Ready-Constant-7124

617 | 12 hours ago

So much of Denver’s system relies on having an offensively skilled big which was part of their issue in previous years because they’d have literally no system when Jokic sat it would be just chuck shots and pray

Jonas is kind of the perfect fit because he’s a very good offensive player the main reason he doesn’t start somewhere is because he’s slow and not a versatile defender and Jokic isn’t especially switchable either so that’s not a major dropoff

F_CKMONEY | Knicks

254 | 12 hours ago

It’s crazy that the Nuggets thought washed Dario Saric could be that guy and even crazier that the Kings traded for him given how much of a disaster he was last year

TossThatPastaSalad | Nuggets

126 | 12 hours ago

Saric felt like a a shot in the dark from Calvin Booth because we watched him be okay in Golden State in limited minutes. The major issue was paying him anything above a vet minimum.

But yeah, getting off that terrible deal was incredible. Now if they could just do it with Nnaji and find us a backup point guard that doesn’t need many minutes and can kinda defend.

Proof-Umpire-7718 | Lakers

45 | 11 hours ago

Saric getting a player option in the 2024 offseason was absurd.

Some backup pgs that can defend are Keon Ellis, Ochai Agbaji, Jose Alvarado, or even Gabe Vincent if we trade him elsewhere or to you guys as part of a multi team deal.

PuttyRiot

20 | 11 hours ago

I’m Keon’s number one fan but he isn’t a pg.

TossThatPastaSalad | Nuggets

20 | 11 hours ago

He’s not. But, he can handle the ball well enough that playing in concert with Murray and/or Brown would be ideal.

I don’t think he’s available but I’d love Keon on the Nuggets.

PuttyRiot

12 | 10 hours ago

Honestly, even as one of the seventeen people in the world who actually owns a Keon jersey, I would probably love to see him play just about anywhere at this point.* I just want the man to be allowed to play. I’m glad other fans respect his game.

*except the Lakers, obviously.

Edit to add: he is probably available. Kings FO are looking to blow it up. I think only Keegan is off the table.

Edit again: wherever he lands instantly becomes my second favorite team.

TossThatPastaSalad | Nuggets

5 | 10 hours ago

I should probably edit it to ‘ I don’t think he’d be available to the Nuggets’ as I think we’d have to find some way to dump Nnaji to fit the contract. And I don’t think we have the assets right now to do both of those things.

IndependenceLate3415 | Nuggets

3 | 10 hours ago

In Ben Wallace we trust

PuttyRiot

2 | 10 hours ago

Keon’s contract is cheap. Maybe if y’all took care of the Kings’ Zach Lavine problem they would bundle Keon for Nnaji. I think that’s the most likely way Kings part with Keon. As a sweetner to move off Zach (preferred) or Sabonis.

I cannot believe we have reached a point where I’m openly discussing moving Keon. This season has broken us.

ElCaz | Raptors

1 | 7 hours ago

Agbaji is a wing.

Devilsbullet | Heat

6 | 11 hours ago

I would be mad as fuck but happy for him if it happened and y’all won another ring, but dru smith. Decent shooter, takes care of the ball, does more than kind of defend. Currently 26th in steals per game, there’s only one other player in the top 50 playing sub 20 mpg and they’re 49th. 18th in total steals, have to go down to number 54 to find someone else that’s played less than 400 minutes. Leads the league in steals per 36 and per 100. Passes the eye test as well

Hydrauxine | Nuggets

4 | 6 hours ago

feels like every shot Booth took was in the dark HAHAHHAHA

AngryNephew | LAL

2 | 8 hours ago

How would CP3 be in that role?

NoExcuses1984 | Supersonics

1 | 31 minutes ago

“Now if they could just do it with Nnaji and find us a backup point guard that doesn’t need many minutes and can kinda defend.”

Jose Alvarado would be perfect in Denver.

GizzyGazzelle

55 | 12 hours ago

Saric 5M this year.

Valunciunuas 10M this year and next.

I suspect the Kings decision had little to do with who was a better player.

Sidereel | Kings

6 | 8 hours ago

It was always a move to free up salary. The problem is they freed up that salary to get Schroeder when the needed Jonas more.

Hopsalong | Nuggets

3 | 12 hours ago

Saric can be a good ball player, but not on Denver. He was decently good on the warriors who had a ton of spacing and let him 1v1 in the post. On Denver, we need him to set screens on the perimeter and pass, which aren’t his strengths.

faithfuljohn | Raptors

13 | 11 hours ago

wait until they hit the playoffs… JV is a beast in the playoffs.

marcowhatever

5 | 7 hours ago

my ass watching Dwayne Casey not run plays for JV

Compared-To-What | Raptors

3 | 6 hours ago

I am the biggest JV fan…wwwicktory baby!

But he was/is a defensive liability. Even compared to Joker, JV has terrible footwork, defense spacing/IQ.

He’s very underrated offensively for a big tho.

poohster33

4 | 6 hours ago

LITHUANIAN LIGHTNING!

Compared-To-What | Raptors

3 | 5 hours ago

Death, taxes and JVs 3s!

Mother_Event_6736

5 | 10 hours ago

Denver and OKC is the matchup I hope to see the most in the Playoffs!

RecreationallyTransp | NBA

1 | 2 hours ago

write to your local nba representative that you don’t want to see Fiesty Defense^TM from Caruso on Jokic

swizznastic

2 | 7 hours ago

He fits great in that system bc the system is designed to cover some of jokics flaws and thrive on his strengths. Jonas has similar flaws and strengths, he’s jokic lite.

loombisaurus | Spurs

1 | 10 hours ago

I was at the Spurs game last week and told the friend I brought all about the Jonas to Greece drama over the summer and they were tickled and said aw well I hope he’s not cold here

[deleted]

2 | 8 hours ago

[deleted]

LastDanceW-MaryJane | Nuggets

5 | 7 hours ago

Malone didn’t play him cuz he was always in foul trouble lol. He was not a net positive on the nuggets

ReindeerFl0tilla

5 | 7 hours ago

Right. Hartenstein has grown as a player since leaving Denver.

liddellpool | Georgia

1 | 6 hours ago

This is Mason Plumlee erasure

Kgb725 | Cavaliers

1 | 2 hours ago

I think thats why westbrook did so well last year they actually had someone competent enough to run an offense and pass the ball outside of joker

Colorapt0r | Bucks

211 | 12 hours ago

Val is great but brown and hardaway also contribute to this. Just a great offseason by Denver and a huge indictment on Calvin booth

Ayjel89

77 | 12 hours ago

Watson had also been solid for them off the bench before the Braun/AG injuries pushed him into the starting lineup.

EggplantAlpinism | Nuggets

62 | 11 hours ago

Booth being simultaneously a terrible GM, insanely arrogant, and petty enough to feud with his head coach, should make him unemployable forever

Stu__Pidasso | Nuggets

21 | 11 hours ago

All hinged off the MPJ trade. Glad MPJ is living his best life in Brooklyn, but the depth and financial flexibility is so valuable in this new cap era

isaacz321 | LAC

-9 | 12 hours ago

Hardaways been good but browns been awful. Nuggets would much prefer having Westbrook over him

BobbitsC | Nuggets

18 | 11 hours ago

He’s been pretty fine aside from his three point shooting. He’s gotten to the rim a lot like Westbrook but doesn’t throw the ball away as much. His playmaking has been solid and his defense is good. The difference between Russ and Bruce is just consistency. Russ’ best is better than Bruce, but his worst is a lot worse. I think the nuggets wanted to go with the safer option especially with a more solid overall bench

isaacz321 | LAC

1 | 11 hours ago

Idk 7ppg on 52ts% is pretty putrid scoring for someone who has the ball a bit and plays 23mpg. Small sample but epm of -3.8 is one of the worst in the league and the defense isn’t a big positive at least according to that stat.

Russ defense not as good and he’s also inefficient but he scores 13 and playmakes way more than brown

Gyff3 | Nuggets

12 | 11 hours ago

I liked Russ, but he would shoot them out of games trying to make an impact. Bruce knows his role and doesn’t try to do too much. He just slots in as the backup PG and plays hard.

isaacz321 | LAC

-2 | 11 hours ago

Idk about that. Russ playing hard was never a concern. Bruce is shooting 47% on 2s he’s been bricking layups and floaters. Russ is known for bricking layups but at least he shot over 50% on 2s last year

Gyff3 | Nuggets

6 | 11 hours ago

The volume is the important part though. Bruce isn’t coming in and trying to be the leading bench scorer, he’s just taking what’s given to him in the flow of the game. Russ no doubt won the Nuggets games last year, but he also lost them some. Bruce won’t have negative impact like that because he isn’t putting up the same volume, for better or worse. It’s just more consistent.

isaacz321 | LAC

2 | 11 hours ago

Sure but Russ was below average on shots at rim (33 percentile) and horrible at mid range shots tbf(12 percentile). Bruce is 25 percentile at scoring at rim but literally the worst mid range shooter in the league. Hes shooting 22% from the mid range. That’s a big difference. Bruce is consistent yes, consistently horrible at scoring rn inside the arc and not hot from 3 either

BobbitsC | Nuggets

3 | 11 hours ago

I mean epm is not a great stat simply because it’s an estimate, but regardless he’s been fine. Just be watching him play you can tell that he’s been doing his job. He obviously isn’t the scorer he used to be but again he’s just there to handle the ball a bit

isaacz321 | LAC

2 | 11 hours ago

We’ll see I don’t think he’s a rotation guy in the playoffs. You guys will be 7-8 deep depending on Watsons shooting. I watched the nuggets quite a bit too I don’t like what I see at all for him in the playoffs. Finally an estimate never is so far off a -4 player(below replacement lvl) is actually an average player

BobbitsC | Nuggets

1 | 11 hours ago

I heavily disagree there. I think he’ll be pretty good in the playoffs simply because of the veteran experience. Watson has been a legitimate starting level player recently so there’s no worries there. If anything they’ll be deeper than expected assuming the give Spencer jones a full contract

isaacz321 | LAC

1 | 11 hours ago

Spencer isn’t playing a minute in the playoffs come on haha. He doesn’t get guarded at the 3pt line. We’ll see with Watson. That shooting doesn’t always hold up in the playoffs for young guys and then they don’t see the floor. Only 2 im sure about are Jonas and hardaway

BobbitsC | Nuggets

1 | 11 hours ago

Spencer jones is a 40% three point shooter and was in the g league as well lol. You’re getting benching if you start leaving a guy like that open, despite his ugly shooting form. He’s also possibly the best defender on the team. Legitimately his only issue is that he gets a bad whistle because he’s a nobody and the refs don’t give guys like the benefit of the doubt that they’d give vets. I don’t expect him to get many minutes but they’d be foolish to give him none. And I don’t think there’s much of a reason to think watson’s shooting won’t continue to be solid. He’s a streaky shooter but he’s always been good from the corners. Combined with the fact that his finished has improved a lot, he’s kinda like Christian Braun

isaacz321 | LAC

1 | 11 hours ago

On less than 2 attempts I don’t really care about the percentage that much. For now defenses don’t respect him at all and he kills spacing when he comes in. That whistle problem isn’t going improve in the playoffs either.

Obviously I’m exaggerating to make a point saying he doesn’t get a single minute. However I think the majority of the nuggets playoff games he will get a dnp and I’ll be surprised if he plays over 10mpg in any competitive playoff game

yeahhhhhboiii | Nuggets

1 | 11 hours ago

The bad whistle thing is so painfully true it’s fucking ridiculous. He also does legitimately foul a little too much, but the refs give him no respect at all. It’s nice to have one of these OKC archetype players now, but guarantee he’d be getting much more leeway in a Thunder jersey.

hacxgames | Nuggets

1 | 11 hours ago

how so depending on watson’s shooting? he’s a great POA defender, he’ll be getting some minutes regardless. probably some spencer jones mixed in & i’m sure bruce brown will regress back to his career%

isaacz321 | LAC

1 | 11 hours ago

Well some minutes but when I say rotation guy I mean he’s playing like 15+ not just spot minutes. Then he’ll need good shooting. Possible with Bruce but he had these percentages last year too. Granted 2 yrs ago he was fine

_smilax | Nuggets

0 | 9 hours ago

Both have a tendency to miss open layups and 3pters so it’s kind of a wash in scoring

mickelboy182 | Nuggets

2 | 9 hours ago

You don’t deserve to be downvoted for this take, it is pretty accurate. Brown has definitely underperformed so far.

PurpleMclaren | Raptors

-8 | 11 hours ago

Brown is doo doo.

TuqiDuque12 | Pistons

168 | 12 hours ago

Just like for the half season when they had semi washed Boogie Cousins, having an offensive big who can actually replicate a bit of what Jokic does on offense and allows them not to completly change their style helps.

Murray especially has never been good with a pure roll guy (tbf Murray actually being in shape may also explains why their second unit has managed to have an identity this year since usually he started the season so bad that they had to constantly change the way they staggered their units)

Sniffy4 | South Sudan

62 | 12 hours ago

Cousins actually had some nice games in the playoffs for them, offensively.

SuperDoubleDecker | Nuggets

33 | 12 hours ago

Boogie had some close 30 point triple doubles with nugs. When he was on it was awesome. Then he was Boogie lol

I was rooting for him. Sucks that he had to be his own worst enemy.

hoodfavhoops | Warriors

5 | 10 hours ago

in the warriors series no one could guard him … but also he couldn’t guard anyone on the other end lolol

Hopsalong | Nuggets

13 | 12 hours ago

tbf Murray actually being in shape may also explains why their second unit

The 2nd unit has been best with Murray and Jokic off, and Cam Johnson being the stagger with Bruce Brown handling the ball.

Pikuturtle1 | Nuggets

5 | 7 hours ago

I think what it should be is both murray and cam like last night in the start of the 4th

Suspicious-Whippet

3 | 9 hours ago

I miss Boogie.

Sniffy4 | South Sudan

71 | 12 hours ago

So much implicit shade on 50-year-old Deandre Jordan

SuperDoubleDecker | Nuggets

37 | 12 hours ago

He always got way more hate than he deserved. He wasn’t a bad backup, but he definitely wasn’t anything like Val.

TheyMadeMeLogin

15 | 8 hours ago

He wasn’t even the backup. He was a pure vibes guy and in that role he was perfect.

SuperDoubleDecker | Nuggets

7 | 8 hours ago

He was the actual backup for most of his tenure. It wasn’t the plan but Saric and Bryant both fizzled out and DJ was there.

I hope that they can get him as a coach when he’s done.

Superbotto | Nuggets

21 | 12 hours ago

DJ was awesome …for like 5 minutes…once a week.

dave__autista

8 | 12 hours ago

he was a glorified cheerleader

22cmSoftInColdWater

1 | 8 hours ago

The blame should be given to their FO for never going after a true backup C. DeAndre was great as a locker room presence, but a corpse on the court

nowhathappenedwas | NBA

57 | 12 hours ago

Much of Denver’s terrible net rating without Jokic has always been their refusal to play the other starters together without Jokic. They also rarely play Gordon without Jokic.

This year’s net rating without Jokic (in games Jokic played):

JV on, Gordon on: +15 in 39 minutes
JV on, Gordon off: -15 in 119 minutes

Legitimate_Cow_4166 | Warriors

49 | 12 hours ago

Jokic and Steph are similar in this way. Both are handcuffed to multiple starters so their on/off splits are always going to be extreme.

TheFestusEzeli | TOR

10 | 11 hours ago

For sure. On/off splits are impacted by so many different factors, with an individual players’ play be only 1 of many factors. Rockets are better with Sengun off the court this year than on for example, but that has to do with many factors outside of his play, he has been really good this year. If I became the backup center for the Raptors, Poeltl would suddenly become the most valuable player in the world according to it.

It still is worthwhile to look at but its one factor of many to evaluate players, people just use it as gospel only to push narratives.

SuperDoubleDecker | Nuggets

14 | 12 hours ago

Moach was really into set rotations. We’re seeing a lot more dynamic lineups now and I think it’s a good thing.

Pretty sure that Joker decides his minute schedule.

badboyguppypoopman

11 | 8 hours ago

This delusional nonsense ad nauseam. Every single lineup without Jokic has been garbage for years.

Their championship year Jamal Murray, KCP, MPJ, Gordon, DJ were -13.0 without Jokic on the court. That’s literally ⁴⁄₅ of their starting lineup.

nowhathappenedwas | NBA

1 | 5 hours ago

Murray, KCP, MPJ, and Gordon played together without Jokic for a total of 96 minutes in 82 games. And only 22 of those minutes came in games Jokic actually played in.

Even if you just look at Gordon and KCP – in the games Jokic played, those two played a grand total of 55 minutes together all season without Jokic on the floor.

As I said, they refuse to play the other starters together without Jokic.

torkahn808 | Nuggets

34 | 12 hours ago

Jonas is still a starter quality big, it’s been great to have him as a backup. Struggling to remember the last quality backup big Denver had. Cousins? Plumlee?

SuperDoubleDecker | Nuggets

21 | 12 hours ago

Cousins when he wasn’t acting a fool was a great 2nd big. Really hoped he would’ve worked out.

Stu__Pidasso | Nuggets

3 | 11 hours ago

Definitely Cousins.

habbadee

30 | 10 hours ago

JV makes every team better when he arrives and worse when he leaves. His $10M salary is a massive bargain by NBA standards

queryquest | Raptors

6 | 9 hours ago

Mad respect for JV , but tbh we were better off with Gasol when it came to the matchup with the sixers in 2019.

Straight_2_Hell

14 | 8 hours ago

Then we went and traded to get Poetl back - we missed Jonas when Gasol retired, and it showed.

Swarthykins | Celtics

27 | 11 hours ago

He always seemed underrated to me.

Fickle_Toe4757

14 | 8 hours ago

He’s one of the best offensive rebounders in the league. he’s just so damn strong. He makes pretty much every guy in the league look small and weak

nak214

21 | 12 hours ago

Anything is an improvement over the 49 minutes a game he was playing last year

DamnImAwesome | Pelicans

13 | 10 hours ago

JV leaving was the catalyst of our teams downfall

Proof-Umpire-7718 | Lakers

11 | 12 hours ago

Jonas is a great backup C.

I wanted him as a backup all for AD all of last season before we traded AD away.

He’s much better than Zeke Nnaji or the corpse of DJ or Saric lol.

vondawgg | Thunder

6 | 11 hours ago

Please remove low leverage minutes while doing these. He has a +7.1 net rating with Jokic off

completelytrustworth | Raptors

7 | 8 hours ago

All I’m hearing is that JV = Joker and therefore should win his first mvp this year.

Lets go my Lithuanian Kratos

Standard_Landscape_6 | Kings

5 | 10 hours ago

Kings got rid of him for a bag of chips

tmcuthbert

4 | 8 hours ago

So all those on/off numbers were always more about the gm than Jokic?

JManKit | Raptors

4 | 7 hours ago

Always nice to see JV being appreciated. I thought Denver picking him up was a really good move and I’m glad to see it’s working out for them

Some-Ear8984

4 | 12 hours ago

He was solid for the Wizards. Seems like all of their decent players move on.

PuttyRiot

3 | 11 hours ago

I will never forgive Kings FO for trading him away. Only had him for half a freaking season before gifting him to the Thunder.

I’m perpetually devastated.

Edit: Happy for him to have gotten away from basketball hell at least, I guess, though questionable if things would be as bad as they are if he was still around.

SmitherPablo

2 | 11 hours ago

And we hardly play him

TacoCommander | Pelicans

2 | 9 hours ago

I am forever sad our silly organization traded him away. I feel like we always get good pieces, put them through hell, and then send them away to go get championships. It sucks.

laz10 | DEN

2 | 3 hours ago

Valaciunas is a force, he feasts on any backup bigs, you don’t even need to run a play, if he gets a post up it’s bbq chicken

He is also setting big screens that get shooters open and plays good defence

quasimodoca

1 | 7 hours ago

The Kings just gave him away for nothing! Another Kangz special.

dsbllr

1 | 4 hours ago

Victory babyyyyyy

SomeSkillStudio

-1 | 11 hours ago

Imagine they didn’t trade Isaiah Hartenstein for JaVale McGee in 2021

Stu__Pidasso | Nuggets

8 | 11 hours ago

Hartenstein in Denver was not the same player he is today. He was a foul machine who had his worst numbers in his career

sorakaisthegoat | Supersonics

1 | 10 hours ago

He was a similar player, Malone is just a trash coach. He also did not foul enough for it to matter, you don’t need Hartenstein to play 30mpg with Jokic on the team.

LubeDaddy | Nuggets

5 | 10 hours ago

As you said he’d have been a bench guy. He either wouldn’t have developed into the player he is todays because of the low minutes or he’d become great and some other team would have snatched him anyway. There’s only so much money you can spend on your roster. He’s currently making 30mil and it,s only going up from here. No team can spend that much on a back up big lmao.

Potential-Handle-410

-3 | 8 hours ago

Look at the net rating when Hartenstein was on the bench for Denver. He is the only player to have a higher net rating than Jokic, and doing that with that bench is crazy.
That’s why he is Top-5 player in LEBRON and so high in the mvp leaderboard while barely touching the ball. Hartenstein literally outperformed Jokic as a nugget and your flawed “eye test” won’t ever change that stat.

Stu__Pidasso | Nuggets

1 | 8 hours ago

Lol

Top-boy-og

-9 | 12 hours ago

The problem is this guy is going to be absolute bbq in the playoffs, especially when SGA sees him on the court lmao

BobbitsC | Nuggets

9 | 11 hours ago

I mean he’s barely going to play in the playoffs. He’ll go in, pick up some points and rebounds and get jokic some rest. The other bench guys are good enough on defense (or at least they hopefully will be by the playoffs) with Watson, Bruce, and Spencer jones

sorendiz | HOU

5 | 11 hours ago

Jokic is probably going to be playing 40-42 minutes a night in later rounds of the playoffs and I really don’t feel like SGA hunting Valanciunas is anywhere near their primary concern lol

faithfuljohn | Raptors

4 | 11 hours ago

The problem is this guy is going to be absolute bbq in the playoffs, especially when SGA sees him on the court lmao

this man right here, has never watched playoff JV. He’s a beast on the boards when the lights go bright. He was always slow, but his offensive production was (and still is) high enough that he more than makes up for it on the defensive end. There are very few players, never mind back up Centre who could defend him effectively in the post. And in the playoffs the minutes get reduced – which means, you can try harder on D, without losing too much on the offensive end.

Razorback_Thunder | Thunder

1 | 9 hours ago

Thunder have played JV in the playoffs and absolutely cooked him. Completely played him off the floor.

Longjumping-Rub-6756

-16 | 12 hours ago

We dont care about Denver

megalo53

8 | 12 hours ago

lol we don’t care about you

Longjumping-Rub-6756

-8 | 12 hours ago

93-125

Luunacyy | Pacers

8 | 11 hours ago

Denver is by far the most fun team from a neutral perspective. I have my favorite teams (like 3-4 I follow the most due my own reasons) but if they are not playing Denver it is just for pure hoops doesn’t matter they win or lose.

Jonas Valanciunas has finally been the backup center that Denver have needed for years. In 261 minutes with him on the floor and Jokic on the bench, the Nuggets have an almost neutral -0.46 net rating. This is a massive improvement from the past when they’d constantly bleed points.