KoupDetat | Greece

4240 | a day ago

You can tell he manages in Greece because he’s thinking of the Milwaukee Bucks

Eli-Oop

545 | a day ago

LOL

KoupDetat | Greece

884 | a day ago

The Bucks are the only playoff team I can think of that if you remove a single player I can genuinely see getting swept by a Euroleague final 4 team.

Not easily, but it is a possibility under FIBA rules.

I’m of course talking about removing Kyle Kuzma.

M-Test24

225 | a day ago

I want to enjoy this post, but I’ve come to the sad realization that the Bucks need Kuzma.

I would appreciate some space during this difficult time.

The_Sign_of_Zeta | MIL

102 | a day ago

They need him as matching salary in any trade during the deadline or next offseason

Baroque_0bama

1 | a day ago

Why would they need him for a matching salary? Giannis already makes more than Andrew Wiggins

ddiop | CLE

90 | a day ago

Bucks in the games with Kuzma and Giannis both playing:

Giannis + Kuz (539 mp) = +2.91

Giannis w/o Kuz (319 mp) = +23.28

Kuz w/o Giannis (299 mp) = -6.37

Kuzma is maybe the worst starter in the league, no NBA team needs him.

Quinnett | Knicks

66 | a day ago

okay but what if instead of being bad, he was good? check mate.

A-Centrifugal-Force

20 | a day ago

Hey he was good with the Lakers until he signed his big contract. Then he was pretty good for the Wizards in his contract year. I’m starting to sense a pattern with him…

anpanman100 | ORL

3 | 11 hours ago

Just keep signing him to one year deals and he will always be good.

NeoLone | Kings

7 | a day ago

better than Tatum alternate universe

Muted-Priority-718

11 | a day ago

this made me laugh out loud. ITS TRUE. a “good” kuzma would mean so much to them.

The_Sign_of_Zeta | MIL

26 | a day ago

To be fair, if you remove Kyle Kuzma, the Bucks still might sweep the Euroleague team without Giannis.

Eli-Oop

26 | a day ago

Hahaha… Without Kuzma… the Bucks don’t stand a chance.

But for real, I’m gonna go ahead and keep on my crusade trying to get Giannis a little recognition for the product he puts on the floor. Giannis is arguably the most irreplaceable and multifaceted star in the NBA. He’s a fast, mobile, agile near-7-footer who handles like a guard, scores like a forward, rebounds like a center, passes like a point, and anchors defense like a rim protector. He fills more roles on both ends than any other play I’ve had the privilege to watch consistently.

So absolutely–his team needs him on the floor to be successful. Covering his workload, they’d need to add another 3 players because Giannis covers multiple roles at a time when he’s on the floor.

Kwumpo

23 | a day ago

Denver without Jokic is a genuinely terrible team by almost every metric. Nuggets without Jokic are worse than Bucks without Giannis.

gerardguey | Bulls

20 | a day ago

I would heavily disagree. They look worse because they play in the west against better comp, they actually won some good games without jokic in the regular season, such as the warriors with Jimmy and all their starters. Plus not to mention some games in the playoffs against the Clippers and OKC where Jokic didnt play so great but they still won the game (especially because of AG)

UBKUBK

3 | a day ago

It might be different for the upcoming season but the last three years indicate Nuggets were worse with Jokic, than Bucks were without Giannis.

Last season Nuggets were 4 - 8 without Jokic and Bucks were 8 - 7 without Giannis.

In the previous year Nuggets were 2 - 1 without Jokic and Bucks were 3 - 4 with Giannis.

And two years previous Nuggets were 5 - 8 without Jokic and Bucks were 11 - 8 without Giannis.

Totals of Nuggets being 11 - 17 without Jokic and Bucks being 22 - 19 without Giannis.

thatstotallyracist | Knicks

12 | a day ago

Maybe Denver? I’m tryna figure out where the line is. Probably the top 4 teams in each conference could lose a star and still thrash a Euroleague team.

doktarr

61 | a day ago

I’m still of the opinion that the best Euroleague team would be the worst team in the NBA. I don’t think they would go winless, but they would struggle to reach 15 wins.

Preseason results don’t mean anything. Just watch what Saric is doing in these European games. He was literally helpless on an NBA floor last season. The difference in athleticism and physicality is enormous.

There’s only a handful of players in the Euroleague in a given season that could be a starter on an NBA team.

(FWIW this is basically the reverse of the comparison between MLS and Champion’s League.)

masterpierround | Grizzlies

52 | a day ago

Fenerbahce won the Euroleague championship last year, their major players were Nigel Hayes-Davis, Wade Baldwin IV, Devon Hall, Tarik Biberovic, Marko Guduric, Bonzie Colson, Nicolo Melli, and Khem Birch. Now if you’re a connoisseur of NBA end-of-bench guys, you may recognize those names, basically all of them are (or at least were) end-of-bench or G-league caliber players in the NBA. The Wizards are projected to be the worst team in the NBA next season, and by my count, they have like 8-9 guys who would be the best player on that Fenebahce team. You’re absolutely right about the quality difference.

tirednsleepyyy

21 | a day ago

Look at the Euroleague MVPs. They’re consistently 30 year old Americans that averaged like 5 points and 11 minutes a game in their two NBA seasons.

doktarr

17 | a day ago

I mean, not consistently Americans, but it’s usually players who have washed out of the NBA. (2018 is the notable exception, of course.)

Only_Mushroom |

4 | a day ago

The last 2 were Americans Mike James and Kendrick Nunn. But the last 16 before that were very consistently not American

For the curious, Vezenkov, Miriotic, Mici, Jan Vesely, Doncic, Sergio Llull, Nando de Colo, Nemanja Bjelica, Sergio Rodriguez are 2014-2023.

REGIS-5 | Celtics

10 | a day ago

Just watch what Saric is doing in these European games.

In Europe individual stats rarely matter, if a player is doing well it just means the team figured out how to utilize him better. Some players can’t adapt to the NBA’s solo grind and some can, that’s all.

Krillin113 | 76ers

8 | a day ago

Let me introduce you to the 2024 Sixers

GlizzyGone21 | Bucks

2 | a day ago

Do the national teams also not get their NBA players?

Redirkulous-41 | Mavericks

2 | a day ago

And the Nuggets

Altierigualtieri

43 | a day ago

Kind of a weird take, considering a lot of those stars make what the entire starting lineup of a euroleague team makes. So if that star wasn’t on the team they’d have much better players everywhere else.

But also, there’s maybe five to ten teams in the league that what he’s saying is true for and most of those are just bad teams.

Bulls Sacramento Jazz Charlotte Nets Denver

KoupDetat | Greece

80 | a day ago

I don’t think he’s taking the macroeconomic side of it into account, it’s a clear hypothetical.

I think the point he’s trying to make here is that Euroleague teams largely don’t rely on star-power (true) and are instead more focused on building a cohesive unit with maybe 1-2 folks who’re a notch above the rest.

There are exceptions of course, for example Zalgiris last year would’ve been up shit creek without a paddle with Lonnie Walker IV, but you largely don’t see rosters that are very top heavy, which is usually the rule in the NBA.

deemerritt | Hornets

46 | a day ago

I think the fact that a team would be up shits creek without Lonnie Walker kind of disproves his entire point lol

KoupDetat | Greece

25 | a day ago

They finished 13th out of 18 teams, Zalgiris last season was proper garbage, in this very hypothetical match-up I would assume a Final 4 team, so Olympiacos, Panathinaikos, Fenerbahce and Monaco

ACTPOCBET | Supersonics

8 | a day ago

Weren’t they really good, until Lonnie came to the club?

mug3n | Raptors

2 | a day ago

Yeah absolutely. Coaches are king on euro teams, no player will ever have power over a coach like in the NBA.

The_Sign_of_Zeta | MIL

4 | a day ago

Hey! I resemble that comment!

alan-penrose

1699 | a day ago

Well the Bulls don’t have a star player to take away. Checkmate Euroleague.

call-me-germ | Bulls

334 | a day ago

they can take our lithuanian king matas out of my cold dead hands.

shadezownage | Bulls

35 | a day ago

I love Matas but isn’t it a bit early?

Or maybe I’m just so tired…

call-me-germ | Bulls

81 | a day ago

we haven’t had a 50 win season in 10 years. every year i just have to have something to look forward to… anything. whether it’s:

“at least we fired Hoidberg”

“This is the year Jimmy takes the leap”

“Lavine is a number one option that Jimmy couldn’t be”

“This Lauri kid is gonna be special”

“woah now we finally have a stretch center!”

“no way we just got derozan too, we finally have a complete big 3”

“Patrick Williams is the next Kawhi”

“Ayo will take us home! he’s from illi!”

“Matas is from Chicago and the future at power forward”

RONPAULSWAGG | WAS

38 | a day ago

10 years? Oh nooooo.

call-me-germ | Bulls

16 | a day ago

hey man that’s basically all of my basketball watching life. i have plenty of time to suffer still.

shadezownage | Bulls

3 | a day ago

there’s some sort of time where mutual losers can band together…

we just have no hope of doing anything, like, ever. similar to the wiz

nachosmind | Bulls

7 | a day ago

“At least we fired Hoiberg”- Hoiberg was never the problem lol

call-me-germ | Bulls

8 | a day ago

the point was that every year you try to find the silver lining in bad things. obviously Patrick Williams was not the next Kawhi either

gofrawgs

3 | a day ago

Says u

replytoallen | Warriors

3 | a day ago

Holy shit, this was a really good break down. I truly hope it gets better for y’all.

gskingley007 | Spain

4 | a day ago

I only watch euro games, can you tell me if Buzelis has been good bad indifferent etc for the Bulls? And will he ever represent Lithuania?

alan-penrose

3 | a day ago

Buzelis has been good. He may represent Lithuania one day if he never makes Team USA but he is an American citizen, was born in the US, and never lived in Lietuva.

calculung | Bulls

2 | a day ago

He has shown potential, which is the only thing we Bulls fans can really get excited about anymore.

legend023 | Pelicans

15 | a day ago

Giddey

Proof-Umpire-7718 | Lakers

29 | a day ago

My Aussie demon

Scorpiyoo | Knicks

20 | a day ago

Far from what I would consider even “borderline star”

MatchAffectionate951

1001 | a day ago

People will clown this but I think he’s just saying the Europeans teams are well rounded

messigoat1337 | Germany

458 | a day ago

Also that the euroleague doesnt have the stars like the nba have and we all know how much impact one top 10 player can make on a team

Dame2Miami | Heat

124 | a day ago

Kendrick Nunn (Better) erasure

Proof-Umpire-7718 | Lakers

24 | a day ago

Lakers legend

Dame2Miami | Heat

28 | a day ago

nah ~~Heat~~ Wizards legend

but he’s actually a dawg and I thought he was the future as a rookie 😭 glad to see him dominating (and getting paid) in euroleague fr

No_Fish265

13 | a day ago

It’s true.. warriors without Steph? Bucks without Giannis? Teams like this are badddd

1manadeal2btw | Nuggets

60 | a day ago

Warriors would still have Butler at least

ncr39 | Pacers

52 | a day ago

They’re bad in the NBA, but all those dudes playing regular minutes would be starters for any EuroLeague team. Kendrick Nunn was the EL MVP last year. Sasha Vezenkov was the MVP in 2023. He parlayed that into 42 games for the Kings, averaging 12 minutes and 5 points per game, then getting dumped and bought out.

w311sh1t | Celtics

23 | a day ago

Yeah, maybe they’re bad when they’re playing against other NBA teams, but that’s not who they’d be playing in that scenario. With all due respect to EuroLeague teams, Carsen Edwards and Kendrick Nunn were the highest scoring players in the EuroLeague last year. Nunn hasn’t been a good NBA player for about 4-5 years, and Edwards was a career benchwarmer.

Even if you take away the best player from every NBA team, the worst team in the league is still significantly more talented and deep than any given EuroLeague team.

dvandenheuvel21 | Suns

14 | a day ago

Bad relative to other NBA teams. If Kuzma is playing Euroleague comp he looks like an all star

Dig_bickclub | Timberwolves

13 | a day ago

Warriors without steph and bucks without giannis has 14 player who would be MVP of the league if they played in Europe. They bad against NBA competition, they would be the MJ bulls in Europe.

PhilMcAnally | Nuggets

3 | a day ago

Yes if u take away 25% of a team’s payroll it will get much worse

Jjohn269

310 | a day ago

And NBA teams are also well rounded.

You have end of the bench NBA level guys becoming key rotation players in the Euroleague. Kendrick Nunn became a superstar over there in his first season and he couldn’t crack the rotation on a garbage Wizards team.

ildadof3

187 | a day ago

This. End bench players in nba are stars overseas. guys that can’t aniff a roster in nba carve out 7-10yr careers there.

p_pio

13 | a day ago

Tbf. difference between end of bench players and part of rotation often is lower than we think with difference being often result of fit not of skill. There are quite a few examples of that e.g. Nesmith jump between benchwarming in Boston and being important part of current Pacers.

ildadof3

5 | a day ago

There’s a few examples of fit. But pretty much every guy in nba is a freak athlete and ridiculously talented. But then then there’s levels. Every guy can get buckets playing 30mpg on a team going 15-67. Only a few guys can get be THE guy on a winning team.

Infinite-Fig4708

5 | a day ago

Other than the stars, NBA players are typically way better than the role they’re forced to play for their team. How many times a season does a star sit and we think it’s going to be a blowout only to have some random role players go off for 25 points. Plus the USA teams are not a good comp, if that’s what he’s going off of because those guys practice for a few weeks before heading off to play against teams that have been playing together for weeks. I think if you take the best player of a Euro League team they’re going to have problems with a G-League team.

pythonbaboonchicken

13 | a day ago

NBA teams play a very heliocentric style typically.

Who gets opportunity in NBA is based on contract status.many times

adaddta | Mavericks

10 | a day ago

Nunn’s playstyle is such that in order to be effective, he has to have the ball - he is not a good roleplayer. To do that in the NBA you have to be like top 10% of NBA players (or at least have the talent to convince your organization that some day you might be). What the coach is saying here is that you could take Giannis or Steph or Jokic and put them a top Euroleague team and that team would still be competitive in the NBA

SquimJim | Celtics

12 | a day ago

Yea, but i feel like that just shows how good the best of the best are and not the quality of the rest of the league. If you were to remove them from the equation entirely and give the NBA teams time to prep/practice with the knowledge they’d be without them, then it’d be very hard for Euroleague teams to win a 7 game series. They could win an exhibition game against anyone, but not a meaningful competition to see who is actually better.

You put the Euroleague Champs against a healthy 11th seeded Raps without Barnes, then the Raps are winning a 7 game series and it’s likely not going past 5 games.

SquimJim | Celtics

84 | a day ago

Do you think that Panathinaikos could beat a healthy Raps team without Barnes? Let’s say that the Raps are given an off-season to gameplan and practice specifically with their roster without Barnes.

I feel like Quickley, Dick, Barrett, Ingram, and Poeltl would destroy Panathinaikos. Raps didn’t even make the play-ins in the East last year.

Proof-Umpire-7718 | Lakers

65 | a day ago

Yeah they would easily win.

The reigning Euroleague MVP is Kendrick Nunn, who wasn’t a rotation player on an awful Wizards team when he was last in the league.

CharacterAbalone7031 | Clippers

20 | a day ago

I think they’d obviously beat them in a 7 game series but I wouldn’t put it past Panathinaikos to steal a game from them.

SquimJim | Celtics

17 | a day ago

Yea, I guess that’s fair. Anything can happen in a single exhibition game.

vladimir_pimpin | Nuggets

75 | a day ago

We’re clowning on it cuz it’s dumb

If he wants to say they’re well rounded say that lol nba bench players become stars in the euroleague

OUEngineer17 | Nuggets

13 | a day ago

He must not have seen Facu or Micic play. While a Euro league team can definitely win a game against an NBA team without their star, a series would still be surprising.

vladimir_pimpin | Nuggets

17 | a day ago

Yes it is less insane than the people that ask if bama could beat the worst nfl team however it’s still pretty crazy. Most nba teams’ worst 5 consistent rotation players are way better than a normal starting 5 in the euroleague, and you see it all the time when nba backups go to Europe and become dominant players there.

MOREPASTRAMIPLEASE | Timberwolves

4 | a day ago

I mean if you took the star player of most euro teams they’d probably lose to a g league team. Here’s essentially what the guy is saying “under completely different circumstances, there may be a different outcome”. Not all that profound when you look at it that way

paddiction | SAS

2 | a day ago

Just a bunch of classy, well rounded players who play the right way

Expert_Habit9520 | Bucks

670 | a day ago

If you’re talking just 1 game, I absolutely could see a Euro league team getting hot and pulling an upset. If we’re talking say a 5-7 game series, I think NBA teams win probably 95% of the time.

land_registrar

234 | a day ago

Yes, it’d be like the USA at the Olympics. They could definitely lose a one off, but I wouldn’t count on them losing a series.

CopperSleeve

80 | a day ago

The USA Olympics team is just a collection of stars referenced in this statement, though. If we had to trot out the Pacers minus Halliburton vs Spain? Not so sure we win that.

One_Consequence3861

95 | a day ago

Who said anything about Spain? The comparison would be something like the pacers with our Hali, vs Real Madrid basketball club or whatever Luka used to play for.

spittafan | POR

38 | a day ago

Also Spain is, like…. Not that good anymore. A far cry from the gasol prime days

PremierPlayback

66 | a day ago

The pacers are probably a bad team, because while Hali is an absolute DAWG, we are a pretty deep team and would likely win just using spicy p as a focal point

Razuid

37 | a day ago

Nembhard would be the best player in Europe by a mile

BrotherSeamus | Thunder

24 | a day ago

*kilometer

HelpOpening4996

6 | a day ago

By 1.6 kms

MoneyMan_Jones | Pelicans

5 | a day ago

*1.609 kilometers

Miyagisans

26 | a day ago

They wouldn’t be playing Spain tho?

deemerritt | Hornets

10 | a day ago

The Pacers would probably beat Team USA if they had Haliburton just because they practice together for more than 2 weeks and are a thoughtfully constructed team.

The legit only reason the European teams do well in international events is continuity.

JaceGhost | Knicks

7 | a day ago

We also have to figure out if these are actually teams or not. Team USA is much different from almost every other country because the players are not the same throughout the years, they essentially get together a month before the games start and begin scrimmaging.

Some of these countries have practiced and played with the same players for months and even years and have a way better understanding and chemistry, something actually akin to a team like, say the Pacers, who plays all year together.

TrainedExplains | Warriors

3 | a day ago

The Pacers practice together year round. They know how to play with each other. There’s a hierarchy as well with most teams. Throwing a bunch of talent at the Olympics where nobody does the role player things necessary to win with rules that all of the international players are used to and NBA players aren’t….its a horrible idea. They only put so many stars on the Olympic team because they want people to watch. If they actually trotted out an NBA team, not that that’s even possible, they’d probably have a much better showing. That hall of fame Olympic squad this year was barely beating teams that were largely filled with guys barely good enough to be bench rotation players in the NBA. That should tell you what team cohesion and smarter basketball is worth. We may not win next Olympics, because lacking enough all time talent to throw at the problem, we will still put a bunch of stars looking for their own shot on the court and start practicing 1 week before exhibition games.

The_Duke_of_Nebraska

5 | a day ago

Team USA? The quote is about an average NBA team without their best player, not a superteam?

Expert_Habit9520 | Bucks

73 | a day ago

I had full season tickets for the Bucks for 2 years between 2017-2019 and saw nearly every team in person during those years. The amount of athleticism and skill even among the worst teams is still pretty incredible.

The best team in another league could probably give the worst NBA team a tough time as typically the worst teams do have a certain amount of dysfunction. That said, that worst NBA team still typically has a few guys with skills so freaky and developed compared to other levels around the world that they still would be very tough to beat in say a 5 game series if healthy and properly motivated.

Zookeeper187

14 | a day ago

You’ve seen the glimpse of it in the olympics with USA-Serbia

nativeindian12 | Trail Blazers

79 | a day ago

Yes but Serbia had 3 time MVP Nikola Jokic, arguably the best player in the NBA. No Euroleague team has an NBA MVP in their prime on it

Proof-Umpire-7718 | Lakers

3 | a day ago

Jokic is definitely the best player in the nba rn.

nativeindian12 | Trail Blazers

27 | a day ago

Yea I agree, I just put arguably because I didn’t want the discussion to focus on that part of the sentence

1shmeckle | Knicks

4 | a day ago

But I think that’s almost the point being made by Ergin Atama. Like, if all it takes to elevate a team is 1-2 star players, then there isn’t as massive of a difference in overall player quality as people like to claim. Not necessarily something I agree with but I don’t think he’s saying anything that weird.

vladimir_pimpin | Nuggets

14 | a day ago

If you take the 3 nba players off that team they get fucking murdered lol

bigE819 | Pacers

5 | a day ago

Real Madrid beat the Spurs in 2014

pythonbaboonchicken

10 | a day ago

NBA schedules complete no hopers in preseason now after catching so many losses

Scorpiyoo | Knicks

2 | a day ago

But they have a Star player and he’s the best in the world

axecalibur | CHI

4 | a day ago

If there was no financial gain for the NBA team they would lose. The starters would rest or throw up 3’s all game. Look what happens during the all-star game. They don’t care if it’s a non-Olympics exhibition.

daydriem | MIN

2 | 19 hours ago

I’d even take it higher than 95%, but the single game is not at all unrealistic and has already happened. In 2014 the then-champion spurs lost to german champion alba Berlin despite all their best players being there and playing significant minutes.

G00DNIGHT-IR3N3

374 | a day ago

If my grandma had wheels, she’d be a bike

Briggity_Brak | Tampa Bay Raptors

26 | a day ago

This is what i came here for. Thank you.

signmeupdude | Lakers

5 | a day ago

I swear to god reddit became obsessed with this quote and immediately lost all ability to make nuanced comparisons.

There’s nothing wrong with what he is saying and he is making a pretty clear point. He thinks euro teams are well rounded and play high quality basketball. Meanwhile, NBA teams are carried heavily by superstars. You can disagree with him, but he’s not making some sort of egregious comparison.

ijustbrushalot | Raptors

246 | a day ago

“Listen, I believe that two years or three years ago, in the pre-season, there were many games between the EuroLeague teams and NBA teams. If I’m not wrong, 70 or 80% of the games, the EuroLeague teams won.”

Obviously. One side is having a glorified scrimmage and is severely limiting play time and effort from starters, while the other has something to prove. He knows this is a ridiculous argument as a coach and still throws it out there.

wcohen | Thunder

193 | a day ago

What’s really funny is that the actual stat is the exact reverse despite all these factors. NBA teams have won roughly 80% of their preseason scrimmages vs. EuroLeague teams.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_versus_EuroLeague_games

ijustbrushalot | Raptors

60 | a day ago

Oh wow. This makes it so much worse.

GokuVerde

79 | a day ago

Yes. This is caused by the European teams being worse at basketball than the NBA teams

Druglessness

12 | a day ago

Obstute analysis good sir! I’m the CEO of ESPN and we’d like to offer you a job!

Low-Apartment-2697

6 | a day ago

LMAOOOOO idk why but this comment has me in tears

Public-Product-1503

5 | a day ago

Yeah thought so

Odd_Status3367

2 | a day ago

I think it was Dallas in Luka’s first preseason that lost to some CBA team exactly once, and that is the only time in my 27 years of basketball fandom that I’ve personally seen or remember a foreign league team beating an NBA team in any capacity whatsoever.

Apply this to the Olympics and the US national team, sure. Get rid of the top 2 and the US probably doesnt have their gold medal guaranteed like most other years. But then I’d probably be observing that the winning team’s roster likely had 3-6 NBA players on their roster doing most of the dirty work.

But I would need a bona fide Actuarial Report with 20+ citations before you could even begin to convince me that the 45th-85th percentile in the Euroleague is better than the same skill range in the NBA. The Euroleague payscale and the NBA Draft demographics would be a lot different if they were.

Edit: Also, this guy’s statment becomes extra bullshit when you realize that the league’s arguable two best players, Giannis and Jokic, were both drafted out of Europe.

You wanna tell me their scrubs are better than NBA scrubs, sure maybe I could take that at face value because of their youth leagues and prioritizing of team play. But if Tobias Harris joined the Euroleague tomorrow I would immediately be making a draftkings account and putting half my life savings on him winning MVP.

Melonballs__ | Suns

192 | a day ago

Didn’t bum ass mike James recently win euro league mvp?

BetweenTheBuzzAndMe | Charlotte Bobcats

120 | a day ago

so did Vasa Micic, who was quite possibly the worst rotation PG in the entire NBA last season

swalsh21 | 76ers

47 | a day ago

Shoutout to Sergio Rodriguez as well, won MVP and was a barely playable PG on the garbage Sixers

so-cal_kid | Lakers

28 | a day ago

There have been so many examples like Micic over the years - veteran star from Europe who comes to the NBA and either disappoints or is just a rotation guy. The talent discrepancy is still quite large.

RogueObj | Hornets

9 | a day ago

Was about to comment this as well. Micic won an MVP in 2021 and is one of the worst NBA players I’ve ever watched. Euroleague is Pretty bad.

Rationalknicksfan

2 | a day ago

I was really high on him shocked how poor he looked at times

BetweenTheBuzzAndMe | Charlotte Bobcats

3 | a day ago

Same, he was actually good when he first got to Charlotte but he got figured out quick

Paranoides | Lakers

24 | a day ago

Yes and pretty much nothing else. He goes crazy on normal games and chokes when it matters. Becomes almost useless once it is the playoofs/final four.

masterpierround | Grizzlies

26 | a day ago

The All-Euroleague teams last season:

1st team: TJ Shorts, Carsen Edwards, Kendrick Nunn (MVP), Sasha Venzekov, Nigel Hayes-Davis.

2nd team: Mike James, Theo Maledon, Evan Fournier, Juancho Hernangomez, Edy Tavares.

Now remember that the best Euroleague teams don’t have more than 2 of those guys. Even if you took the stars out of the NBA, it’s probably still a stomp for the NBA team.

ysizzle

9 | a day ago

Damn. I don’t recognize everyone on that list, but I recognize 6 of those names. If those were the 6 best players on a given Euroleague team, any non-tanking NBA squad would beat the everloving shit out of that team, even without their best player.

OutrageousQuantity12 | Slovenia

145 | a day ago

If you took away one limb from a UFC fighter, a decently trained amateur could beat them

No_Fish265

40 | a day ago

Probably not lol

RazorRamonio | Warriors

3 | a day ago

Tripping

dyfish | Lakers

11 | a day ago

I train MMA think I qualify as decent by amateur standards. One armed UFC fighters absolutely put me to bed. Jon Jones still kicks me in the fucking head even if I can land some punches through his one armed guard.

Now one leg, that’s a different situation.

One_Consequence3861

2 | a day ago

I was about to comment me vs 1 leg Jon jones ? Honestly a toss up and I would need a bit of training if I wanted to win. He could probably still submit me if I made 1 mistake. But tbf the fight would have to be a fighter in my weight class and I’m pretty sure I can dog walk Sean omally if he only has 1 leg

Vegetable_Kale_1331 | SGA

27 | a day ago

If my grandmother had wheels, she’d be a wagon

Nuclearsunburn | Heat

10 | a day ago

Right? This is such an asinine statement

sad_roses

104 | a day ago

This is the same argument as Ohio State vs the Browns. The worst NFL team will beat the best college team 72-0.

The best college team will have 5-10 NFL players. The worst NFL team has 53 NFL players.

The best euroleague team might have a handful of fringe NBA guys who might not even get signed after summer league. The worst NBA team, with their best player excluded, is still made up entirely of NBA players.

cohonan | Suns

37 | a day ago

What makes the NFL Ohio State argument even more ridiculous is the NFL guys are NFL guys with years to put on muscle and skills on top of the NFL talent they had at Ohio State.

timtodd34

104 | a day ago

Some of the worse teams sure. Some of the better ones ehhh

Proof-Umpire-7718 | Lakers

96 | a day ago

2025 Nets without MPJ vs the best Euroleague team would be interesting.

Imaginary_Crab2034

46 | a day ago

If MPJ is shooting like he did in the playoffs, Euro teams are going to feast

Proof-Umpire-7718 | Lakers

16 | a day ago

MPJ shot well in the 2023 playoffs.

He’s struggled in the finals, but was lethal against the Lakers in the WCF.

gurkank5830 | Lakers

20 | a day ago

Lakers dont count. All of Denver players have their best games against Lakers

Proof-Umpire-7718 | Lakers

4 | a day ago

True. Murray scares me whenever he plays against us.

gurkank5830 | Lakers

9 | a day ago

Murray becomes better than MJ when playing with Lakers😀

nufan86 | Pelicans

3 | a day ago

Pels without Zion and Poole taking 90 shots would be a close line.

bauboish | Rockets

3 | a day ago

If you ask every Euroleague team if they would trade their roster for the Nets current roster, disregarding salary differences and all the other issues, they would say yes in less than a second. And that team would be the prohibitive favorite to win any tournaments they enter in Europe in the upcoming season.

Wavepops

11 | a day ago

No, end of the bench guys in the league are stars in euro league.

Cockhero43 | Celtics

81 | a day ago

“If you take away a team’s beat player, they become easier to beat”

This is some top tier IQ shit. If this guy was in charge of Greece’s economy I’d bet they’d be in a much better place

JeanRalfio | LAL

10 | a day ago

Another thing is NBA teams are built around the the team’s best player. Obviously the team will suffer but I still think the NBA team wins over 90% of the time.

swalsh21 | 76ers

62 | a day ago

lol ok sure buddy, I’ve watched Sergio Rodriguez win mvp over there

A_MASSIVE_PERVERT | Mavericks

49 | a day ago

We just be saying anything now

Muted_Dog7317 | Heat

53 | a day ago

Kendrick Nunn couldn’t last in the NBA. He is now the best player on Panathinaikos and in the Euroleague.

I could see certain times a Euroleague team is competitive - playing a tanking team with a bunch of first and second year players, but they’d have zero chance of beating the Nuggets without Jokic or Pistons without Cade which seems to be what he is saying.

sbkg11

43 | a day ago

No Euroleague team is winning 40 games in a full NBA season. Worst NBA team is capable of winning every in every national league in Europe. But if we are talking about a tournament structure, there is no guarantees which I hope is what he means.

TurnoverNegative7 | Warriors

9 | a day ago

I’d go as far to say no Euroleague team is winning more than 15 games lol

[deleted]

32 | a day ago

[deleted]

mr_grission | Knicks

12 | a day ago

They come out of the woodwork anytime someone calls themselves a “world champion” after winning the Finals

thiccboiwyatt | Timberwolves

6 | a day ago

Either that or whenever the nfl is brought up.

Slow-Seaweed-5232

25 | a day ago

Using pre season games as a judge is idiotic nba teams don’t try at all

BigRigHiggy

20 | a day ago

Wrong. They’d still get spanked. Also, those preseason games were the Euros Super Bowl.

SignalBed9998 | Bulls

17 | a day ago

Part of this is he’s being salty about Valenciunus. In my opinion if he’s a reason to get all salty then I call bullshit on them beating the NBA.

GardenRafters | Celtics

12 | a day ago

Yeah, that’s why we started sending pros to the Olympics. They started to be able to beat our b-team youngsters.

DistinctNewspaper791

13 | a day ago

He just wants your attention guys, he wants to be noticed. Like the stupid kid who pulls girls hairs to get their attention in school.

He won it all in Europe and I think he is bored. Wants to try NBA and young enough to come and coach for a while (59).

He might be one of the few European coaches that can adapt to NBA because his biggest strength is roster construction/role division and managing egos of the stars. He is not yell at players to get them going kinda coach

Objective_Ad_1037

2 | a day ago

I’m pretty sure a reporter asked and now it’s becoming a discussion everywhere. Who cares? Does it even matter? It’s 2 different leagues. In theory anything can happen.

libertydabbing | OKC

2 | a day ago

Bro wants to be like Noah Lyles

dizzymidget44 | United States

14 | a day ago

If you take away their best players we have a chance😭😭😭😭😭

velocirappa | Warriors

10 | a day ago

He’s a EuroLeague coach; I don’t blame him for saying this.

But actually go look at what top Euroleague teams’ rosters look like - they’re chalk full of ex G-Leaguers. The Euroleague final last season was headlined by Mike James, Nigel Hayes, Wayne Selden, Alpha Diallo, Daniel Theis, Khem Birch, and Marko Guduric.

There’s a few guys in that group that could make an NBA bench right now and the overall talent level is high enough that they could compete with an NBA level team in a one off fluke - but there’s no NBA roster that doesn’t beat the best Euroleague team 95% of the time even without their best 1-3 players.

RealBigFailure | Raptors

5 | a day ago

“If you remove a good player from a team, that team becomes worse” holy shit this man is a genius who would’ve ever thought of this??

RFFF1996 | Thunder

6 | a day ago

I dont know how they do it, but europeans ability to feel smug and superior at thinghs they are worse at and moral victories is remarkable

Prudent-Air1922 | Pacers

6 | a day ago

This just seems like common sense if you know much about the NBA. Only 12 guys are on each roster. So yeah, a lot of good talent is going to be playing in the next best league. Lots of NBA-level talent. The main difference is this stars.

TaxLawKingGA

5 | a day ago

This statement is proof that drug use is rampant among EuroLeague coaches.

vladimir_pimpin | Nuggets

7 | a day ago

The nuggets current back up center would be the best player in the euroleague lol

Scorpiyoo | Knicks

4 | a day ago

And if I had wheels I’d be a bike.

There’s no reason to compare the two in this way. Comes off kind of salty? “Well we’d be the better league if you took every NBA teams best player got rid of them”

I still think most NBA teams would win.

interested_commenter | Thunder

4 | a day ago

I still think most NBA teams would win

They definitely would. If low-end Euro starters were as good as lower end MBA starters, they would be playing in the NBA where they make several times more money. There are plenty of guys who wash out of the NBA and then go become stars in Europe.

NBA 3rd-5th options are still better than most of the best in Europe.

I-have-bad-username

6 | a day ago

Someone’s still salty he didn’t get Jonas…

Miserable_Archer_769

3 | a day ago

Ok fine but then we dont use Euro rules and im free to see how that plays out lol

GokuVerde

3 | a day ago

If my aunt had wheels she’d be a bike

theyoloGod | Tampa Bay Raptors

3 | a day ago

Idk even if you remove Scottie, I think my trash raptors still have a pretty good chance

dyfish | Lakers

3 | a day ago

I don’t even know if they could consistently beat one of the solid summer league teams.

Half those guys end up playing well over season anyway.

But go off King I respect the confidence.

heezle

3 | a day ago

Dumb take. This is insinuating for the majority of teams in the NBA, their 2-5 starters are worse than the 2-5 in Europe. That’s just false. 7th or 8th man on a team make more than top Euro players; if they were talented enough, they would play in the NBA.

OhEmGeeBasedGod | Cavaliers

3 | a day ago

Not great when your main piece of evidence is EuroLeague teams winning preseason exhibition games against NBA taxi squads.

Also, are we removing the best player from the EuroLeague teams in this ridiculous hypothetical, or are we making it extra ridiculous by only taking players away from one of the teams.

Intrepid_Walk_5150

3 | a day ago

Agreed. With 5 against 4, they might have a chance.

SporTEmINd | Bulls

3 | a day ago

Nigel Hayes was the MVP of this year’s Euroleague Final Four. He just signed a minimum contract to play with the Suns

Panathinaikos’s best player last year was Kendrick Nunn. All but two of their rotation players are fringe/former NBA guys (Juancho Hernangomez, Jerian Grant, Omer Yurtseven, Cedi Osman, Wenyen Gabriel, Lorenzo Brown).

steveeeeeeee | San Diego Clippers

3 | a day ago

Thank you Atama, if my grandma had wheels she would be a bicycle

_Gibby__ | Celtics

3 | a day ago

They’d be competitive against the Celtics… the Maine Celtics that is

OglioVagilio

3 | a day ago

This guy is crazy wrong.

Since the late 70s, when they started inter league play, the NBA has a 75-17 record against Euroleague teams.

And this is during pre season. When NBA teams are not trying at all or playing their stars more than scant minutes. So, no, chances are they won’t win a real game, stars or not.

Also 2 or 3 years ago there weren’t many games like he thinks. In the 2020s there was one game. Coincidentally, the Euro won.

Cacklemoore | OKC Hornets

3 | a day ago

Lol get rid of the talent and we have a good chance OKAY buddy what a hot take

Izrezar | Lakers

3 | a day ago

The best euroleague team would not beat the worst NBA team

burns_before_reading | Knicks

3 | a day ago

If I had wheels I’d be a bicycle

Disastrous_Damage_34

2 | a day ago

Weird flex, but ok.

katsikisj94

2 | a day ago

I mean sure in preseason yeah, but I doubt they could beat a playoff team. The Magic without Banchero or the pistons without Cade would still be overwhelm euroleague teams defensively and outplay them in the fast break. European basketball is more half court, you can easily exploit them with athleticism

SwampFlowers | Bulls

2 | a day ago

If my grandmother had wheels she’d be a bicycle.

KpYugai

2 | a day ago

LMAO

this the type of delusion I can only attain during a manic episode

CaicedoBrickWall

2 | a day ago

If you took 4 inches off everyone else’s weiner I’d have a normal sized weiner

Floundur

2 | a day ago

If my grandma had wheels, she woulda be a bike

mr_sl33p

2 | a day ago

Sasha Vezenkov was reigning EuroLeague MVP when he played for the Kings years ago and sucked. Couldn’t get open. Couldn’t hit wide open shots. Eventually played hot potato with every ball passed to him as his confidence was at an all time low. Goes back to Europe and becomes playoff MVP.

noyram08 | Lakers

2 | a day ago

I doubt it, I know a lot of fans thinks so but talent-wise NBA is just a lot better. Lot of Euroleague players looks good because they’re in a system that benefits them and the competition isn’t as good.

FlickerOfBean | Thunder

2 | a day ago

If my aunt had balls, she’d be my uncle.

degenwithnofriends

2 | 21 hours ago

Holy moly, turns out Euro league has the same outdated perception as NBA fans. We just had finals with 2 well rounded teams that had the whole team contribute to wins. While you could argue Shai is a super star, the people he spoke of either didn’t make the playoffs or lost early.

Phillie2685 | Bulls

2 | 19 hours ago

This is a case of “it’s their Super Bowl but it’s a Tuesday for me.”

If these teams played with all conditions equal, the nba teams would still smoke most those teams without their number one player. Now, I’m sure the best euro could beat the worst nba teams, but even that would be challenging.

Panathinaikos head coach Ergin Atama: “If you took out one star player from these NBA teams, I believe that many EuroLeague teams can beat the NBA teams.”