The final 10 seconds of the Thunder Spurs game took 11:44 seconds of real time
One of the best games of the season being a slugfest at the end, does the NBA need to change anything?
NBA DO SOMETHING I BEG
What can they do that won’t fundamentally ruin the competitive balance of the end of games?
intentional fouls when you’re up 3 with <24 seconds left is 3 freethrows if the shooter is over the 3 point line.
This is the first idea I’ve liked so far
would be abused to no end.
you can’t objectively enforce ‘intentional’ fouls, so refs will make a meal of that and ruin it, and the offensive team will increase the amount they already foul-bait as the advantage you get from a call now would be almost game breaking.
1 free throw and the ball. So if you’re up 3, you have to decide whether to play defense abs risk a 3 pt shot or let the team get 1 free throw and possession.
This is the one I feel actually makes sense, and wouldn’t be abused like crazy
Who decides what is an intentional foul though? You trust NBA officials to do that? Because guys can just reach for the ball or play overly physical until they get called, and that’s not an intentional foul.
It should be fairly obvious. Regardless if there is a little ambiguity, we need to solve this problem so compromise will be neccessary. The last minute of an NBA game should be electric, not a fucking foul fest.
ive seen refs give a tech to Anthony Edwards for staring, and then not give a tech to jamal murray for throwing heatpacks onto the court during live play
the refs cannot be trusted with any ambiguity whatsoever
Players either. The flopping epidemic is proof of that. Give players an inch and they’ll take a mile.
In the case of players, you can always expect them to push every ambiguous rule to their own benefit, which is fine because it’s predictable at least.
With the refs, you can’t tell if they’re incompetent or corrupt, their standards change every day seemingly by random
Not a bad idea
Why not all fouls of player above 3 point line is 3 free throws.
Basketball fans are basically the only people who thinks their team should have a chance to win in situations where they should be mathematically lost. If the leading team has possession of the ball with less than 24 seconds on the clock, they should be able to do the equivalent of a QB kneel and just win the game instead of subjecting us to a free throw fest.
Well, there was Greg Schiano, who didn’t respect the QB kneel down. And onsides kicks also create the opening to come from behind down multiple possessions with the clock winding down.
I mean if they really want, the trailing team could just have one of their guys bum rush the opposing player with the ball to attempt a steal. Its not like the game would literally be over once the shot clock’s off.
And while basketball obviously doesn’t have a direct analogue to onside kicks to allow a trailing team to keep possession after a score, the closest equivalent would be to try and steal the inbounds pass which isn’t unheard of. And that would actually be a cool and exciting way for a losing team to try and squeeze out extra possessions, instead of just waiting and hoping for the other team to brick some free throws.
Literally the Knicks stole an inbounding pass today
I’m pretty sure football players aren’t allowed to kneel though?
Elam Ending gives teams a chance to come back without subjecting anyone to a free throw fest, best of both worlds.
Then we’d never see Tracy McGrady’s 13 points in 30 seconds.
The real issue is obviously the extended ad breaks at the end of games.
FIBA basketball has the same fouling rules but (close) games still feel much less dragged out.
A key part of basketball fandom has always been to hit FTs at end of games to seal the win. And the losing team would have to make tough shots to come back. It is the most pressure as a player and as a fan. It has made for countless historic last second moments.
It worked great this way for 70 years. Now that teams are fouling up 3, it is ruining the endings of games.
Teams are fouling up 3 because it’s the correct thing to do under the rules. If the ruleset rewards unentertaining and unskillful basketball, then the rules need to adapt and patch out those degenerate strategies. I’m sure people complained when the shot clock was first introduced, and maybe it prevented us from seeing more extra big brained basketball where teams could poke and prod at the defense for as long as they wanted til they found an opening, but I’m sure glad they implemented it so we wouldn’t have to see more 19-18 games, aren’t you?
What does FIBA do? Feel like the end of those olympic games were pretty good
1 and 2 is fairly self explanatory. 3 is a bit less intuitive but it makes it so there is little advantage to be gained at the end of close games by using substitutions to optimise the team on the floor for offense/defense on a possession by possession basis.
e.g. the team who just scored subs out their best shooter/worst defender with a defensive specialist for 1 possession because they need a stop. Then they sub again on the next dead ball situation so they can get their best shooter back on the floor to run their optimal offense. Due to rule 3, the scoring-team can’t make this defensive substitution. The team they used to score is the team that has to run back and play D.
The last 2 minutes in FIBA typically still lasts considerably more than 2 minutes but as you saw in the Olympics, its not like in the NBA where the last 2 minutes on the game clock can easily take 20 minutes in real-time. Holy shit, I’ve seen some NBA games that I thought would never end.
The length is mostly down to extended ad breaks. Obviously the NBA is a business so they squeeze out every little drop they can so until players and owners are fine with less revenue then they can change the rules to be more consumer friendly.
In FIBA leagues you very often just see the 60-second timeouts broadcasted at the end of the games.
Elam ending
Elam ending has its benefits, but it removes the all-or-nothing buzzer beaters, e.g. Jordan or Ehlo, Dame taking out Houston, etc. It’s great in that it gets rid of the FT parade, but it’s also generally not a preferable option in a see-saw affair.
Instead of all-or-nothing buzzer beaters you get next basket wins, which keeps the tension high
I mean, you’re right that the tension is high, but it’s also not the same, either. When you take out the miss-and-you-lose element, the mood isn’t the same.
There’s also no more moments like “Havliceck stole the ball” or Hakeem blocking Starks’ game-winner at the buzzer.
You lose those peak games, maybe the 1% that come down to a final shot. The upside is none of the foul fests we have currently, which could be more like 20% of games. To me that’s a good trade off
Us Americans would never understand the math
Isn’t it just like “add 21 to the leading teams score, whoever gets there first wins.”
Bro chill you’re gonna put someone’s eye out
doesn’t even have to be that high - when it gets to 2 minutes just add 7 or 9
Just too drastic a change to how the games been played for 100 odd years
Elam ending. Really improved the ASG for years.
1 free throw + ball if you foul up 3 or more if the shotclock is off.
foul within the first 10s results in free throws plus possession
this tilts the favor to the offense but they basically do that already so wth
This is a good one too.
so now the offensive team sprints into the lane and flails within 8 seconds of the clock, and can just keep spamming that as the defensive team can’t risk fouling so it’s a layup or FTs and the ball.
breaks the game
only breaks the game if the nba let’s it. they can still call offensive fouls in your scenario.
Running clock and the only way to stop it is by calling a timeout?
Keep possession after free throws in the last minute of the game.
Half way through the third they had called 8 fouls on the Spurs they finished with 25
Refs gonna get 10 lashes for not protecting the Thunder
Been this way for years sadly and Silver doesn’t seem to care so I doubt anything will change.
It’s been this way for like 30 years and the league has never changed it
Teams weren’t really fouling up 3 like that 30 years ago they got smarter
Yeah I can remember so many game tying 3s at the end of the game in just the past 10 years too, why didnt the teams that were up just foul every time?
Probably because of analytics. It’s like the NFL and going for it on 4th down. Nobody did it in the past but now everyone goes for it on 4th and short because analytics shows that over time, it leads to more efficient offense. Analytics in the NBA probably showed that fouling while up leads to winning the most amount of times.
It’s definitely analytics. It’s just the smart play even if it’s the gross play
It’s pretty risky because if they get into the shooting motion suddenly it’s 3 FTs to tie the game
Teams got better at shooting 3s. It changes the math
It happened, but it was never as bad as it’s been the past few years.
Yeah pretty much any competitive game the last minute becomes unwatchable.
That’s because teams didn’t focus in on 3s as much decades ago. If it was a two point game it would be the same fouling game.
Intentionally fouling up 2 doesn’t make any sense and it never did. Which is why it never happened. Why do you think it did?
I believe the g league is experimenting with the Elam ending, no?
He can’t; he’s been cucked into oblivion with all the scandals this year.
I hate this part of the nba so much it almost makes people want to turn the game off it takes so long
And it’s always during the most clutch, exciting games you then have to sit through 20 fouls, FTs and timeouts and ads and more ads
Been an NBA nut since ‘86 - I no longer go out of my way to watch regular season games. Disrespectful to people’s time. Footy (soccer) presentation is miles better.
The NBA should have no ad breaks during quarters. Timeout called? Cool, do some analysis or even just silent replays.
Intentional fouls with less than 60 seconds of game time left should result in a free throw + possession for the fouled team. Stop incentivizing fouls and the game would progress correctly.
A close game would be over 24seconds before it ends when the Team with the lead has the ball and only needs to let shotclock run out to win the game
So what? They deserved it. If the other team wants to win, they need to steal the ball like in any other play.
Teams would double and actually go for steals. You could still get fouls called on attempted steals rather than just hugging someone to ensure they can’t get a shot off.
They wouldn’t just let them dribble it out lol. They’d defend aggressively trying for a TO
Ok? “Victory formation” is a thing in the NFL, where one team has enough time on the clock that the other team can’t do anything and the game effectively ends. Nobody has a problem with it because it means the team with more points and ball possession at the end of the game, wins the game.
Imagine if the other team just started getting intentional flags to drag the game out hoping for another shot. That’s the shit show the NBA does.
should limit how many times you can intentionally foul
how would you classify an intentional foul?
I honestly think, despite how much shit people give the refs, just leaving it up to “discretion” might genuinely be enough here in that case. It’s plainly obvious. Most fouls aren’t quick after inbounds anyways, which teams need to do when intentionally fouling so they can’t get a shot off…
Then again, there is probably a much easier way to fix this. Just make it so you get 2FTs and possession after a certain number of fouls, a second stage of the bonus.
The only reason why today’s intentional fouls look so obvious is because the players and refs both know what everyone’s trying to do and its both parties’ best interests to just have the whistle blown on these weak fouls to prevent injuries. If you banned intentional fouls, what’s to stop defending players from just barreling into the other player and fouling for real, especially when the only thing the player could reasonably do in that situation is play defensive hard enough to get a miracle steal?
I honestly think, despite how much shit people give the refs, just leaving it up to “discretion” might genuinely be enough here in that case.
They kind of already do. I vividly remember 1 play:
Bulls were down 3. Zach LaVine gets the ball. Defender take fouls.
Zach feels the contact, assumes refs would call the foul. Mentally gets ready to shoot freethrows.
Ref trying to help Zach, swallows his whistle.
Zach panics, brainfarts, dribbles the ball inside the arc, bricks a long 2. Game over.
If you run a good set, refs will give you some leeway to get the 3 off.
OKC just ran out of timeouts. They burned their last timeout, on a bad inbound play.
vibes, it’s not hard to figure out during end of games. refs have brains
Refs have brains is a bold statement
would just lead to more reviews, like when refs review take and clear path fouls
To zero. Fouling should never be an intentional strategy and any intentional foul should be ball back to the offence.
here’s the truth, people don’t mind when intentional fouling gamesmanship in moderation, like okay you were down 1 you fouled now you’re down 3 but at least you have the ball for a game tying shot. Or same thing in reverse okay you’re up 3 lets foul on purpose to make them shoot two free throws. Or when you quickly intentionally foul bad centers off ball. But it shoud only be allowed ONCE as like a special quirk of the game.
It has to be at least one free throw with that. Being forced to inbound the ball when you already had possession is a huge negative to the team being fouled.
time to start Hack-a-ExtremeSite
If you intentionally foul more than twice, the next foul is 3 FTs
A foul shouldn’t be beneficial to the team committing it. Give the fouled team the option to shoot free throws or to retain possession and add time.
After 4 or 5 intentional fouls. Fouls become flagrants?
the amount of ads played during an NBA game is absolutely disgusting
And those ads are the reason they won’t change this. Anybody invested in watching a game isn’t going to turn it off near the end if the game is close, so they and want this dynamic to maximize ad revenue.
And started 34 minutes after start time
So annoying, get your ads in and music shit before the broadcast time.
Elam Ending needs to be explored
No thanks. It’s too gimmicky.
It’s not traditional because we are so engrained in a 48 minute game. But I think the Elam ending is the opposite of gimmicky. It preserves the flow of the basketball game highlighting the players skill sets. The current situation is more gimmicky . It reminds me of penalty kicks to end a soccer game.
Finding a way to penalize intentional fouls at the end of the game, like they do with transition fouls, but I don’t see how you could ever call that.
Yes but they won’t
It’s slow as fuck but if you’re a fan of one of the teams it’s so intense I actually enjoy it
Just make intentional foul is 2 shots and the ball and this shit would stop so fast.
Unless it’s clear path or before the inbounds, the league has tried to lessen the effects. Here it was a perfect storm of make fts and the other team always being down 3
Make any foul, outside the arc, three free throws.
So you’re down 2 the other team has the ball with 8 seconds left, what do you do? Just give up or foul and go down 4 or 5? That’s more lame than what we have now
I would say 10 or 15 second runoff per foul but they would just start fouling sooner.
The best games have the worst endings. It completely kills the vibe. At least make the FTs exciting. Add some wind or a guy with a water hose. Idk
Some T&A maybe ?
Just 1.44 extra second? what’s the problem?
Elam ending is the best solution, but it’ll never happen. Changes that could and should happen are:
These two simple rule changes will stop the last minutes of a game lasting seemingly hours.
Also when you call a timeout to advance the ball you should just have about 20 secs to have a quick chat and advance the ball.
The Elam ending is fucking stupid. Just make it 3 free throws if you’re up by 3 and intentionally foul when it’s less than 24s.
this is fucking stupid. why should be there different rules for fouls when you’re up vs when you’re losing?
Non shooting fouls should be one free throw and possession when in the bonus during final 2 min or 2 FTs depending on what the team prefers.
I shut it off. It’s awful. Everything up to the last 30 seconds was phenomenal, and then then it took a 180 degree turn to unwatchable bullshit. Just make an intentional foul 1 shot and the ball. Please. Right now the end of the game is a different sport and it sucks.
Intentional foul = tech
*minutes
I said the game would go another 5 minutes…
and some Thunder fan replied saying that it wasn’t going that long (that they would lose soon) lmao
This shit sucked so back cus all it really came down to was whether or not OKC could hit a three and they just marginally chipped away at the clock and nothing really changed. Just change the rules so we can play out the last 10 seconds naturally. Sucking all the energy out of an amazing game.
Truly awful. It prevented a buzzer beater possession. What we are left is Alex Caruso catching a rebound falling out of bounds. It’s worse than watching penalty kicks decide soccer matches
The problem isn’t with the end of the game. It’s all the fouls and reviews during the game that slow it down so much that by the end we all just want it to be over.
What if, in the last minute of the game, intentional fouls above the 3-point line resulted in 3 free throws? Would that be enough of a deterrent to dissuade fouling up 3?
Unwatchable
I thought it was a nail biter myself
I just watch highlights on ticktock anyway /s
Intentional non-shooting fouls in the final minute give the receiving team one shot and they retain possession.
FIBA rules are so much closer to what basketball actually should be
10 seconds taking under 12 seconds is pretty good!
If a team makes a foul in the crunch time the opposite team should get 2 points and the ball should go to the fouling team. Time saved.
I don’t know if it’s accurate or not, but games today FEEL like they take longer than say 20 years ago. Whether they are actually taking longer or not, I think that’s an issue. The perceived experience of watching games is getting worse.
This is the biggest problem the NBA has IMO. The review process and the end of games is just brutal.
They gotta change the scoreboard in the L2M to show Frieza minutes instead
Fouls given in the final 60 seconds of the game grant an automatic 1 point, and will always be 1 and 1 instead of single or double bonus.
There I fixed it for you.
The last 10 seconds took “11 seconds and 44 milliseconds”? That’s pretty good
New to the sport?
Intentional fouling made this game better because rhe missed free throws were the only way the final 20 seconds were going to be competitive once the spurs were up 2 with possession and got the ball in.
why do we NEED the final 20 seconds to be competitive, game was already extremely competitive and enjoyable enough. intentional fouling sucked the air out of the game.
I don’t disagree.
You’d rather the game ends like football where you can take a knee and run off the last 40 seconds?
Sure yeah, it’s never been an issue whatsoever in football. The exciting game defining plays just happens earlier like the game sealing first down at 40 seconds left. And there’s still more than enough “buzzer beaters” in terms of game ending field goals and touchdowns.
Probably because football is a 3+ hour game with 15 minutes of action. People are ready for it to be over
Low IQ. You have to plan and call plays and strategize, that’s part of the game. Thats why it’s the most watched sport in America by extraordinary margins, most revenue generating league in the world despite soccer existing.
As a basketball + football fan, I personally agree that it’s fine to allow the equivalent of a “kneel out” if the leading team has the ball with 20 seconds left. But I also understand the bball-purist point of view. A basketball game has way more possessions than a football game has drives, so having a way to “force the ball” back to your offense at the end of a close game when trailing feels less unfair than it would in football.
But I also think the proposal works fine either way - if you don’t want to lose that aspect of basketball, just let teams keep the ball after an off-ball foul only if they’re down by 3 or more. Yeah, it’s kinda silly that the rules would favor you more if you’re losing. But what happens now is way worse.
i think it should be like one intentional foul allowed per team in last 30 sec, keeps some of the tradition but heavily limits it.