Milly-the-Kid | Timberwolves

392 | 12 hours ago

The whole point of a challenge is that you need “clear and conclusive evidence” to overturn a call.

If you can’t see anything in a full minute, then there is no clear and conclusive evidence. A minute should be enough for a review.

joleary747

81 | 10 hours ago

Reviews should be in a separate office. Every close call should immediately be reviewed so if it gets challenged the result is available within seconds.

Milly-the-Kid | Timberwolves

52 | 10 hours ago

Yeah I also don’t like the two challenge max thing. “You proved us wrong twice and we’re embarrassed about it so no more challenges for you”.

Coaches are disincentivised from challenging bad calls early because even if they’re right and get proven right, they could still find themselves in a clutch game with no challenges

makingtacosrightnow | Nuggets

28 | 8 hours ago

Yup, should be unlimited if coaches are winning. 1 min challenge max by offsite team. Refs who have X amount of calls overturned need to have consequences.

This shit is getting out of hand and there is no solution.

Krusty_Krab_Pussy | Timberwolves

-5 | 7 hours ago

I think it’s been a great addition, because it prevents teams from losing challenges to obvious plays that were called wrong

BurstDrive

13 | 9 hours ago

I can’t believe how great MLB does their reviews. All MLB challenges are handled via the replay center and takes 2 minutes tops. I don’t know why the NBA can’t use their replay center either. There is no excuse when the MLB generally covers more games within a day AND their replay center can do their challenges a lot faster.

TraditionStrange9717

12 | 9 hours ago

It’s because league pass is in 720p

Reasonable_Pie9191

4 | 8 hours ago

How would they rig games

definitely-not-mad

5 | 5 hours ago

Because ref union is too embarassed to give up control

Financial-Monk9400 | Lakers

3 | 5 hours ago

This exactly. Don’t understand why this isn’t a thing yet

BigCrawgaDawga | Thunder

48 | 12 hours ago

Most foul calls are made in a split second. Did that swipe hit forearm? Looks like it, whistle. Spending 4-5 minutes is just nonsense. It’s over 100X the time they give every other call.

skratsda | Thunder

15 | 11 hours ago

One issue - that is also true in football - is that refs are forced to make a call one way or another (outside of jump balls when possession isn’t clear). Leagues introduced replay, but only as a remedial step rather than as a proactive step. Refs should be able to just flat out state it was a bang-bang play, I’ve got no clue, and let’s quickly use best judgment via replay.

Game 7 of the Finals? Take all the time in the world. These are regular season games, and there are 82 of them. The only other argument is gambling, but if gamblers can’t handle that variance they shouldn’t be gambling.

jdd32

23 | 11 hours ago

My question is why the fuck are the in -game refs pulling out a monitor to look at this. International sports have a room with people on standby to do reviews and even notify refs when a play needs an extra look. Rugby for example is so so so much better than the NBA with this, and it’s not like they’re doing anything groundbreaking.

Milly-the-Kid | Timberwolves

16 | 11 hours ago

Yeah when they initially introduced it in rugby it was a bit of a mess but it works great now.

Also the NBA absolutely does have that replay center but they seem to not know how to fucking use it. You’re right that it doesn’t make sense to have the in-game refs looking at it - then you get cases of Scott Foster/Tony Brothers sticking with their original call out of ego

pr0crast1nater | Lakers

4 | 7 hours ago

Yeah. You need a dedicated tv ref team, that the on field refs can completely depend on. It makes no sense for the on field ref to go slowly to look over their own bad decision. They will obviously find it difficult to accept their own mistake.

RspectMyAuthoritah | Lakers

1 | 9 hours ago

MLB does it like that as well and there average review time is 1 min 26 seconds. Much more reasonable than what the NBA does. That includes having to walk over and call them and explaining what’s being challenged and then telling everyone the outcome.

bluetenthousand | Toronto Huskies

10 | 11 hours ago

Bingo. If you can’t figure it out in a minute with multiple replay angles than you can’t overturn the call and you move on.

doncisco1979 | ORL

6 | 10 hours ago

I’ll save you an extra 30 seconds, have Secaucus do the review. Staff 1 ref per game who is watching the game live and has a full board at the go to rewind and replay. That eliminates all the setup time to get the monitors out. It also removes any bias the refs may have for what’s happened in the game to that point or if they made the call. They’re all humans, and that bias is real.

awful_cassette

2 | 10 hours ago

Exactly this. If you need 17 minutes to figure it out then the call on the floor should just stand, that’s literally what “clear and conclusive” means

dbzmah | Mavericks

2 | 7 hours ago

That they were waiting for the FanDuel bars to chime in for best results

ADrawingOfDeerFish

2 | 7 hours ago

This

phpope | Lakers

-1 | 10 hours ago

That’s fine if you want to put a time limit on it and make that the rule, but that’s not what clear and conclusive means.

Headlesshorsman02 | Thunder

108 | 12 hours ago

That shit is so annoying although the clown show was kinda funny at the same time the rockets kept the door open for them just for the clips to throw it away

Cowabunga_Booyakasha | United States

30 | 12 hours ago

After you.

No, no no, after you.

No, no, I insist.

repeat ad nauseum

Angel_Clears_Caitlin

89 | 12 hours ago

but the pace of the modern game is so fast!

BigCrawgaDawga | Thunder

98 | 12 hours ago

A fast run and gun game that ends in a drawn out legal battle

Constant_Charge_4528 | Bulls

26 | 12 hours ago

It’s fast when the ball is actually on the court. The NBA YouTube channel puts highlight videos with all the ads and stoppages cut out and it’s so refreshing to watch.

FearHeWhoFearNothing | Lakers

1 | 12 hours ago

Yeah its fantastic. For regular season hoops the highlights is good enough for me. Unfortunate that the live feed is riddled with these challenges and ads break

Constant_Charge_4528 | Bulls

3 | 11 hours ago

It’s not even highlights, the plays are all in full, it’s just uninterrupted balling and it’s great.

Plastic-Molasses-549

7 | 12 hours ago

Adam Silver: “This is very much a highlights-based sport.”

mikey_mod | Bucks

48 | 11 hours ago

On court refs shouldn’t be involved. Ref in replay center makes call, should take 15 seconds tops

TruckThunders00

7 | 3 hours ago

I’ve been saying this for so long.

the refs involved in making the challenged call have no business reviewing it. they’re essentially investigating themselves, which is a conflict of interest.

One or multiple officials at the replay center review the challenged play and make the call with the benefit replays and tells the refs on the floor what the call is.

it is that simple.

CJ4ROCKET | Rockets

37 | 12 hours ago

The fact that they couldn’t simultaneously review for both whether to upgrade the offensive foul to a flagrant and whether to change the call to a defensive foul is ridiculous

KickATrain | Rockets

6 | 4 hours ago

genuinely comical that they waste 5 minutes reviewing something and then immediately waste another 5 reviewing it again

mucho-gusto | CLE

22 | 12 hours ago

Wish the NBA hadn’t used bullshit version of elam in the all star game, it’s like they’re literally trying to discredit it by making it a whole fucking quarter when it should just be the last 3 or 4

HokageEzio | Knicks

18 | 12 hours ago

Elam ending is just lame for real games. Every game should not come down to a game winner.

The real issue is that intentionally fouling is too beneficial in tight games. If you remove the free throw game, you cut all of that nonsense out.

BigCrawgaDawga | Thunder

5 | 12 hours ago

Also most coaches try to say their challenge for the very end. Then you might as well use it even if it’s dumb

Constant_Charge_4528 | Bulls

2 | 11 hours ago

Yeah it’s just them playing by the rules of the game

jlluh

0 | 11 hours ago

How to remove the free throw game without using the elam ending:

In the last 4 minutes, fouled teams get to subtract their remaining shot clock from the game clock. There is no longer any incentive to intentionally foul since it doesn’t stop the shot clock.

If you want to make it “fair,“ (and also mostly end the defense fouling up 3) you could allow the trailing team to add their remaining shot clock to the game clock when they’re fouled.

HokageEzio | Knicks

9 | 11 hours ago

I get what you’re going for but I think you’re complicating things a little too much manipulating the game clock.

jlluh

1 | 11 hours ago

Yeah.

On the other hand, I’m following the simplest and most universal rule of rulemaking that I know: to stop people from breaking a rule, the consequence must include them not getting the thing they broke the rule to get.

If you wanna actually end the foul game, you need to accomplish that somehow. And teams are playing the foul game to get time.

Elam does it somewhat indirectly, by making time worthless. My idea does it by directly by confiscating the time they hoped to make off with.

There may be another way, but I don’t know what it is.

I for one would love to end the foul game. It’s so boring.

HokageEzio | Knicks

4 | 11 hours ago

Time isn’t the main thing they foul for. They foul to get more possessions. More possessions means more chances to score and more chances the other team misses.

You have to take away the advantage of getting the ball back. That’s what would stop teams. Just make intentional fouling unsportsmanlike so the other team keeps it if you don’t make a real play on the ball.

jlluh

2 | 11 hours ago

That might help. I like your clarification that they’re doing it to get possessions. That is more precise.

I’m afraid players will just move into the gray area and say, “we were going for the steal.”

I suppose you could turn a two shot foul into one shot + possession, like a technical? Don’t love it tho. It’s more valuable than a second shot.

asasasasasassin | Supersonics

3 | 9 hours ago

what if there was a triple bonus that happened after your fourth (or maybe third) foul solely during the last two minutes of a quarter (or possibly just the 4th quarter), where on the fifth and subsequent foul the other team gets 1 shot + possession. Wouldn’t stop all intentional late game fouling but it would kind of keep it to a minimum and cut it off after a certain point

jlluh

1 | 9 hours ago

I like that.

That cuts it enough I wouldn’t even mind making it two shots plus possession.

Whether it should be after 3rd or 4th foul is I think a question for number crunching and spreadsheets.

HokageEzio | Knicks

1 | 11 hours ago

Going for a real steal or stop shouldn’t be discouraged though.

jlluh

1 | 10 hours ago

Yeah, I’m just concerned that the rule would be less effective because once guys “weren’t allowed” to intentionally foul, they would get good at disguising an intentional foul as an attempt at a steal, and there would be most of the same final effect.

mucho-gusto | CLE

-3 | 12 hours ago

I don’t understand, are you arguing for overtime? You’re not arguing for ties, correct? Personally I’d rather decide the game in regulation, overtime periods in sports rarely resemble the real thing

HokageEzio | Knicks

6 | 12 hours ago

I’m saying I don’t enjoy the concept of the Elam Ending in real games at all. I don’t like the idea of a race to a certain amount of points determining the winner of a basketball game. Playing against the clock is part of basketball, just like playing to 27 outs is part of baseball.

I think you’re changing too much taking that away, and I think there are far more logical ways to speed up the game without changing the core of how a basketball game ends.

skratsda | Thunder

3 | 11 hours ago

I’m in agreement with you on the Elam Ending side. An idea I just had (which may have already been posited frequently - I’ve never been to the Sloan conference), is some variation of free throws in the last two minutes are one shot and possession of the ball if it’s made. Retains the penalty for fouling, but increases the suspense around the one free throw and gets rid of the dead time between the two free throws.

Kind of drafts off the college 1-and-1 approach, which is superior in my opinion.

HokageEzio | Knicks

2 | 11 hours ago

Well they’ve been testing one free throw for all points anyway, but it cuts off in the last 2 minutes and OT.

Free throws and the ball would be pretty intense, but it might be a little overboard. Maybe do it like the bonus where you get two or three fouls in the last 2 minutes before that.

mucho-gusto | CLE

0 | 11 hours ago

Eh have you watched the basketball tournament? The clock still exists until the end. All it takes away is the clock game and ot

HokageEzio | Knicks

6 | 11 hours ago

Taking away OT is dumb.

dwrek24 | Spurs

1 | 11 hours ago

Yeah to each their own but much like Tim Duncan, I love free basketball.

tinybathroomfaucet | Supersonics

0 | 11 hours ago

Why?

HokageEzio | Knicks

4 | 11 hours ago

Because it’s taking away one of the most intense parts of the game that already rarely happens.

tinybathroomfaucet | Supersonics

1 | 11 hours ago

With the Elam ending you also get intense games. It’s just different

HokageEzio | Knicks

5 | 11 hours ago

It’s different for the sake of being different. Every game or every OT game should not end in a game winner. Game winners are cool because they’re rare.

mucho-gusto | CLE

1 | 8 hours ago

Intense? Most guys are completely gassed by then, that’s not basketball

BigCrawgaDawga | Thunder

1 | an hour ago

I kind of agree, but think the solution could be making OT 2 or 3 minutes instead of 5

stridered | Suns

13 | 10 hours ago

This is one of the biggest problem in the NBA.

For the neutrals, blowouts are terrible to watch and close games are even worse due to all the timeouts, reviews and free throws.

Zestyclose-Camp3553

8 | 12 hours ago

Was awful, felt like 30-40 mins.

HokageEzio | Knicks

5 | 12 hours ago

Hoops the way Dr. Naismith intended

ThinkWerewolf3003

6 | 12 hours ago

Yeah I’m all for a time limit cap on reviews. I can understand wanting to get it right but it’s unreasonable for some of these replays to go 2 minutes or longer when you are looking at multiple angles frame by frame.

At that point you should be able to determine if the call can be overturned. These reviews also seem to go much quicker in MLB and the NHL.

drummer_dang

1 | an hour ago

But then you can’t make microbets on the outcome of the call

Adam Silver actually believes this. The game will NOT be speeding back up

ThirdEyeKaiii

5 | 12 hours ago

Unpopular opinion but I think teams shouldn’t be allowed to foul in the last 24 seconds when being up 3. Just cheapens the game and turns into a free throw contest for no reason. Just man up and play D

Constant_Charge_4528 | Bulls

4 | 11 hours ago

Lol if that’s the case I’m not gonna be playing defence I’m playing rugby

JeramiGrantsTomb | Thunder

3 | 10 hours ago

They just need to make fouls declinable. Still counts as a foul on a player toward their six, no free throws, side out. Works late game, works for hack a Shaq.

liljaytweakin | Warriors

2 | 11 hours ago

So what happens when you’re dribbling and i just bump into you and the ball goes out of bounds ? Because if im up 3 thats exactly what i would do if they wont call fouls

ThirdEyeKaiii

3 | 11 hours ago

Obviously meant an intentional foul (wrapping up). A common foul on the floor should result in a side out inbound (regardless of whether they’re in the bonus or not). And a shooting foul should be 2-3 FTs per usual.

Basically no over the limit hacks to get them to shoot 2 while down 3 and end their possession

tinybathroomfaucet | Supersonics

2 | 11 hours ago

I’ve got an idea. When they do foul, it’s 2 free throws. That should be a good enough deterrent

Akipella | Warriors

6 | 10 hours ago

People who say we overexaggerate how bad it is, here you go

shaq_zak | Magic

5 | 10 hours ago

More timeouts, more reviews, more FTs, more stoppages full stop = less viewers. How does the NBA not fix this shit. I have found myself tuning out of close games because it just goes on for so long I get bored.

KickATrain | Rockets

4 | 4 hours ago

reminder that adam silver wants stoppages in play to increase prop bets from gamblers. gamblers are the target audience now

Jesuds

2 | 12 hours ago

Remove coachs challenges. Why do we need em?

ProfWPresser

9 | 10 hours ago

Because refs suck ass at their jobs

BigCrawgaDawga | Thunder

2 | 12 hours ago

Just have replay assist like the NFL

HE_A_FAN_HE_A_FAN | United States

1 | 37 minutes ago

The Chiefs had to challenge a call that replay assist incorrectly overturned lol. Replay assist also fucked the Commanders against the Broncos when Mariota got tripped up and they couldn’t call it

mookx | Trail Blazers

2 | 11 hours ago

I think you give a TV ref real time override, no charge, on any dead ball. No extra stoppage. Teams get 1 challenge a half where a TV ref has 60 seconds.

Not_RZA_ | Lakers

2 | 8 hours ago

Couldn’t agree more. The last 2 minutes (of clock) are the worst part of the modern NBA. In every other sport, the final minutes are the MOST entertaining portions.

You dont need to review every minuscule detail and if you do, there should be 3rd party reviews to speed it up like MLB or NFL does it.

lambopanda | Rockets

1 | 11 hours ago

Only 16 min and 55 sec? It felt like 30 min.

Pardonme23 | Lakers

1 | 9 hours ago

Sky judge is and always has been the answer

ameans47 | Bulls

1 | 7 hours ago

But how may extra ads were they able to get in with all that additional time? The NBA improving its product is hindered by its greed. How are they gonna not knee increasing contracts without more ads.

j1h15233 | HOU

1 | 6 hours ago

The review process needs an entire overhaul. It’s way too slow and happens way too often.

dandpher

1 | 4 hours ago

Blame gambling

redmostofit | Nuggets

1 | 4 hours ago

Running joke when my partner says it’s time to go somewhere. “Babe there’s like 1 minute… left on the clock 😏” She knows too well by now what that means.

TurkNowitzki28 | Rockets

1 | 3 hours ago

The officials reviewed Jabari for a flagrant off an offensive rebound. Forced Ime to challenge if it was a foul. They could’ve did all of that in one review.

I think they shouldn’t have looked at anything Jabari did if they aren’t calling a foul on the clippers in that moment. Felt like some Vegas shit

Malemansam | Spurs

1 | an hour ago

I remember discussing here when video reviews were proposed by the league to being implemented the next season that it would ruin the game and was met with a lot of push back here.

In rugby league when it was introduced well before the NBA it slowed the game down drastically, calls would take forever with every fucking camera angle being scrutinised and I knew the same thing would happen with NBA’s.

It should be capped like it eventually was in Rugby. They did it right in the Olympics, 2 mins max, often only 20 seconds, walk over see 2-3 angles once and call it. Get on with the fucking game.

I swear to god they waste time to just give players rest especially older teams like the Lakers and Clippers and ad breaks.

brickvanexel | Celtics

1 | 8 minutes ago

I’d like for reviews to allow at most three replays of the challenged play, no slow motion. If evidence is “clear and conclusive”, it should be obvious at full speed in three looks. If it isn’t, challenge is unsuccessful and we keep shit moving.

I’d also like to legislate out fouling up 3 somehow, like intentional fouls by the leading team under 3 mins up 3+ is shots and the ball, but I’m less married to that one

Vince_-

0 | 12 hours ago

I’d rather have games decided fairly then speed up the process and go back to what it used to be.

UnkleAdams247

0 | 10 hours ago

i was playing eu5 while watching it and im so glad i booted up to tab out during that

FFElite93

-2 | 12 hours ago

Disagree I want them to get the calls right

BigCrawgaDawga | Thunder

11 | 12 hours ago

We’re letting perfect be the enemy of good.

ProfWPresser

2 | 10 hours ago

Dawg imma be real with you. I dont think the calls were within the same ZIP code as anything that could be considered “good”.

Jabari was fouled before touching anyone and they didnt call that.

Then Kawhi went for a very normal drive and they called it for no reason.

Like I cant even be mad at the coaches for challenging the decisions when they are that shit.

The last 17.2 seconds of the Rockets/Clippers