I’m guessing they tune him out.
he should have caused way more of a stink
nobody understands what can be automatically reviewed or not, just act angry on the court and maybe it will happen. Very serious sport.
Its always been called this way in the NBA….“player’s momentum can carry them into the backcourt” but its a stupid rule. A rule only in the NBA. Its not on the officials, its on the league.
It is one of those rules that let the refs decide ending of the game. $uch a rigged sport
wow we got off easy with that win…
I was watching this live.Thats unacceptable.Another weird issue is the time left on the clock after the intentional foul.Where did they get 1.5 from?The whistle came well after that and the first foul came well before it.
And the play right before that they messed the clock up too. And on that play, the shot clock didn’t reset until the Sixers had the ball for a few seconds so it went from unplugged to 8 seconds lol
Refs had hawks winning the game tonight. Fire all of them!! NBA is a joke.
yeah man that’s why they shot zero FTs in the 4th until the intentional foul despite JJ getting hacked multiple times on the way to the rim. Refs rigging it for the mighty Atlanta Hawks
Win is a win but come on man
Right in front of of him lol
Your momentum is allowed to bring you into the backcourt. Why am I the one that has to explain all the rules dammit. Why don’t the commentators know the rule???
LMFAO how
doesnt get more obvious than that
absolutely hosed
think you mean ‘lowlight’.
Absolute disgrace
Also they missed offensive basket interference earlier in the game that would’ve wiped away a bucket. But of COURSE they took a long look at Barlow grabbing the net to give the hawks the bucket in the fourth (which was probably the least egregious of the 3 scenarios bc his arm was pushed). Worst we have been fucked over since brunson grabbed maxey on the inbounds play at the end of the playoffs game a couple years ago
They looked at Barlow’s obvious basket interference because Nurse used and lost his coaches challenge on that play. Sixers couldn’t challenge the play by NAW because of that bad challenge.
The referees screw the 76ers once again… and again vs. Atlanta IIRC (double overtime IIRC)
GOD DAMN
Look at 0:16 in this video. I think the refs changed the foul to that instance, the the players is in the front court and the defender swiped down. They also added time to the clock.
all depends when ref subjectively determines him to have possession.
for those unaware, you’re allowed to plant first foot in the front court and get second down in backcourt. totally legal play
I know we say this a lot but refs have been extra wild this season I swear
Do Hawks always get the ref cheat codes on or is it just against the Sixers? 2nd time in like what 2 weeks we get jobbed
We normally get hosed. We’re as surprised as y’all are here.
Might be the first game all season the Hawks were on the good side of the refs not enforcing the rules. Seems like nightly teams are able to just push the Hawks around while any contact from them is called
Already forgot about the last time they played the Sixers and the refs ignored nurse calling a timeout for a chance to win the game?
You would still have to score right? With like 2 seconds on the clock?
Better than needing a 3 with 1 second on the clock
This is even a catch in the NFL.
The Sixers getting screwed by the league? Never seen this before
NBA operates using Calvinball rules. Sport seriously needs a major ref and rulebook overhaul.
Everyone mad on here shows how ignorant some “fans” on reddit are when it comes to the rules. He hadn’t established possession and his momentum carried him in the backcourt. This has been the rule for a long time.
And I wasn’t watching but I’m sure the 76ers announcers, who I have had to listen to in the past, were over the top homers and complained incessantly throughout the game about every call. Then, I am sure, that this play (wrongly) sent them into full victim mode and put on tilt every 6er fan watching. They should have informed the audience that this was the right call.
They should add 1 more ref like the nhl so 4 people can miss a call
Worst officiated sport in the world .
Think you need to establish possession which means both feet need to be down before you are considered to be on one side of the court.
Yikes, send these refs back to training camp
The current NBA is a lowlights sport
Refball strikes again
yeah thats some serious horseshit
I’d be mad as hell lol
lol wtf
Philly lost so I don’t care.
(Jk this is an absolute joke of a missed call)
how do you not blow a gasket ?
Well that was some bullshit. We got away with a free win here. Sorry 76er bros, as much as I might hate Embiid, this sucks for y’all. Atlanta never gets these kinds of calls at the end of games, and it’s usually going the other way
This reminds me of the clip of KD saving the out of bounds after taking like 3 steps outside the line lmao
The NBA is a hard product to enjoy at times.
Hey this is the NBA, first two steps don’t count.
The no call on Okongwu the play before was just as egregious. Not biased or anything.
I know it’s said every year…
And I know it’s said every year that “I know it’s said every year…”
But holy fuck, the reffing has been absolutely abhorrent this year. Especially lately. Not only making shit not entertaining and completely destroying momentum in games, but genuinely impacting the result of the game because of their incompetence.
When does this shit get fixed FOR REAL?
Yall dumb they talk about this on every last play of close games you can go into back court and momentum is a factor when catching the ball.
Yall are so fucking stupid lol bitch about refs all day without even knowing the rules
I thought you were allowed to inbound into the backcourt from a timeout, assuming you were still in the first 8 seconds of the shot clock.
Yes but can’t catch it in the front court then run to the back
ah i missed it that he was still in the front court when he caught it
Sure, you can pass it back court. You can’t just grab the ball and dribble back court though
You can inbound to the backcourt in the last 2 minutes, but you have to inbound it to the backcourt — you’re not allowed to inbound the ball to the frontcourt and then go into the backcourt.
There’s already precedent with this. I don’t exactly remember the game (it might’ve been the Knicks-Pistons series) but the refs can determine that the players momentum off the inbound was carrying them backcourt.
I don’t agree with it but it’s happened before
See what you are seeing is the “gather” step, so it’s not actually a backcourt violation.
Wtf?
With all the cameras and AI trackers, why aren’t there 50 off court refs using those to vote on every call? Would prevent bs like this.
Refs are such ass
They didn’t “miss” the call, it’s a deliberate no call to give the home team what the fans and gamblers came to see.
NBA refs are there worst
I mean it looks horrible and if it were my team I’d be pissed.
But some notes on why it isn’t cut and dry.
“Note that a player inbounding the ball in the frontcourt may not pass the ball to a teammate positioned in the backcourt, unless it is in the final two minutes of the game.”
https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/backcourt-violation-inbound-pass-from-baseline-goes-into-the-backcourt/
Also:
Legal play, player’s momentum carries him into backcourt, not a violation.
The funniest reaction is krejci in all this
I dont like either team but how do miss that call. Wtf
This league sucks.
It’s shit like this that lets the Lakers lead the league in FTs………..
It’s a frontcourt gather, so it doesn’t count as possession because the refs are dumb.
Wouldn’t have changed the outcome. He was fouled on the inbound and they would have seen that and he would still be in the same situation except at the free throw like with like .5 seconds remaining. AKA hopeless situation since 1 free throw and missing the second on prupose anyways.
240 comments whining about rigged reffing and 10 people who actually know the rules
A million reviews and they still can’t get this right
So many very confidently wrong posters itt.
I’m going to get downvoted but the NBA video rulebook is consistent with this. Your momentum can take you into the backcourt. Idk if I like it but yeah
NBA is ass.
Three blind mice three blind mice
Bro come on. What is this garbage after the Grayson Allen trash too. They fucking robbed the 76ers
Get fucked Philly fans. The fix was in.
they were blatant tonight with the soft foul calls then this
We been getting hosed on calls this year
The NBA is a shitty product.
bro literally 27 on the Hawks thought it was a backcourt too. bro literally put his hands on his hand in disbelief.
League is bought and paid for unless they fire the ref responsible. It’s gonna be like the WWE eventually.
A backcourt AND a travel lmfao. One foot on the ground when he caught it, two more steps before the ball even touches the ground.