Isn’t that the whole point of the genre? Outscaleing the content. The grind is the game, and the balance is just a polite fiction to make your dopamine feel earned.

Poe1 and 2 is one of the few games where massive numbers comes from grinding or crafting the perfect gear. Togther with a solid build. It feels really rewarding when you get to that point.

In other games, especially D3 and 4, u just need the right setup of gear/uniques and u 1000x your dmg, with nearly no investment. That feels crap and thats why these games have such a short lifespan each season.

Play SSF in poe2. Play Ruthless in poe1.

Don’t look at those showcases

I never understood these posts.

The game doesn’t force you to use meta skills or create omega screen clearing builds. Hell, run around with 0ms buffs, unallocated skill points and act 2 gear in T15 maps if you want a bigger challenge.

Players will always find ways to “engineer the fun” out of any content to farm faster to get an economic advantage but nobody is holding a gun to your head to play that way.

The game gives you options to play the way you want, take advantage of it.

What we need is endgame challenges. Something totally optional but ridiculously difficult. And I bet we’ll get them eventually. Maybe even in 0.4, cause I’ve heard that GGG are focusing endgame issues with next update.

arpgs have ends. i know people dont like to hear this but it cant go on forever. roll up a new character

Well, 70 percent of the player base just copies the meta build every season so yes they do like it. How else are you going to fit 150 magic find and be safe in 1-portal content.

You get demotivated when you watch other people one shot bosses?

I feel the exact opposite, the reason I play ARPGs is to get as strong as possible to get as many slot machine loot rolls as I can get. It’s the reason I have thousands of hours in D2R, still haven’t found that tyrials might.

As long as you play trade people will always play builds that have the best currency/hr, which at this point of the game it all comes down to clear speed and raririty.

Comparison is the thief of all joy. Sounds like you need to play SSF

people misunderstanding poe for over a decade now

I think SSF alleviates some of it. On top of it it eliminates the FOMO that’s built into the league system, lets you play at your own pace and without thinking about the market, prices and all that shit.

I 100% agree with you, once I see hyper-tuned builds and thousands of divines invested in single items I loose interest in the game.

Indeed I feel like I’ve already finished the game, just by doing all pinacle bosses and kulemak once, no need to repeat them.

Maps don’t add new content, it’s repetitive as hell.

I know high-end map farming is part of the game and I respect those that like it, but I prefer to do other things rather than farming hours and days.

So… Maybe try another game? Go for a walk to the park? Enjoy real life :)

I mostly agree, and the issue has even creeped into the campaign where you can delete bosses in 1 or 2 seconds starting from act 1. It’s unfortunate we’ve had absurd power creep so early.

When the power fantasy has too much power I guess?

You probably just don’t like arpgs

Do you use build guides? I only ever make builds in-house, and it’s not boring for me at late end-game. If you use a perfect min-maxed meta build, you’re going to slaughter everything. I’m not saying your complaint is wrong, but just how using an instruction manual is likely to make the game feel like it runs itself. I’m always doing hand calculations and considering optimizations with my build, even into level 90s.

Try clearing t17, 150% rarity random bad mods like monsters have 300% critical etc, difficulty increases with each pit opened, then run it on a natural overrun node with a map boss on it. Have fun beating that…lol

Just go max atlas boss difficulty for those red fragments, citadel and union of souls mod on tier 16 bosses , have fun, 80 % of those busted builds you see on internet get deleted by Ramdoms hits not even the red attacks that one shot, it was proved in a 12 hours stream of a guy called the X farmer. Go check it out , game will be able always unbalanced due to the ARPG power scaling nature

Honestly so glad someone finally said something. These exact thought have been rummaging around my mind the last week and it makes me a bit sad the way things are going..

I basically never played ARPGs due to these issues and POE2 hooked me by being a bit different or atleast it was supposed to.

I hope the devs will keep their vision alive inspite of all the silly jokes but most people sadly just want brain off, easy, screen explosion games these days and that’s what many devs are catering to.

I agree with the sentiment and personally enjoy the journey of getting stronger in poe2, but aprg by design is to chase a power fantasy. So of course eventually if you grind enough you will be strong enough for gameplay to be meaningless and game turns into slot machine dopamine loop. If you want a challenge that’s perpetual then i suggest souls like games, more specifically nightrein

Comparison is the thief of joy

this game is never gonna be the pinnicle of mechanical skill it’s mainly a knowledge based skill curve then a mechanical one

Agree, im stopping this league when i hit 95 in one level. Its just too easy and facerolling

I agree they need to re-balance the bosses going forward, especially the pinnacle bosses. That being said, part of the power fantasy of arpgs (to me) is finally getting that piece of gear or spell that lets you go super saiyan.

100% agree

Brother if after even 100hrs n you can’t 1 shot, w bosses taking forever … what kind of “meaningful” experience is that lol

We all invest so that we can reach the power fantasy n be strong, I don’t really think anyone wants to fight the boss for 5 mins Elden ring style lol

Totally agree with you, man. I hope Poe2 would displease all Poe1 player who wants just to clear the screen and play slot machine with drops. But the direction seems exactly the opposite: less skill based and intended combat and more 1 button builds.

I think playing SSF could mitigate this problem. But I don’t see it as the solution.

I’ll keep playing PoE2 for now, because the game feel is amazing. But I totally dislike the direction the game is going.

I have high hopes for No Rest for the wicked, to demonstrate that you can have itemization and meaningful combat blend together, showing the way GGG seemed intended to go at the launch of EA.

Big issue of poe1, and actually poe2

The problem is that the game has no means to reward someone who is a good player mechanically, compared to a good “meta-build” follower with lots of time to farm currency and become even more powerful.

Both playstyles exist and they should.

What you could go for is SSF and Hardcore… then you have a challenge that cannot be bought with currency and meta builds alone.

Maybe you would like that crazy parry build sometime linked here a few days ago 

I don’t mean any disrespect to you - but the ‘vision’ you are describing was never the vision for PoE2 and it was very clearly communicated.

The ‘vision’ was a different campaign that started out slower and which ultimately lead into the exact same end game as PoE1 - as in they merged.

They eventually separated it but have always when answering questions been clear about the intended progression.

Having said all of that - that’s mainly just mapping and pinnacle bosses.

There are already three different end game activities - the two trials and then the atlas.

And more will be added over time.

But you shouldn’t expect the atlas to fundamentally deviate from ‘screen clearing’. That’s what it is.

And people being able to formulate builds that can one shot bosses - that one I really don’t understand your complaint about.

You don’t have to play that way. You can do the mechanics of fights if you want to. And I don’t understand why a game having a deep system where people can theory craft and potentially craft strong builds would be ‘demotivating’.

It’s a pve game. Why does it bother you to see people play in a way that isn’t what you personally prefer?

I agree with you, I think blowing up maps with screen wide clear and packsize scaling up to crazy amounts with bosses being one shot is meh but I play ssfhc and try not to care what other warriors are capable of. I just do my thing with my slow build and try to use my brain to push the build to the limit. If I see a broken combo like huge herald of ice clear il avoid it because it didn’t come from me lol. 

Agreed entirely with you. The end game is so completely different and not even close to the slower gameplay that the game starts and finishes the acts with.

Your issue my dude is not with poe, is with the arpg genre in general. Thats how they all are, once you have grinded enough, you make the game trivial. D2, grim dawn, poe are clear examples for this. The challenge of the games is just to get to that point, after you reach it and have the satisfaction from it, there is just a few hours of play that will bring joy, because you are enjoying your maxed out character. After that feeling fades away, you understand that there is no challenge anymore and move to another thing. I believe this is one of the reasons on why alternative challenges exist (like hard-core or ssf), so you never reach the point were you feel like you hit the ceiling and you always have something to strive for.

edit: forgot to add that now a days is very easy to go youtube and find endgame builds to follow, dont know if you have tried, but if you create and play your own builds, without external input, just trial and error. The game becomes significantly longer.

I’ve definitely been feeling the slot machine sensation the past few weeks. I’m at the point where I need currency to improve my build and outside of Trials of Chaos I don’t get orbs consistently. I’m at 160% iir with the rarity omen juicing. The other slot machine feeling comes from “Can I make it through the map without getting randomly one shot or stepping in low visibility ground effects? Will I lose my juiced map from a random particle?”

I can’t play enough to get to the point where getting hit isn’t a factor. And at that point you’ve won and just playing for glory runs anyway.

Ssf fixes this tbh, rolled a new ssf character last week and it’s been pretty enjoyable having to work with what I can find or craft instead of buying things. Once I kill all the bosses I’ll probably quit till next patch but it’ll take me way longer here than in trade league where I’m more concerned with div per hour than trying trying to make my character work and even be strong enough for the pinnacle content. I get you tho as there feels a point where poe1 stops being primary monitor content and starts becoming secondary to whatever YouTube video I’m watching since you just face roll the entire screen. 

to reach the point where this game is […] just a bullet-hell equivalent slot machine

No way, bro broke the code, Poe is just a gacha with extra steps, but no inherent P2W + it’s all useless bc best way to profit is just crafting (even bigger slot machine) anyway

Just play SSF and stay off of reddit/youtube and you will feel much better. Also, pick a goofy skill to build around. The game is way harder. You will likely see boss mechanics. It will take a while to explode T15s.

I need to comment this post. Yes. All is saying SSF or HCSSF, that stands, no problem. I, and some of us, dont have that time so much but wanna feel the whole game and feel overpowered. And that what standard league is offering. I’m full time job, 3 kids, wife, etc… but I like to game and wanna to feel endgame “bazooka” like someone say it here. Did I manage do that, yes. Someone did it in 3-4 days, I did it trough months. Do I feel bad about it, no, happy, yes! I played the game the time I had, 2-3 hours every second day. But I loved it. I was doing my own thing best in my state. I had good time. Chill time. How did game helped me with that? That, TRADE they have. (Or auction house but not rly) I was no in crafting, dont have time for it and even now I dont understand it. As I was progressing just sell, sell, sell… and buy what you can to progress more.

Thats all. Hf i gl. Btw anyone know when next season will be on? Any info?

it’s not like you click your heels three times and now suddenly you’re lv100 and equipped in 100s of divines of gear. That takes time, effort, and to do it efficiently, a lot of knowledge.

Imagine you’re playing pokemon. The campaign normally ends around Lv60 or so, but you can keep going to Lv100. just pretend you could keep going to Lv200 with enough investment.

That’s PoE. The gear is extra power beyond just levels.

Grind; Get Gear; Win Game. It’s literally the name of the company.

You can make a build that kills endgame bosses but doesn’t turn to what you described.

I agree but I don’t think it’s necessarily bad to have some content that feels like that. That’s one of the main reasons people play this genre of game

I know harder challenges will come which will help with this a little but personally would love for that to not just be bosses. Like some content that mobs have like 10x life and it feels like early game again in terms of how many hits it takes to kill something

I’d also love if there was a way to turn some of the effects down or something. I love my grenadier but I don’t really anything besides explosions. If mobs survived a touch longer and I could see them even if for a second that’d be dope

If you’re interested in getting that feeling back try out SSF, Hardcore or SSF + Hardcore. I’ve swapped over recently and it’s solved most of the problems you’ve expressed. Only issue right now is since they’re constantly making early access style changes sometimes SSF gets majorly messed with by them (ritual tabs not dropping).

When you get to the point you are done. You have beaten the season try something else next season. What are you looking for unlimited entertainment jusy play somethin else for a while.

After putting +500 hours to get my build, all I want is POWER! MORE POWER! MORE! MORE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKP1I7IocYU

You should really try SSF. Playing trade is equal to play on extremly easy difficulty setting. (which is totally fine if thats what you are looking for)

Part of what bugs me about this discussion as well is that everyone is doing a comparison of a meaningful combat focused playstyle and a hyper-economic one.

WHAT ABOUT ROLEPLAYING??

If youre not picking deadeye because your class fantasy is a ranger, idk why you’re picking deadeye. I want to use all the customization options to make a build that feels like it has an identity. I dont like how every build makes decisions because of mechanic convenience or raw dps. Why am I casting frost bomb and also poison arrow on an infernalist? That kind of thing. Its sick that you can do that, i just wonder. Where are the folks who stick to a playstyle for aesthetic cohesion, like me?

Is an ARPG the goal is progressing and getting stronger. I can’t be stronger and stronger while fighting the same boss for 5 minutes always, at some points, everything will just insta die, is the natural progression. not sure why this affected your experience, if you are starting, you have meaningful combat by having mid gear and not being lvl 96 with skills lvl 30 and 1000 divines of gear

You should try expedition 33 on expert, sounds more like what you want, all ARPG end up in one shotting stuff and the power fantasy because that is the progression. You can give bosses 10x more life and eventually someone will one shot it

I feel this. All of the screen clearing and visual clutter just seems to get worse the further in you get. I also hope they dial things back a bit. It was my impression that PoE 2 was supposed to be more methodical than 1. It’ll be interesting to see how things play out throughout early access.

That kind of power is perfectly fine, but it should take a shit load of investment to get to that point. Most average players should not reach that kind of power and that’s the balance they will hopefully continue to head towards

being fastest is design in pretty much every game based on farming monsters, be it arpg, looter-shooters, mmo’s etc

unlike other games tho in poe its not easy to reach these numbers and speed

[removed]

What’s great about overpowered meta builds is that they are totally optional to play.

I’m in reverse bruh… if not boom boom or one shot don’t recommend it to me Youtubuuuu saannn…

I used to be in the same boat. Really hated the end game but this season everything really clicked for me. I typically play off meta shit. See some tech, adopt it into my own build and keep going from there. Sure, if you watch the PhD-crew it’s extremely stale, but from an off meta perspective it’s extremely rewarding figuring builds out, small gear upgrades, interactions, etc and still clearing all content.

Three ways to solve this, make a new character, make your own build, quit the game. Don’t play something that isn’t fun. I don’t follow any guides anymore, and can still get to that point with a fraction of a fraction of the cost of a meta build.

IMO this kind of build should exist, but only after you have already gone through everything enough time to get the currency to buy/build that up. Right now, some builds are too strong too fast too easily.

You’re exactly right.

The only time I felt that the game actually achieved that vision was in closed beta when trading was limited, and at the very start of the 0.1 season launch.

But even then, broken builds got figured out relatively quick, and endgame bosses ended up being a joke the first time you even saw them.

PoE2 is definitely a PoE 1.5 now, and the vision of hard boss fights and monsters that continue to be hard is long gone

My biggest disappointment is the fact that it’s only gotten easier since. Sure quality of life is one thing, but the fact that bosses straight up have less HP in their final form than they did before is baffling.

The hardest (new unseen) boss should at least take the first player at minimum a week to be able to do, on a really good build. Just like shaper was back when it was first introduced.

I play SSF slowly and not bothering to much about end game. So far is fun and every new better drop feels rewarding.

One thing i dont like about poe2 is that you dont have a ultimate ability, with a big cooldown and really impactfull. In the endgame you just ends spaming a couple of buttons, which i think its boring. D4 has a lot of flaws but i really liked way more the skills in that game, which changed the gameplay a lot. In poe2 the skills seems all kinda generic. Another thing is that i really liked the D4 story first time playing. I know we have still a couple of acts, but im not that invested on poe’s history.

Endgame in general makes me lose interest in the game. The fact that there doesnt feel like any sort of meaningful progression just makes it become boring to me. Most tiers of waystones feel the same since the whole gameplay loop becomes one shot everything or be one shot yourself. I really like the pacing of the combat in the campaign and wish progressing through waystone tiers had combat similar to that.

Sadly this sub and the PoE2 community in general is just rehashed from PoE1, and they came here looking for PoE1 but pretty, so GGG is catering to that. They tried at first but “vision” got meme’d to death. Look for upcoming games like no rest for the wicked if you want a more meaningful game-play and not a spreadsheet simulator that PoE inevitably turns into. Nevertheless, the campaign is still solid for the type of gameplay experience you’re looking for. Which is exactly what the community hates and wants it shortened, so they can zap around quicker pressing a single button. They pay the bills so let then have it.

You shot yourself in the foot by referring to the topend. This happens at the lowend, which is where the problem is. Topend in an economy game is irrelevant, how do you not know that….

If you want meaningful gameplay then just make ethical builds! Like the entire point of making god builds is to invalidate “meaningful” combat by stat nuking enemy mobs. “The game is rewarding this style of gameplay” yeah that’s the genre man lol

Bullet hell slot machine is all I want tbh sorry

I feel the same as you, but for me SSF solved this problem in both games, I can feel progression, challenge, search for items that improve my build (even if it’s 1%) and often, end up with just one ok character, sometimes I reach a level similar to what you described here, but I don’t pursue this type of goal all the time… I just play, have fun, and take advantage of all the mechanics that the game can offer in SSF so that I can progress and overcome the challenges.

Remove the ascension trial bs and the xp loss on death. No point in playing a game that makes it dam near impossible for non meta builds to get ascension.

The best defense right now is, they cant kill me if I kill them first.

the issue is that they made stupid crafting where on day3 you walk with mirror tier items…

You should be careful. It’s a crime to say that you wish the game be balanced better. I’ve been banned several times for suggesting it. The mods will probably disappear you for upsetting people.

Just nod and smile and pretend the game is perfect or you’ll be permanently banned.

Consider this a friendly warning.

My last ban was a 14 day ban for suggesting that off meta builds are often not as efficient and that trading is a good way to offset the inefficiency in currency gain from mapping.