[Fischer] I’m being told from various high-level sources from around the NBA that they do not expect any resolution to this investigation until after the All-Star Game, when the Clippers are set to hold
Law firm gonna bill more hours
Isn’t Ballmer the one paying the bill? I’m sure he’s fine with them taking as much time and as much of his money as they want.
The NBA is the client but per the CBA or league rules, the NBA would be reimbursed by the Clippers. Since Clippers are majority owned (99%) by Ballmer, Ballmer is indirectly paying the vast majority of the legal bills.
Can you link a source for that claim?
Because I’m seeing that the NBA pays out of their own revenue as a part of operating expenses (from a quick online search).
It wouldn’t be in the CBA or public league rules. It’d be in NBA governing documents, which aren’t public.
That said, I would assume it would be the case that the Clippers would have to reimburse the league for an investigation if the investigation finds wrongdoing. I routinely see that type of clause in all sorts of contracts. It’s an extension of a typical clause that says the winning party in litigation pays the legal bills for the losing party. Also like an audit clause, which can also be found in various types of agreements, which says one party can perform an audit of the other party (or their relevant financials) and the other party will have to reimburse the first party if the audit finds out that the financials were wrong.
“It’d be in NBA governing documents, which aren’t public.”
Brennan1 provided the link, so clearly they are available. The wording doesn’t specify that a team being investigated pays for the investigation, but it does refer to “litigation costs”, stating “each Defending Party shall remain liable for its share of all Litigation Costs incurred by the Association 58 Parties in connection with the action (the Defending Party’s share to be determined by dividing the Litigation Costs by the number of Members of the Association)”.
So if that verbiage means the team being investigated is liable for the law firm’s bills, the Clippers apparently would pay the cost divided by 30.
That seems weird, why would the pacers incur costs for the clippers if they are guilty
Not OP but David Samson (former Marlins President) said this specifically on Pablo Torre Finds Out. I think it was the first or second episode on this. He cited the part and everything so I’m inclined to believe him.
Well, anyone can say anything on a podcast, so I’m hoping to see someone post a link or at least the language in the CBA supporting it.
You are right to question it but I think this is found in the league rules and not the CBA. The league rules aren’t public.
David Samson was a former MLB league executive for multiple teams. So either he’s basing it on MLB league rules or he has knowledge that the NBA league rules is structured the same way.
So we need more to confirm this but I wouldn’t be surprised if this was correct.
Brennan1•2h agoCeltics
The CBA is an agreement between the players and the league. It has no bearing on how the league handles an internal issue like this. You want the NBA Constitution and By-Laws.
Look at Article 46, page 56.
There’s the CBA and the By-Laws, both are very much public. The league Rulebook are rules for basketball on the court and are also public.
Why would there be secret rules? Teams would need to follow these at all times, what’s the point of them being secret. Plus the CBA and By Laws are public.
Okay where’s the latest bylaws, do you have a link?
Just because certain rules aren’t public doesn’t mean teams aren’t provided a copy for them to follow the internal rules.
There are clearly bylaws that aren’t public, including for private and not publicly traded corporations.
https://ak-static-int.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2015/12/NBA-Constitution-and-By-Laws.pdf
It’s the first result when you google nba by laws.
Those are not sports leagues, they have no need nor want to have that info public. Sports leagues very much do.
I’ve read the CBA and never noticed it there. So if it’s in undisclosed NBA rules, I don’t see why he’d somehow be privy to the NBA rules.
Because such rules on investigations performed by the league and who ultimately pays for them are likely the same across all the 4 major NA leagues like the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL.
Those leagues are completely independent entities. I see no reason why the rules on investigations and who pays for them would “likely” be the same, since common sense says each league would make their own set of rules.
At this point, in the absence of evidence, people are merely speculating.
From my reading of the CBA it seems like the cost is split between all the teams and the players union. The CBA is certainly a legal document of all time so bare with me. Here’s the CBA if you wanna follow along.
Article XXXII Section 4 covers “Costs Relating to System Arbitration” which includes arbitration related to cap circumvention (cap circumvention is covered under Article XIII of CBA), per Article XXXII Section 1. XXXII Section 4 reads
The compensation of the System Arbitrator and the costs and expenses incurred in connection with any proceeding brought before the System Arbitrator shall be borne equally by the parties to this Agreement; provided, however, that each participant in such proceeding shall bear its own attorneys’ fees and litigation costs.
Parties to this agreement are the 30 NBA teams and the players union. The NBA itself does not exist as a distinct legal entity, so it’s not a separate party CBA. The NBA is the legal partnership of the 30 teams, since the teams are parties they’re already covered there. Amazingly the CBA does not explicitly define who the parties to the agreement are, which is kinda wild for a contract.
The investigation into cap circumvention certainly seems like it would qualify as “costs and expenses incurred in connection with any proceeding”. The Clippers will have to pay their own attorney’s fees to defend themselves at arbitration, but otherwise it looks like everyone who signed the CBA has to payup.
They aren’t in arbitration. And currently the investigation doesn’t have anything to do with the players union so the CBA wouldn’t be used.
All salary cap disputes are covered by arbitration. Look at the sections I’m citing to
There’s no arbitration. In the event of arbitration existing, this is what they’d use. Not every issue, grievance, complaint, finding, or investigation goes to arbitration.
The players union is definitely not splitting costs with the NBA for investigating one of its own owners. You’re taking a management vs management dispute and applying it to a document that details the process for a management vs labor dispute.
It’s literally like pennies to him.
*pesos.
Pesos are worth more than pennies
Depends which peso though, there’s quite a few different ones.
Weird - why would Ballmer be paying for a league investigation into the Clippers having possibly circumvented the salary cap?
No idea but on Pablo Torre’s podcast the former Marlins President (David Samson) said that’s how the NBA is set up. Teams pay the league for any investigations into themselves.
So the Clippers are footing the bill for this entire investigation
a double jeopardy, as Hollinger would’ve framed it.
Hollinger is such a clown for that
its like when you murder someone, but then you also pay for your lawyer, but then you lose? double jeopardy
He’s being billed for it
If I am Ballmer I would want the investigation to end at the end of this year. That gives the NBA the option to void Kawhi’s contract on his last year and with Kawhi who knows if he will even be healthy next year. If his contract was voided in the middle of this year when they have no opportunity to replace him or change the team they would be pretty screwed.
Boardman Lawman gets paid
law firm of bill, billed and billling gonna make bank
The firm KL2 (K)Lawfirm is gonna do great things.
Who else is going to the All-Star game? Let’s get the “Aspiration” chants started. Don’t let the league try and cover this shit up.
Chanting “Aspiration” at the all-star game would be hilarious
It’s syllabically beautiful too.
AS-PIR-A-TION
clap clap clapclapclap
NO-SHOW-CON-TRACT
👏👏👏👏👏
UN-CLE DEN-NIS
One side asking “Where is Leonard?” and the other responds with “No show contract”
this was kawhi’s marketing strategy all along
You’ve got to really emphasise the ‘ass’. Assss-piration clap clap clapclapclap
Sigh, USA sports chanting is so tame and boring compared to intl soccer.
Examples of the whole stadium singing so loud you can hear it on the broadcast:
Your teeth are offsides.
is there a fire drill? Is there a fire drill? - When the opposing fans are leaving early because they’re losing.
What do we think of tottenham, shit. What do we think of shit, Tottenham. Thank you. That’s alright. We hate Tottenham
To the tune of Addams family: “Your sister is your mother, Your father is your brother, You all fuck one another, The Norwich family.”
“Lizzie’s in a box in a box” was a great one
Lol nobody here is going. It’ll all be corporate sponsor shills
Fans better be doing this at all their games and wear tree costumes
Bulls fans chanted ‘fire GarPax’ during the All-star festivities (I think on 1st Take when Zach Lavine was being interviewed) and GarPax got fired at the end of the season
Inside the NBA is totally going to mock the situation by having Ernie’s Neato Stat of the Night sponsored by Aspiration. Shaq is going to be like “You been holding out on us, Ernie.”
Highly doubt it. They can say all these nice things about “we’ll let Inside the NBA stay Inside the NBA” but once ESPN gets their hands on it, it’ll never the same. Also I doubt Shaq/Kenny/Chuck care about this situation. Players don’t care about this story. They want money so they aren’t going to fault Kawhi or the Clippers.
I’ll be there. Let’s do it
ROFL in the stadium with digital noise tracking on a seat-by-seat basis with facial recognition tech. They just gonna kick your dumbass out forever.
Hope fans get the Aspiration chant started lol
Ass-Pir-A-Tion 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
You had me at ass!
KL2. KL2.
This should be a feature at every Clippers game for the season
I could see all the noise monitoring and shit they have in the stadium that was meant to reward loud fans being used to target those who try to start this chant.
Adam Silver has the testicular fortitude of a field mouse.
That’s disrespectful to field mice.
The DA’s gonna have my badge for this.
Actually though. Those fellas are BUSY.
Part of the punishment should be losing the all-star game
This guy gets it
NBC might object though, depending on how much planning they’ve already done for it.
If Staples isn’t already booked that weekend you could move it without changing cities, so there would be minimal impact on the planning.
The NBA cares far more about incentivizing new arena construction than they do about punishing the clippers appropriately. 0% chance they move it to a 25 year old stadium
Since Fiserv Forum opened in Milwaukee in 2018 (with taxpayer money being a large contribution to that construction), the All Star Game has only been in one “new” arena, in last year’s game at the Chase Center. (This coming season with Intuit would be the second game.)
Now, some of those old arenas got renovations before they got the games (looks like Utah with the most expensive one, costing almost as much as a new arena), but they have had no problem putting the game in old arenas (in both big and small markets).
Yeah, I’m at least a little bit salty about that.
Staples just so happens to be open that weekend 👀
Balmer can reimburse for any funds already spent preparing for it, and for any costs associated with relocating it.
part of the punishment should be watching the all star game
So this kinda means the punishment is going to be bad right? They just don’t want to put a cloud on All-Star weekend.
An open investigation hanging over their head wouldn’t put a cloud on all star weekend?
Less so than a hammer being brought down.
The public won’t care. Especially once the season begins
People absolutely care about the drama more than regular season basketball…
On Reddit… during the offseason. The people that spend money. The people that go to games. The people who buy shoes for their kids. I promise you they won’t care 2 months from now. Until the next major update and we get our penalty lol
Perhaps you missed the fact that regular season ratings are trash and the league has been jumping through hoops to try and keep eyeballs on their product.
ESPN will probably ignore it
no darker a cloud than actually staging an all-star game
It’s much better than the alternative of 5 firsts voided, millions of dollars in fines and Kawhi’s contract voided. If the NBA is going to do the death penalty, the cloud is better than the penalty.
It took them 4 months to conclude that Uncle Dennis didn’t do anything they could punish Kawhi for in 2019, so “we have tons of actual documentation to sift through, employee witnesses to interview, etc” will take longer. That’s not even counting the inevitable appeal if a severe punishment is recommended.
Like this is going to be a very long investigation because there is a ton of evidence to look through and cross reference
no lol. This could and likely means they want to wait until the initial outrage is over, then they can do whatever they want again
it means they are waiting for people to forget about it so when nothing happens no one cares
If they just did it now before season it wouldn’t do that
Absolutely would as Ballmer wouldn’t be there to show off the arena.
Bruh no one cares about the owner unless there is drama or they weird. It’s in LA ffs half of the ppl attending would be like “oh the new lakers arena is NICE” and not know the difference
But there is drama, and he is weird.
Instead they’ll put a cloud over the season as a whole. Other teams are pissed and will not let this die.
Kawhi should be suspended until this is resolved.
If they where really about that action they’d lay the hammer down now and just transfer the ASG to the Lakers at Crypto.
It means it’s easier to amplify bad news during the off-season, when there’s not any games going on. It’s easier to sweep this under the rug and hope nobody cares or remembers if they drag this out to the middle of the regular season.
my guess is they want to skip the outrage. They go with a slap on the wrist, multi-million dollar negligence fine type of deal. Plus private concessions behind the scenes to not embarrass Ballmer too much.
Ballmer has leverage as the richest owner and with the rumors of other leagues wanting to challenge for basketball audience pushing him towards one of those is too risky.
What if Kawhi ends up an all-star? lmao
Not necessarily? Although it seems likely there will be a significant punishment. I think its just that investigations like this take a long time
This is suicide. Pablo and other outlets will just keep digging stuff up, and pressure from fans for the NBA to do something about it will just get stronger. The NBA’s reputation and credibility will just continue to erode until this gets resolved.
Put a tape on it and pray it holds. They better hope Pablo isn’t going to deliver haymaker #15
ASW is already a joke, EVERY question all weekend is gonna be about the Clippers and Aspiration lol.
They’re just gonna do what they always do, pretend nothings wrong and give corporate deflect non answers and talk about how wonderful All Star is for the fans
Every clippers home game better have chants about aspiration
People would have to show up first
I think it depends on the fan reaction, if every time the clippers go to a city, fans are mocking or holding signs about this, the NBA will push to wrap up the investigation sooner.
The fans will be all over this. I doubt that’s going to change the timeline.
A tree with Kahwi’s face on it please
Wonder if Kawhi’s back is gonna be acting up all year.
Probably more like “they do not PLAN to have a resolution.”
Fischer isn’t particularly reliable, but this has always been the most obvious thing to do. The NBA will hope it cools down by then, but even if it doesn’t they don’t have to fuck with the logistics and optics of moving the All Star game.
The way he phrased his sourcing (“around the NBA”) makes me think he just spoke with a few GMs or other front office people from other teams, who have no say in or maybe even knowledge of the investigation, and are just sharing their own educated guesses.
Yeah, and for what it’s worth, sharing the speculative timeline of an investigation is probably something most front office sources would be willing to do. Basically just gossip
[deleted]
The league could just take picks farther down the line that they still own
Can anyone familiar with any sort of investigative auditing work like this help explain what the hell can take so long? I’ve worked around auditing for finance and cybersecurity through big 4 firms so somewhat aware, but this kind of timeline sounds absurd when there’s already been so much stuff brought out and available. Do they just start from scratch with their own discovery no matter what? Just seems like so much bullshit
Yes, they start from scratch.
I’m sure you trust Pablo and I don’t know enough about him to think he is untrustworthy, but you cannot start an investigation with “well, this guy made it easy for us”. He may have missed something or misinterpreted something. You have to go through absolutely everything, and that includes a lot of fraudulent activity and a SEC investigation from Aspiration. You have to question any witnesses that are willing to cooperate and assess their credibility as well as any legal obtained evidence that you think is relevant.
As an example- one of Pablo’s witnesses said they were told “oh these are major contracts…and oh btw we also have a marketing deal worth $28m with Kawhi…if I have any questions about it, essentially don’t, because it was to circumvent the salary cap LOL”. This is important for Pablo’s version of events but IMO the LOL kills any validity to this and it’s implied to not be taken seriously. Not to mention that it’s hearsay that they would need to confirm with whoever gave them that info.
On top of all of this, if Pablo is correct that somehow Ballmer convinced Aspiration to funnel his money to pay Kawhi, then this is actual criminal activity. Ballmer is almost certainly Investor 1 in the SEC complaint that I linked above (page 11), which means that he was cooperating with the DOJ on this. It doesn’t seem like something you would do if you were conspiring with someone to commit a felony.
It isn’t just about fact-finding, it’s about 29 billionaire groups deciding on what to do about it. It’s probably not really about fact-finding at all, just what can be presented as an acceptable reality.
And I assume hoping other narratives emerge in-season to take some of the attention away, betting on the limited attention span of the general sports public. As opposed to wrapping this all up during the offseason when there’s nothing else going on
They don’t want to embarrass the guy who built a new arena out of pocket before they get to showcase it. This is just for optics, in addition to what u/Simple_Purple_4600 said.
Overall Ballmer is probably considered by other owners as good for the league. He paid a high price for a semi moribund franchise and made them relevant, supplanted a shithead racist owner, and is a visible & vocal proponent of the league. Unless there are a lot of small market owners that are really pissed (and want a level playing field re: free agents), I doubt the penalty will be too harsh.
If the league doesn’t come out with an exceptionally harsh penalty the salary cap is functionally meaningless. You are delusional if you think the other owners aren’t going to push for an extreme penalty.
That’s saying that the other teams aren’t doing this type of salary cap side deals already though. You think this is the first time? Hardly, this is just the first one that’s been caught.
The big name players have only recently started to embrace playing in small markets. You are completely delusional if you think this levels the playing field in any way shape or form.
I said it levels the playing field? I said these type of deals have been going on forever.
Lmao. Cool.
You’re right but none of us have insight into league politics. If the overall bucket of money is rising, they may not care too much. Fans get all worked up but these franchises are just assets from which owners try to wring the most money. I think some owners will push hard but are there enough?
The finals take place ~2 months after the all star game. It’s not a stretch to say they’ll drag this out until after the season ends, then dump the decision on a Friday night in summer when fewer people are paying attention.
It’s gonna be interesting to see how it all plays out.
Small market owners and even the rich ones want their cut of the extra luxury tax more than they’re worried about punishment. As has been said, signing Kawhi to a contract is punishment enough.. Just take away some picks for show, pay some tax, and move on.
This is a league with official gambling partners.
That’s what I expect, Silver in front of mic talking tough and wagging his finger, but all in it won’t be too serious. They won’t try and take the franchise from him over this, which means they still need to deal with him at meetings etc. I’m sure he’s friends with a few other owners too.
I think he is good for the league and other owners see him that way so they they want him in the club. He actually likes hoops and wants to win. He’s not smart enough to buy championships so why mot let him blow money? He’s making all the other franchises more valuable.
They can absolutely get this done before the start of the season. This isn’t a criminal trial. They can 100% get enough info to make a decision about what to do to the Clippers, Ballmer, and Kawhi.
They have to independently confirm the information. Develop their own sources of information and try to corroborate what Pablo found. Remember this investigation took Pablo seven months so it could take just as long or even longer for the law firm.
It’s important to do it this way so all the evidence can be documented, and the chain of evidence is preserved. If a party decides to sue the league over Adam Silver’s eventual decision on this matter, then they have the receipts to show them what they found and why Silver decided the way he did.
Noooo guys, we’re just making sure we are meticulous, we definitely aren’t letting the fact that the clippers are hosting the all star game dictate the timeline, nooooooo
The NBA isn’t even doing the investigation
Correct but they absolutely can withhold the findings until after all star game.
$$$ reasons lol
A friendly reminder, it took Pablo 7 months to do his investigation. Some of you are pre-mad, it might take this investigation 5?
You think this sub will let the facts get in the way of “THE NBA WANTS TO COVER FOR BALLMER” narratives?
I do not but sometimes I try to inject some logic 😅
Some of you are pre-mad
Because no one is going to care about this in March.
Im sure people in here will muster up some outrage nonetheless.
Yes, and if Pablo hands over that it should be significantly less work for Wachtell.
Even if they did and didnt revet anything he gave them, they would still have all the Clippers due diligence to do.
But the fact is they are going to revet everything and I’m not sure if Pablo would cooperate with their investigation anyway. No clue.
Silver’s really ramping us up for nothing to happen when a solution is right there: revoke the all star game at Intuit and just have it at crypto, or start a new tradition of the last year’s champion team city getting to host.
r/redditsniper
But the fans want some lynching
Silver loves Ballmer’s money too much, so not surprising
The all star game is scheduled for 15 February 2026. There’s NO WAY this goes unanswered for one hundred and fifty days, right?
No way can it take that long. Shit Pablo did more than half the work for them already.
Realistically how much longer will Kawhi even play? Prolonging the punishment seems like it would just help the clippers since this could very well be Kawhi’s last possible season given injuries/health. Unless we are taking draft capital from them , as that would hurt them more since we could reach deeper into the future to take them.
Embarrassing
Just make Balmer sell the team.
Balmer has deep pockets and hasn’t made any racist comments yet. You don’t want someone like Miriam Adelson buying the team.
Miriam Adelson already is the majority owner of the Dallas Mavericks - she acquired it from Mark Cuban - she can’t buy a second franchise.
I do think there is something in the discussion that the other NBA owners don’t like that Balmer is essentially richer than all the other owners combined.
I’m saying someone like her. What if someone like Musk or Peter Theil decides to buy it?
I think the other owners have to vote 🗳️ on new owners and it’s highly unlikely they would allow someone with no previous interest in sports to acquire a team and then you run into the same issue as that top level of wealth squishes all the other billionaire owners which they don’t want. The other owners were forced to create the second apron just so Balmer didn’t spend a fraction of his wealth to buy endless titles
I prefer to ban Ballmer from Clippers games for life
That would be complete bullshit. There’s no way the league can refrain from a competitive ruling before the season begins.
It’s hard to believe you’re serious. There’s zero chance there will be a ruling before the start of the season.
Shocker
What’s the next highest level of competition basketball league in the world? The NBA is obviously rigged. I need something that can at least pretend to be authentic.
https://www.euroleaguebasketball.net/euroleague/
Matches start 30 sept.
Most of the known match fixing is in the lower level national leagues.
Always. Rich people and corporations run everyone’s lives and it’s a joke. Fuck the top 1%
The aspiration files are a conspiracy created by Ice Cube and the big3. The files are on my desk right now. Stop talking about the Aspiration files!
They will hope to sweep it away like 115 Manchester city charges. But I will guarantee yall when a small market teams is exposed for something similar they will be the first to receive a punishment.
Shocking.
The nba is so rigged and choreagraphed. Shout out to those of you still betting on this stuff
Ballmer gonna run for president to avoid serving time.
Loool
Can’t suspend kawhi for he rest of his contract if he plays until it expires!
BIG BRAIN MOVE ADAM SILVER
they’re not doing shit about it
How convenient
Sounds fair, one less thing to strip the clippers of
Ridiculous
NBA don’t want to look bad before all star game … after all star game clippers not a relevant playoff team so it won’t matter at that point
Absolutely taking the “hope it all blows over” approach
Time to shave the head
I’m ootl. What’s going on with Aspiration?