andoCalrissiano

42 | 3 days ago

the Demar Derozan Zach Lavine Jordan Clarkson Monte Ellis archetype has so little value around the league now. Collin Sexton has amazing shooting efficiency numbers and zero trade value. we need to cross our fingers and hope a dumb team like the Wizards, Pelicans, Kings can be swayed.

For me I don’t quite get it, someone needs to help bend the defense and get advantages but I guess the numbers show that the negative defensive impact hurts too much.

antoin3walk3r

21 | 3 days ago

For me I don’t quite get it, someone needs to help bend the defense and get advantages but I guess the numbers show that the negative defensive impact hurts too much.

Simons value will have to come from elite elite shooting. He’s not a great passer, he’s not great at getting to the rim, he’s not great at finishing, he’s horrible at defense both on and off ball.

He doesn’t really bend defenses and create advantages outside of outside shooting. The number of guys that can give you 20 ppg on middling efficiency is quite large. If that’s all you can do is it hard to see why there’s not much value there?

andoCalrissiano

5 | 3 days ago

ah, I thought he had more on-ball pick and roll creation from watching his highlights, like an Immanual Quickly. This makes him sound more like an Aaron Nesmith without the D.

King_Of_Pants | Sam Howitzer!

11 | 3 days ago

Nah he does work on-ball.

He’s one of the most double-teamed players in the PnR, he’s up there in PnR volume too, and he averages about as many APG as Derrick White.

Analytics-wise he’s hard to gauge because he’s very Tatum-like but he’s also very Poole/Herro-like.

It can be hard to tell if he’s held back by a bad team, or if he’s part of the reason they’re bad.

SquimJim

8 | 3 days ago

Simons is pretty darn good in the PnR, in his defense

tacko2020

4 | 3 days ago

Yeah he’s just very streaky. He had games of like 40 points but also games where he shot 4-21 and played his usual zero defense

antoin3walk3r

1 | 2 days ago

Yeah I mean he did this a lot in Portland. I just dont think he’s ever gonna be good enough at it to justify having him do it a lot on a team good enough to win a championship.

andoCalrissiano

1 | 2 days ago

yeah how can you be without the ball.

can you do Derrick White things like set good screens, make intelligent cuts, pass the ball to the next person when the defense is in rotation, run a fast break, and do it not 95% of the time but 99% of the time.

PebblyJackGlasscock | Second Round Pick Enthusiast

2 | 3 days ago

negative defensive impact

It’s a “you have to see it to believe it” thing.

Like, HOW does someone with the physical attributes and capable rim protectors behind him consistently put up defensive stats that are so, so, so bad?

He’s the worst defender in the NBA and it’s almost entirely about his absolute disdain for effort. He spends defensive possessions thinking about his last, or next, shot. He puts no thought or effort into defense.

He is worse than a traffic cone.

But, don’t trust the stats that prove all of that. Just wait and watch him play. It won’t take long.

TheJaylenBrownNote

3 | 3 days ago

He’s not the worst. He’s just terrible. Trae is probably the worst of guys who get real minutes and Dame is also at the bottom of that list.

PebblyJackGlasscock | Second Round Pick Enthusiast

-1 | 3 days ago

Trae has a worse reputation and better defensive stats?

They’re both horrible.

Dame and Simons played together, a lot, before Dame was traded. Those are some BAD defensive numbers.

The thought of Simons and Peyton Pritchard plying together has given me several nightmares this summer.

TheJaylenBrownNote

2 | 3 days ago

I don’t know what “numbers” you’re talking about but Trae is consistently the worst defender in the league that actually plays by D-EPM and Dame is up there. Simons is a tier or two above them. He’s just normal very bad.

raycyca82

2 | 3 days ago

Perhaps it’s optimism, but I expect different from him with the Celts. He’ll be playing for a contract and knows if he can’t hold his own defensively, Mazulla isn’t consistently putting him on the floor. He’ll kill his value and that’s not the pressure with the trailblazers. They had very few if any meaningful games over the last decade.
There’s plenty of Jamal Crawford types out there and this season could cost him tens of millions of dollars.

PebblyJackGlasscock | Second Round Pick Enthusiast

2 | 3 days ago

Jamal Crawford

This remains a valuable player type. But the 2nd apron has (seemingly) kneecapped their earning potential.

Cam Thomas, a comparable type of player, is stuck in RFA with no bidders and an MLE-ish offer from the Nets.

Colin Sexton, a comparable type of player, was traded with an SRP for Jusuf Nurkic. (Salary was a wash, both expiring.)

different…Celtics

Yeah, we all want to believe in the power of the leprechaun and tradition and banners.

The Celtics will have infinitely worse rim protectors than the Blazers. Simons’s defensive stats were earned while Rob Williams (when healthy) and Donovan Clingan and DeAndre Ayton were behind him.

meaningful games

Tatum is out of the boot but…the Celtics will probably not play any meaningful games this season.

The 25-26 Celtics are a Jaylen Brown injury from being (far) less talented than the 24-25 Blazers.

It’s possible that Simons understands the market for his player type is crashing, that the Blazers ate 100m of a 35-year old in decline to trade him, and that if he doesn’t buy-in and hustle and try defensively he will cost himself tens of millions.

I don’t think it’s likely. He is who he is: a Jamal Crawford type.

Drummallumin |

2 | 3 days ago

Demar does not belong in that group

One-Suspect5105 | THE TRUTH

3 | 3 days ago

Yeah he’s bigger and isn’t efficient.

andoCalrissiano

1 | 3 days ago

two guard, creates off the dribble, but I guess he’s taller and doesn’t shoot threes

One-Suspect5105 | THE TRUTH

-2 | 3 days ago

Simons is basically a 6-2 Jaylen brown with less athleticism.

Every one of his faults (low BBiq, tunnel vision, bad advanced numbers) without the pros (premium position).

andoCalrissiano

1 | 3 days ago

better dribbling I hope

One-Suspect5105 | THE TRUTH

-1 | 3 days ago

Jaylen’s handles aren’t the problem.

It’s more that the strategy of diving into 3 guys and chucking up a prayer instead of passing to the open guy doesn’t work against good defenders that you can’t bully.

MembershipSingle7137

25 | 3 days ago

No matter how you look at it seems like same thing: we are asking around if anyone would like to trade for him but his value isn’t that high due to his contract and being an extremely 1 dimensional guard.

Your__Pal

14 | 3 days ago

The teams reportedly interested… Bucks, Nuggets, Sixers.

If you look at salaries that probably means Kuzma, Valancunias/Nnaji or a complex Paul George trade.

I think its clear why the Celtics have stood pat.

Several_Oil_7099

24 | 3 days ago

Them: how you replace Tatum?

The Bucks:

https://preview.redd.it/dcweytnpollf1.jpeg?width=851&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9b09307d56ceafd9b01bbfff315f8a5458114cb

Impossible-Shine4660

1 | 3 days ago

All you really can do with him is salary dump for a second round pick to a team with cap space which is what we are sleepwalking toward.

MembershipSingle7137

7 | 3 days ago

Makes more sense to keep him in that case. Unless I really like an offer, I wouldn’t mind keeping him.

PersonalityKlutzy588

1 | 3 days ago

He’s a free agent next year so we’d have to give him a contract and something tells me having 90% of the cap to be tied into 5 players on the team isn’t a good strategy for winning especially when the best player is coming off a Achilles injury. It’s best to just trade him for a 2nd pick and move on already

Impossible-Shine4660

0 | 3 days ago

I agree! I wouldn’t mind keeping him either but they could have just kept porzingis in that case as their contracts end at the same time.

Simons contract means we are going to trade him for a nebulous future second round pick.

The team will be immeasurably worse to save money and they’ll use tatums injury to shield them

Old_Willow4766

4 | 3 days ago

I can’t believe a successful franchise is gauging the trade value of a player they just acquired who is a pending UFA. Crazy stuff.

utopianian | Derrick White

3 | 3 days ago

Maybe interest will go up by the trade deadline. Hopefully he does well so that we can get a good return for him.

RVALover4Life

2 | 3 days ago

There is an argument to keeping Simons around, seeing if he hits in Boston, and resigning him in the offseason to like a ³⁄₄₈-52 kinda deal or something. He can still really score the basketball and does so in a variety of ways along with the excellent shotmaking talent. There’s value in a guy like that.

SquimJim

4 | 3 days ago

The primary issue with this is that you lose your ability to build the front-court. Let’s say Simons only costs us 16mil next year, that puts you about 13mil below the 1st apron with 2 roster spots left to fill. Let’s take about 2mil off that 13mil for a min contract

Now, try to build a championship contending center rotation with that 11mil.

I have a feeling that Simons AND Hauser will eventually be gone in order to build out our front-court. We have to remember that with Brad in charge, we’ve always had 2 starter level centers in our rotation. Hopefully, one of Queta/Garza/Williams can fulfill one of those rotation spots long-term, which does give you more room to keep one of Simons/Hauser long-term.

RVALover4Life

1 | 3 days ago

Good point…the apron era does change everything and make teams have to be extremely particular about how they spend their dollars.

I can still see an argument that signing him to trade him later on a deal that’s fair for both sides might be a wise move. The FA market isn’t necessarily gonna be where the C’s find their next starting center.

SquimJim

2 | 3 days ago

Yea, and 16mil for Simons is completely fair for what he brings, but it just may not make sense for us, a team that has a shit ton of money in our wings and no starting center.

There could be value in keeping him and trading him, but I think we are seeing his trade value right now, and it’s not pretty. It’s not just him, it’s his player type that nobody seems to want.

RVALover4Life

1 | 3 days ago

Not wrong about that but could see that changing if he’s secured on a longer term at a more reasonable price. However, I definitely have seen the light lol maybe the C’s circle back to him but letting him expire if he’s unable to be moved in-season is probably the right play. Give yourself the most flexibility and space going into ‘26 offseason and take things from there.

SquimJim

4 | 3 days ago

I think it’s fair to think with a cheaper long-term contract, that Simons would have higher trade value. However, here are some data points we do have that can speak to what we might expect:

Trailblazers have been trying for years to trade a younger Simons putting up the same numbers, but only found us, (a team dumping talent and money), to trade for him
Collin Sexton, the player I’d probably most compare Simons to, was on much a cheaper contract, but was traded for basically nothing
Simons current trade value, is non-existent
Most players of a similar archetype have not been valued on the trade market

I think these things taken together give me pause in believing his value would substantially change if he was making ³⁄₄₈ instead

Jannopan | Boston Celtics

1 | 3 days ago

We lost the ability to build our depth without over-spending when we decided two of our players would take up over 70% of the cap.

Maybewearedreaming | Abby

1 | 3 days ago

3 48 for Simmons would be a disaster

Jannopan | Boston Celtics

1 | 3 days ago

There are worse players making more than that.

Maybewearedreaming | Abby

1 | 3 days ago

Really not a good argument though he’s a terrible defender, one of those teams paying worse players more can pay him too

Jannopan | Boston Celtics

2 | 2 days ago

$16M is still cheap for a 20+ PPG scorer, especially with the rising salaries. If we could get him that cheap, I might actually be able to stomach the terrible defense.

Maybewearedreaming | Abby

1 | 2 days ago

Not sure I understand how paying 16m for a terrible defender is good at all

If you pay him 16m you have to play him and if we play him we aren’t a competitive team because we are giving other teams easy buckets

Jannopan | Boston Celtics

2 | 2 days ago

I’m sorry to break this to you, but the days of having a starting 5 of positive two-way players are gone. It was a luxury; a lot of good teams still have a seal.

Maybewearedreaming | Abby

1 | 2 days ago

There’s absolutely room to get at least decent defenders to fill gaps, not literally one of the worst defenders in the nba

Drummallumin |

1 | 3 days ago

It’d have to be him or PP and I don’t know why you’d choose the guy who costs more, is worse defensively, and hasn’t been a core guy on the team.

Aregisteredusername

1 | 3 days ago

I hope he can show himself to be more than a one dimensional scorer while he’s in the Boston system and being coached by Joe. I think Simons could do more, it Portland relies so heavily on Dame and that play style that it was what he learned to do there

ahighkid | Smarf

1 | 2 days ago

I have no interest in the loser ever going anywhere near our team. He is so so so so so bad on defense, and overall seems like an air head

Snxggiee

0 | 3 days ago

Still don’t get the infatuation with trading him. He would be a great addition when the team is healthy. Unless they are getting another good role player in return then they shouldn’t trade him.

PersonalityKlutzy588

5 | 3 days ago

Because the team is wisely trying to tank

hpantazo

1 | 3 days ago

Because he would want a large contract this summer and that would kill our cap and our ability to acquire more useful players. Rather than looking for a good role player, I believe they are looking for salary cap relief and draft assets.

MPG54

1 | 2 days ago

Everybody wants a large contract but if nobody is offer him one he will take what he can get.

Angreek

-1 | 3 days ago

This reporting is so bad… unless we are getting a first, makes no sense to trade him. And we are def not getting a first for him. Maybe if he shows out first few months of season and turns heads; THATS the only possibility of trading.

Otherwise, that’s the whole point of getting him on expiring.. he’ll sign for cheaper now that his value has been verified as lessened. Young, same timeline, fills a role…

With that said, if you can receive the right value I’d def do it. I’m not a giddy fan at all but I actually like that trade…

tacko2020

1 | 3 days ago

He’s not a Brad guy at all, he plays absolutely zero defense. And I think they’d rather flip him for cheaper contracts and hopefully a second or two. They clearly want to get under the tax this year

Drummallumin |

1 | 3 days ago

I think it’s naive to just assume that cuz we traded for a guy the plans for him to be around long term.

It was a financial trade and we’ll make another financial trade if it arises. If they could send him away for an expiring contract that’s $10M less they’d send out draft compensation to do that… doesn’t matter who’d be coming back.

SquimJim

-1 | 3 days ago

I’m looking at other bigs on expiring contracts that could potentially be trade partners to also get us under the tax:

Nurkic on the Jazz
Vucevic on the Bulls
Collins on the Bulls
Olynyk on the Spurs

Some of these guys could be back-ups and some of them could be 3rd stringers taking Kornet’s spot

My pipe dreams are Jarrett Allen or Ivaca Zubac.

Drummallumin |

4 | 3 days ago

Simons for Zu would require giving up like 4 firsts lol

SquimJim

0 | 3 days ago

worth

hpantazo

2 | 3 days ago

Vucevic would certainly help this season, still get us under the tax and is also an expiring contract.

[Siegel] Since acquiring Simons, Boston has continued to put out feelers to teams that have shown past interest in the young guard to get a sense of what his market currently looks like and could shape up to be before the trade deadline in February, sources said.