Endings like this are miserable, give me the Elam ending.
This Spurs Thunder game has been amazing to watch, but the last 15 seconds of game clock have been an absolute slog. We deserve the Elam ending.
Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elam_Ending
This was such a thrilling game until the back and forth free throws started. Down 1? Foul. Up 3? Foul. It turns games like these into a slog
Last 4 minutes of game time took like 30 minutes between every timeout, commercial, free throw. Felt like it’d be new years by the time the game was over
The league has to fix their product. This has been a problem for long enough.
For the entire existence of basketball, yes. It’s essential to the sport. I dare you to watch FIBA and tell me it’s better.
The Euroleauge litterally has a different rule where it’s free throws and possession back because it’s unsportsmanlike
Intentionally fouling just gives the team free throws and the ball back? Hack a Shaq days would’ve been rough on the league lol
And it’s very silly to call something that is part of the strategy of the game “unsportsmanlike.” Dare I say it is very European
Almost like Desmond bane whipping the ball at og, Despite being in the rules as legal.
In fact it’s almost like the refs make judgement calls sometimes wow
Maybe let’s let them apply this ability to the end of the game too
I dare you to make what you just said make sense
Just read bruh
Can’t do it can you
They don’t teach you to read over there? I have 0 issues reading any of this
If you had a choice, would you prefer that your team play winning basketball or entertaining basketball?
I would prefer that the league change the rules so that entertaining basketball is winning basketball.
Then don’t watch games with good defense
Like how every close basketball game ever has gone?
End of games are definitely being played differently nowadays.
No they aren’t. We were intentional fouling up 3 in 2006 HS games. You just don’t know
There needs to be a rule change or something. This is such a shit ending for a good game.
Yeah, intentionally fouling in the last 30 seconds should give the fouled team free throws and possession
I understand fouling when you are down, but fouling when you are up is what makes the game egregious
Both are terrible and unwatchable tbh
I agree in a certain sense, but if OKC is punished for intentionally fouling, how do you even begin to approach winning with >24s left, all SAS has to do is advance the ball, and have wemby hold the ball over his head and let the clock run out. Fouling while down is a great mathematical strategy, and so is fouling while up 3, but it is also just kinda lame
You can’t let teams benefit from a foul. I’m not sure how to balance it. Really the ELAM ending improves it greatly IMO.
I think that would also be hard to balance, I don’t think I would enjoy a product where all 82 of my teams games end in a target score. Along with that, I see a huge issue with balancing minutes, future records, etc.. I see it the same way as I see the proposal for shortening the season, it sounds great, but it is very hard to accomplish in practice, but these are the kinds of issues that are to be expected with such a storied league
Intentional fouling while down is a necessity
If the opponent has the ball with the lead under 24 seconds you have to foul
Yeah but it’s hard to deny the fact that with the rules how they are, the spurs made it nearly impossible for the thunder to win that game when they started fouling with 20 seconds left. It’s an undeniable great strategy, and for that they should find a good way to rule it out of the game.
It is a great strategy, I want nothing more than to do the same if that was my team, it just makes the product truly unwatchable
Yes. And it’s become universal practice in the league fouling when you’re up
theres no good way to consistently rule on that, way too many cases where it’s impossible to say what is or is not intentional (and also you should still be allowed “intentionally” foul on a legitimate attempt on the basket like any other point in the game)
It’s an intentional foul if you’re making no real play on the ball. Slapping the opponent’s arm in the backcourt as they run by you at top speed is such an easy intentional foul call.
On average it would still result in a better product
I like the idea but make it 60 seconds. Also, make it 3 free throws if in the bonus…
I kind of hope it happens in the final too. so evrybody sees this garbage
So the losing team shouldn’t be allowed to foul then either
Just need the euro ending rule where it’s +1 free throw and side out. Essentially a technical
Exactly…we have already taken the good Euro players we should also take their good rules.
Just make intentional fouls give the ball back to the offense.
Yeah, or give the offense an option of ball or FT
Seems like an easy solution
So the game just ends if someone is down 1 with less than 24 seconds left?
No. You just have to play actual defense.
lol and what if the other team has the ball with less than 24 seconds? Do yall even think?
Then you also have to play actual defense.
What?
Lmao you guys fucking hate this sport
I hate the sport because I don’t like intentional fouling? It’s just an extension of the Hack a Shaq rules.
Intentional fouling is basketball. What you want is a different sport that gets faster at the end.
Thunder fans and the foul line, name a better duo
Basketball players and the foul line. It’s almost like it’s one of the main aspects of the sport.
It’s not a different sport, that’s literally how FIBA works lol. FIBA has the rule in place for plays like that because they don’t follow the spirit of the game.
Intentionally hacking Shaq down low was also basketball. But they got rid of it because it was a lame strategy.
Your first problem was asking the other continent what their feelings are on the “spirit of the game”
Basketball is worse overseas. I don’t know why everyone insists it’s better. It is worse.
“The shot clock isn’t basketball. Holding the ball the entire game is valid strategy. You want to make the sport different.”
The shot clock is basketball. We have that. It sits above the backboard
We didn’t always have that. So they never should have changed it, they completely changed what basketball is.
Right. And that is a comparison that does not work lmao
have you played pickup in your life? Intentional fouling is NBA, not basketball. You think Naismith thought intentional fouling should be an integral part of his sport?
Tell me you never played AAU or any serious HS ball without telling me. Games end like this at every level. All the damn time. You brought up pickup lmao.
who do you think these leagues and kids are modelling?
Some of them are models in their free time. SGA does modeling work. I hear they get free clothes when they do photoshoots
Teams using fouling to advantage them is a product of imbalanced rules. It’s ok to adjust rules as time goes on.
Fans of losing teams were also saying this in the 80s
Why do you want to keep watching games that end in free throw contests? As a viewer are you genuinely telling me that’s more entertaining than teams trying for 2 for 1’s and buzzer beaters?
Fuck “how it’s always been.” How it’s always been arguments don’t mean anything because it doesn’t justify why that’s how it’s always been.
It’s a mystery why you’re everywhere defending the most grating aspect of this sport that we enjoy.
Like the Thunder would have had more of a shot tonight without this being the case. You know that right?
It’s the stupidest fucking way to end a great game, and I can’t think of anything comparable in any other sport. I don’t know why they don’t just change the rules so that an intentional foul results in both shots and keeping possession.
Because it would be anticlimactic. If you’re leading by 4 points with less than 30 seconds left it would essentially be game over.
What I don’t understand is why they won’t go to the Elam ending. That keeps up the intensity and keeps hope alive until the last shot.
If you’re leading by 4 points with less than 30 seconds left it would essentially be game over.
For some reason this isn’t a problem in football when one team is up at the end of a game and the other team doesn’t have the timeouts to force a turnover on downs. They just kneel it out and call it a day.
Yup and the NFL is way more popular than the NBA. Clearly it’s not as big of a deal as some of these NBA purists like to think. I actively choose to not watch any basketball and only watch some highlights because 9 times out of 10 the game ends with 90 free throws and takes 30 minutes for the last 30 seconds. Its so anticlimactic and completely kills the entertainment and I know im not alone in this thinking.
if you’re leading by 4 points with less than 30 seconds left it would essentially be game over
One way to solve this would be only giving the ball back of the fouling team were up. You’d basically be saying “intentional fouls while up shouldn’t be part of the game, but intentional fouls while down should be, since they’re an important tool to allow that team to come back.”
That said, it’s not obvious to me it’d be bad to discourage intentional fouling on both sides. Football has this dynamic where the team that’s ahead can kneel the ball out in certain cases and their sport is still very exciting (I think the average fan of both sports would say NFL endings are more exciting than NBA). Why couldn’t NBA endings work the same way?
Elam ending can solve a lot of bad endings, but it comes at several costs:
No more all-or-nothing shots, like Jordan over Ehlo or Dame KOing Houston. Also, no more shots that you need to make to send it to OT.
Speaking of OT, that gets thrown out completely.
No more game-clinching defensive plays
Elam ending is great for ending the FT parade, but it’s worse for see-saw games
Agreed, it slows the game down so much that it gets boring
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I mean I’m in my 40s and have been watching ball for a long time. I’d love to see the Elam ending instead of what this was. This game was so intense. Felt like a playoff game and then it just turned into all FTs and fouls. I’m used to it. This was nothing new. But I’ve wanted the Elam ending for years.
Okay tell your congressman then. What the fuck are we gonna do about it except be annoyed by all the complaining?
lol youre so mad. Why the fuck would you click in this thread with this title if you’re so annoyed about the complaining. Just take your L and log off for a bit.
I already said gg man, do you also want me to agree that basketball is a bad product or whatever? I like basketball and think it’s good
Not surprising that an okc fan loves FT
Not surprising NBA fans don’t understand that free throws are as much a part of basketball as field goals are to football.
Basketball is a very young sport relatively speaking and it has changed so much throughout its history. People like you probably hated the addition of dribbling in the 1900s (people just can’t handle basketball as it has always been played) or the 3 point line in the 70s (people just can’t handle basketball as it has always been played) or the zone defense in the early 2000s (people just can’t handle basketball as it has always been played).
I think that changes that improve the game are good, actually
It wouldn’t improve the game just because fans want things to end quicker. That’s a very trivial change for fan appeasement that would be regretted almost instantly.
Elam ending means that every game ends on a bucket. That’s so much better. Imagine if every close game ended on a clutch bucket.
Why would that be better?
If you have to ask that, then I literally don’t care about your opinion
You can’t tell me why
Exciting things are better than boring things
Boring and exciting are opinions and typically we don’t listen to opinions from people who don’t know what the fuck they are talking about
Yeah this is terrible
I hate this free throw bullshit. Elam endings would bring more excitement.
Yeah it’s a huge problem with the NBA and WNBA with these games becoming draining slog fests at the end.
Basically a penalty shootout.
Basically the same as every close basketball game has always gone, forever, always
I disagree, teams have always fouled when they are down but fouling when ahead by 3 (repeatedly) is something that started more recently.
Heck some old school coaches still refuse to do it.
Dawg we were fouling up 3 in high school in 2006. You guys always prove your ignorance
That’s crazy but enjoy I guess.
You just don’t know things. You could remedy that
This might be the worst take I’ve seen someone argue in 6 different reddit threads for. You don’t know things. You could remedy that
Do you disagree that my HS team was intentional fouling up 3 in 2006? The argument was that that strategy is new. It isn’t. Which anyone would know if they actually knew fucking basketball
So fucking stupid that this is the way all close games end now. Something needs to be done to change this bullshit. Just garbage to watch after such a phenomenal game.
The prevalence of fouling while ahead really detracts from from the endings of games.
Yeah I turned the game off at the end. Sick of all the free throws
so did i. so should everyone. not sure who could find it entertaining
I was rooting for the spurs but that ending killed my excitement a bit. Repeatedly fouling up three kills the viewing experience of an overall amazing game
I swear you cats dont like hoops and the strategy of it.
No way I want a game like that having an elam ending no way!
That was one of the most anticlimactic endings of a great game I’ve ever seen. Absolute snooze fest
That was a normal ending to a competitive game. That’s how all those games end. You guys were not born yesterday but you insist on pretending
I’ll take the win, but FIBA rules on the last 2 minutes is better
Yeah, this was fucking terrible. Basketball is a game of flow. Having it turn into a choppy foul-fest at the end of games isn’t me disliking strategy, it’s recognizing that the strategy needed to win the game with the rules like they are is unwatchable. Elam ending makes every game end on a game winner and removes the incentive to stop the game with fouls.
I’ve just never watched the end of a basketball game and thought the fouling is the reason its boring. If a game has juice, it has juice. Its like tension building in the late innings in baseball. The delay builds anticipation of what mistake or big play will decide the game.
You guys seem to view stoppage as some curse. Where do you guys have to be? Its Saturday.
I just cant understand how you guys perceive it this way. And Im sure the feeling is mutually. So agree to disagree.
Also game winners should be special and I dont want every game to end on one. I like the timed element.
There’s so much strategy lost if you take away the time element.
Im the kid who created a time element in one on one because I find 21 a little less fun and I like the idea of beating the buzzer.
Maybe thats why Im like this. The time element at the end is basketball to me.
Anyway to each their own, agree to disagree.
They hate hoops man. There’s only like 5% of this subreddit that actually likes basketball. That was a normal ending to a close, competitive game
And to me this one wasnt even choppy. Both teams missed free throws that prolonged it slightly but Thunder even executed the miss on the last play.
The tension was there because every mistake mattered.
Yep. Just basketball. Smart stuff from two smart teams. Very normal ending
Agreed! See you boys in a couple days. Incredible hoops tonight! Would love to get a playoff series of it. It would be good for the young fellas and would have a few good ones I’d assume.
I just love seeing it done to OKC after they beat MIN with this strat
The refs ruined a great finish because that wasn’t a foul on Caruso
How was that not a foul? He drilled his wrist
After he lost the ball
He didn’t lose the ball and even if he did that’s still a loose ball foul
He 100% did, not sure what you’re watching. The ball was out on the Spurs on the replay
This point is irrelevant. Even if he lost the ball it’s a loose ball foul. You can’t slap someone on the wrist trying to grab the ball
That’s not what he did lmao. You’re fuckin blind
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/YQuDjEAeXW
Right he didn’t go for the ball
The Sam replay where Caruso hacked the shit out of his arm?
Still a loose ball foul. And a dumb one too because that was going off Vassell and then Caruso bailed him out by hacking him directly in front of the official.
Yeah I agree with u. But honestly it’s hard to change it when every league in the world is using the fouling strategy
It’s really not hard to change. FIBA those would be an unsportsmanlike penalty and you’d get free throws and the ball.
Euro has this solved with a intentional foul being 1 free throw + the ball
Is that only when up? Or just any foul at end of the game?
I think it’s any foul at the end of the game
Oh really? Is it only when teams are up?
I think it’s regardless of who commits the foul
Elam ending is great because the absolute worst scenario is a win on a made free throw, which is still better than this
but muh overtime and tv schedule predictability…
but seriously, win on a free throw isn’t even that bad, real pressue.
Yeah why would anybody enjoy overtime.
I’m willing to sacrifice the 5% of games that go into overtime to improve the overall product.
And it would be improved by simply adjusting the intentional foul rules to not give such an advantage.
And now you have endless replay reviews on whether the foul was intentional or not.
Limit replay reviews to being 1 minute long.
They’ll never get rid of buzzer beaters though
I’d take that trade. Something that happens maybe 1 in 100 NBA games for better endings across the board. AND there is always a game winner? Easy trade
Exactly
I hate the fouling game bs but if im a spurs fan shit it worked out perfectly just let the players hoop tho mabye okc make a three and spurs win at the buzzer instead we got this still great game tho
Do you know that the old Spurs dynasty would also utilize late game fouling to create advantages? As did every other team in the history of basketball
something existing for a long time doesn’t make it inherently good, which is your only argument all over this thread. End of NBA games are a shit product and should be fixed, better now than never.
Why are they shit and why should they be fixed? It’s working fine as it is now. As it always has been. What you are looking for is a different sport
It’s so funny that everyone thinks FIBA rules will be better. Because that’s your alternative. Literally no hoopers watch FIBA. That’s what you are looking for when you say “bad product.”
You’re so pressed that others want a different ending than whatever TF this game was. Like, you’re incapable of seeing others pov. It’s bizarre
Their POV is easily seen by clicking any post in the NBA subreddit, on any topic, at any time. We see that POV constantly. It is still dumb
Dumb to you. Not to heaps of others obviously. Not sure what’s so hard for you to understand about that
Something can still be dumb even if a lot of people believe it :)
And in things like sports, you cater to the majority. Cause otherwise your sport looks stupid
Does basketball look stupid to you? Because I know you don’t think that. You are just saying words
Not gonna debate this with you because these are basic fallacies.
Rule change does not equal different sport, otherwise the NBA has transformed into a different sport dozens of times.
“No hoopers watch FIBA”, where’s any evidence people watch FIBA less than NBA because of differing rules? There’s many more obvious and influential factors.
Otherwise it’s just a matter of opinion on what makes a bad or good product. I think many other team sports leagues have a much better ending of close games than the NBA eg hockey, soccer, baseball. Would be interesting to poll casual multi-sport fans on that, I would guess most would agree but maybe im wrong
It’s no question that the extremely online, highlight-obsessed average NBA fan gets on their phone when players shoot free throws. It’s just that some of us have played basketball and have the attention span necessary for the sport. Nobody watches FIBA.
Ya appeal to tradition fallacy is all you’ve got. You’re entitled to feel that way but the NBA is first and foremost a business that sells an entertainment product. The vast majority of their viewer/customer base doesn’t care that this is how it has been and just wants a more entertaining product to consume and spend money on.
Saying nobody watches FIBA is the lowest form of correlation fallacy. It would be like somebody arguing decades ago that the 3 pointer is why people don’t watch the ABA and if the NBA adopts it, it’s a horrific crime against the sport and nobody will watch the NBA any longer. Well, threes are now part of what you consider pure basketball or whatever, and the league has grown massively. Wanna go back to Naismith’s peach baskets while we’re at it?
Your emotions and opinion on this does not equal a good argument.
Not reading that bro it is not that deep. You don’t like basketball go watch tennis. No free throws. No fouling
“Not that deep” bro’s whining all over the thread and making 0 good arguments 😂 thanks for the entertainment
Probably more whining about free throws in here than what I’m doing, no? I’ll give you a chance to comb through it
They’re hack a Shaq until 2 minutes but pop never fouled up 3, his philosophy was to trust the defense
That’s great but the foul up 3 has been around since before that, anyway. Pop was a great coach and would have done it if he believed in the strategy.
And I guarantee you he never thought once about the “spirit of the game” or whatever people are saying is the issue. Pop coached to win, not to look cool or ethical
You said they utilized late game fouling to create advantages but not under two minutes. And no he didn’t do it “for the spirit of the game” he’s on record as being against the three point shot but he’s one of the first to see the insane value of the corner 3 which itself has done alot of damage to the game
They did utilize late game fouling to create advantages. There is plenty of evidence of this.
Maybe he didn’t foul up 3 as much as he would’ve with a worse defense, but if he was down 3 with 12 seconds left, you actually don’t believe that he called for intentional fouls?
At the very least the NBA needs to make free throw sequence faster. Use the shot clock to do an 8 second count
yea what a horrendous let down. needs to legislated out, the fouling like that to stop a 3
What is the elam ending
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elam_Ending
This sounds fucking stupid. Why not just make it a technical if you intentionally foul when you’re ahead?
Some guy invented something that was/is/will be very popular (in essence) with a slight variation
In 2020 People hyped up the all star game and gave the credit to the format. Rather than players playing hard for kobe
I hope they eventually put in a “hack a shack” kind of rule to stop intentional fouling to prevent a three pointer. I know it will be hard to prove if something is intentional or not, but a brother can dream, right?
They can make it a technical if a team intentionally fouls when they’re ahead in the last minute of the game. That will stop this nonsense immediately.
Good point. I was thinking the defender could just claim they were going for the ball, but I guess if you are up you don’t really play “going for the ball” style defense.
Exactly. People say, “you should just play defense the !”… this will force that. If you’re down, I think you should be able to foul. The goal here is to stop the fouls when someone is up by 3.
Why can’t the team in bonus just opt to inbound? Like that seems like it should be an option.
No we don’t. Elam ending is stupid
Every foul with under 1 minute left should be 3 free throws. Stop the free throw exhibition please.
Just make fouls in the last 2 minutes be that the team gets to choose on 1 shot and ball back or regular free throws like it is now. That would end it quick
They should add a rule where you can only call 1 time-out in the last 60 seconds of the game, even if you have multiple to spend. It puts more pressure on the players to actually understand their assignments and work under pressure without their coaching staff consistently giving them directions like they’re toddlers.
This sub is so miserable lol it was fine to watch.
Sybau
Oh my god. That is how close basketball games end at every level of hoops. You guys fucking do not like basketball hahahahah
Not every level.
CEBL has used Elam Ending since 2020.
G League uses it for OT games.
Unrivaled uses Elam Ending.
Target Score of +3 after 48 minutes I think will produce the best product.
I prefer that the sport as a whole gets more entertaining. I want a rules change, I’m not moralizing at teams that use the rules as they are.
What is your actual solution? If I’m Okc, I shoulda just gave up then?
Read the title of the post
Do you want them to shoot off fireworks every basket or something?
I would choose for intentional fouls become technicals in the last 30 seconds of the game if you’re up by 3 or more. I hate it when my team does it and I hate it when other teams do it.
some people just complain about anything possible
amazing game
this has been part of the game of basketball forever
The fouling when youre down has not the fouling when you’re up