Jaylen Brown on what it takes to be a great player: “If you wanna be a great player, you gotta sell your soul. You gotta be a flopper. If you wanna be an MVP, you wanna be top of the top, you gotta sell your soul and just be a flopper.“
what playing against embiid 40 times does to a mf
Embiid’s whistle being what it was is still absolutely insane lol
I’ve never seen a big man get 50⁄50 calls against guards every single time like he did
He literally averages like 30% more (0.26 vs. 0.2) FTs per minute than ANYONE in NBA history and this is with being a great FT shooter unlike most of the other names around him
He flops so fucking much and chokes in the playoffs every single time. Got his pity MVP so he’s happy though
MVPity
Perk deserves so much credit for conning voters and basically turning this into “if you vote Jokic instead of Embiid, you’re pretty much racist”.
Then proceeds to vote for Giannis that year. HOF Jerker.
Still living rent free too. Its the good life
Why is the narrative that he’s happy and satisfied?Why do people assume that’s all he wanted instead of winning and potentially actually passing the second round?
His numbers are definitely insane - 11.29 career FTA/36 mins, just insanely far ahead of #2 (Shaq at 9.66): https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fta_per_mp_career.html
I will say though, even as a Raps fan and bona fide Embiid hater, it wasn’t JUST flopping. Prime Embiid was a rare combo of:
I don’t think he was necessarily more of a flopper than guys like Harden, DWade, Luka, SGA, Trae, Jimmy Butler, etc., but he was on par with them, and also had that “gotta foul him to stop him” element. The combo made him the FTA GOAT.
He was probably the top big man flopper I’ve seen, though - elite flopping is normally more of a small man’s game.
Interesting side note - Embiid actually got advised by his doctor and medical staff to fall down at the slightest contact or even anticipated contact, to save him from leg and foot injuries. I’m not defending or siding with him at all - his flopping drives me nuts - but it makes me wonder if big men in general in the NBA who have flopping reputations are actually being directed to do that behind closed doors.
https://sports.yahoo.com/joel-embiid-is-abiding-by-doctors-orders-in-falling-down-all-the-time-144708368.html
lol
What playing against Brunson does to a mf
or SGA
First he goes at Scottie and now this 😭
Adam Silver gonna pull up to his crib
I can only hope the more attention stuff like this gets, we can finally get rid of this foul bait, flopping nonsense that ruins the nba. It’s so maddening that Silver allows it.
With Ja
He sold his soul 🥀
If you wanna be a top streamer, you gotta sell your soul and say the most stupidest shit ever to get some traction.
he’s on MPJ type run
Steph:
”???????????”
Steph is the opposite of a flopper, dude gets the most uncalled fouls of any player I’ve ever seen. If he even had a fair whistle, he’d have averaged 35 in his primer and if he was a successful flopper like Embiid or Shai, he’d average like 38-40
Go and watch pre prime and prime Lebron. Nobody - ever - got fouled more and less calls. Curry probably has a case, but nobody remotely comes close to Lebron, which is why he started what I call the way of Kobe and manufacturing fouls.
That’s fair, Lebron didn’t flop at the time and was an absolute powerhouse so it never looked like the contact mattered. But Curry is a small guard who does get hit and knocked down a lot or swiped and he’ll have red marks on his arm or even blood a couple times and still not get a call
But you are right, Lebron didn’t flop and drove a shit ton early on in his career and it was beautiful to watch
Dwight got fouled 24⁄7 and they just let people maul him
Sheer glaze lmao
The problem with someone like LeBron is that he’s so much bigger and stronger so a lot of contact just bounces right off him and doesn’t phase him so it goes unnoticed even though he’s technically fouled. Shaq had a similar issue.
If you think LeBron got fouled a lot with no calls, go watch Shaq. Dude literally had 2-3 guys clubbing him, hanging on his back and arms, jumping on him… and even though he got to the line a lot, most of the time these things happened, refs just let them play on. It was like nothing I’ve ever seen. Dude was just so big and strong he usually just powered through it and you couldn’t just foul out an entire front line.
Genuinely think Giannis Is comparable
LBJ is up there, but prime Shaq got MANHANDLED constantly and it was never called.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1pdqucs/players_to_score_50_points_with_10_fta_in_3_games/
Just one example.
Steph gets his illegal screens for sacrificing free throws
Steph is the exception here for sure.
Don’t need to flop when you can just make 35 foot shots instead lol
Although with a 93% FT, maybe should have.
They don’t call his actual fouls so doubt they’d call his flops lol. Steph with SGA or Lukas whistle is averaging 35 easily
One of the few players where it may be mathematically advantageous to not flop.
40% from three is 1.2 points per possession, 91% free throw is 1.82 points per possession
Sold his soul to moving screens /s
He sold his soul to Draymond. Those punches costed the warriors a few rings
One could argue that Draymond hitting LeBron in the nuts in 2016 led to their demise, which in turn convinced KD to join them.
Therefore, that one nut punch got them 2 more (almost 3) rings /s
2016 antics and the 2023-2024 offseason Poole fallout hurt us a lot.
2016 injuries* where Steph wasn’t the same. I don’t consider Dray’s antics since he totally made up for it.
Dray showed up in game 7 and had more points, rebounds, and assists than Steph + Klay combined.
Dray also had more points than LeBron and Kyrie; he led the game in scoring and rebounds.
He specifically says “the new generation” and where the game is headed.
If Steph had Luka or SGA’s whistle, he’ll be putting up Wilt numbers.
Steph invented the flopping on 3s
I mean is he wrong? Giannis, Russ, and Curry are the only MVPs of the last decade who weren’t among the worst in the league regarding flops. The last five MVPs have gone to some of the leagues worst offenders in that regard.
Harden and Embiid were in a class of their own when it came to flopping. Even if these dudes still flop now, they don’t even come close to how bad those two were.
https://streamable.com/jvh5wb
jokic compilation against the clippers where he was flopping left and right was generational. I think it’s dumb to single out just them sorry not sorry
He flops for sure, I’m just saying Harden and Embiid were the worst.
Harden would straight rage-bait people with his arm pulling.
And Embiid would fall over so much that he actually started injuring people with his flops.
Jokic seems to flop inconsistently though, some games he’ll flop like crazy and then other games he’s a near perfect gentleman.
Yeah probably exaggerates it when he feels he’s getting hoed on calls.
Though his flopping in last seasons playoffs was egregious. I had a feeling it might have had to do with Murray’s inability to bring the ball up the floor against ball pressure so he’d just flopped to save possessions.
I gotta disagree. These are all from one game: https://youtu.be/YSuK2jLhZGM?si=r44RnkAQzkab4jdb
SGA also had the legendary 26 free throw game.
Sadly Jokic and SGA have gotten just as bad as Harden, Embiid, and Jimmy.
Dawg Jokic is 300 pounds flying in the air like that from Kris Dunn😂
Also, SGA has some video examples that I’ve seen, send those instead cause videos are better proof than just saying “26 free throw game”, that doesn’t tell you how many were flops.
Anyway, that Jokic one is getting close and he’s got some other good clips, but still not as bad as Embiid and Harden were. I gotta pull the tape or something cause people really forgot.
I didn’t include an SGA one because they’re almost always on the front page of this Reddit lol. I just kinda thought that one was accepted, but you can google it if you want.
Nah I’m saying I’ve seen SGA flops myself already, not saying you’re wrong. But the clips are better proof than just a high FT game. Like Giannis has plenty of high FT games but he doesn’t flop at all.
You know who else was a flop king? Marcus Smart. I couldn’t believe that dude won a DPOY, he was one of the first players I ever saw get a flop compilation on youtube
I think only the first of those (from Jokic) were actually called fouls though. To be a great flopper, you have to get the call. Jokic tends to flail about when he’s upset about not getting calls, but it doesn’t lead to more calls.
His 26 Free throw was in double OT cmon now
Where’s the Jimmy flop compilation? Are we really still comparing the way Jimmy gets to the line as Harden???
Jimmy is a baiter, not a flopper. Not saying it’s any better. Lots of his drives he doesn’t seem like he actually intends to score, but just wants contact.
Yes so one is a basketball move and the other is throwing your body around and on the floor flailing aimlessly
Shai erasure
Giannis is a career 69% FT shooter, bad FT shooters rarely flop if at all.
He doesn’t have to flop, he’s getting to the line regardless
I’d rather watch a poor free-throw shooter than players like Embiid, Jokic, and SGA who actively attack the integrity of the game by flopping whenever they can. It gets to a point watching them where it’s not basketball.
To be fair with Jokic, his flops don’t really convert to advantages most of the time lol. And he is definitely getting hacked a lot without repercussion to the defender that’s why he had scratches all the time.
Caruso (my bald goat) was able to “guard” Jokic and deny him the ball last series with the nuggets because he was pretty much allowed to maul him.
Jokic has ramped up his theatrics in the past year or two, but labeling him as one of the worst offenders is so absolutely wrong it’s insane. I assume your basing this opinion off of last years playoffs. You would think if he really did flop his way to 3 mvps there might be some kind of general consensus about him in that regard, but there’s not, cause he didn’t.
Jokic’s arms looks like they get fresh lashings after every game and barely gets any calls
Jokic does flop, but he also has a weak whistle relative to the abuse he gets on the court.
It’s funny coming from a guy who’s played with Tatum his whole career, who is probably flops less than any other superstar in the league.
While Giannis doesn’t abuse the flopping rules he definitely is one of the most egregious carrying rule abusers
I always thought jokic never flopped her barely gets his calls
Next Celtic vs OKC/Denver/Lakers/GSW/Rockets games will be absolute cinema
Don’t forget Knicks (Brunson)
Brunson isn’t even top 20 in the league in free throws per game but ok
Warriors are 24th in free throw attempts a game, we really going after them?
Jimmy does get a lot of calls, but hes at least getting contact unlike some of the more egregious floppers.
Jimmy jumps into people and plays for the foul. Embiid will straight up do a somersault if a mosquito lands on his arm
I don’t like it, but at least Jimmy plays into the rules while some of these guys just do whatever they think (and does) get a whistle.
Jimmy’s a foul baiter. A rip through swipe through type of foul getter.
Flopper’s are like the Embiid-esque fall back or forward on contact even though you are clearly fine
I know next to nothing about Embiids health issues, but my head canon is that he ruined his body with flopping. Shit looks straight dangerous for a man his size, and I always thought it’d catch up with him. Now that he’s sitting so much I’m pretending to be validated
He’s not wrong
Unfortunately he spoke only facts in this clip
Working the referees is now a non-negotiable if you want your 30 a night. It’s the most efficient and reliable way to get yourself in rhythm. Using the dark arts has a very high floor and few downsides because the league is too cowardly to penalize it. If you aren’t working the refs and selling out for 5 extra FTs a week, you aren’t maximizing your game.
It’s even more true now that basically all superstars are high volume scorers and to keep up with the highest volume scorers you definitely have to be drawing some fouls
There aren’t any Magic or Russell types anymore that stake their claim to all-time greatness mostly in other areas of the game basically every top 10-15 player can get minimum 25 PPG
Pretty sure Jokic would like to not be a high volume scorer but the rest of the nuggets aren’t good enough for him to do that
??? He has easily the greatest floater of all time, is a legit pick and pop threat and can get a post hook anytime he wants it. He’s incredibly efficient on every offensive action imaginable. If anything, he should be aggressive and look to score more, as it opens up his passing that much more.
Jokic would be doing a significant disservice to both himself and the team by not utilizing his scoring at a high volume
He’s talking about Jokic’s personal desire which I do think is just taking 10-15 shots a game and distributing. He just wants to win and get his teammates going.
He is one of the best scorers in the league, but if it was up to him and his team didn’t require him to, he would prefer not score much. At least that’s what I think. That’s why you get the occasional passive Jokic game
I didn’t say he was bad you ignoramus, I said it’s not the role he wants to play but he has to because his team needs it. If you watch any nuggets games when the rest of the team is clicking Jokic ends the game with fewer than 10 shots while having 15+ assists. Jokic rarely becomes a high volume shooter unless he feels the team is struggling and needs him to, but the nuggets also usually lose his high scoring games anyway.
I get that point but I think your phrasing is inaccurate. The Nuggets need his scoring threat more than he wants to use it, and that’s not the fault of his “teammates not being good enough”. If anything that is an ignoramus talking point, not mine.
I simply feel its a waste of his amazing ability to give 10 of his shots to the Peyton Watsons and THJs of the world. Id love to see him be more aggressive scoring the ball
Draymond Green is the closest we have
Now? No not just now that has always been the case
U can go to any era and most MVPs and scorers drew a lot of free throws and flopped
Steph Curry?
We need a new commissioner
5 FT a week? Luka and Reeves can pull 15+ free throws in a game. And maybe 4 of them are for real fouls. It’s a travesty
He’s not lying
Pistons fans literally beg for unethical Cade
I don’t. I would hate it.
Same
Wow lol why does he hate the 3-time MVP Nikola Jokic?
Jokic is a massive flopper
He is, but he isn’t even half as good at it as he thinks he is.
Convincing a ref that a 6’1”, 180 lbs guard pushed over Chonkic isn’t easy
Chonkic can mean 2 different people not a good nickname
Exactly
Not in the way Jaylen is talking about. He grifts for weird ass shit on defense or off ball more than shooting fouls. That’s just not in his scoring repertoire the way it is someone like Luka or Shai
Yea he’s a large individual
Jokic is a flopper
Jokic is basically to flopping as Westbrook is to three point shooting volume but no efficiency
He definitely tries but he’s just not very good at actually getting to the line lol
I’d say it’s similar to the issue LeBron has where if you’re a certain size/strength you just look silly falling down when touched by smaller players so you’re not going to get the whistle
Jokic had a hilarious flop on Kris Dunn in the Clippers sereis that looked so funny given the weight differential
Embiid is 7’2 900 pounds and gets the calls
Jokic is awful at it, he also picks awful times to do it against smaller players
I think it’s cuz the smaller players get away with a ton of hand checking, but yea he needs to slow the flopping down
Also Jokic did not flop early in his career. It’s only in the last 2-3 years that he’s “sold his soul” to use Jaylen Brown’s words to start trying to game the officials.
I’ve thought about this for a while… so you think he gets more calls flopping or less? Because I think even if he gets 1⁄20 flops, that’s still 1 more call out of the 20 he wouldn’t get.
It’s unfortunate and makes him look stupid af but that’s just the league they play in
Honestly a good 30-40% of Jokic’s missed shots are failed attempts to draw fouls he just throws it up and hopes they’ll blow the whistle
I’d say it’s probably not worth it relative to how often he successfully foul baits
True, on that point I agree, I was more thinking about the off-ball fouls.
Maybe he needs someone to go through replays showing him the calls he’s losing compared to getting and telling him to stop it lol. Like just find the “your flopping is more detrimental than beneficial” stat to show him
I would argue that Jokic started flopping after he started getting hacked every other possession. I mean what’s a dude supposed to do if he is on the receiving end of extremely physical defence which other players get whistled for? Maybe that’s what Brown is alluding to, that he sold his soul and said fuck it I’m gonna start flopping
Totally, couldn’t believe how bad he was getting hacked here https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/IVvReUQT9y
Yall always find a way to find a excuse for him omfg he flops to get advantage like every1 else but only he gets a rationalization and a fake one too.
Despite what people want to tell you free throw drawing is a skill and has always been
There’s a reason Corey Magette averaged more free throws than even Lebron
It’s not selling your soul some players just know how to draw contact better, others don’t
The best examples of this are Curry/Kyrie who are amazing offensive players and finishers but just have zero idea how to sell contact usually avoid bumping players and finish with flair and then u have Jimmy fucking Butler who pump fakes 20 times while bumping players and can get free throws more than prime Shaq
You dont think maybe SGA is the best example of this? The actual reigning MVP and person Brown is more than likely alluding to…
I’m just arguing that it’s a skill and not everyone has that, some MVPs did others don’t
It’s not necessarily flopping, Jimmy Butler isn’t a known flopper or an MVP but he gets to the line while way better MVP players like Jokic don’t
SGA has that for sure no one can argue that
Butler is absolutely a known fucking flopper you can’t be serious
I don’t know about Curry/Kyrie having zero idea how to sell contact. There are few players who have integrity to their game. I know how to flop in pick up games and even more tempting when the opposing players are doing it, but I really dislike doing it. Not my game and I don’t want any part of it and don’t want to be a hypocrite.
You wouldn’t get free throws at your park pick up games, why bring that up
LeBron was actually pretty good at getting to the line early in his career. His whistle got noticeable worse halfway through his Heat stint and just really bad in his 2nd stint with the Cavs. He still gets hacked on nearly every drive today but rarely any free throws
LeBron should have gotten Giannis level of free throws and never did, even in his early Cavs stint he should have gotten more, he never led the league in FTA
He was just not good at selling it
Kevin Martin drew more free throws than 2009 LeBron who was the freakiest Lebron faster than Miami LeBron and just as strong
difference between flopping and aggressively driving till defense was forced to foul you like Maggette did
current NBA player admitting this in his prime but redditors think oldheads are the ones bitching about the game
This year has been particularly crazy with the FTAs for teams, seems like the league is shifting into a new meta of foul grifting
The only thing holding Jaylen Brown back from being an MVP: Integrity
/s
JB cookin tonight
i’m enjoying this Jaylen Brown streaming era
Is this a shot a Shai? The Celtics vs OKC games should be a fun time.
I think it’s a shot at the league/refs
Haha no it’s a clear shot at Shai
This could apply to almost every top player, his own teammate included, throwing your head back and “AYE”ing is how stars make that leap, playing the game well AND playing the refs
His own teammate as in Tatum, who has the second worst superstar whistle in the league behind Steph?
Idk about that. Tatum “AYE!”’s but he very rarely flops.
Tbh playing for and exaggerating contact is so ingrained in the league now that it isn’t seen for what it is and most only call out the blatant( ie bad attempts) examples. It is the exception for a superstar to drive and NOT constantly wave their hands while throwing their head back. Whether they’re being fouled or not, they’re trying to sell something to the refs, and that relationship sadly DOES make huge difference.
Specifically talking about Tatum and whether he does this every play misses the point, it’s a huge and un appealing part of the game across the board
Celtics recent history says otherwise lol. Kyrie used to absolutely get clobbered for the 2 seasons he was here. The War On Theis was a joke with a lot of truth in it. Tatum has some of the softest techs in NBA history. Meanwhile, we’ve seen Jimmy, Embiid, Giannis go full speed elbows and shoulders first against them.
Shai is gonna destroy them like always
Ya think?
SGA right now is 100x better at basketball than Flat Earth boy could ever dream of
As evidenced by the two most recent MVPs, Flopic and FTA
FTA is a pretty elite nickname.
that’s coming from a laker flake id take that with a bucket salt, The real FTA is on his team lol
The only thing I’m getting from this thread is there’s people on this sub that would personally wash Jokic’s balls postgame. Every single comment thread has people conceding he does flop but it’s not that bad as if none of us have eyes.
Half this subreddit seems to have either Shai or Jokic Derangement Syndrome lately. Jokic averages 7 free throws a game. So does Jaylen Brown, by the way. Is this really what we’re getting upset about?
Absolutely hilarious to see the amount of Lakers flairs in here bitching about stars flopping as well
Jokic and Murray combined attempt 1 less free throw than Luka per game. Don’t know why bro’s mad with a Lakers flair.
Jaylen Brown is now my favorite NBA player
He was one of the first to say he didnt think bronny was an nba player, tho he didnt broadcast it
Jaylen brown will be phenomenal when he retires as a streamer/analyst/broadcaster
He isnt wrong. Same with soccer. Any advantage you can get within the rules of the game.
Shots FIRED! Dude
He bouta get less calls now more then ever watch
The Shai IG caption when we beat them by 30 is actually going to be legendary.
What rhymes with flopper
League topper.
Playoff dropper
Really not looking forward to that, but am looking forward to matching up with you guys next year.
Side question for you, who in your opinion is the best SGA defender in the league?
Personally I think the best SGA defender in the league is either Amen Thompson or Herb Jones. Idk if the numbers support it but from my memory, Sga tends to put in a lot more effort to score on them than anyone else. I’d also throw Jaden Mcdaniels in there as well. All 3 of them are quick enough, strong enough and long enough to give him trouble and force him to rely on the middy.
Ah I can definitely see it being Herb.
Do you recall Tatum guarding SGA at all in our previous matchups? To me he seemed to really affect him, but it was only several possessions where they matched up.
I remember one of the games last year JT guarded SGA for a few possessions I think in the 4th quarter and did a great job.
I’d include Tatum and Camara as good SGA defenders. The numbers might or might not support it but they definitely make it tougher for him to score
It’s understanding the reffing meta, if you figure out how they whistle you can engineer plays that look like fouls. Prime Harden did that then they changed the calls and he wasn’t 40pts every night Harden.
He not exactly wrong. Majority of the star players(past and present) foul bait and flop here and there.
Jaylen “Small Glizzy Alexander” Brown
Shots fired
Man I wouldn’t jump up to get those grapes, I bet they’re sour.
that’s why i hope flagg hit jimmy butler number in offseason
Ever since the “decision”, the NBA is degrading. Nowadays, these dude literally don’t play basketball, just soft and abhorrent
Don’t do it JB. You already top of the top, champion and FMVP
What if they enforced any flopping rule
Nosferatu snatching souls now ig
You know some of these people need to know what to keep to themselves
Yeah man that’s the reason I haven’t won the MVP too.
Great timing from Jaylen Brown, talking about the brand-new invention of flopping 62 years after this Sports Illustrated piece.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140520012232/http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1075469/
That’s gotta sting(for the Refs and the NBA).
I hope the refs have some pride at all the criticism they are getting for encouraging flopping.
Jaylen gets away with a million push offs a game lmao I’m not sure he’s the one who should be saying this
Or just be like Jokic
kyrie?
So sad tbh…
Everyone vilifying him as if the majority of stars don’t flop regularly
Haha salty fuck. Go talk shit to gramps
he’s right. free throws are more valuable than 2s and 3s.
Still better than selling your soul to the Rock.
Bitter doesn’t look good on you brother
Is he quoting that “Him” film?
What the fuck did happen during that stream? Is his inner Kyrie taking over?
NBA is the best soap opera for men. Don’t even care about the Celtics like that but I watch his streams
Sell your soul is a little much jaylen
We’ve been saying this since LBJ came to the league.